Whats the Protocol if denied entry.

[Parker2100]

21 hours ago, norfolkandchance said:

Do you see a problem entering. If so don't come.

Even if you think you are doing everything correctly, you never really know, in Thailand, anymore.

 

 

[StayinThailand2much]

20 hours ago, GypsyT said:

I noticed increased checking regarding return ticket from EU by Thai Airline. They had two check points before boarding.

Thai Airways has made things difficult, despite VFE availability for at least the past seven years.

[rumak]

I always prepare ahead .....

[Tod Daniels]

I posted this on a f/b page but it goes over exactly what the O/P is asking

More than a few people (especially ones with extensive entry/stay histories entering at Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang) have been denied entry.

 

First off denial of entry is NOT being deported. You have to be stamped IN to thailand to get deported. On a denial of entry your attempt to ENTER thailand was denied (you didn't even get stamped in ).

 

There's some confusion how it works.. When you're denied entry the OFFICER denying you entry has the choice to do one of three things;

1 - Send you back to where you just flew in from

2 - Send you back to any country you can buy a ticket for

OR

3 - Send you back to the country of passport origin. <- not all that common but can happen

 

One thing I want to let people know is they're going to hand you a form all in thai that they want you to sign. My advice is do NOT sign it . There is nothing bad that happens if you don't sign it (no matter how much they pressure you to). If you do sign it almost 100% they WILL put a denial of entry stamp in your passport but if you don't sign it, people are reporting they don't put the DOE stamp in your passport. Of course it's still in the computer as a denied entry, but it's not visible to someone just thumbing thru your passport looking at your stamp history.

 

One thing that people get wrong often is on a denial of entry YOU are responsible for paying your own way out, the air carrier is not responsible for your fare out.

 

There are holding cells at both Don Mueang & Suvarnabhumi airports where you stay until your flight out. There's wifi, and you can have them get food for you.

 

If you're denied entry at a land border, they just turn you around and send you back from where you just left. The country you just left cancels your exit stamp and you get back in there.

 

Most every case of denial of entry (no matter what they tell you the reason is) gets the same reason code in the passport for why you were denied. Immigration Act Clause 12 subsection 2 - ไม่มีปัจจัยยังชีพตามสมควร = no reasonable means of sustenance <- no proof of funds. They will use this reason EVEN if you showed them 20K baht or the equivalent in cash

 

At land entries IF you can't keep track and try to get a third free entry during the calendar year, you will get denied because of the immigration act clause 12, subsection 1 - ไม่มีวีซ่าเข้าประเทศ = no visa to enter thailand.. and it will say the border you were denied at

 

Long story short denial of entry is not all that bad. I mean it's not good obviously but many many people are denied entry every week in the country. Mostly due to extensive entry/stay historys, history of being here during covid extensions, an ED or Volunteer visa (gotten during covid), foolishly picking the wrong border to try to enter at (AVOID Aranyaprathet/PoiPet) OR just not paying attention to how many free entries they've made by land so far this year.

Also if you have a valid visa in your passport and are denied entry, it does NOT cancel the visa. You are free to use that visa for another entry try some other time or place

 

Almost everyone denied entry just tries to enter again, either at another border, another airport, some get tourist visas from thai consulates and enter by land, and MOST everyone does get it.

 

Hope this was helpful,

[Marky Mark Mark]

21 hours ago, KhunLA said:

@Marky Mark Mark  Curious why you think you would be denied, as do you have something on your 'Imm record' that might cause that ?

 

I doubt an airlines would board you if they thought you wouldn't be admitted, as then they would be responsible for providing your return transport.

i might be classified as a Professional Tourist.................lol.

 

Weird as i equal 5 tourist from the Land of Cola and straws.  All the marketing expense trying to get lower income fellows in while those with Funds are being told you come too much.

[Marky Mark Mark]

1 hour ago, Parker2100 said:

Even if you think you are doing everything correctly, you never really know, in Thailand, anymore.

 

 

I was under the impression reading here that if you get a tourist visa its EZ peasy.  Its the visa on arrivals that were the Immigrations nemesis.

 

So much for that.

[Marky Mark Mark]

19 hours ago, raz0r21 said:

In another thread OP wrote that he has stayed 10 months out of 12 in total, which is usually the time Immigration will start to tell you to have another visa. No time out of the country is frowned upon in my experience, and i strongly suggest you dont play with fire. Get another type of visa, stay out of the country for at least a month, or prepare to roll the dice.

That was my next inquiry.   How long should i stay out between visits.

 

On the post you saw i was out for 6 days.

[Parker2100]

1 minute ago, Marky Mark Mark said:

I was under the impression reading here that if you get a tourist visa its EZ peasy.  Its the visa on arrivals that were the Immigrations nemesis.

 

So much for that.

On the first or second Visa it usually is easy.  After, that "It is like a box of chocolates.  You never know what your gonna get"

 

Even on the first visit, they reserve the discretion to deny entry just because they don't like the way you look, or dress.

 

 

[bbko]

19 minutes ago, Marky Mark Mark said:

That was my next inquiry.   How long should i stay out between visits.

 

On the post you saw i was out for 6 days.

Time to get a real visa.

[KhunLA]

23 minutes ago, Marky Mark Mark said:

I was under the impression reading here that if you get a tourist visa its EZ peasy.  Its the visa on arrivals that were the Immigrations nemesis.

 

So much for that.

It's the ones who 'visit' 10-11-12 months of the year.  So fairly obvious they live here, and either can't meet the financials for long term visa, or don't want to pay taxes/and or, taking a job away from a Thai.  

 

Of course, that is why they have the Imm rules.  Pretty easy for an IO to spot the scammers.

[Maestro]

5 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Thai Airways has made things difficult, despite VFE availability for at least the past seven years.

 

VFE?

 

[raz0r21]

4 hours ago, Marky Mark Mark said:

That was my next inquiry.   How long should i stay out between visits.

 

On the post you saw i was out for 6 days.

At least 1 month. They want to see that you dont live in Thailand on a tourist visa, or work without a permit. If you are worried, prepare evidence of your income from another country.

 

Even with long stays out of Thailand you can still get questioned tho. With your history I would bring every single document possible. Flight out, 20k baht cash, income statement, bank statement, travel plan, paid hotel booking, etc etc. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by raz0r21
Missed the hotel booking part

[BritTim]

8 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

I posted this on a f/b page but it goes over exactly what the O/P is asking

More than a few people (especially ones with extensive entry/stay histories entering at Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang) have been denied entry.

 

First off denial of entry is NOT being deported. You have to be stamped IN to thailand to get deported. On a denial of entry your attempt to ENTER thailand was denied (you didn't even get stamped in ).

 

There's some confusion how it works.. When you're denied entry the OFFICER denying you entry has the choice to do one of three things;

1 - Send you back to where you just flew in from

2 - Send you back to any country you can buy a ticket for

OR

3 - Send you back to the country of passport origin. <- not all that common but can happen

 

One thing I want to let people know is they're going to hand you a form all in thai that they want you to sign. My advice is do NOT sign it . There is nothing bad that happens if you don't sign it (no matter how much they pressure you to). If you do sign it almost 100% they WILL put a denial of entry stamp in your passport but if you don't sign it, people are reporting they don't put the DOE stamp in your passport. Of course it's still in the computer as a denied entry, but it's not visible to someone just thumbing thru your passport looking at your stamp history.

 

One thing that people get wrong often is on a denial of entry YOU are responsible for paying your own way out, the air carrier is not responsible for your fare out.

 

There are holding cells at both Don Mueang & Suvarnabhumi airports where you stay until your flight out. There's wifi, and you can have them get food for you.

 

If you're denied entry at a land border, they just turn you around and send you back from where you just left. The country you just left cancels your exit stamp and you get back in there.

 

Most every case of denial of entry (no matter what they tell you the reason is) gets the same reason code in the passport for why you were denied. Immigration Act Clause 12 subsection 2 - ไม่มีปัจจัยยังชีพตามสมควร = no reasonable means of sustenance <- no proof of funds. They will use this reason EVEN if you showed them 20K baht or the equivalent in cash

 

At land entries IF you can't keep track and try to get a third free entry during the calendar year, you will get denied because of the immigration act clause 12, subsection 1 - ไม่มีวีซ่าเข้าประเทศ = no visa to enter thailand.. and it will say the border you were denied at

 

Long story short denial of entry is not all that bad. I mean it's not good obviously but many many people are denied entry every week in the country. Mostly due to extensive entry/stay historys, history of being here during covid extensions, an ED or Volunteer visa (gotten during covid), foolishly picking the wrong border to try to enter at (AVOID Aranyaprathet/PoiPet) OR just not paying attention to how many free entries they've made by land so far this year.

Also if you have a valid visa in your passport and are denied entry, it does NOT cancel the visa. You are free to use that visa for another entry try some other time or place

 

Almost everyone denied entry just tries to enter again, either at another border, another airport, some get tourist visas from thai consulates and enter by land, and MOST everyone does get it.

 

Hope this was helpful,

Your explanation is incorrect in several respects.

 

Firstly, the Immigration official is not the one who decides where you go when you are denied entry. Responsibility for removing you from Thailand if you are denied entry in every case rests with the airline that brought you to Thailand. Where you are sent is the decision of the airline representative. The IATA guidelines suggest returning you to the last embarkation point if possible. (Sometimes, for visa reasons, that cannot be done.)

 

Your advice on not signing the form in Thai is good. Apart from the lack of a stamp in your passport, it is actually unclear if you are officially denied entry in the Immigration computer.

 

Another point worth noting is that, although the airline will expect to get paid, they must remove you from Thailand whether they are paid or not. This gives you some leverage in discussing with the airline representative where you are sent. You can state that you are happy to pay to be taken to the destination or your choice (somewhere the airline flies, of course) but will dispute liability for the fare if forced to go where you do not want to go. You do not have this card to play if you have paid up tickets on the same airline that they can grab to defray the cost.

[BritTim]

7 hours ago, Marky Mark Mark said:

I was under the impression reading here that if you get a tourist visa its EZ peasy.  Its the visa on arrivals that were the Immigrations nemesis.

 

So much for that.

The biggest risk is with visa exempt entry (or visa on arrival if not eligible for visa exemptions). With a visa, there should not be a problem, but Immigration at both Bangkok airports has historically (albeit infrequently) been known to deny entry to long stay tourists with tourist visas.

[StayinThailand2much]

4 hours ago, Maestro said:

VFE?

Visa exempt 

Edited October 9, 2023 by StayinThailand2much

[sandyf]

On 10/8/2023 at 10:46 AM, KhunLA said:

Working for the airlines, unless things have changed, I'm pretty confident in my statement being accurate.  

I worked on fast jets, didn't know how to fly them.

Feel free to post the relevant section from the conditions of carriage.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

I worked on fast jets, didn't know how to fly them.

Feel free to post the relevant section from the conditions of carriage.

I worked reservations, the ticket counter, gates, ramp, operation, was supervisor, was city manager for airline, hired/fired, did just about everything concerning passenger from reservation, ticketing, boarding, weight & balance for pilots, load baggage/freight/mail, even sampled meals that vendors provided, before approving to be served ... so when I worked for the airlines, if your paperwork wasn't in order, you weren't getting a boarding pass for a flight.

 

Better have a R/T, visa in hand, or an onward flight.  This CO & NWA, 1979/80 & 1988/2001 respectfully, so as I stated, unless something change ...  it hasn't see below.

 

And NO, I didn't fly the planes either.  Did use to start 'em up, (APU) overnight in freezing weather, so water lines wouldn't freeze.  Who would have thought, 727s if memory serves.

 

I wouldn't expect a wrench to know about the passengers & policy, but feel free to disagree with someone WHO DOES.

 

Google is your friend, you might start there before replying to post you have no knowledge about.

 

Apparently nothing has changed: https://www.iata.org/en/publications/newsletters/iata-knowledge-hub/understanding-inads-inadmissible-passengers-and-their-impact-on-travel/

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by KhunLA

[MangoKorat]

On 10/8/2023 at 3:10 AM, DrJack54 said:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1301847-denied-entry/ 

 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1295315-what-happens-if-thailand-denied-me-to-entry-to-the-country/ 

 

Interesting post from ubonjoe in this thread....

 

 

I can't see any reply from ubonjoe in that thread.

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I can't see any reply from ubonjoe in that thread.

Try this one....

https://aseannow.com/topic/992077-entry-denied-bangkok-airport/

[MangoKorat]

10 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Try this one....

https://aseannow.com/topic/992077-entry-denied-bangkok-airport/

Thanks, that was exactly the info I was looking for - re: an appeal.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Thanks, that was exactly the info I was looking for - re: an appeal.

I have read couple of posts from ubonjoe regarding this.

 

I have never read a post of someone doing that.

Naturally most of us mugs are not familiar with what ubonjoe outlined. 

[MangoKorat]

23 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I have read couple of posts from ubonjoe regarding this.

 

I have never read a post of someone doing that.

Naturally most of us mugs are not familiar with what ubonjoe outlined. 

I've never read of anyone actually doing it - only that it is available. I seem to remember though, although its a long time back, that someone posted that when he decided to appeal, immigration changed their mind and let him in.  That is possibly understandable if you think you have good grounds such as when they just don't like your entry and so use the 20k ruse. Many could probably show that they have 20k available but its in a bank account.

 

However, as I understand it, if you appeal you are held at IDC until the appeal is decided, thai in itself may put some off appealing.

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, MangoKorat said:

However, as I understand it, if you appeal you are held at IDC until the appeal is decided, thai in itself may put some off appealing.

Perhaps this has already been mentioned.,.regarding initial steps.

The airline OR immigration press you to sign "form" 

Vaguely recall that's like signing an agreement to depart and you pay for flight..

 

[MangoKorat]

13 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Perhaps this has already been mentioned.,.regarding initial steps.

The airline OR immigration press you to sign "form" 

Vaguely recall that's like signing an agreement to depart and you pay for flight..

 

Yes, now you mention it, that's somewhere in my memory too.

[hydraides]

I've been working in thailand for a teacher for a year on Non-B/Work Permit

 

How risky is it to fly to dubai for a few days......and fly back to Krabi Airport to try and get a visa exempt (British Nationality)

 

 

[DrJack54]

7 hours ago, hydraides said:

How risky is it to fly to dubai for a few days......and fly back to Krabi Airport to try and get a visa exempt (British Nationality)

Should be fine.

Obviously you have your reasons, however why not a nearby country such as Vietnam, Malaysia etc 

Why "just a few days" 

[bigt3116]

9 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

However, as I understand it, if you appeal you are held at IDC until the appeal is decided, thai in itself may put some off appealing.

If you are denied entry you will not go to IDC, because as you well know, that is inside the country! You will spend your time in the holding cells at the airport.

[MangoKorat]

11 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

If you are denied entry you will not go to IDC, because as you well know, that is inside the country! You will spend your time in the holding cells at the airport.

Possibly, I can only go by what was commented on at the time.  It would be quite easy for immigration to stamp you in for say 7 days but to detain you.  An entry stamp does not prevent arrest and it can be cancelled at any time.  The Thai authorities have the absolute right to deport you if ultimately, you are found to have failed to meet Thailand's conditions of entry.  Those conditions can be anything they want them to be - you would hardly be in a position to argue.

 

Whatever, IDC or airport, you would still be incarcerated in pretty bad conditions and that in itself may deter some, if not most, from appealing.

Edited October 9, 2023 by MangoKorat

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Possibly, I can only go by what was commented on at the time.  It would be quite easy for immigration to stamp you in for say 7 days but to detain you.  An entry stamp does not prevent arrest and it can be cancelled at any time.  The Thai authorities have the absolute right to deport you if ultimately, you are found to have failed to meet Thailand's conditions of entry.  Those conditions can be anything they want them to be - you would hardly be in a position to argue.

 

Whatever, IDC or airport, you would still be incarcerated in pretty bad conditions and that in itself may deter some, if not most, from appealing.

All nonsense.

You would not be stamped in for 7 days.

You are not deported.

You can be refused entry.

As pointed out already, you are kept in Detention holding rooms.

Pictures of that already posted

[bigt3116]

43 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

The Thai authorities have the absolute right to deport you if ultimately, you are found to have failed to meet Thailand's conditions of entry. 

You can not be deported if denied entry! You clearly do not understand deportation and denied entry are totally different.