Social insurance in Thailand

[Celsius]

I am asking this for my wife.

 

She has been paying into social insurance for over 20 years. Last 15 years using the maximum contribution.

 

There is something she is trying to explain to me that does not make any sense.

 

Basically if we move to Canada she is saying that she should stop paying social insurance because the government will calculate the amount she was paying at her last job (which was a maximum). She says that if she continues paying while basically unemployed, the government will calculate the lower contribution payments which will lower her payouts once she retires.

 

Is this correct?

 

 

[digbeth]

yes, you get less pension per month if you do continue to pay in to the system after quitting the job, best to just stop

 

only reason to keep paying is if you want to have medical coverage from social security system, otherwise you just move to the free for everyone universal healthcare system, the social security system does have access to private hospitals, but usually just as bad wait times as government hospital, the universal system have better treatment and coverage for acute disease

 

if you never use the hospital coverage, already has private insurance, best to leave and collect the pension

[Bagwain]

Beware ther pay back practices! My missus diagnosed cancer and treatment & operations started. Social Security hospital OK, however she needed to be referred to the cancer hospital and this has to be paid up front. Took SS 13 months to start paying back the 1st lump they accepted. 1st amount 170 k. Divided monthy for 6 months for refund. Took anouther 3 months for the 2nd lump of 150,000 to start paying. (They blamed the elections for this ????) Cost me 2 million so far and hasn't stopped. You only get back 70% and this is just going back into the medical bills. If the company doesn't pay SS on time for the employee there is a fine. The system is F*ked! Tried to open a "Gofundme" but cannot from Thailand. Even if someone does for you overseas you still cannot access it here, even with a VPN! ????????

[digbeth]

1 hour ago, Bagwain said:

Beware ther pay back practices! My missus diagnosed cancer and treatment & operations started. Social Security hospital OK, however she needed to be referred to the cancer hospital and this has to be paid up front. Took SS 13 months to start paying back the 1st lump they accepted. 1st amount 170 k. Divided monthy for 6 months for refund. Took anouther 3 months for the 2nd lump of 150,000 to start paying. (They blamed the elections for this ????) Cost me 2 million so far and hasn't stopped. You only get back 70% and this is just going back into the medical bills. If the company doesn't pay SS on time for the employee there is a fine. The system is F*ked! Tried to open a "Gofundme" but cannot from Thailand. Even if someone does for you overseas you still cannot access it here, even with a VPN! ????????

Cancer is some of the thing where the Universal Healthcare system is doing better than the Social Security, free upfront, free throughout care my MIL on the universal free for everything just went through with operations and chemo for a year now, only thing we have to pay was the hospital room upgrade, the diagnosis, referrals and multiple expensive tests even at private hospitals for things like MRI was all taken care off, so yes, unless you have an existing health problem you are seeing with a hospital under the social security plan, there are no reason to continue paying into the system until retirement if you've left your job. 

[Bagwain]

2 hours ago, digbeth said:

Cancer is some of the thing where the Universal Healthcare system is doing better than the Social Security, free upfront, free throughout care my MIL on the universal free for everything just went through with operations and chemo for a year now, only thing we have to pay was the hospital room upgrade, the diagnosis, referrals and multiple expensive tests even at private hospitals for things like MRI was all taken care off, so yes, unless you have an existing health problem you are seeing with a hospital under the social security plan, there are no reason to continue paying into the system until retirement if you've left your job. 

What hospital, if in Thailand, as It doesn't correspond with our experience!

[digbeth]

11 hours ago, Bagwain said:

What hospital, if in Thailand, as It doesn't correspond with our experience!

Bangphlee Amphur hospital in Samut Prakarn for the initial care and operation and the Samut Prakarn province hospital for the only oncology department in the province, this is not under the social security system but the universal healthcare for everyone. Wait times are long, but bearable keeping in mind it's free

[C3PO]

I would be curious to hear what your experiences were with the universal health care scheme in terms of the quality of healthcare. Would you rather pay for private health insurance for a Thai national, or use the universal healthcare scheme and then pay out of pocket for room upgrades and diagnostic tests, etc. to speed up processes? From what other people have commented on this forum, many Thai private insurance policies come with serious red flags.

[Celsius]

8 minutes ago, C3PO said:

I would be curious to hear what your experiences were with the universal health care scheme in terms of the quality of healthcare. Would you rather pay for private health insurance for a Thai national, or use the universal healthcare scheme and then pay out of pocket for room upgrades and diagnostic tests, etc. to speed up processes? From what other people have commented on this forum, many Thai private insurance policies come with serious red flags.

 

Yes, it seems it is better to go universal for Thai nationals instead of paying for insurance. You should know that for Thai insurance to have any sort of cover there also needs to be a life insurance included in the plan. My wife has been paying for private insurance for almost 20 years including life insurance. From what I read it allows her unlimited cancer treatment BUT ONLY ONCE! She also has private insurance from her employer including social insurance. All of them seem to be completely useless as she still has to pay for tests out of pocket and they would not even pay for a tonsil removal which was recommended by her doctor. I was also with AIA and found it completely useless it was outpatient care.

 

My wife's father on the other hand as I wrote in another thread paid for MRI and a month later got a free surgery lined up for his torn muscle using a 30 baht scheme.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Celsius

[C3PO]

Thanks, @Celsius, I didn't know about the life insurance requirement. Another option would be to include Thai nationals under an expat policy. However, with many of these policies, their cover would end if the expat policyholder dies, meaning they would then be back to using universal healthcare. But that would still better than paying for a policy that doesn't deliver when it matters. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by C3PO

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, Celsius said:

She also has private insurance from her employer including social insurance. All of them seem to be completely useless as she still has to pay for tests out of pocket

Social security has covered my medical bills to the tune of 5.5+ million this year alone.

Have had MRI scans and ultra sounds to monitor a growing tumour on my kidney (Discovered during an my stay for 3 months earlier this year with severe pneumonia), it is now at the stage (6cm) it has to be removed... this has been covered by social security and they will also cover the operation and rehab.

Social wont pay for food or private hospital room, my other insurance covers that up to Bt.6000 per day.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Ralf001

[khunPer]

Below is the official explanation in English – age, 55 years, might have been changed sine I store it, or they are just suggesting a higher age (my blue highlight, as that is the interesting part for OP)...

 

Recipients of pension payouts must be at least 55 and no longer insured under the Social Security Act.

Those who have contributed to the fund for 15 years will get a monthly payment equal to 20% of their average wage for the last 60 months before retirement.

For those who have contributed to the fund for more than 15 years, they will get an extra of 1.5% per each additional year.

Currently employees pay 3% of their monthly salary, capped at 15,000 baht, to the scheme, and the amount is matched by employers.

The combined contribution of 6% to the scheme is considered low when compared with the recommended 13%. It is recommended that retirees should receive no less than half of their base salary.

Calculation of pension benefits

Number of years of contribution/ pension rate/ monthly payment (baht):

• ·         15 years/20%/3,000

• ·         20 years/27.5%/4,125

• ·         25 years/35.5%/5,250

• ·         30 years/42.5%/ 6,375

• ·         35 years/50%/7,500

[digbeth]

16 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Currently employees pay 3% of their monthly salary, capped at 15,000 baht,

If you just quit at 15 years or more, your final salary used to calculate the pension is at the maximum 15,000 which works out to 3000 baht per month pension, or a bit more if you have worked more than 15 years

 

however if you continue paying into SS after leaving work (section 39) but before the age of retirement to receive the pension, the base salary used to calculate pension will be 4800 Baht, which results in 960baht pension instead of 3000 you'd have got if you not continue paying

 

Only thing you got from continue paying is healthcare, if you have better private insurance or a Thai National that can go on the universal free for all system, there's no point to continue paying

 

(This is for where you've paid into the system for more than 15 years of course) If you've only worked for a few years, continue paying into the system is good cheap access to government healthcare 

[scorecard]

On 9/19/2023 at 1:30 PM, Ralf001 said:

Social security has covered my medical bills to the tune of 5.5+ million this year alone.

Have had MRI scans and ultra sounds to monitor a growing tumour on my kidney (Discovered during an my stay for 3 months earlier this year with severe pneumonia), it is now at the stage (6cm) it has to be removed... this has been covered by social security and they will also cover the operation and rehab.

Social wont pay for food or private hospital room, my other insurance covers that up to Bt.6000 per day.

From above:

 

"...Social wont pay for food or private hospital room, my other insurance covers that up to Bt.6000 per day."

 

Sounds worth knowing about, would you please share some details, appreciated.

 

[Ralf001]

50 minutes ago, scorecard said:

From above:

 

"...Social wont pay for food or private hospital room, my other insurance covers that up to Bt.6000 per day."

 

Sounds worth knowing about, would you please share some details, appreciated.

 

Social Security covers the cost of general open ward and whatever the slop (food) of the day is.

I wanted private room, my private (that declined coverage for the very reason I was in hospital) insurance covered my room costs under their day room rate cover.

[Celsius]

1 hour ago, digbeth said:

If you just quit at 15 years or more, your final salary used to calculate the pension is at the maximum 15,000 which works out to 3000 baht per month pension, or a bit more if you have worked more than 15 years

 

however if you continue paying into SS after leaving work (section 39) but before the age of retirement to receive the pension, the base salary used to calculate pension will be 4800 Baht, which results in 960baht pension instead of 3000 you'd have got if you not continue paying

 

Seriously? You get only 3000thb after paying full social security for 15 years or more?

 

Is there any and I mean any way to withdraw this scam money before the retirement age?

[Ralf001]

13 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

Seriously? You get only 3000thb after paying full social security for 15 years or more?

 

Is there any and I mean any way to withdraw this scam money before the retirement age?

3k a month is decent considering he/she was paying up to Bt.750 a month. 

[Celsius]

3 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

3k a month is decent considering he/she was paying up to Bt.750 a month. 

750 her plus 750 her employer

[Ralf001]

1 minute ago, Celsius said:

750 her plus 750 her employer

3k a month is decent considering 750 her plus 750 her employer.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

Social Security covers the cost of general open ward and whatever the slop (food) of the day is.

I wanted private room, my private (that declined coverage for the very reason I was in hospital) insurance covered my room costs under their day room rate cover.

"...day room rate cover." Is this part of the Social Security Fund Injury and Sickness benefits in the 'Voluntary Insurance' system?

 

Can you please share a little more detail. Thanks.

[Ralf001]

18 minutes ago, scorecard said:

"...day room rate cover." Is this part of the Social Security Fund Injury and Sickness benefits in the 'Voluntary Insurance' system?

 

Can you please share a little more detail. Thanks.

SS cover cost of bed in general open ward.

 

I went private room, daily SS cover cost of bed in general open ward cost was  discounted off my private room by Bt. 850.00..... because not using general ward bed.

Also chose to not eat hospital food, another Bt.500 discount on private room.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Ralf001

[scorecard]

Just now, Ralf001 said:

SS cover cost of bed in general open ward.

Thanks now realize what you men.

 

Are you saying there's an extra SSF insurance item  available to cover a private room, better food?

[Ralf001]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Thanks now realize what you men.

 

Are you saying there's an extra SSF insurance item  available to cover a private room, better food?

No extra SSF cover.

 

I also have private through my work.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

No extra SSF cover.

 

I also have private through my work.

Thanks.

This discussion stirs whether such a 

'top up' (just a top up) is commercially available.

 

Anybody any comments / experience with this? 

[DineshR]

...re the comment earlier -- "...for Thai insurance to have any sort of cover there also needs to be a life insurance included in the plan."

 

This is incorrect .... you can get health cover insurance for Thais without the life insurance part .... when I first came here, I heard the same thing but as I dug into, I realized that a vast majority of Thais have AIA as their insurance provider and AIA only sells cover as part of their life insurance package ... there are many insurance providers in Thailand that do provide health cover without the need for the life insurance bit ... I did some analysis on the value of the premiums paid to AIA for their combined life/health vs health only from other insurers and AIA ,in my opinion, does not offer value for what is paid. You could just pay for comparable coverage from some other insurer and save the difference in premiums to get a better overall long term benefit compared to AIA. I have challenged several people selling AIA insurance with my comparisons and they can't refute it. That said, Thais generally go with AIA because it's easy - one payment and you get both - cover and savings.

[digbeth]

15 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

Seriously? You get only 3000thb after paying full social security for 15 years or more?

 

Is there any and I mean any way to withdraw this scam money before the retirement age?

Quit before 15 years and you can take a lump sum payment 

[digbeth]

8 minutes ago, DineshR said:

...re the comment earlier -- "...for Thai insurance to have any sort of cover there also needs to be a life insurance included in the plan."

 

This is incorrect .... you can get health cover insurance for Thais without the life insurance part .... when I first came here, I heard the same thing but as I dug into, I realized that a vast majority of Thais have AIA as their insurance provider and AIA only sells cover as part of their life insurance package ... there are many insurance providers in Thailand that do provide health cover without the need for the life insurance bit ... I did some analysis on the value of the premiums paid to AIA for their combined life/health vs health only from other insurers and AIA ,in my opinion, does not offer value for what is paid. You could just pay for comparable coverage from some other insurer and save the difference in premiums to get a better overall long term benefit compared to AIA. I have challenged several people selling AIA insurance with my comparisons and they can't refute it. That said, Thais generally go with AIA because it's easy - one payment and you get both - cover and savings.

the combined life/health with saving element usually don't cover outpatient treatment, leading to unnecessary hospital stay in order to qualify

 

there's plenty of the separate health only options that covers outpatient treatment too, usually bundled with accident covers, but often limited to set amount per visit, usually a few thousands baht, anything more you either pay out of pocket or ask to be admitted in order to use the life insurance 

[digbeth]

16 hours ago, scorecard said:

Thanks now realize what you men.

 

Are you saying there's an extra SSF insurance item  available to cover a private room, better food?

you just pay extra to the hospital, the special private rooms can be full depending on the hospital though, I don't think better foods are available anywhere

[Celsius]

2 hours ago, digbeth said:

Quit before 15 years and you can take a lump sum payment 

yea.... too late

[digbeth]

16 minutes ago, Celsius said:

yea.... too late

live to about 70 and you'll have collected the pay to be worth what you paid in (not adjusted for inflation) 

if one were to die before that, next of kin can also receive a lump sum too

not considering any compensation or medical treatment received thus far

[Celsius]

Just now, digbeth said:

live to about 70 and you'll have collected the pay to be worth what you paid in (not adjusted for inflation) 

if one were to die before that, next of kin can also receive a lump sum too

not considering any compensation or medical treatment received thus far

 

Yea.... I was asking for my wife, not myself.

 

We plan to move to Canada (maybe) and my original question was if she should continue paying SS, but apparently not because if she did her pension would go down.