ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[transam]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

What percentage of the 2+ million people living in Gaza were actually involved?  How many of the pre-teen kids that are currently being bombed took part?  How many of the 75+ year old Gazans?

 

The problem with collective punishment is that you just can't kill people fast enough.  Because for every innocent you kill, you create a dozen new enemies.

 

Go after Hamas.  Kill every single one that participated.  But what's the hurry?  They're not going anywhere.

 

 

Go talk to their rulers who started it...............????

[Celsius]

[impulse]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Even the Al Jazeera front person remarked that it was unusual that biden had not called for restraint. IMO netanyahu will have received an unspoken message that they can go as far as they like without restraint.

 

Just mentioned that 140 children have been killed by the israelis in Gaza.

American citizens were killed and abducted by Hamas. Biden is the US President.

Does anybody think this can't get worse, and even for the Israelis?  

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by impulse

[Morch]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

From the bombing campaign ( without any calls for restraint by the americans ) I suspect that the intention is to remove any possibility of continued occupation of Gaza.

Where the 2 million+ Gazans will go is unknown.

 

Netanyahu has stated that the current bombing is "just the beginning" and "every corner will be attacked".

( excuse me if I didn't get the quotes 100% correct )

Are you an expert on such matters? Or just an expert of airing suspicions? Anyone with a little experience in analyzing airstrikes can figure out what they are doing, and why.

 

Two goals -

 

(a) set conditions for a ground maneuver.

(b) shock and awe.

 

The former centers on removing possible defense vantage points, and clearing possible routs.

The latter is pointless if there's no one left to shock and awe.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Take it back a step further - why don't the Israeli's put a stop to stealing Palestinian land?

Why don't you stop using loaded statements? Or how about not picking arbitrary points of entry for discussion?

[Morch]

6 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

The difference is the era in which the events are occurring.

Humanity has evolved and what was once acceptable is no longer.

 

Post WW2 saw the end of overt colonialism everywhere except.....

 

Hamas militants behead children.

Poster claims 'Humanity has evolved'.

[Morch]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just watched John Kirby ( W H spokesman ) trying to waffle his way out of answering all the tough questions asked by Al Jazeera interviewer.

Just the usual "we support the israelis" and "israelis are the victims".

Complete waste of time asking him anything.

And on here, we have @thaibeachlovers waffling his way out of answering questions, responding to comments, and mostly 'ignoring' posters he can deal with. That while constantly 'broadcasting' AlJazeera.

 

Just the usual 'support the Palestinians', 'Israel bad', 'Gazans are victims'.

 

Complete waste of time.

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Hamas militants behead children.

Poster claims 'Humanity has evolved'.

His comment projects racism.

 

Presumably more "European" Israel held to a higher moral standard than Arabs.

Don't expect civilized behavior from them of course. They're Arabs.

 

Racist double standard personified.

[Morch]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Notice that for certain posters that it's always the Palestinians fault as the peace loving israelis never do anything like stealing land, building illegal settlements on Palestinian land, attacking unarmed Palestinians and destroying their houses and olive trees, raiding them in the middle of the night and killing their children. So when the Palestinians strike back, they actually have no reason to do so as the peace loving israelis only want the best for Palestinians.

Sure. No posters (including yourself) trying to constantly present the Palestinians as angels, victims and so on. Downplaying any 'bad behavior', minimizing atrocities.

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, Celsius said:

Queers for Palestine can kiss my grits.  Imagine what the Hamas terrorists would do with that lot. Everyone knows they love queers.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Jingthing

[Neeranam]

45 minutes ago, novacova said:

Careful, there’s idiots here, brainwashed by antisemitic propaganda guised as neutral bystanders rationalizing and justifying their erroneous positions.

No idea why you post nonsense like this. 

 

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Queers for Palestine can eat my grits.  Imagine what the Hamas terrorists would do with that lot.

 

????

[Morch]

6 hours ago, Thorgal said:

Only Israeli newspaper Haaretz dares to say that the Israeli government is at the origin of this attack.

 

US and EU representatives will indeed say that Israel is in a plot of Iran, antisemitism, etc...

Telling otherwise is political suicide.

Not even remotely true. While 'Haaretz' is more affiliated with such views, similar columns, opinion pieces and op-eds appeared in recent days on other major venues. Many calls for Netanyahu to accept responsivity, resign. Obviously, other view points aired as well.

 

 

[norfolkandchance]

'They sowed the wind and now they are going to reap the whirlwind'

Arthur 'Bomber Harris.

 

Dresden

[Morch]

6 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Extremist Palestinians want Israel not to exist at all.

Do extremist Israeli's want Palestine not to exist at all?

 

Israel was on the path to peace and then they murdered their own Prime Minister.

There is no official Israeli government policy calling for a total annihilation of the Palestinians. There is not even an official Israeli government policy to the effect that the PA be dismantled. Hamas Charter, and numerous comments by Hamas leadership clarify that their policy is set.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

All of it, every murder committed by Hamas is a  crime against humanity that combined justly evoke comparisons with the evils of the holocaust.

 

The simple reality is that it all will continue until Israel ends its occupation of Palestine.

Ah, so had the Allies shown more compassion toward Germany....? Nah, that couldn't have been what you implied.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

48 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ah the old "any atrocity is acceptable if it's israel doing it" scenario.

Not only do you not try and hide your antisemitism, you wear it like some badge of honour …. astonishing

[Morch]

4 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Totally correct but Israeli governments have blockaded  Gaza since 2007 

Why was the Gaza Strip blockaded? Just to spite? Out of the blue? No context?

And, for double points, what other neighboring country maintains the same blockade?

[novacova]

23 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

No idea why you post nonsense like this. 

 

Your nonsense reposted and clarified. 
 

The reinforcement of your position has been solidified with clear bias against a race or people who have been bullied by their hateful neighbors and those abroad. Your position is clear and duly noted, as with the enemies of the Israeli state which, the enemies which is the epitome of hate on this planet. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by novacova

[Eloquent pilgrim]

20 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

No idea why you post nonsense like this. 

 

Says the man that has posted nothing but antisemitic nonsense from the start of the thread; and has been continually trying to justify the atrocities of Hamas  ….. slaughtering 40 little babies, and you’re still justifying their actions. You disgust me.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Occupation - a continued presence outside of your sovereign borders with an unopposed ability to exercise indiscriminate power over people who are not citizens of your country.

 

Your second paragraph is nonsense, crap made up by Israeli apologists looking to justify their idiotic proclamations of "Israel's right to exist" and "Israel has a right to defend itself".

 

It is not Israel's existence that is in question, it is Palestine's.

'Sovereign' how? When was there any Palestinian 'Sovereignty'? When did they officially claim one?

 

Your definition of 'occupation' is not in line with Hamas's river-to-the-sea view.

 

Nothing stopped the Palestinians from accepting independence, sovereignty and all the rest back in 1947.

Nothing stopped the Palestinians from announcing independence, sovereignty and all the rest between 1948 and 1967.

Nothing stopped the Palestinians from negotiating for independence, sovereignty and all the rest post-1967.

 

Took their time, embraced rejectionism, and conditions shifted.

The answer - blame everyone else.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

There is no excuse for inhumanity by any of the protagonists, no parties involved in the crisis have any right to peace while they carry on fighting each other in this way. I have no sympathy for either side, they are both barbaric excuses for human beings.

 

 

You have 'no sympathy for either side', but plenty of criticism reserved for one side.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Egypt colludes to keep Gazans trapped in the enclave, but I thought you would have known that.

 

A growing population indeed, and they will all grow up wanting to kill israelis if something doesn't happen to let them have freedom, like you enjoy.

And yet on a previous post, you alleged Israel is the one preventing Gazans from fleeing through the Egyptian border pass. Get your nonsense comments in order, sir.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and the israeli apologists refuse to acknowledge the root cause that created Hamas in the first place.

How would you feel if you were born into a prison camp and denied freedom? Would you be happy to accept your prisoner status, or would you fight back any way you could?

Maybe. Would you behead a child, though?

[MrMojoRisin]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

Your 'knowledge' is, as usual, lacking. That what happens when you rely on a single biased news source.

 

The Palestinians had an airport in Gaza. It's been shut down for years. Two guesses why.

 

Considering Hamas manages to smuggle in, or divert legally imported materials to construct rockets etc. - what do you think would happen if there was a port under their control?

In 2001 Israeli warplanes bombed a runway in response to a Palestinian terror attack that killed four soldiers, and badly damaged several of the buildings.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Isreal gets around $12 billion a year in aid from the US, and turns around and spends around $2 billion of it lobbying the US Senate and Congress. They are the largest lobbyist on the planet. The US has no independence. Obama is the only president who has truly stood up to their machine. 

Israel gets $3 billion in military aid annually. These are funds almost exclusively granted as a coupon to but US arms. Essentially, the money goes back to US manufacturers. Some of the most active lobbyists for this are Congressmen and Senators from relevant states and counties. Obama actually was one of the more supportive Presidents, in this regard, enlarging the aid packet some and sealing it off long term. Don't let reality confuse you, though.

[MrMojoRisin]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

Israel gets $3 billion in military aid annually. These are funds almost exclusively granted as a coupon to but US arms. Essentially, the money goes back to US manufacturers. Some of the most active lobbyists for this are Congressmen and Senators from relevant states and counties. Obama actually was one of the more supportive Presidents, in this regard, enlarging the aid packet some and sealing it off long term. Don't let reality confuse you, though.

The US should give $3 billion in military aid to the Palestinians too, you know, in the interest of making it a fair fight.

 

If the Palestinians had access to modern military grade weaponry they’d I doubt they’d attack festivals and families but instead Israeli military targets.

[MrMojoRisin]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

Maybe. Would you behead a child, though?

You’d have to walk a mile in their shoes before you could answer such a question. The depths of human depravity are present in all of us, given the right mix of circumstances.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

What percentage of the 2+ million people living in Gaza were actually involved?  How many of the pre-teen kids that are currently being bombed took part?  How many of the 75+ year old Gazans?

 

The problem with collective punishment is that you just can't kill people fast enough.  Because for every innocent you kill, you create a dozen new enemies.

 

Go after Hamas.  Kill every single one that participated.  But what's the hurry?  They're not going anywhere.

 

 

How do you suggest doing this?

[Morch]

54 minutes ago, impulse said:

Does anybody think this can't get worse, and even for the Israelis?  

 

Things can always become worse. Is the solution to do nothing, then?