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Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I


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Posted
6 hours ago, Happy happy said:

It is my understanding that those with a retirement visa and subject to a double taxation agreement will be unaffected by the new provisions. Even if monies are brought into a Thai Bank unless it exceeds 2 million baht in 1 year the banks in Thailand will not alert the Revenue Dept.

If of course you are currently filing tax returns here the situation may be different...

 

Interesting post! Can you elaborate pls on the 2 Million threshold, thanks!

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Posted
14 minutes ago, Irrumator said:

Let's see what happens, they have a habit of making announcements then quietly dropping them when it becomes clear they are shooting themselves in the foot and it suddenly fades away into the ether.
Otherwise I will be well and truly fahcked as will many others, probably in the high thousands.
Bye bye Thailand, hello Vietnam.  

Vietnam taxes your capital gains as regular income, you would likely be much better off in Thailand even under the new directive.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

I feel that looking at gifts is a dead end, if the money doesn't come from already taxed income in Thailand. Anyway the limit is 20 mil for family members and 10 mil for others, not 100 mil, which is inheritance tax.

20 Mil per family member is still enough, if you do not want to buy a top end villa or condo. Can you name a source for the 20 Mil limit gift tax, much obliged!

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Posted
9 minutes ago, stat said:

Vietnam taxes your capital gains as regular income, you would likely be much better off in Thailand even under the new directive.

Which retirement countries would be the best in your opinion?

Posted
46 minutes ago, tomkenet said:

Which retirement countries would be the best in your opinion?

Monaco maybe ? Or the Caymen Islands ? Depends on your financial reserves if tax is overly important. You may as well negotiate a tax deal with one of the Swiss Cantons (corresponds to the Thai Provinces, but they have own tax regimes). This is why so many real rich people live in the Canton of Zug where all the big Commodity Traders gather. The Cantons have very different views on this topic.

 

And if you can affort to have a nice villa on the Cote d' Azur you might as well have a house on the Caymans or in Geneva

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Posted
1 hour ago, moogradod said:

But I want to leave it like that, my stash of medicine has nearly run out, too.

 

Thank-you for your devotion to research, hopefully that was single-malt-whisky-medicine, and Good-Luck with the hangover !  ????

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Posted

1) In the earlier reporting I read an article/screeenshot in some thread here, that Capital Gains & Dividends already taxed abroad in one of the countries with a DTA would be exempt from this new legislation. Is that still the case? I understand that all details are not out yet. 

2) How till this be enforced, in practice? Many of us, me at least, don't declare any tax in this country and thus don't carry a tax number. Will they simply put a % tax on all the international transfers into my Thai bank account? It seems like a big undertaking, operationally, for a short set of time. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Misty said:

"Please be informed that normally, your overseas income will be subject to Thai personal income tax only when you are a tax resident (staying in Thailand 180 days or more in a tax year) and have brought such overseas income into Thailand in the same tax year that you are a tax resident and have received such overseas income.

Thank you for posting this very useful email from the BOI.  May I ask if you received this email before or after the announcement of the new taxation of foreign remittances from Jan 1, 2024 onwards?  If it was after, then it seems rather weird that the BOI continues to claim that "normally, your overseas income will be subject to Thai personal income tax only when you... have brought such overseas income into Thailand in the same tax year that you... have received such overseas income" which obviously will not be the case any longer from Jan 1, 2024 onwards.

Posted
1 hour ago, moogradod said:

As soon as a will is involved, the inheritance situation changes anyway. Do yourself a favour and spare worries and money for tranquilizers for the moment. Probably you will need them later. :coffee1:

 

I had to look into details of inheritance and tax before we moved here. You have little chance to filter out the truth by yourself. So I engaged a NUMBER of the most renown internationally operating consulting firms - and I BELIEVE that I got it right in the end - of course based on the existing rules at the time. From what I read here about any planned new future rules there must be more than a bug in it - some things are misinterpreted for sure. Cannot be otherwise. There are as well contradictions. But I want to leave it like that, my stash of medicine has nearly run out, too.

 

There probably are some future rules for inheritance tax because Srettha told the RD to propose ways of raking in more tax from it and from the Land and Buildings tax.  Inheritance tax was reintroduced by the junta government, saying it was a symbolic gesture not intended to raise much revenue but was clearly the thin end of the wedge. Gift tax usually goes together, so they will certainly review that at the same time. .

 

I might have to walk back what I said about gift tax not being a fruitful line of enquiry, at least under existing rules.  The exemptions do seem to apply to gifts between spouses and I can't see anything about the exemptions not applying to gifts from overseas. You can give 20 mil a year to your spouse for maintenance purposes and the same to your child.  But RD officials visit to see, if it looks like that much is being spent on maintenance in a poor Isaan village for example?  There seems very little written about gift tax and I can't even find the law in English or Thai.  I thought it was included in the Inheritance tax law but it is not.  

 

So perhaps you can make tax free gifts from offshore to your Thai spouse up to 20 mil a year tax free.  It probably has to stay with her thought.  If they see it was transferred to your account, they might it was not a gift but could she transfer it back to you as a gift some time later?  If she has an overseas account, the initial gifting could be done there and gifted back to you in Thailand. 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

There probably are some future rules for inheritance tax because Srettha told the RD to propose ways of raking in more tax from it and from the Land and Buildings tax.  Inheritance tax was reintroduced by the junta government, saying it was a symbolic gesture not intended to raise much revenue but was clearly the thin end of the wedge. Gift tax usually goes together, so they will certainly review that at the same time. .

 

I might have to walk back what I said about gift tax not being a fruitful line of enquiry, at least under existing rules.  The exemptions do seem to apply to gifts between spouses and I can't see anything about the exemptions not applying to gifts from overseas. You can give 20 mil a year to your spouse for maintenance purposes and the same to your child.  But RD officials visit to see, if it looks like that much is being spent on maintenance in a poor Isaan village for example?  There seems very little written about gift tax and I can't even find the law in English or Thai.  I thought it was included in the Inheritance tax law but it is not.  

 

So perhaps you can make tax free gifts from offshore to your Thai spouse up to 20 mil a year tax free.  It probably has to stay with her thought.  If they see it was transferred to your account, they might it was not a gift but could she transfer it back to you as a gift some time later?  If she has an overseas account, the initial gifting could be done there and gifted back to you in Thailand. 

Well that might be the way forward, for example i spend about 2.5 mil a year not including cars big purchases etc. But surely they will close that gap?

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Posted
3 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

Seems like it would be easier to just move to Siem Reap ????

Yea or that, but im 58 i really dont want to have to  up camp unless i have to, plus i got a family who sure as <deleted> aint moving to Cambodia

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Posted
6 minutes ago, jonny on the spot said:

Yea or that, but im 58 i really dont want to have to  up camp unless i have to, plus i got a family who sure as <deleted> aint moving to Cambodia

Cambodia blows big time....I like Laos  much better....

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Posted
11 minutes ago, jonny on the spot said:

Bad food but cheap beer ????

Yeah,and nice women ,but very dangerous country (Phnom Phen,Siam Riep).So much poverty,robbery and pickpoketing.I was robbery victim as well in Phnom Phen.You need to take with You not more than 30-50USD in a in small denominations.Food is not tasty like here.Laos is nice and with good food,but visa policy is pretty much difficult.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, vukovar77 said:

Yeah,and nice women ,but very dangerous country (Phnom Phen,Siam Riep).So much poverty,robbery and pickpoketing.I was robbery victim as well in Phnom Phen.You need to take with You not more than 30-50USD in a in small denominations.Food is not tasty like here.Laos is nice and with good food,but visa policy is pretty much difficult.

Im pretty much sold on Malaysia for my 6 months a year if this tax thing happens. I suppose its just a case of being careful, it can happen in London if you unlucky just as easy.

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Posted

Malaysia sounds much better than Laos and Cambodia, but mm2h visa has become expensive. It might change I've heard. Do you know how overseas income (not taxed at source) is taxed in Malaysia.

Posted
33 minutes ago, jonny on the spot said:

Im pretty much sold on Malaysia for my 6 months a year if this tax thing happens. I suppose its just a case of being careful, it can happen in London if you unlucky just as easy.

The problem with Malaysia is that the conditions of their Second Home Visa are very onerous and expensive and if you go there for 6 months without a visa you will probably get into trouble even if you leave some time between the different stays.  Or what visa are you thinking about using for Malaysia?

Posted

Possible to do Cambodia half time and new Vietnam 90 day other half of the year?? I did not think cambodia and Vietnam were really “dangerous” but you need some street smarts and not be a total goofball.

 

i ruled out Malaysia, what was it you need a million or so, I don’t remember. Loas is too weird for me and would not be comfortable living there long term, although the people were friendly. Burma is out, don’t want to get shot in the head.

 

Theres also Guam, us citizens can stay forever, no visa. I just checked it, rents are high, about the same as the USA. Nice island, beaches and clean water.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, tomkenet said:

Malaysia sounds much better than Laos and Cambodia, but mm2h visa has become expensive. It might change I've heard. Do you know how overseas income (not taxed at source) is taxed in Malaysia.

I havent even looked yet but im guessing if i am only there 6 months i am a visitor not a resident. But i gotta tell you property is good value there.

Posted
23 minutes ago, K2938 said:

The problem with Malaysia is that the conditions of their Second Home Visa are very onerous and expensive and if you go there for 6 months without a visa you will probably get into trouble even if you leave some time between the different stays.  Or what visa are you thinking about using for Malaysia?

As far as i can see if you have a condo RM 1.5 

mil and an income you are golden. I will obviously look into this properly if i have to.

Sorry for the edit

Dont forget property there is an investment, you aint actually throwing money away.

 

Posted
1 hour ago, vukovar77 said:

Yeah,and nice women ,but very dangerous country (Phnom Phen,Siam Riep).So much poverty,robbery and pickpoketing.I was robbery victim as well in Phnom Phen.You need to take with You not more than 30-50USD in a in small denominations.Food is not tasty like here.Laos is nice and with good food,but visa policy is pretty much difficult.

Can you give detail and exact location of the robbery? Was it a mugging?

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