An important update from Sherrings regarding the remittance of funds during a year when the tax payer not tax resident and their subsequent taxation.

 

On 23 January 2024, the RD was asked and answered as follows, paraphrased:

 

Q: If I'm not resident in Thailand for a year and I earned foreign sourced income in that year, is it taxed when I bring it into Thailand?

A: It is not taxed because you were not resident in Thailand in the year it was earned.

 

Q: What types of foreign source income is assessable income and subject to PIT under Section 41, Para 2 law?

A: ....those prescribed in Section 40 (1 to 8 ) but not including income that is exempt or on which tax does not have to be paid under the Revenue code.

 

Q; a lengthy question about tax paid on income overseas.

A; There is no double taxation in Thailand, tax paid overseas can be credited against tax payable.

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

6 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Is this thread related to only UK residents in Thailand? Sometimes I'm wondering.

I think it's because our tax treaty is about 42 years old and has an absence of specific words, in the pensions area (except for Government pensions),🤨. Reading the UK revenue end information and community posts are sometimes like walking into a library with no bookshelves, though the librarian perhaps knows where most were most of the books are.😐

Hopefully the associated general procedure and tax detail 🧐 discussed (where known)  is pretty universally useful, I don't mean to be hogging the lane 🤔

1 minute ago, UKresonant said:

I think it's because our tax treaty is about 42 years old and has an absence of specific words, in the pensions area (except for Government pensions),🤨. Reading the UK revenue end information and community posts are sometimes like walking into a library with no bookshelves, though the librarian perhaps knows where most were most of the books are.😐

Hopefully the associated general procedure and tax detail 🧐 discussed (where known)  is pretty universally useful, I don't mean to be hogging the lane 🤔

You're not hogging anything, you're doing a tremendous job that is benefiting everyone.

 

The end to end PIT process is generic to everyone, it's only the DTA's where there is a difference. It has been said at the outset and many times since that anyone and everyone can participate and do research into this subject and post their findings here. The fact that you and and couple of other people have done so is a credit to all of you. The fact that others have not and are merely waiting for somebody else to do it for them is the reason why the thread is heavily weighted towards one nationality. 

I think the latest news from Sherrings answers many important questions and should cut down substantially on the red herrings and distraction postings:

 

1) there will not be any double taxation

 

2) Foreign sourced assessible income is defined in the the tax code

 

3) Where tax has been paid on pensions overseas, they will not be subject to re-tax here.

 

4) Income earned during periods of non-tax residency, is not assessible here when it is remitted.

 

5) Capital gains is calculated in the traditional accounting manner and where tax has been paid overseas, non will be due here.

 

6) Only interest is assessable here, capital is not, where tax has been paid on that interest, non is due here.

 

These things looks like a win to me. 

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

 

 

 

5 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

A very valid and interesting point.

 

I might own a residence in Thailand, but I am allowed to stay here in 12 month blocks. Whoch technically, could be revoked at any time.

Thanks.  But technically you are only allowed to stay in 90 days blocks.  If you do not 'report' after 90 days (allowances either side), your 'permission to stay' in Thailand is not valid - and if Thai Immigration decided, the whole 12 months period could be revoked and you could be deported - but they are usualy very understanding and prefer that you just pay a fine (which goes into the team pool).  The point being you have no legal right to stay 12 months - you must report every 90 days in order to get another 90 days - and then after 12 months you must apply to get another 12 months extension - which is broken down into 4 x 90 days permission to stay.  We are all very far from being a Resident in Thailand.

 

In anser to anyone thinking that we are tax residents because Thailand states that anyone staying in Thailand 180 days is a tax resident is irrelevent - especially under a DTA.  In Cyprus it is 2 months to be a tax resident - good luck with that I say. 

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

The point being you have no legal right to stay 12 months - you must report every 90 days in order to get another 90 days - and then after 12 months you must apply to get another 12 months extension

 

The 90 day report is to confirm that you are still in Thailand and living at the same address.

 

The 12 month extension allows you to stay in Thailand for 12 months providing you. do not do something stupid to get kicked out.

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

1) there will not be any double taxation

 

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

3) Where tax has been paid on pensions overseas, they will not be subject to re-tax here.

 

Something I have been saying since October.

 

Probably why Pak Chong RD told me " No need to file anything " a week ago.

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

3) Where tax has been paid on pensions overseas, they will not be subject to re-tax here.

Where does it say this in the Sherrings note, please?  If the respective double taxation agreement does not prohibit Thailand from taxing the overseas pension, then the only thing which can be done is to credit any foreign taxes to any Thai taxes due, but if the Thai taxes are higher, then an additional payment is due.

1 minute ago, K2938 said:

Where does it say this in the Sherrings note, please?  If the respective double taxation agreement does not prohibit Thailand from taxing the overseas pension, then the only thing which can be done is to credit any foreign taxes to any Thai taxes due, but if the Thai taxes are higher, then an additional payment is due.

True. But Sherrings reports that there will be no double taxation. And since Thai tax tables are much lower than those in other countries, it seems unlikely that a majority of people will end up paying higher rates of tax here than they would in their home country. 

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

On 23 January 2024, the RD was asked and answered as follows, paraphrased:

 

Q: If I'm not resident in Thailand for a year and I earned foreign sourced income in that year, is it taxed when I bring it into Thailand?

A: It is not taxed because you were not resident in Thailand in the year it was earned.

 

Q: What types of foreign source income is assessable income and subject to PIT under Section 41, Para 2 law?

A: ....those prescribed in Section 40 (1 to 8 ) but not including income that is exempt or on which tax does not have to be paid under the Revenue code.

 

Q; a lengthy question about tax paid on income overseas.

A; There is no double taxation in Thailand, tax paid overseas can be credited against tax payable.

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

 

Thank you for posting the Sherrings note which is very useful. In there the following is also quoted from the Q&A from the Thai Revenue department:

 

"Question: If, yearly, I invest abroad and I bring part of it back into Thailand, is the part I bring back into Thailand determined as investment capital or as assessable income?

Answer: For monies that are brought into Thailand, taxpayers have a duty to self- determine based on facts and evidence that the monies brought into Thailand are capital or assessable income."

 

Does anybody have any idea what this means in practice?  The answer is really not answering the question as they do not say what methods are supposed to be used for the separation of funds.

12 minutes ago, K2938 said:

 

Thank you for posting the Sherrings note which is very useful. In there the following is also quoted from the Q&A from the Thai Revenue department:

 

"Question: If, yearly, I invest abroad and I bring part of it back into Thailand, is the part I bring back into Thailand determined as investment capital or as assessable income?

Answer: For monies that are brought into Thailand, taxpayers have a duty to self- determine based on facts and evidence that the monies brought into Thailand are capital or assessable income."

 

Does anybody have any idea what this means in practice?  The answer is really not answering the question as they do not say what methods are supposed to be used for the separation of funds.

I don't know but I would strongly guess that the amount initially repatriated is relative to the initial outbound investment and that the amount repatriated is the investment capital and the remainder is assessable income, when it also is repatriated. Again, pure guess here.

15 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I hear you about the 'moral rights' issue - that is not a legal matter.  But you overlook or are not aware of one factor - the part in all DTAs about primary residence. Most Expats do not have 'residence' in Thailand - sure they are 'tax residents' but they do not have 'residence'.  I did not quote the DTA, or provide many many others, because the post would have been even longer than it was already - but check this out:-

 

2.         A person is not a resident of a Contracting State for the purposes of this Agreement if the person is liable to tax in that State in respect only of income from a source in that State.
 

3.         Where by reason of the preceding provisions, an individual is a resident of both Contracting States, the status of the person shall be determined in accordance with the following rules, applied in the order in which they are set out: 
            (a)        the person shall be deemed to be a resident solely of the Contracting
                         State in which a permanent home is available to the person;
             (b)        if a permanent home is available to the person in both Contracting States,
                         or in neither of them, the person shall be deemed to be a resident solely
                         of the Contracting State in which the person has an habitual abode;
             (c)        if the person has an habitual abode in both Contracting States, or in neither
                         of them, the person shall be deemed to be a resident solely of the Contracting
                         State with which the person's personal and economic relations are the closer.

 

I do not have a 'permanent home' in Thailand - I do have one in Australia.  I have a lot more personal (family and friends) relations in Australia than in Thailand. My economic relations are 90% with Australia - that is where all my money and wills and any legal rights I have are held - I pay tax in Australia - and I am a Citizen of Australia. I do not earn any income in Thailand anmd neither does my wife - working in Thailand would be a big factor in my economic relations.  I will always be closer to Australia personally and economically.

 

One of the reasons becoming a 'resident' in Thailand (a legal resident) is not appealing to me, is because that would change me from a long term tourist into a resident, and I would therefore become subject to a lot more Thai legal and financial obligations (it is both a give and take matter). The fact that I would have to pay a large amount of money to apply and then wait many years - and I will probably not get approved (age) - also came into my decision of course.  My wife on the other hand easily became an Aust Resident (small fee and online application - no interviews etc. - it was basically automatic. I am not and probably never will be a resident of Thailand and under the DTA I will pay no income taxes to Thailand - unless I earn income in Thailand.  

I was assuming /apparently wrongly) that you have no other tax residency other then TH so yes you are right your case may be different. Usually you only have one tax residency as most countries use the 183 day rule (AUS, US seem to be the exemption; Germany can be in some cases as well if you still have an abode in GER). On what ground does AUS rule you to be an AUS tax citizen? I think most expats with the exception of the US guys only have one tax residency as they cannot stay more then 183 in another country if they have already stayed 183 in TH. It is my understanding that the Thais can claim income tax from you all the same if the DTA does not prohibit it. In case of GER TH the DTA explicitly states that TH has the right to tax me if I live in TH and have not lived 183 in GER, no idea though about Australian DTA. Especially if you have no other tax residency (or income from the other state) TH can tax you as they please according only to their law. They could for example make up a wealth tax of 10% p.a. and charge it. Every country can make up their own law as you can see in North Korea, Iran etc no matter how outrageous it may seem to us westerners and give us nothing in return.

 

Again I still think TH will not collect or apply these taxes US IRS style but they could.

Now that we have the latest set of questions and answers from Sherrings, many important questions have been favorably closed out. In light of those answers, I think the chances that tax clearance certificates will be operationalised once again is almost zero. The facts now seem to suggest that, unless the tax form is changed significantly and the financial reporting requirements increased, it will not be necessary for the average retiree in Thailand to file a  tax return. 

 

And  since we appear to have reached a key milestone, it will be useful to understand what tax related issues now concern readers. One aspect will be the ways in which foreigner's can use the Thai tax system to their advantage by being tax resident here and allowing their pensions/income to be taxed in Thailand at a lower rate than in their home country.

@Mike Lister

I hope you're well and in best spirits. Despite facing personal attacks, intentional disruption, and delusional behavior from certain posters on the ASEANNow forum, I admire your tolerance. It can be challenging to navigate discussions with individuals who refuse or are incapable of reading or comprehending written documents.

Regardless the challenges, you remain committed to promoting open dialogue, fostering meaningful conversations and understanding and striving to maintain a positive and constructive attitude.

My thanks.

Think it would be a good idea to keep posting updated info from tax experts & also people's experiences/questions  when dealing with Thai RD.  

4 minutes ago, garygooner said:

Think it would be a good idea to keep posting updated info from tax experts & also people's experiences/questions  when dealing with Thai RD.  

Absolutely agree. There is a pinned thread linked below, for this specific purpose, anyone having contact and useful information, is encouraged to post:

 

 

On 2/2/2024 at 12:08 PM, redwood1 said:

 

Exactly......Folks what do these Non-O visas say?

 

They say you can not immigrate to Thailand....

 

So you have absolutely no benefits, and you are in no way a legal entity in Thailand... 

 

The list of what a non  immigrate can not do in Thailand is very long and the list of what a non  immigrate can do is very short with loads of restrictions like in working or owning a house or condo.....

 

So even if you never invested 1 baht or worked 1 day in Thailand in your life someone thinks you should be paying tax on any money you made before you came to Thailand?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One more thought on this...

 

The O ,1 year visas should say 1 year temporary resident of Thailand should it not? To be a resident of Thailand... 

 

I have never once heard the word resident and the O visa used together...

 

But I have heard the word Non Immigrant and the O visa used together a million times.....

 

This could be the first time in World history a Non Immigrant is considered a resident......This defies logic....A Non Immigrant can not be a resident....

5 hours ago, Charles_Holzhauer said:

I hope you're well and in best spirits. Despite facing personal attacks, intentional disruption, and delusional behavior from certain posters on the ASEANNow forum, I admire your tolerance. It can be challenging to navigate discussions with individuals who refuse or are incapable of reading or comprehending written documents.

Regardless the challenges, you remain committed to promoting open dialogue, fostering meaningful conversations and understanding and striving to maintain a positive and constructive attitude.

My thanks.

 

Hear hear.

Most members of ASIAN Now are of the USA or GB and they wright in this forum what they think about the DTA.

I've tread the GERMAN DTA(DBA)in the German language, recorded in the Budesgesetzblatt in 1968!

 

The following copy of § 18,2  states it very clearly in  German, English and Thai language that German pensins i.e. are not taxable in Thailand.

 

Does the running Thai Government want to break this DTA=DTA ?

 

 

 

 

 

51 minutes ago, puck2 said:

Most members of ASIAN Now are of the USA or GB and they wright in this forum what they think about the DTA.

I've tread the GERMAN DTA(DBA)in the German language, recorded in the Budesgesetzblatt in 1968!

 

The following copy of § 18,2  states it very clearly in  German, English and Thai language that German pensins i.e. are not taxable in Thailand.

 

Does the running Thai Government want to break this DTA=DTA ?

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly puck, it's ASEAN Now, not Asian now.

 

Secondly, I gather from what you have written that you haven't read much of what has been said thus far in the different threads, especially not that of the past 24 hours. The following link should explain most things, if it does not, may I suggest you read the simple tax guide that is pinned in the finance thread. Nobody is trying to break any DTA. 

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

 

 

 

4 hours ago, redwood1 said:

 

One more thought on this...

 

The O ,1 year visas should say 1 year temporary resident of Thailand should it not? To be a resident of Thailand... 

 

I have never once heard the word resident and the O visa used together...

 

But I have heard the word Non Immigrant and the O visa used together a million times.....

 

This could be the first time in World history a Non Immigrant is considered a resident......This defies logic....A Non Immigrant can not be a resident....

 

I live in my house, it's where I reside, it's my residence. Changing my visa status or type doesn't alter the fact that I reside where I do. I think that trying to argue the semantics of English language usage in a country where English is not the native language, is about as pointless as pointless can be. But that's just me, feel free to have at it.

On 2/2/2024 at 4:51 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

All good points mate - I will give my opinion one by one - but nothing is certain and no one knows it all.

 

Lodging Tax Returns - there is no penalty for not lodging a tax return when you have not taxes to pay. I read it somewhere in the Code that the penalties are onbly applicable when a person does not pay income taxes that were due.  Technically, they could force everyone to lodge a return, but their current 'method of operation' is not to require a tax return to be completed when income taxes are not liable to be paid.

 

DTAs are very expensive and costly to complete - I have been told that by two tax consultants/lawyers. Both those companies stated that they do those for companies a lot, and that the only persons they have ever lodged a tax return for were extremely wealthy Thais - nil Expats. 

 

Companies Incorporated in Thailand.  Yes - companies legally based in Thailand have to pay income taxes on all monies earned globally - unless under DTAs the other Country can lay claim to income earned in their own country (USA is particularly strong on this). That same thing and associuated rules do not apply (as such) to non-juristic private persons. 

 

 

Reading your great post another red flag for me was raised. If I do not have to file a tax report and most of the expats will not do in 2025 I am sure there will be no real "safety" even after 2025 how this will all play out. Are you 100% sure that one does not have to file? In other countries for example you have to file if you earn foreign income that has not been taxed no matter how neglible the amount. I am aware that this is not really an indication for Thailand but is shows there is the possibility burried somewhere deep in the thai RD laws and directives. Thanks!

6 hours ago, redwood1 said:

 

One more thought on this...

 

The O ,1 year visas should say 1 year temporary resident of Thailand should it not? To be a resident of Thailand... 

 

I have never once heard the word resident and the O visa used together...

 

But I have heard the word Non Immigrant and the O visa used together a million times.....

 

This could be the first time in World history a Non Immigrant is considered a resident......This defies logic....A Non Immigrant can not be a resident....

You are not becoming Resident of Thailand, you are becoming Tax Resident what is quite normal all around the world if you stay longer than 180 days in a Country.

2 hours ago, UWEB said:

You are not becoming Resident of Thailand, you are becoming Tax Resident what is quite normal all around the world if you stay longer than 180 days in a Country.

 

So what does this Green Card visa from the USA say....It says "RESIDENT".......To let people know they are a " RESIDENT" of the USA and have all the benefits and rights of being a " RESIDENT"....

 

 

And the O visa say " NON IMMIGRANT " .....To let people know that they are not a resident of Thailand....And make it clear they have zero rights or benefits of being a resident in Thailand...

Does the O visa say your a " NON IMMIGRANT "  except for taxes?.....Nope it sure does not.....

 

 

 

A CR1 spouse visa (also called IR1) is a green card that allows someone from another country to live in the U.S. with their spouse, a U.S. citizen or permanent resident. If you’ve been married for less than two years, you might get a CR-1 visa (conditional resident), and if you’ve been married for two years or more, you might get an IR1 visa 

7 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Firstly puck, it's ASEAN Now, not Asian now.

 

Secondly, I gather from what you have written that you haven't read much of what has been said thus far in the different threads, especially not that of the past 24 hours. The following link should explain most things, if it does not, may I suggest you read the simple tax guide that is pinned in the finance thread. Nobody is trying to break any DTA. 

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

 

 

 

Mister Lister, I'm so sorry for my awful mistake "ASIAN Now".

 

And you think that I didn't read read all threads to the new Tax problem. Maybe.

 

But that is not the problem. It seems that YOU didn't understand my yellow marked text of the DTA between Germany and Thailand. There you can read (quote):

"... peonsion and other payments for the past employment .... shell be exempt from tax in the other Contracting State"

 

That means for me, if Thailand does't respect a DTA, then it is disrespecting internation law !

 

And what should has to be respected in Thailand: international treaties or selfish (Thai) tax law???  Acting against the DTA is breaking international law.  If Thailand doesn't respect the DTA, you cannot trust Thailand political and law system in the future.

 

In this case of Thai tax planing, how much has been transfered maybe a problem.  There are different ways to do it. When/If my German pension is transfered to Thailand it should be tax-free according to the mentined DTA.

 

BTW, how to improve that I only transfer a part of my German pension? And will it be recognised? The Thai tax-offices will be overextendet with all these complicated rules. Srettha does not yet know how many rocks will fall down on his head and his coalition.

 

3 hours ago, puck2 said:

Mister Lister, I'm so sorry for my awful mistake "ASIAN Now".

 

And you think that I didn't read read all threads to the new Tax problem. Maybe.

 

But that is not the problem. It seems that YOU didn't understand my yellow marked text of the DTA between Germany and Thailand. There you can read (quote):

"... peonsion and other payments for the past employment .... shell be exempt from tax in the other Contracting State"

 

That means for me, if Thailand does't respect a DTA, then it is disrespecting internation law !

 

And what should has to be respected in Thailand: international treaties or selfish (Thai) tax law???  Acting against the DTA is breaking international law.  If Thailand doesn't respect the DTA, you cannot trust Thailand political and law system in the future.

 

In this case of Thai tax planing, how much has been transfered maybe a problem.  There are different ways to do it. When/If my German pension is transfered to Thailand it should be tax-free according to the mentined DTA.

 

BTW, how to improve that I only transfer a part of my German pension? And will it be recognised? The Thai tax-offices will be overextendet with all these complicated rules. Srettha does not yet know how many rocks will fall down on his head and his coalition.

 

I still don't see the problem, you write, "IF Thailand doesn't respect a DT..."......they do, why do you think they don't?

 

And it's ASEAN Now, Not ASIAN Now. Asia is the biggest continent in the world. ASEAN is the regional organization consisting of 10 members.

Just now, stat said:

Reading your great post another red flag for me was raised. If I do not have to file a tax report and most of the expats will not do in 2025 I am sure there will be no real "safety" even after 2025 how this will all play out. Are you 100% sure that one does not have to file? In other countries for example you have to file if you earn foreign income that has not been taxed no matter how neglible the amount. I am aware that this is not really an indication for Thailand but is shows there is the possibility burried somewhere deep in the thai RD laws and directives. Thanks!

I think things feel safer, especially for those with simple financials, remitting tax deducted at source Pensions.

 

But for those with more complex financials, there is more clarity, but some doubt still persists.  I'm not continuously in Thailand normally, so as long as they keep the remittance basis not to bad. I've only had one year a while back, that I would have been Thai tax resident, and I had no major financial transactions that year (Globally).

 

Reading the Norwegian Answer for example (earlier in the thread) 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/Norwegian_answer.pdf *

 

Scary word = Global

Not Scary "Remittance" mentioned later in the text though..

• (Posted Thursday at 05:24 AM  Mike Lister
   

And another, albeit from the Revenue itself:

 

2.1 Under Internal Regulations
In Thailand
In Thailand pension income is regarded as assessable income under Section
40 (1) of the Revenue Code. A resident of Thailand must declare his worldwide income on the basis that the income received from abroad in a tax year must be brought into Thailand within the same year, based on Section 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code. 

[link above] *)

 

 

4 hours ago, redwood1 said:

 

So what does this Green Card visa from the USA say....It says "RESIDENT".......To let people know they are a " RESIDENT" of the USA and have all the benefits and rights of being a " RESIDENT"....

 

 

And the O visa say " NON IMMIGRANT " .....To let people know that they are not a resident of Thailand....And make it clear they have zero rights or benefits of being a resident in Thailand...

Does the O visa say your a " NON IMMIGRANT "  except for taxes?.....Nope it sure does not.....

 

 

 

A CR1 spouse visa (also called IR1) is a green card that allows someone from another country to live in the U.S. with their spouse, a U.S. citizen or permanent resident. If you’ve been married for less than two years, you might get a CR-1 visa (conditional resident), and if you’ve been married for two years or more, you might get an IR1 visa 

You are relying on the English language interpretation of the rules which are unreliable. This is because of the mapping between Thai language, which describes the law, and, English which which is a poorly mapped translation, ergo, the use of the word "resident". 

10 hours ago, redwood1 said:

 

So what does this Green Card visa from the USA say....It says "RESIDENT".......To let people know they are a " RESIDENT" of the USA and have all the benefits and rights of being a " RESIDENT"....

 

 

And the O visa say " NON IMMIGRANT " .....To let people know that they are not a resident of Thailand....And make it clear they have zero rights or benefits of being a resident in Thailand...

Does the O visa say your a " NON IMMIGRANT "  except for taxes?.....Nope it sure does not.....

 

 

 

A CR1 spouse visa (also called IR1) is a green card that allows someone from another country to live in the U.S. with their spouse, a U.S. citizen or permanent resident. If you’ve been married for less than two years, you might get a CR-1 visa (conditional resident), and if you’ve been married for two years or more, you might get an IR1 visa 

Have no Idea what you have to do to get a Green Card for the US, but to become a Tax Resident in a Country other than your Homeland you just have to stay 180+ days without any additional Paperwork.

On 2/1/2024 at 1:08 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Everything that is written in the Thai RD Tax Code is written specifically for salary earners and recipients of income in Thailand, who are tax residents.  It has been and still is my belief that unless a person has to pay income taxes, then they do not have to lodge a tax return in Thailand.  The vast majority of Thai citrizens do not lodge tax returns - a google search indicates that only 6-9 million people lodge a tax return out of a population of over 50 million over the age of 18.  Unlike other countries, the Thai RD does not want everyone to lodge a tax return.

 

The application of everytghing in the Thai RD Revenue Code is not automatic, as some people think - otherwise every single person leaving Thailand would be fined 1000 Baht for not getting a tax clearance.  When it comes to application of the Code, it is not automatic that it will be against all money received/earned overseas by Expats and remitted into Thailand. DTAs have a big impact on those forms of income, as does the application of the Thai RD Tax Code in each and every single situation (and as directed by the Thai Govt). So does the application of the tax laws in Thailand against Expats (which have not been tested in a Court - yet).  No part of this 'new rule' ramifications have been 'tested' in a legal manner (Court), and the Thai RD often loses Court challenges. Depending on how they implement this new rule change, they are going to get a lot of new 'challenges' by Thai citizens for changing a system used for 30 years, with 3 months notice.

 

I am not keen to lodge a tax return in Thailand - ever.  I do not believe Thailand has the legal or moral right to force retired or married Expats to do so - unless they are using their Visas to avoid taxes overseas, or are earning money in Thailand.  That viewpoint is based upon how Thailand legally treats retired/married Expats.  Legally and technically, all Expats staying in Thailand long term are doing so as a tourist - we are not here as an immigrant - the 90 day reporting and annual renewals is due to the Visa being an extended tourist Visa - that is why we have the same 'legal rights' as a tourist. Thailand does not and cannot legally tax tourists, unless they are earning income while they are in Thailand.  There are Visas that actually give legal rights (such as the LTR), but the standard Visa that most Expats used when entering Thailand, is an extended tourist Visa - we are all tourists (visitors).  But I am not going to take that legal 'argument' further and get it tested in the Thai RD Tribunal or Court - only because that would be extremely expensive.

 

I will also point out that there is SFA arrangements in place at the Thai RD for the lodgement of a tax return in Thailand under which the terms and conditions of a DTA can be utlised. Both the written and online versions of the Thai RD tax lodgement do not cater for that situation.  Therefore, should any Expats wish to lodge a tax return and claim that certain money is not taxable under a DTA with their country, it will be an expensive exercise if we use a tax expert - and it could be very expensive if it goes to a Tribunal.  Plus I am certain that the Thai RD does not have the time and resources available to manage that anyway, should every Expat who receives over 120K Baht from a Pension lodge a tax return claiming they owe no taxes (or a very small amount) due to their interpretation of a DTA. Who the hell at the Thai RD is going to be able to deal with exemptions claimed under the DTAs that Thailand has with over 60 different countries. 

 

Unless I am working/earning income in Thailand (legally available only with a work permit), then I see no legal reason for a retired or married Expat to pay income taxes.  My calculations are that they get zero from myself anyway, but it is the principle of the matter.  When a Thai Court has ruled that Expats can be legally charged a much higher rate in a State hospital, because they are not Thai citizens and have more money, that clearly states we dont have the same legal rights as a Thai citizen. And there are so many other situations (like dual pricing, courts, etc.) where it is very clear what our/my legal status is in Thailand. Implicit in that is that we dont have to pay income taxes 

 

Thailand will find out soon enough that if they start applying income taxes against many Expats (especially their Pensions) then they will not stay living here in Thailand full-time.  Obviously some Expats have no choice and cannot easily move out, but many Expats can and will either just visit Thailand (<180 days), or they will take up other options.  It is no coincidence that the Taxation Minister in Malaysia, who introduced this same new rule in 2022, has stated that they have no intention of taxing the money of retired/married Expats that they bring into the country. As she said that is wrong because that is all 'new money' being broguht into the country, and it would be a massive disincentive for Expats to bring money into Malaysia if it is going to be taxed.  The implementation of this new tax rule is about removing the loophole that allowed citizens and companies to invest their money (earned in their country) overseas and to then bring that money back and not pay taxes on the earnings made on that investment overseas. The associated 'global taxation' system that is now being employed in many countries, is about stopping people living in one country for long periods, just so that they can avoid income taxation in another (and money laundering).

 

I couldn't agree more with everything in this post from @TroubleandGrumpy