Expats seeking a new life face challenges with stricter banking and taxation rules being pushed

[bugger bognor]

unbelievable waffle what are you all smoking! some insane claims on here!  bearing in mind no official clarification of anything yet NONE we will all have to file a tax return to renew our visas???? a complete <deleted>,  we will have to prove it's money from savings!!!! everyone will have to register for a tax code number in Thailand!!!! laughable,  international money transfers will be taxed and the Thai bank on arrival and steal your money then you have to prove it's saving or been taxed already !!!!! Delusional oh and don't forget your going to have to get all your documents translated to Thai and employ an accountant anyone who thinks thats going to happen in Thailand is a complete C,,,,,,,,,NT

[atpeace]

14 hours ago, Tom H said:

pay your bills with a Baht account abroad from Thailand. You even can use ATM in T.

You can pay bill with Wise?  Atm's are considered international transfers?  Not trying to be difficult here but I don't see these as clear cut solutions.  I think the ATM should work and plan on using mine. I get reimbursed for any fees charged at Thailand ATMs which make the process even easier.  In the end I doubt this new reg will impact retirees but worth preparing for if easy.

[DaRoadrunner]

All it takes is for the Thais to require a tax clearance certificate to obtain your visa. Plus all incoming bank transfers could be taxed. In which case we are all out of here. For sure the Thais will make up the rules to suit themselves. For sure the rules will be totally devoid of any common sense and poorly thought out in true Thai fashion.

 

I wait to see exactly what they are going to do.

[DaRoadrunner]

All it takes is for the Thais to require a tax clearance certificate to obtain your visa. Plus all incoming bank transfers could be taxed. In which case we are all out of here. For sure the Thais will make up the rules to suit themselves. For sure the rules will be totally devoid of any common sense and poorly thought out in true Thai fashion.

 

I wait to see exactly what they are going to do.

[TravelerEastWest]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:56 AM, LivinLOS said:

Well you can, its only the remittance to Thailand which creates the taxable event.. 

Start paying all bills via wise.. A direct payment from outside the country to the 3rd party is then thier taxable event, not yours.. House and car payments, GF or wifes housekeeping, etc etc.. Spend as much as possible with an overseas credit card.. Brings the total right down. 

From a Thai theoretical tax point of view - you are in reality indirectly making your own payment and a taxable event may occur...

 

On a practical level they are unlikely to be able to track the transactions most of the time...

[charleskerins]

On 10/12/2023 at 10:18 AM, QuantumQuandry said:

There are countries other than Thailand and your home country.

 

I would probably choose Philippines but I would also investigate nearby SEA countries like Indonesia and Malaysia.

 

Can even come back and visit Thailand frequently on a 2 hour plane trip and just stay under the tax residency number of days.

I 'm here -granddaughter and girlfriend

[kingstonkid]

On 10/13/2023 at 4:12 PM, JCauto said:

Is "hoe country" a typo or intended? ????

sometimes not sure

[Gknrd]

On 10/11/2023 at 4:43 PM, SuperSaiyan said:

Yes, indeed. They actually (still) like White foreigners. The only thing what pisses me of majorly is the lack of good sea view property even though the PH shouldn't be lacking. Except for that, it's a dream. I don't know why people still want to be treated like <deleted> in Thailand and basically beg to stay there.

It' just the people that cannot leave that stay there. Wife, family, all their money tied up in land and home.  The government knows it. Easy pickings..

Kinda like credit card companies, once they get you in then they raise the rates to bleed you dry.

[Gknrd]

Thailand a retirement destination?  Is this the joke of the day..

Haha, More like a holding cell until they can extract your pension and bleed you dry.. 

[Moonlover]

On 10/12/2023 at 5:44 AM, zzaa09 said:

Simple solution.

Don't reside here on a non O/non O-A visa.....marriage/retirement visas.

 

Still astounded as to the number of old hands or long-timers that have bought into this nonsense. 

Simple solution to what exactly?

[hotandsticky]

On 10/13/2023 at 6:31 PM, Iamloki said:

Really Sticky... I have no idea - except that the onus of proof will be on the tax resident.

A couple of observations from today - and something that should stop the average retired expat from wetting themselves further.

 

I am not a huge fan but I saw a You Tube video today from Ride4Kickz...he visited a tax consultant who said that most expats have nothing to be concerned about. Not sure if I can post the link on here but just Google him on You Tube.

 

One think that he did say was that differentiation on 'last years income being savings' has been removed and all income in the current tax year counts......OK for those of us with DTA's...

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

A couple of observations from today - and something that should stop the average retired expat from wetting themselves further.

 

I am not a huge fan but I saw a You Tube video today from Ride4Kickz...he visited a tax consultant who said that most expats have nothing to be concerned about. Not sure if I can post the link on here but just Google him on You Tube.

 

One think that he did say was that differentiation on 'last years income being savings' has been removed and all income in the current tax year counts......OK for those of us with DTA's...

I think he's wrong, the current tax year is out of scope. The new rules start with transactions in 2024 and the tax return during first quarter 2025

[SuperSaiyan]

6 hours ago, Gknrd said:

It' just the people that cannot leave that stay there. Wife, family, all their money tied up in land and home.  The government knows it. Easy pickings..

Kinda like credit card companies, once they get you in then they raise the rates to bleed you dry.

Yes, that's true. But people have to say it as well. Some people here defend Thailand with all its negativity and then you find out they just do it because they have no options.

 

On the other side, White men with kids in Thailand who can't afford a private school in Thailand and send their kids to a public Thai school probably shouldn't be in Thailand anyway, as it seems it's not for the good of the kids.

[maddermax]

The Thais will love you when you come to spend money as a tourist, hence the smiles. However, live here and they no longer like you because expats have the money, houses and nice cars.

They tend to forget that it was many of us expats who were donating money to enable the hotels to give food to those long lines of unemployed starving Thais.

It was expat spending which basically kept this place afloat.

If they do anything to disturb the status quo they will slowly kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

[Mike Lister]

16 minutes ago, maddermax said:

The Thais will love you when you come to spend money as a tourist, hence the smiles. However, live here and they no longer like you because expats have the money, houses and nice cars.

They tend to forget that it was many of us expats who were donating money to enable the hotels to give food to those long lines of unemployed starving Thais.

It was expat spending which basically kept this place afloat.

If they do anything to disturb the status quo they will slowly kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

What nonsense! A Western expat population of circa 150k kept a population of 70 million afloat during covid, I really dont think so!! You overestimate the expat worth by a substantial margin.

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 10/12/2023 at 12:36 PM, Banana7 said:

You can physically bring into Thailand up to USD$20,000 without declaring it. Maybe open a bank account in a nearby country, transfer money to it, then visit it and withdraw U$19K and bring it into Thailand, once or more times a year, depending on your needs.

 

Correct. There is always a workaround. 

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 10/12/2023 at 10:06 PM, hotandsticky said:

“The Key”……is the ability of the Thai authorities to implement and manage a scheme that monitors the income tax situation for 3-4 million foreigners living in Thailand.

 

Now, tell me, seriously - how do you REALLY think that they will get on with that.

They will take the money first and expect the foreigners to prove it is not taxable.

[jayceenik]

Transferring over USD 50,000.

When I first came to live here long time ago I was told by my KTB bank that I could transfer from overseas any amount but transfers over USD 50,000 (or equivalent) required extra work and explanations before the amount was put in my THB savings account.

[Mr Meeseeks]

23 hours ago, maddermax said:

The Thais will love you when you come to spend money as a tourist, hence the smiles. However, live here and they no longer like you because expats have the money, houses and nice cars.

Bingo.

[Dogmatix]

32 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Correct. There is always a workaround. 

Some neighbouring countries have lower cash export limits.  HK never had one before but introduced a limit for import and export of cash without declaration of HK$150,000 and Singapore has a limit of S$15,000.  UK is GBP 10,000.

[hotandsticky]

46 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

They will take the money first and expect the foreigners to prove it is not taxable.

Not from me they won't.

[hotandsticky]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:31 PM, bugger bognor said:

unbelievable waffle what are you all smoking! some insane claims on here!  bearing in mind no official clarification of anything yet NONE we will all have to file a tax return to renew our visas???? a complete <deleted>,  we will have to prove it's money from savings!!!! everyone will have to register for a tax code number in Thailand!!!! laughable,  international money transfers will be taxed and the Thai bank on arrival and steal your money then you have to prove it's saving or been taxed already !!!!! Delusional oh and don't forget your going to have to get all your documents translated to Thai and employ an accountant anyone who thinks thats going to happen in Thailand is a complete C,,,,,,,,,NT

 

Thank goodness; somebody else that can see that the last thing the Thai authorities could cope with is hundreds of thousands tax submissions from non-residents. This is clearly designed to close a loophole with existing Thais.

[lordgrinz]

If the goal is the upper crust, then just create a limit somewhere high enough to avoid catching the lower echelons. Say somewhere above the Immigration requirements, like anything above 1 to 2 million baht.

[JimTripper]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:31 PM, bugger bognor said:

unbelievable waffle what are you all smoking! some insane claims on here!  bearing in mind no official clarification of anything yet NONE we will all have to file a tax return to renew our visas???? a complete <deleted>,  we will have to prove it's money from savings!!!! everyone will have to register for a tax code number in Thailand!!!! laughable,  international money transfers will be taxed and the Thai bank on arrival and steal your money then you have to prove it's saving or been taxed already !!!!! Delusional oh and don't forget your going to have to get all your documents translated to Thai and employ an accountant anyone who thinks thats going to happen in Thailand is a complete C,,,,,,,,,NT

We need to do many of those sorts of things now to even get a retirement visa, do it's not that ridiculous.

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

Thank goodness; somebody else that can see that the last thing the Thai authorities could cope with is hundreds of thousands tax submissions from non-residents. This is clearly designed to close a loophole with existing Thais.

The RD could cope with as many tax returns as the public wanted to throw at them, as long as they have the disk space, given that it's all online these days.

[Hugh Jarse]

On 10/12/2023 at 5:44 AM, zzaa09 said:

Simple solution.

Don't reside here on a non O/non O-A visa.....marriage/retirement visas.

 

Still astounded as to the number of old hands or long-timers that have bought into this nonsense. 

@and your recommendations?

[JensenZ]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:10 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I worked with many Phils women and they are just as bad as western women when it comes to relationships, IMO.

I did meet one exception though, but it wasn't meant to be.

Sounds like you might be the problem in relationships - always blaming the women?

 

It should be noted that the Philippines is a matriarchal society. Filipinos grow up in matriarchal networks, where women make decisions about most things including money.

 

Until they have you hooked, you wouldn't know it. They play a passive-aggressive role that often goes unnoticed by hapless foreigners until it's too late. Most of them don't really prefer foreigners and they are just a means to an end. Old weathly foreigners are highly prized.

[JimTripper]

On 10/15/2023 at 10:51 AM, maddermax said:

The Thais will love you when you come to spend money as a tourist, hence the smiles. However, live here and they no longer like you because expats have the money, houses and nice cars.

They tend to forget that it was many of us expats who were donating money to enable the hotels to give food to those long lines of unemployed starving Thais.

It was expat spending which basically kept this place afloat.

If they do anything to disturb the status quo they will slowly kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

People of lesser means don't ever (with few exceptions like maybe monks) really like people of more means.

 

You can twist around the response with smiles or whatever, but it's envy at the root. Envy eventually leads to contempt and worse. It looks to tear you down so you no longer have more. It applies worldwide and across cultures.

[tomacht8]

5 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

They will take the money first and expect the foreigners to prove it is not taxable.

The same thing has been done for years with capital gains. Savings interest and dividends are reduced as a percentage by the applicable tax rate and withheld at source (by the banks). When the tax year is over, you can then use your personal allowances to try to get some of the withheld capital gains taxes back. This process has been used for years in my stock portfolios and savings accounts both in Thailand and in Europe.

 

However, I 100% doubt that this procedure can generally be used in Thailand for simple (all) money transfers from abroad. What will happen, however, is that all taxable residents (stays over 180 days a year) will receive mail from the tax office and you will then have to declare your “taxable income”. After that, it will probably only be possible to carry out random checks, as this sort of thing is quite time-consuming and personnel-intensive for the tax authorities.

 

There are usually 3 checking/recording systems running in the tax offices:

1. Bank data evaluation. Banks must report customer data to the tax office. What is interesting for the tax office are quite large transfer amounts from abroad from private individuals to private individuals.

2. The tax return itself. Where questions arise about plausibility (From what did the taxpayer actually live on)?

3. Third party notices from jealous neighbors

[BritManToo]

27 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

People of lesser means don't ever (with few exceptions like maybe monks) really like people of more means.

Are you suggesting rich people like the poor?

I think not!