‘No turning back’: how the Ukraine war has profoundly changed the EU

[candide]

47 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Sorry, I forgot. Von Der Leyen was defence minister for Germany. She oversaw arming the Wermacht with broomsticks. Awesome!

I remember that. It was funny!

As to Von Der Leyen she's been in this job for a bit more than one year and cannot be held responsible for faulty guns bought 5 years before. Actually she was the one who had the wehrmacht audited and started to improve this situation.

Probably not the best minister but still better than the previous one.

 

Coming back to your initial comment, how many leaders ex Sunak or Macron had a military experience?

Edited October 5, 2023 by candide

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, candide said:

I remember that. It was funny!

As to Von Der Leyen she's been in this job for a bit more than one year and cannot be held responsible for faulty guns bought 5 years before. Actually she was the one who had the wehrmacht audited and started to improve this situation.

Probably not the best minister but still better than the previous one.

 

Coming back to your initial comment, how many leaders ex Sunak or Macron had a military experience?

Funny? Right.

 

Von Der Leyen was German defence minister for more than five years and was widely criticized by her own colleagues and others, until her Mutti intervened and she appeared in Brussels with a trail of golden stars landing softly on the blue carpet behind her.

 

I don't know how many "leaders" have military experience - very few these days I suppose. But this Danish EU Commissioner (for Competition??) is not showing any kind of leadership with these irresponsible remarks. It's the EU trying for more power and influence, as usual.   

[candide]

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Funny? Right.

 

Von Der Leyen was German defence minister for more than five years and was widely criticized by her own colleagues and others, until her Mutti intervened and she appeared in Brussels with a trail of golden stars landing softly on the blue carpet behind her.

 

I don't know how many "leaders" have military experience - very few these days I suppose. But this Danish EU Commissioner (for Competition??) is not showing any kind of leadership with these irresponsible remarks. It's the EU trying for more power and influence, as usual.   

She was not appreciated, I don't deny it. However she cannot be held responsible for the funny story you mentioned. Her predecessors were.

 

You claim It's irresponsible for EU commissioners to make such declarations? What would be irresponsible would be to let Putin believe that he may have a chance to win because of decreasing Western support (which is exactly what the MAGA right-wing is doing in the U.S)., and thus encourage him to go on.

[RayC]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Uttering phrases like "no turning back" and "stay supportive of Ukraine until the war is won and Ukraine has been rebuilt, and become a member of the EU" is hardly likely to get Putin to the negotiating table. This war could go on for several more years without negotiations IMO.

Alternatively, another interpretation is that such remarks show that the EU will offer continuing support to Ukraine and that it will be in Putin's best interests to negotiate.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I don't know how many "leaders" have military experience - very few these days I suppose. But this Danish EU Commissioner (for Competition??) is not showing any kind of leadership with these irresponsible remarks. It's the EU trying for more power and influence, as usual.   

Definitely a case of overreach. The EU is clearly trying to impose its tyrannical rule on the Ukrainians. Membership in the EU is extremely unpopular in Ukraine. At least in the Ukraine located in Oppositeworld.

[Thorgal]

On 10/3/2023 at 3:30 AM, heybruce said:

Here's how you are supposed to do it:

 

"The conflict in eastern Ukraine began in April 2014 with low-level fighting between the Ukrainian military and Russian-backed separatist rebels who seized some towns in predominantly Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine. It has since escalated to outright-if-undeclared war between Russia and Ukraine.

Separatist rebels began popping up in eastern Ukraine shortly after Russia had invaded and annexed Crimea, where supposed Crimean separatists actually turned out to be unmarked Russian special forces."  https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know

 

Still looks like Russia is the aggressor.

Quote from source :

 

"Some explanatory journalism sincerely attempts to put complicated matters of politics or policy or science into terms that readers who aren't that smart or haven't been paying much attention can understand."

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2014/05/12/why-do-so-many-journalists-hate-vox/?sh=3f6dabe7c3c4

[Thorgal]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Alternatively, another interpretation is that such remarks show that the EU will offer continuing support to Ukraine and that it will be in Putin's best interests to negotiate.

Putin will start negotiating with Ukraine after demilitarization and after de-Nazification of the region. These Russians didn't give up in the Great Patriotic War for the same reasons...

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, Thorgal said:

Putin will start negotiating with Ukraine after demilitarization and after de-Nazification of the region. These Russians didn't give up in the Great Patriotic War for the same reasons...

What is wrong with you?

 

Russia has no right to do anything to Ukraine. Only Nazis would try that.

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, Thorgal said:

Putin will start negotiating with Ukraine after demilitarization and after de-Nazification of the region. These Russians didn't give up in the Great Patriotic War for the same reasons...

Actually, you make an excellent point. Neo-Nazi groups like Rusich that are in their army providing convincing evidence that that denazification is needed...in Russia

 

Who Are The Neo-Nazis Fighting For Russia In Ukraine?

Along with members of the Russian Imperial Movement, a white supremacist group that was designated a "global terrorist" organization by the United States two years ago, Rusich is one of several right-wing groups that are actively fighting in Ukraine, in conjunction with Russia’s regular armed forces or allied separatist units.

According to a confidential report by Germany’s Federal Intelligence Service, which was obtained by Der Spiegel and excerpted on May 22, numerous Russian right-wing extremists and neo-Nazis are fighting in Ukraine.

German analysts wrote that the fact that Russian military and political leaders have welcomed neo-Nazi groups undermines the claim by Putin and his government that one of the principal motives behind the invasion is the desire to “de-Nazify” Ukraine, Spiegel said.

https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-neo-nazis-fighting-ukraine/31871760.html

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, RayC said:

I and many others will hope that Ukraine breaks through asap. 

 

Failing that, we had best hope that your confidence that the EU will stop supporting Ukraine is misplaced. At the moment, EU support is holding firm.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eus-borrell-kyiv-says-bloc-is-preparing-long-term-security-pledges-2023-10-01/

I'm not expecting more EU governments to stop supporting Ukraine any time soon, but a year is a very long time in politics, and especially when your country is broke.

Without more than stalemate against Russia, IMO it will become politically untenable for EU countries to continue throwing money at Ukraine and hoping something happens.

[Thorgal]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

What is wrong with you?

 

Russia has no right to do anything to Ukraine. Only Nazis would try that.

Check out the CV of Dmytro Yarosh (Ukrainian) and one of the founding fathers of the Azov and Eidar neo-Nazi battalions that have been merged into the regular Ukrainian army with the blessings of Viktoria Nuland.

 

Those Ukrainian neo-Nazi/Bandera affiliated troops can be spotted with the original SS patches/tattoos of SS Galicia (Ukrainian unit) and SS Das Reich (German unit). Those 2 SS divisions did some serious genocides in the USSR (Ukraine included) during WW2.

 

That's what Putin today calls with de-Nazification...

 

[Danderman123]

10 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Check out the CV of Dmytro Yarosh (Ukrainian) and one of the founding fathers of the Azov and Eidar neo-Nazi battalions that have been merged into the regular Ukrainian army with the blessings of Viktoria Nuland.

 

Those Ukrainian neo-Nazi/Bandera affiliated troops can be spotted with the original SS patches/tattoos of SS Galicia (Ukrainian unit) and SS Das Reich (German unit). Those 2 SS divisions did some serious genocides in the USSR (Ukraine included) during WW2.

 

That's what Putin today calls with de-Nazification...

 

there are individual Nazis on the Russian side, as well.

 

You have been fooled by Russian propaganda that decries a nation of 44 million because of a handful of nutballs. You are smarter than that. You know that within any grouping of millions of people, you are going to find some nutjobs.

 

Look at Trump's army of MAGiots, there are some nutjobs in there, no reason to try to kill them all.

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Check out the CV of Dmytro Yarosh (Ukrainian) and one of the founding fathers of the Azov and Eidar neo-Nazi battalions that have been merged into the regular Ukrainian army with the blessings of Viktoria Nuland.

 

Those Ukrainian neo-Nazi/Bandera affiliated troops can be spotted with the original SS patches/tattoos of SS Galicia (Ukrainian unit) and SS Das Reich (German unit). Those 2 SS divisions did some serious genocides in the USSR (Ukraine included) during WW2.

 

That's what Putin today calls with de-Nazification...

 

Nah, Putin's just out to murder indiscriminately, his latest war crime just a few hours ago....................

 

Russian airstrike kills 51 at a funeral in Ukraine

A Russian attack on the village of Hroza, south-east of Kharkiv, has killed at least 51 people, including an eight-year-old boy, Ukraine says.

Villagers were attending a wake for a local resident when a missile struck at 15:15 local time (13:15 BST).

Ukraine's defence ministry said there were no military targets in the area - only civilians.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67022615

 

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1709940269796430164

 

[nauseus]

13 hours ago, candide said:

She was not appreciated, I don't deny it. However she cannot be held responsible for the funny story you mentioned. Her predecessors were.

 

You claim It's irresponsible for EU commissioners to make such declarations? What would be irresponsible would be to let Putin believe that he may have a chance to win because of decreasing Western support (which is exactly what the MAGA right-wing is doing in the U.S)., and thus encourage him to go on.

I expect Putin believes whatever he believes, regardless of what any EU commissioner says. There are better ways to express support for one side without unnecessarily riling the other. There is a slight decrease in Western support and Putin will know that without these comments from the EU, which do not help.  

[heybruce]

12 hours ago, Thorgal said:

Quote from source :

 

"Some explanatory journalism sincerely attempts to put complicated matters of politics or policy or science into terms that readers who aren't that smart or haven't been paying much attention can understand."

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2014/05/12/why-do-so-many-journalists-hate-vox/?sh=3f6dabe7c3c4

My source wasn't Forbes and your source is from a technology writer who wasn't writing about Ukraine.

[heybruce]

12 hours ago, Thorgal said:

Putin will start negotiating with Ukraine after demilitarization and after de-Nazification of the region. These Russians didn't give up in the Great Patriotic War for the same reasons...

Wow!   Just....Wow!

 

How much of the Russian lemonade have you drunk?

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, Thorgal said:

Check out the CV of Dmytro Yarosh (Ukrainian) and one of the founding fathers of the Azov and Eidar neo-Nazi battalions that have been merged into the regular Ukrainian army with the blessings of Viktoria Nuland.

 

Those Ukrainian neo-Nazi/Bandera affiliated troops can be spotted with the original SS patches/tattoos of SS Galicia (Ukrainian unit) and SS Das Reich (German unit). Those 2 SS divisions did some serious genocides in the USSR (Ukraine included) during WW2.

 

That's what Putin today calls with de-Nazification...

 

Ukraine is using every able bodied fighter it can find.

 

Tell us how much influence these people have on Ukraine's government.  Use sources correctly, not like the one you used above.

[Seppius]

5 hours ago, Thorgal said:

Check out the CV of Dmytro Yarosh (Ukrainian) and one of the founding fathers of the Azov and Eidar neo-Nazi battalions that have been merged into the regular Ukrainian army with the blessings of Viktoria Nuland.

 

Those Ukrainian neo-Nazi/Bandera affiliated troops can be spotted with the original SS patches/tattoos of SS Galicia (Ukrainian unit) and SS Das Reich (German unit). Those 2 SS divisions did some serious genocides in the USSR (Ukraine included) during WW2.

 

That's what Putin today calls with de-Nazification...

 

So your Putin murders 51 people in a café, kidnaps children and flattens cities, is this to catch a few neo-Nazi? Very 21st Century

 

At least Ukraine targeting military positions, support Putin all you want, but history will prove the Ukrainians on the right side, if he succeeds here, next would be the "Nazis" in the Baltic States, expansion is what Putin wants in his little deluded mind, even his biggest ally China is telling him to stop

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, Seppius said:

even his biggest ally China is telling him to stop

link?

[Seppius]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKMPOJwtCF0

 

OK, not in so many words, but they're certainly not supporting Putin, warning him about nuke threats

Edited October 6, 2023 by Seppius

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Seppius said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKMPOJwtCF0

Are you kidding me? I was expecting some actual Chinese officials making an official statement, not a couple of very NOT Chinese people pontificating about it.

[Seppius]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you kidding me? I was expecting some actual Chinese officials making an official statement, not a couple of very NOT Chinese people pontificating about it.

I am sure you are well aware of what China says over the war

[RayC]

7 hours ago, Thorgal said:

Check out the CV of Dmytro Yarosh (Ukrainian) and one of the founding fathers of the Azov and Eidar neo-Nazi battalions that have been merged into the regular Ukrainian army with the blessings of Viktoria Nuland.

 

Those Ukrainian neo-Nazi/Bandera affiliated troops can be spotted with the original SS patches/tattoos of SS Galicia (Ukrainian unit) and SS Das Reich (German unit). Those 2 SS divisions did some serious genocides in the USSR (Ukraine included) during WW2.

 

That's what Putin today calls with de-Nazification...

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/the-facts-on-de-nazifying-ukraine/

 

A long piece but perhaps the key statement is: "To the best of my knowledge, neo-nazis are not present in Zelensky's government". Hardly a surprise given Zelensky's own Jewish heritage.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Seppius said:

I am sure you are well aware of what China says over the war

The Chinese are a pragmatic race, so what comes out of their mouths does not mean they believe it. IMO they will say whatever they think will be of benefit to to themselves.

[Seppius]

It was not a stray missile, it was a target, Putin is a bastard, and I hope his supporters on here are ready when he drops the nuke, because he is crazy enough

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12601107/Putins-missiles-kill-ten-year-old-boy-latest-blitz-day-51-died-Ukraine-wars-deadliest-strike-Vladimir-warned-Satan-2-nukes-ready-use.html

[Seppius]

20 hours ago, Thorgal said:

Putin will start negotiating with Ukraine after demilitarization and after de-Nazification of the region. These Russians didn't give up in the Great Patriotic War for the same reasons...

Watch this and feel proud support Putin

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O9xyNXJODk

[Thorgal]

5 hours ago, Seppius said:

Watch this and feel proud support Putin

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O9xyNXJODk

There was a military target at the Reikartz hotel some +/-100m of the house of the family.

 

The hotel in Kharkov (Sadovaya street nr. 4) was known to be a meeting point for the foreign/international mercenaries.

 

It's a wrong strategy to mix your military personnel into civil and dense populated urban places in large cities.

The house of the family wasn't directly hit by the Iskandr missile.

 

Ukrainian air defense system did quite some collateral damage in other places (Poland, Kiev, etc).

 

You always have fragments of the missiles at the impact.

 

What if these missiles have been supplied by EU, UK or US?

 

[heybruce]

59 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

There was a military target at the Reikartz hotel some +/-100m of the house of the family.

 

The hotel in Kharkov (Sadovaya street nr. 4) was known to be a meeting point for the foreign/international mercenaries.

 

It's a wrong strategy to mix your military personnel into civil and dense populated urban places in large cities.

The house of the family wasn't directly hit by the Iskandr missile.

 

Ukrainian air defense system did quite some collateral damage in other places (Poland, Kiev, etc).

 

You always have fragments of the missiles at the impact.

 

What if these missiles have been supplied by EU, UK or US?

 

Once again, claims without sources.

[Thorgal]

59 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Once again, claims without sources.

I used the link above from the same poster (@ Seppius) of The Dailymail 

 

I also used Googlemaps+Google Earth & common sense.

 

Look at the impact of the damaged building of the family + size of the Iskandr missiles, I conclude (without link) that this type of missile (minimal 800 kg) would have obliterated (+50 meters) the whole (neighboring) building(s), included the 1st & 2nd level.

 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PFZcigcB1og

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Thorgal

[placeholder]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The Chinese are a pragmatic race, so what comes out of their mouths does not mean they believe it. IMO they will say whatever they think will be of benefit to to themselves.

"The Chinese are a pragmatic race..." What century are you living in? Certainly not the current one.