NONTHABURI Imm Office - Some strange requirements in their Requirements overview for a 1-year extension of stay for reason of MARRIAGE

[Red Phoenix]

A friend of mine recently entered Thailand on a 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage (he was married earlier in Thailand).

He went to his Nonthaburi Imm Office for info about what was required to apply for the 1-year extension of stay from his 90-day Non Imm O 'marriage' Visa.

Nonthaburi Imm Office provided him with a 1-page document (in Thai language) with their requirements for such application. 

I have attached below both the Thai Version, as well as a Google-translate rendered version in English (as I cannot read Thai).

There are two rather strange requirements in that document.  Hence my question whether these are indeed actual requirements.  Obviously, response from AN members that similarly applied at the Nonthaburi Imm Office for the 1-year extension of their original Non Imm O 'marriage' Visa would be very welcome.

 

#1 - in clause 4, it states that on top of the Kor 2 (original marriage certificate) and Kor 3 (Amphur-statement of still being married), Nonthaburi Imm Office also requires for the first 1-year extension application to provide the 'Certificate of singleness' as provided by the foreigner's Embassy in order to get married in Thailand. 

> Since you cannot get married in Thailand without providing such proof of not being married abroad, why would Nonthaburi Imm Office want the applicant to also provide that document? 

 

#2 - At the bottom of the requirements it states that for the first 1-year extension application, that the applicant has to be accompanied by a NEIGHBOUR as a witness, and that the neighbour has to bring a copy of his Thai ID-card as well as a copy of his House-book (the latter probably to prove that he is indeed a neighbour).

> It's the first time that I come across such requirement, and of course it would save Immigration the effort of having to talk with a neighbour when doing a home-visit to the applicant during the 'under consideration period'. 

 

Experience from Nonthaburi applicants for such first time 1-year 'marriage' extension would be appreciated.

 

Note that in clause 4 the english Google-translate machine translation did incorrectly render the Thai word for TWO as "6",  So that requirement does not state that the +400.000 THB needs to have been kept on the applicants personal Thai bank-account for 6 months at the moment of applicatin for the extension, but should be read as 2 months as in the original Thai document.  

[lordgrinz]

As far as marriage (circa summer 2014) at Nonthaburi, we did the ceremony here in Thailand, but actually did our official Marriage in the USA 3 months later. So I had a US Marriage certificate that I brought here from my local USA town clerks office, I then had that translated and officially approved (Stamp/Signature) at the MFA (Ministry of Foreign Affairs). My wife then went to her Amphur to have the KR22 created (not sure of all the paperwork she brought for that - she did it without me), and officially changed her surname also. One more step was that I had to go to the US Embassy and write an affidavit declaring that we were married in the US, which also had to be approved (Stamp/Signature) at the MFA. Every year we just use copies of these documents, and have never been asked to update the KR22.

 

Marriage Proof (My situation):

KR22

US Marriage Certificate

US Marriage Certificate Translated - (MFA stamped)

US Embassy Affidavit of Marriage - (MFA Stamped)

C5?- Wifes surname change

 

The Witness part, we had two neighbors issue the written and signed paperwork. They did not come with us, but they were available for the Nonthaburi IO when they came to inspect our living arrangement (First Extension only), so they verified the witnesses at that point.

 

Keep in mind, this may have all changed now, because Immigration could ask for more nowadays, who knows. I also went the extra step just in case they ever needed more definitive verification of marriage, I did the whole Apostle route, which is time consuming and laborious, so I wouldn't recommended it unless required (though it is definitive proof  - good backup). 

[Red Phoenix]

1 minute ago, lordgrinz said:

As far as marriage (circa summer 2014) at Nonthaburi, we did the ceremony here in Thailand, but actually did our official Marriage in the USA 3 months later. So I had a US Marriage certificate that I brought here from my local USA town clerks office, I then had that translated and officially approved (Stamp/Signature) at the MFA (Ministry of Foreign Affairs). My wife then went to her Amphur to have the KR22 created (not sure of all the paperwork she brought for that - she did it without me), and officially changed her surname also. One more step was that I had to go to the US Embassy and write an affidavit declaring that we were married in the US, which also had to be approved (Stamp/Signature) at the MFA. Every year we just use copies of these documents, and have never been asked to update the KR22.

 

Marriage Proof (My situation):

KR22

US Marriage Certificate

US Marriage Certificate Translated - (MFA stamped)

US Embassy Affidavit of Marriage - (MFA Stamped)

C5?- Wifes surname change

 

The Witness part, we had two neighbors issue the written and signed paperwork. They did not come with us, but they were available for the Nonthaburi IO when they came to inspect our living arrangement (First Extension only), so they verified the witnesses at that point.

 

Keep in mind, this may have all changed now, because Immigration could ask for more nowadays, who knows. I also went the extra step just in case they ever needed more definitive verification of marriage, I did the whole Apostle route, which is time consuming and laborious, so I wouldn't recommended it unless required (though it is definitive proof  - good backup). 

Thanks for sharing your experience. 

Looks like the 'witness' requirement has changed since you applied first time back in 2014.   

 

[DrJack54]

The last post in this thread (Tonray) refers to having a witness come to immigration office. 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1245632-nonthaburi-immigration-hard-cases/

[lordgrinz]

13 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Thanks for sharing your experience. 

Looks like the 'witness' requirement has changed since you applied first time back in 2014.   

 

You could have the wife talk to them about bringing the Signed Forms, copies of Blue Books, and copies of ID's. Then see if they would do that verification at the home visit, worth at least asking them.

[circa02]

The witness has to sign the statement the IO writes - when the IO interviews you and your wife - how long you know each other? what's your job etc..? how did you meet blah blah, the IO fills in a form, the witness is then pulled to the counter to sign that too.  I doubt they'll let you not bring one

 

The witness then signs another statement when they come to visit you, it was a different group of people though and it seems like a different set of questions, how long he lived her? they live together? and so on...  Sign again..

 

You can always ask, but I suspect the answer will be 'can not'

[Red Phoenix]

5 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The last post in this thread (Tonray) refers to having a witness come to immigration office. 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1245632-nonthaburi-immigration-hard-cases/

Thanks, for posting that link. And it seems that Nonthaburi Imm Office indeed requires you to bring a neighbour as witness with you, when applying for the 1-year extension. 

According to their requirements document, that is only required for very first extension application.  But Tonray indicated that the person he knows brings his neighbour every year for the witnessing (and pays him for the inconvenience).  Something for my friend to enquire about when doing his initial application...

[lordgrinz]

1 minute ago, Red Phoenix said:

Thanks, for posting that link. And it seems that Nonthaburi Imm Office indeed requires you to bring a neighbour as witness with you, when applying for the 1-year extension. 

According to their requirements document, that is only required for very first extension application.  But Tonray indicated that the person he knows brings his neighbour every year for the witnessing (and pays him for the inconvenience).  Something for my friend to enquire about when doing his initial application...

I don't bring any witnesses every year, just my wife ???? 

 

[ThaiFelix]

Not Nonthaburi but another office, both requirements normal however only the first year did we need witness/neighbour.  The still married doc from amphur required every year and dated within 2 days.

[Red Phoenix]

6 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Not Nonthaburi but another office, both requirements normal however only the first year did we need witness/neighbour.  The still married doc from amphur required every year and dated within 2 days.

Thanks for response.

#2 - And it seems the attendance by a witness/neighbour during first time of Application for the 1-year extension of stay for reason of MARRIAGE, is indeed required by some Imm Offices (luckily a minority).

#1 - But the requirement to ALSO provide the 'Certificate of singleness' when applying first time for such 1-year extension, is on top of the Amphur-generated and up-dated 'Still married statement' (Kor-Ror 3) that needs to be provided with every extension application.

So I am still puzzled by that 'Singleness certificate' requirement because:

> Since you cannot get married in Thailand without providing such proof of not being married abroad (the 'Certificate of singleness'), why would Nonthaburi Imm Office want the applicant to also provide that document, as it dates by definition from before the moment you got married? 

[Lite Beer]

When I did my first marriage extension 20 years ago at Samui they also required Affirmation to Marry from the Embassy.

Plus a witness who was quite happy to go with the promise of a bottle of whisky.

[lordgrinz]

55 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

 

[Joedoebarinio]

#1  Certificate of singleness.

If you have been married before. You need the US equivalent to the decree absolute.

the neighbor issue. I asked the village head person to come to our house during the site visit. 

[circa02]

2 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

Thanks for response.

#2 - And it seems the attendance by a witness/neighbour during first time of Application for the 1-year extension of stay for reason of MARRIAGE, is indeed required by some Imm Offices (luckily a minority).

#1 - But the requirement to ALSO provide the 'Certificate of singleness' when applying first time for such 1-year extension, is on top of the Amphur-generated and up-dated 'Still married statement' (Kor-Ror 3) that needs to be provided with every extension application.

So I am still puzzled by that 'Singleness certificate' requirement because:

> Since you cannot get married in Thailand without providing such proof of not being married abroad (the 'Certificate of singleness'), why would Nonthaburi Imm Office want the applicant to also provide that document, as it dates by definition from before the moment you got married? 

How would you even get this without committing fraud if you've also registered your marriage in your home country? Unless they mean a copy of the original one you used to do the Thai marriage in the first place?

[Kalasin Jo]

Not done one for a while but on first application Sakon Nakhon IO did require we take along a neighbour with their ID card and blue book. They also wanted a written statement from the village chief with a copy of his ID card. There was then a few days later the home visit. Now I am under the Kalasin IO, which didn't exist back then but never done a marriage extension there.

[foreverlomsak]

On 9/25/2023 at 9:27 AM, Red Phoenix said:

> Since you cannot get married in Thailand without providing such proof of not being married abroad, why would Nonthaburi Imm Office want the applicant to also provide that document? 

Think it was my 2nd renewal, at Chiang Khan (previous one was Nong Khai) I was asked for it. The local Ampoe office had misfiled it and therefore could not provide a copy. Effectively I was told to move to Retirement or ....., as they could not issue marriage extension without it.

 

On 9/25/2023 at 9:27 AM, Red Phoenix said:

> It's the first time that I come across such requirement, and of course it would save Immigration the effort of having to talk with a neighbour when doing a home-visit to the applicant during the 'under consideration period'. 

Not the first I've hear of, my friend had to provide 2 witnesses on application.

The village head and a different 2 witnesses for the home visit.

[circa02]

10 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

Think it was my 2nd renewal, at Chiang Khan (previous one was Nong Khai) I was asked for it. The local Ampoe office had misfiled it and therefore could not provide a copy. Effectively I was told to move to Retirement or ....., as they could not issue marriage extension without it.

 

Not the first I've hear of, my friend had to provide 2 witnesses on application.

The village head and a different 2 witnesses for the home visit.

That's bloody ridiculous, another option is the translation company you used for the MFA might have a copy, did you find a way out of it in the end?

[foreverlomsak]

1 hour ago, circa02 said:

That's bloody ridiculous, another option is the translation company you used for the MFA might have a copy, did you find a way out of it in the end?

They told me when I got it they don't keep records long term, could have tried another office but with my father, wife and 2 little kid's in tow went Retirement with 800k in bank for ease.

[Nonthaburi Boy]

This may be too late for the OP’s friend but perhaps not for someone else. The answers for Nonthaburi are (for now) these.

 

1) I understand this is a ‘helpful guide’ rather than an actual list. They shouldn’t need the one you ask about. A Kor Ror 2 or Kor Ror 22, plus marriage certificate and MOF-certified translation (if overseas marriage) are sufficient as evidence of marriage. Having said that, a friend of a friend from a developing world country was actually asked to provide this for his initial extension in Bangkok, so it’s not unique. Perhaps they sometimes ask for this, but it is certainly not something they always insist on (or even ask about in our case). Personally, I think they mean the one used to register the Thai marriage but I don’t know. Same with a similar, weird item on their documentation list for the non-O based on marriage conversion. I asked them about this and was told what I had was enough - they preferred that to saying that an item on the list was not needed and didn’t even make sense.

 

2) This is what I was told after my wife and I specifically asked our IO in tandem with big “that’s not what we were told before” eyes … so in that context what else could they reply? Still, it seems to be the case.

 

First time (90 day conversion to non-O or first extension of a 90-day from overseas) neighbour needs to come with you and bring ID card and house registration. Neighbour will be interviewed separately. There might (or not) be a home visit if they are extending by a year on first visit - outside my experience.

 

For second extension: Neighbour should come but does not need to do so. If neighbour does not come they will do a home visit, which two neighbours should attend with copies of ID card and house registration. The impression was that they’d strongly prefer the neighbour come  and that maybe a home visit would not have been 100% required if they did (no straight answer on that). But we were previously told (twice) that neighbour did not need to attend this second time, then it was like surprise that the neighbour was not there (different officers but also the same front desk people). Anyway, if doing again I would take the neighbour second time and (best case) no home visit or (worst case) it’s not serious if neighbour is not around for home visit. Fortunately, we’ve been here for 25 years (and my wife since birth) so we have a lot of neighbours to choose from and most are now retired or semi-retired. Others may not have such helpful and available neighbours.

 

When we previously asked about the requirements for this time (first one-year extension, second visit), no mention was made of home visits. Whether that was a careless IO or requirements have actually changed (or reverted since this is the same as lord grinz describes from many years ago) I don’t know.

 

We have decided we will visit the office and check the latest requirements close to next extension date. After 10 am and after 2 pm are good times to do this as the information staff generally have time then. As done admirably by the OP it is important to be very specific about the circumstances (history, current status and what is being applied for) and to clearly mention that you have the list, have already prepared all other documents and are just clarifying about this one thing. 

[Nonthaburi Boy]

Okay, according to the home visit officers Nonthaburi will do a home visit for every extension and the only change in requirements is that a single neighbour will suffice from now on. That doesn’t necessarily mean they always will do the visit if you take a neighbour to immigration, but since our neighbours were there it’s no longer an option for us… and there was no doubt for these guys that this was the current procedure.