1 minute ago, MJCM said:

Nah more like 71k (Figures just basic thus no deductions etc etc)

Age related allowances might come into play here which is why I questioned it.

 

The older you are, the less you pay, apparently.

2 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Age related allowances might come into play here which is why I questioned it.

 

The older you are, the less you pay, apparently.

That is why I said

 

  

4 minutes ago, MJCM said:

(Figures just basic thus no deductions etc etc)

 

One issue I am looking is assessable income on sale of UK property. If I sell, UK CGT will be 28%.   Presumably the RD is going to want to tax the principle since I was already a Thai tax resident when I purchased it and I have no way of showing it was purchased from taxed income.  So, if I remit to Thailand only the profit on which UK CGT has been paid and not the principle, would the RD accept a tax credit for the 28% CGT and just charge me the difference between the top rate of Thai tax of 35% and 28%? Or would they even accept that the principle is not assessable?

 

I don't suppose they have bothered to think about this sort of issue or will just charge 35% on principle that was already overseas and profit with hopefully a tax credit for the CGT.  At any rate it is iniquitous and unfair to charge 35% tax on remittance of property proceeds when Thai property is taxed at a flat rate that hardly ever gets over 5% of the appraisal value and that is not even added to your annual income.  So you can sell hundreds of millions worth of Thai property and not even be at the top 35% tax rate that kicks in over 5 million.  You would think they would want to encourage rich Thais who buy property for their kids studying in London to sell up and remit the profits back to Thailand when they don't need the property any more with reasonable tax rates but they are just applying a sourced earth policy like the communists have taken over or something. I suppose the Thai investors can just remit the principle back and leave the profits overseas but that is not beneficial for the Thai economy.

8 minutes ago, ukrules said:

I just entered a monthly amount into the UOB calculator which is available here

 

UOB tax calculator : https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-calculation

 

Maybe there's some allowances I missed but we're like 45/50 years old so I doubt there's much.

Very useful site. Makes it all so simple, and not too expensive.

9 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Wish I knew what CRS was............Canadian/ Cambodian/ Chinese/ Croatian Revenue Service?

Take your pick:

 

https://www.acronymfinder.com/CRS.html

 

I rather like, Cosmic Ray Subsystem

Just now, Dogmatix said:

One issue I am looking is assessable income on sale of UK property. If I sell, UK CGT will be 28%.   Presumably the RD is going to want to tax the principle since I was already a Thai tax resident when I purchased it and I have no way of showing it was purchased from taxed income.  So, if I remit to Thailand only the profit on which UK CGT has been paid and not the principle, would the RD accept a tax credit for the 28% CGT and just charge me the difference between the top rate of Thai tax of 35% and 28%? Or would they even accept that the principle is not assessable?

 

I don't suppose they have bothered to think about this sort of issue or will just charge 35% on principle that was already overseas and profit with hopefully a tax credit for the CGT.  At any rate it is iniquitous and unfair to charge 35% tax on remittance of property proceeds when Thai property is taxed at a flat rate that hardly ever gets over 5% of the appraisal value and that is not even added to your annual income.  So you can sell hundreds of millions worth of Thai property and not even be at the top 35% tax rate that kicks in over 5 million.  

Why tax the principle, it came from savings surely, mine did.

2 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

when Thai property is taxed at a flat rate

Where does it say foreign property should be taxed differently? 

10 minutes ago, MJCM said:

 

Nah more like 71k (Figures just basic thus no deductions etc etc)

 

 

 

OK, that's on 'loads a money'

Please read my post which calculated it for 65k per month, 780k per year.

4 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Take your pick:

 

https://www.acronymfinder.com/CRS.html

 

I rather like, Cosmic Ray Subsystem

I just hate TLAs

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Which is done online and is easy enough to do. The country will probably get to that point one day, or close to, I think. 

Please tell me Mike - where do you claim DTA exemptions via this 'easy enough to do' online tax return? 

080966PIT94.pdf (rd.go.th)

Maybe there is another online tax return system - please advise where that is - I could not find it.

11 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Common Reporting Standard

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Reporting_Standard

 

 

TLAs are so stupid. When a newsreader mentions one, they usually tell you what it means. Same as in newspaper articles. WTF is it all about?

8 hours ago, atpeace said:

Thanks and I was wondering about this and enjoyed your easy to understand explanation.  In either case it wouldn't be assessable unless you kept all your receipts and volunteered the information.  As far as I know, there is no means for the Thailand to track the transaction.  Merchants get a name, last 4 digits on card and really nothing they can do with that information.  Am I wrong?

There was a recent seminar at AMCHAM in Bangkok where it was stated that Thailand does plan to track credit/debit card use.  Posted somewhere higher up in the maybe ten last pages of this thread

2 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

OK, that's on 'loads a money'

Please read my post which calculated it for 65k per month, 780k per year.

Read the Excel sheet again please

 

Tax is calculated per year and the Sheet calculates 65.000 THB per month over a year period. (and thus accumulates 780.000 THB) which the Sheet calculates tax over as Tax is calculated per YEAR and not per month

 

 

 

 

Just now, MJCM said:

Read the Excel sheet again please

 

Tax is calculated per year and the Sheet calculates 65.000 THB per month over a year period. (and thus accumulates 780.000 THB) which the Sheet calculates tax over as Tax is calculated per YEAR and not per month

 

 

 

 

OK, up to you

3 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Read the Excel sheet again please

 

Tax is calculated per year and the Sheet calculates 65.000 THB per month over a year period. (and thus accumulates 780.000 THB) which the Sheet calculates tax over as Tax is calculated per YEAR and not per month

 

 

 

 

Confused, please explain. What Excel sheet?

 

9 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Please tell me Mike - where do you claim DTA exemptions via this 'easy enough to do' online tax return? 

080966PIT94.pdf (rd.go.th)

Maybe there is another online tax return system - please advise where that is - I could not find it.

I've never had to hence I don't know, sorry. But I do recall seeing that money reclaimed under a DTA with Thailand is in the form of a credit rather than a repayment.

25 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

OK, up to you

Maybe this makes it clearer for you

 

 

 

Attachment Removed

 

 

On 10/10/2023 at 6:55 PM, MJCM said:

Maybe this makes it clearer for you

 

 

Edit: This doesn't take INTO account any deductions (old ages, married etc etc etc etc) just a basic calculation this is

<deleted> (TLA) I, and others said this ages ago.

On 10/10/2023 at 7:02 PM, KannikaP said:

<deleted> (TLA) I, and others said this ages ago.

Thx. I did not read all pages. But oke. Will remove it! <deleted> (trying to help and you get <deleted>)

 

1 minute ago, MJCM said:

- post withdrawn

Cheers. I hope it works out well for ALL of us expats and resident workers.

So if my wife and I were to live on 500k next year, I deposited 200K before Jan 1 2024, then I deposited 149000 into my Thai account, and my wife deposited 149000 into the wifes account., Neither of us would be required to submit a tax return?

12 minutes ago, beammeup said:

So if my wife and I were to live on 500k next year, I deposited 200K before Jan 1 2024, then I deposited 149000 into my Thai account, and my wife deposited 149000 into the wifes account., Neither of us would be required to submit a tax return?

Technically speaking, anyone who has assessible income of over 60,000 baht in a tax year, is required to file a tax return.

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/tax-administration#:~:text=Individuals engaged in most forms,their spouse%2C whichever they prefer.

10 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Technically speaking, anyone who has assessible income of over 60,000 baht in a tax year, is required to file a tax return.

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/tax-administration#:~:text=Individuals engaged in most forms,their spouse%2C whichever they prefer.

It will be remittance from savings. Is that considered assessable income?

Just now, beammeup said:

It will be remittance from savings. Is that considered assessable income?

Ummmm, I don't think so but I can't be 100% certain of the details of the new rules because they remain unclear. As long as the savings weren't earned in the year they are remitted, you should be OK. So if you remit in 2023, make sure they were earned in a prior year.

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The 190k is an over 65 year olds deduction that is separate and different from the first 150k of the tax tables which is zero rated for tax, for everyone. A 65+ year old person would be allowed a 60k personal care allowance, plus a 190k over 65 years old deduction, plus any other deductions for which they are eligible, eg health insurance premiums. The net of those things would then give a total which is then put to the tax tables, the first 150k is zero rated, the next 150k is taxed at 5%, and so on.

The 190K are not a deduction, it's an exemption.

People of 65 yo or older are entitled to an income exemption up to 190K instead of 150K Baht.

 

15 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

The 190K are not a deduction, it's an exemption.

People of 65 yo or older are entitled to an income exemption up to 190K instead of 150K Baht.

 

I think you are right,  but:

Where do you get the word "instead" from? 

I have read both versions,  "instead of 150000" and "in addition to 150000", both in reliable sources. 

I have no idea which one is true.

 

2 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Where do you get the word "instead" from? 

I have read both versions,  "instead of 150000" and "in addition to 150000", both in reliable sources. 

I have no idea which one is true.

 

It cannot be "in addition", it's "either...or".

 

PWC:

"In order to support low income earners and the aged, the first THB 150,000 of net income is tax exempt. For a resident who is 65 years of age or older, an exemption is granted on income up to an amount not exceeding THB 190,000."

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/income-determination

 

moneymgmnt.com:

"The first 150,000 THB of your net income is not taxed (this number is increased to 190,000 THB for residents aged 65 and older)."

https://www.moneymgmnt.com/tax/personal-income-tax-rates-thailand/

 

Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2021 (ภ.ง.ด.91) page 4:

"A taxpayer who is 65 years of age or older is entitled up to 190,000 baht of income exemption from his/her total income"

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/030265guide91.pdf

 

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

3 hours ago, Yumthai said:

It cannot be "in addition", it's "either...or".

 

PWC:

"In order to support low income earners and the aged, the first THB 150,000 of net income is tax exempt. For a resident who is 65 years of age or older, an exemption is granted on income up to an amount not exceeding THB 190,000."

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/income-determination

 

moneymgmnt.com:

"The first 150,000 THB of your net income is not taxed (this number is increased to 190,000 THB for residents aged 65 and older)."

https://www.moneymgmnt.com/tax/personal-income-tax-rates-thailand/

 

Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2021 (ภ.ง.ด.91) page 4:

"A taxpayer who is 65 years of age or older is entitled up to 190,000 baht of income exemption from his/her total income"

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/030265guide91.pdf

 

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

Isn't it amazing,  how PwC and Sherrings don't say "instead of" or "in addition to"? Only moneymgmnt gives a clear and simple answer,  unfortunately the wrong one.

 

What does the RD say?

You quote ภ.ง.ด.91 which is for taxpayers who have only income from employment (the title of the pdf says so), so it's not useful for us.

 

Go to 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

Download:

 

No 1 - the form, also called ภ.ง.ด.90

Personal Income Tax Return for taxpayer with income not only from employment (Tax Year 2022)

 

No 2 - the guide

Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2022 (ภ.ง.ด.90)

 

No 6 

Income Exemption Entitlement Form to be used with ภ.ง.ด.90 for the year ....

 

This is what we need. 

 

On p7 of the guide they talk about those 190000 exemption for over 65 y.o.

The 4th bullet point says:

If you are qualified for the exemption mentioned above, please fill out the “Income Exemption Entitlement Form” (i.e. No 6) and deduct an income exemption amount from income calculated in that form as your assessable income on ภ.ง.ด.90 (= the form).

 

The headline on top of this same p7 says

"Page 2-4 of ภ.ง.ด.90 (= the form) – Assessable Income"

and all the following pages of the guide, until p26, explain how to calculate the assessable income.

 

Then on p26 the guide explains

"Computation of Net-Income Tax
In computing tax liability by using the Net-Income Tax method, a taxpayer has to take into account all assessable income arising in a tax year. The next step is to deduct the deductible expenses from assessable incomes. Allowances are then to be deducted in accordance with the taxpayer’s circumstances. The last step is to subtract any qualified charitable contribution within the limit specified by law. Then, the progressive tax rates will be applied to any income left from all deductions."

(Later it explains another method,  "Computation of Gross-Income Tax" - that's for people who have so much money that they may not care about 190000. The LTR crowd, maybe.)

The "progressive tax rates" are the often-quoted table

 

3.1 Progressive Tax Rates

Personal income tax rates applicable to taxable income are as follows

Tax rates of the Personal Income Tax

 

Taxable Income (baht)	Tax Rate (%)
0-150,000	Exempt
more than 150,000 but less than 300,000	5
more than 300,000 but less than 500,000	10
more than 500,000 but less than 750,000	15
more than 750,000 but less than 1,000,000	20
more than 1,000,000 but less than 2,000,000	25
more than 2,000,000 but less than 4,000,000	30
Over 4,000,000	35

 

as seen at

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

So, after all, those 190000 exemption for taxpayers over 65 are to be deducted at the very beginning of the calculation,  when you calculate assessable income. 

Deductions and allowances are deducted later.

If the resulting net income is less than 150000, no tax is due.

 

In effect,  the 190000 are "in addition to" the 150000.

 

19 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Isn't it amazing,  how PwC and Sherrings don't say "instead of" or "in addition to"? Only moneymgmnt gives a clear and simple answer,  unfortunately the wrong one.

 

What does the RD say?

You quote ภ.ง.ด.91 which is for taxpayers who have only income from employment (the title of the pdf says so), so it's not useful for us.

 

Go to 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

Download:

 

No 1 - the form, also called ภ.ง.ด.90

Personal Income Tax Return for taxpayer with income not only from employment (Tax Year 2022)

 

No 2 - the guide

Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2022 (ภ.ง.ด.90)

 

No 6 

Income Exemption Entitlement Form to be used with ภ.ง.ด.90 for the year ....

 

This is what we need. 

 

On p7 of the guide they talk about those 190000 exemption for over 65 y.o.

The 4th bullet point says:

If you are qualified for the exemption mentioned above, please fill out the “Income Exemption Entitlement Form” (i.e. No 6) and deduct an income exemption amount from income calculated in that form as your assessable income on ภ.ง.ด.90 (= the form).

 

The headline on top of this same p7 says

"Page 2-4 of ภ.ง.ด.90 (= the form) – Assessable Income"

and all the following pages of the guide, until p26, explain how to calculate the assessable income.

 

Then on p26 the guide explains

"Computation of Net-Income Tax
In computing tax liability by using the Net-Income Tax method, a taxpayer has to take into account all assessable income arising in a tax year. The next step is to deduct the deductible expenses from assessable incomes. Allowances are then to be deducted in accordance with the taxpayer’s circumstances. The last step is to subtract any qualified charitable contribution within the limit specified by law. Then, the progressive tax rates will be applied to any income left from all deductions."

(Later it explains another method,  "Computation of Gross-Income Tax" - that's for people who have so much money that they may not care about 190000. The LTR crowd, maybe.)

The "progressive tax rates" are the often-quoted table

 

3.1 Progressive Tax Rates

Personal income tax rates applicable to taxable income are as follows

Tax rates of the Personal Income Tax

 

Taxable Income (baht)	Tax Rate (%)
0-150,000	Exempt
more than 150,000 but less than 300,000	5
more than 300,000 but less than 500,000	10
more than 500,000 but less than 750,000	15
more than 750,000 but less than 1,000,000	20
more than 1,000,000 but less than 2,000,000	25
more than 2,000,000 but less than 4,000,000	30
Over 4,000,000	35

 

as seen at

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

So, after all, those 190000 exemption for taxpayers over 65 are to be deducted at the very beginning of the calculation,  when you calculate assessable income. 

Deductions and allowances are deducted later.

If the resulting net income is less than 150000, no tax is due.

 

In effect,  the 190000 are "in addition to" the 150000.

 

Thank you Lorry -- this is the best and most informative post on this whole thread. It gives the sources for the only site that matters, because it is the official site of the Revenue Department -- for people who are serious about trying to understand the correct information on how to go about filing a tax return according to the official guide. All the forms you need are there; of course this needs to be updated for 2023 by the RD.  Bravo!

4 hours ago, Lorry said:

I think you are right,  but:

Where do you get the word "instead" from? 

I have read both versions,  "instead of 150000" and "in addition to 150000", both in reliable sources. 

I have no idea which one is true.

 

And now I'm uncertain having read posters @Yumthaipost! On balance, I don't think it's in "instead of". The first 150k is neither an exemption nor a deduction, it's a zero rated band of tax on the tax tables.