HUNDREDS feared dead at Gaza Hospital as Israel denies strike.

[Hanaguma]

...and the latest on the incident from POTUS: "I'm not suggesting that Hamas deliberately did it... they gotta learn how to shoot straight".

 

So, according to Biden, Hamas should build better rockets that are more easily targeted on Israelis?!? What the hell is he thinking?!?

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

If Hamas was not hiding among civilians, maybe this would have been less on an issue. Somehow you seem to ignore this or imply that's alright.

 

Regardless of AlJazeera's reporting, or your rendering of it, it is not true that the entire Gaza Strip has been bombed. If that was so, the casualty lists would be way longer.

 

As for your last bit of dishonest commentary - it's not like Egypt is ready and willing to let them in.

It's not like they necessarily want to leave, given their justified fear that Israel might not let them back in.

"Still, Palestinians have reason to be fearful: Displacements into Arab states in previous Israel-Palestine conflicts have been permanent. Many of the descendants of those who fled their homes during the 1948 war that led to Israel’s creation still live in refugee camps in neighboring countries as well as in Gaza, which was ruled by Egypt for most of the period between 1949 and 1967."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/10/18/egypt-hamas-israel-border-gaza/

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

It's not like they necessarily want to leave, given their justified fear that Israel might not let them back in.

"Still, Palestinians have reason to be fearful: Displacements into Arab states in previous Israel-Palestine conflicts have been permanent. Many of the descendants of those who fled their homes during the 1948 war that led to Israel’s creation still live in refugee camps in neighboring countries as well as in Gaza, which was ruled by Egypt for most of the period between 1949 and 1967."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/10/18/egypt-hamas-israel-border-gaza/

There is also the small problem that nobody wants them, especially their so-called brothers in Islam. Egypt and Jordan have both categorically stated that they will take ZERO refugees from Gaza.

 

That is the only reason they are still living in refugee camps. They have not been allowed to assimilate into the societies of the countries that should be welcoming them.  Compare that to the treatment given to Jews who were forced out of myriad Muslim countries in the 50s and 60s and found refuge in Israel. 

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

There is also the small problem that nobody wants them, especially their so-called brothers in Islam. Egypt and Jordan have both categorically stated that they will take ZERO refugees from Gaza.

 

That is the only reason they are still living in refugee camps. They have not been allowed to assimilate into the societies of the countries that should be welcoming them.  Compare that to the treatment given to Jews who were forced out of myriad Muslim countries in the 50s and 60s and found refuge in Israel. 

Really? The only reason? Nothing to do with the fact that they might be afraid leaving means surrendering their claims to their homes from which they have been illegally denied the right to return to?

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? The only reason? Nothing to do with the fact that they might be afraid leaving means surrendering their claims to their homes from which they have been illegally denied the right to return to?

What homes have the Gazans been denied the right to return to? 

 

And yeah, if you back the losing side in a war of attempted genocide (as the Palestinians did in 1948), there just may be consequences.  They need to look to their supposed allies in the Arab League for support. 

[placeholder]

22 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

What homes have the Gazans been denied the right to return to? 

 

And yeah, if you back the losing side in a war of attempted genocide (as the Palestinians did in 1948), there just may be consequences.  They need to look to their supposed allies in the Arab League for support. 

What do you mean by "back the losing side?" These were civilians.  And was the war of 1948 attempted genocide? According to Benny Morris, the eminent Israeli historian, most of the massacres that took place during the 1948 War were committed by Israeli forces. Which is why so many Palestinians fled.

[Hanaguma]

46 minutes ago, placeholder said:

What do you mean by "back the losing side?" These were civilians.  And was the war of 1948 attempted genocide? According to Benny Morris, the eminent Israeli historian, most of the massacres that took place during the 1948 War were committed by Israeli forces. Which is why so many Palestinians fled.

Not a war of genocide? What was the Arab League trying to do when they attacked Israel then- play football?  

 

To quote the Secretary General of the Arab League at the time in 1948;

 

“It will be a war of annihilation. It will be a momentous massacre in history that will be talked about like the massacres of the Mongols or the Crusades.“

 

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/background-and-overview-israel-war-of-independence

 

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You don't still believe that lie about decapitating babies do you?

 

https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-10-14/the-decapitated-babies-that-no-one-saw-but-someone-used.html

even the president of the world’s leading power has stated that he has seen babies beheaded by Hamas. Joe Biden said it with the same assertiveness with which his own team later denied it: “I never really thought that I would see and have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children.” It was a lie. In fact, an Israeli journalist had reported that the army had found 40 beheaded babies in a kibbutz, an unconfirmed story echoed by the Israeli government.

That particular method of murder is quite popular with those who committed all of the other crimes, as we have seen elsewhere in the world. The beheading story might be propaganda but the important thing is that it could be quite easily believable.

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How about the right to not be killed with impunity by israelis for the past 30 years? How about the right not to have their land stolen by settlers? How about the right to not be subject to collective punishment?

There have been killings on both sides in recent decades. I admit to not knowing the complete history of the conflict but it seems that both the Jews and Arabs each have a case. But for cases to be made, murder is a hopeless way for any progress. I don't know if a true settlement for peace and lands is achievable, but I hope so. But I do know that this problem goes back far longer than 30 years. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by nauseus

[billd766]

11 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Since when have you been the Worlds spokesman ?

What right do you have to speak on behalf of the Worlds 7 Billion population ?

Exactly the same rights that you have.

 

I have noticed that in his posts, he has condemned both sides. You have not.

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

 

I have noticed that in his posts, he has condemned both sides. You have not.

Incredible. Any normal, unblinkered person condemns both sides. 

Unlike Biden, who wants a war with Iran as he knows war time presidents get reelected.

[Morch]

17 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Incredible. Any normal, unblinkered person condemns both sides. 

Unlike Biden, who wants a war with Iran as he knows war time presidents get reelected.

Making things up, again.

[Morch]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

Really? The only reason? Nothing to do with the fact that they might be afraid leaving means surrendering their claims to their homes from which they have been illegally denied the right to return to?

Let me put it another way. The Gaza Strip is, generally, not a great place to live in. Palestinians living there do not have much choice about it. They cannot simply emigrate. Now, if Egypt (and/or other Arab countries) were to change their policy and allow them a path to citizenship, settlement and so on - do you still think Palestinians would turn down the offer? Apologies if it sounds callous, but a line from one of Bill Hicks's shows come to me - "What....and leave all this?".

 

I guess some are tied to the place, and that's fine. Some will remain for the 'struggle'. But I doubt many would pass on such an offer, if it was made.

 

[vinny41]

7 hours ago, Morch said:

Let me put it another way. The Gaza Strip is, generally, not a great place to live in. Palestinians living there do not have much choice about it. They cannot simply emigrate. Now, if Egypt (and/or other Arab countries) were to change their policy and allow them a path to citizenship, settlement and so on - do you still think Palestinians would turn down the offer? Apologies if it sounds callous, but a line from one of Bill Hicks's shows come to me - "What....and leave all this?".

 

I guess some are tied to the place, and that's fine. Some will remain for the 'struggle'. But I doubt many would pass on such an offer, if it was made.

 

Clearly a case of ethnic cleansing

I see from this article that Netanyahu produced a new map last month of the middle east without Palestine

Germany criticises Netanyahu over 'New Middle East' map without Palestine

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230925-germany-criticises-netanyahu-over-new-middle-east-map-without-palestine/

 

[rattlesnake]

12 hours ago, nauseus said:

That particular method of murder is quite popular with those who committed all of the other crimes, as we have seen elsewhere in the world. The beheading story might be propaganda but the important thing is that it could be quite easily believable.

No, the important thing is that it is a lie.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Yeah, all those Jew settlers in Gaza need to leave NOW!

 

...oh wait, they left 17 years ago.

 

Nevermind...

 

Plus, if the people of Gaza do not want to be punished for supporting, hiding, and coddling Hamas, then they should have stopped supporting, hiding, and coddling Hamas.  

If you can't post rationally, I no longer want to see your rants, so you are on ignore till after this is over.

Bye.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, nauseus said:

There have been killings on both sides in recent decades. I admit to not knowing the complete history of the conflict but it seems that both the Jews and Arabs each have a case. But for cases to be made, murder is a hopeless way for any progress. I don't know if a true settlement for peace and lands is achievable, but I hope so. But I do know that this problem goes back far longer than 30 years. 

Yes, the problem goes back to 1948.

 

How would you like it if people thousands of miles away decreed that YOU should lose your land so other people could live on it, and then those people made your neighbours refugees so they could have more land?

 

This is not a one sided problem.

 

I doubt there is any hope for a solution now, as there is far too much hate against israel from all over the world, and as long as the US unconditionally supports israel the conflict will continue, and lets not forget that there are a lot of Muslims out there, and many of them ( after this conflict ) hate israelis and are starting to hate Americans as well. Massive demonstrations against israel and america in many Arab countries, as well as demonstrations in support of Palestinians in western countries, including Jews doing a sit down protest in the US congress building.

 

The conflict is already spilling over with attacks from Lebanon and also apparently from Yemen.

It's not going to get settled any time soon, so expect the nightly news to be full of pictures of dead in the future.

 

Also, if OPEC nations turn off the oil like they did in the 1970s, things will get really dire for the west.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Hamas is responsible for the killings... they are the aggressors and any and all retaliation is on their heads

What about the over 1,000 Palestinian children dead? Are they Hamas? Do they deserve to get blown to bits?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

No, the important thing is that it is a lie.

Seems strange to me that when the Russians say anything it is a lie, but when the israelis say anything it is always the truth.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, nauseus said:

That particular method of murder is quite popular with those who committed all of the other crimes, as we have seen elsewhere in the world. The beheading story might be propaganda but the important thing is that it could be quite easily believable.

Regarding the hospital bombing, there is a lot of effort being put into trying to prove it isn't true, even by a poster on here, but even if the israelis didn't bomb the hospital the important thing is that it could be quite easily believable.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Clearly a case of ethnic cleansing

I see from this article that Netanyahu produced a new map last month of the middle east without Palestine

Germany criticises Netanyahu over 'New Middle East' map without Palestine

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230925-germany-criticises-netanyahu-over-new-middle-east-map-without-palestine/

 

Seems that netanyahu is so confident of winning that he is spilling the beans too soon.

I have no doubt myself that he was just waiting for an excuse to carry out this operation, and Hamas just gave it to him.

Certainly, the US pretense of being an honest broker in the Middle East has been exposed as a lie. Will any Arab country trust the US ( or Britain ) after this?

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seems that netanyahu is so confident of winning that he is spilling the beans too soon.

I have no doubt myself that he was just waiting for an excuse to carry out this operation, and Hamas just gave it to him.

Certainly, the US pretense of being an honest broker in the Middle East has been exposed as a lie. Will any Arab country trust the US ( or Britain ) after this?

According to this article simply answer is no

West's eroding credibility due to unconditional support for Israel

 

Middle Eastern countries, aware of their past, seek political independence through diversified foreign policies, potentially shifting influence from the West to powers like China and Russia in the region

https://www.dailysabah.com/opinion/columns/wests-eroding-credibility-due-to-unconditional-support-for-israel

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

West's eroding credibility due to unconditional support for Israel

It's eroding visibly as pictures of blown up Palestinian children are shown on television sets all over the world.

The British PM may come to regret being biden's poodle on this one.

[quake]

Lets not forget who is doing the fighting here.

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by quake

[Skipalongcassidy]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What about the over 1,000 Palestinian children dead? Are they Hamas? Do they deserve to get blown to bits?

It's up to the Palestinians to help control Hamas... up until now they ignore and do nothing and are paying the price... Why aren't you interested in holding the aggressors accountable?

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's eroding visibly as pictures of blown up Palestinian children are shown on television sets all over the world.

The British PM may come to regret being biden's poodle on this one.

We have seen a very quick u-turn from Biden other UK poodle

In an interview with LBC, Labour leader Sir Keir said "Israel has the right" to withhold power and water from Gaza.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-67149953

So far, about a dozen Labour councillors - out of more than 6,000 - are reported to have resigned over Sir Keir's stance.

 

But Sir Keir's spokesman sought to defuse the row on Wednesday - a week after the interview was broadcast - by suggesting the Labour leader had only meant to say Israel had a general right to self-defence.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-67144203

[thaibeachlovers]

Now the israelis are blowing up churches.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/16/war-knows-no-religion-gazas-oldest-church-shelters-muslims-christians

Gaza City – When an Israeli air raid destroyed Walaa Sobeh’s house and much of her neighbourhood, the Palestinian Muslim sought shelter in Gaza’s oldest church.

At the Church of Saint Porphyrius, she found not just sanctuary, but a feeling of belonging to “one family” — united by both the terror of bombs exploding around them and a hope that they could survive Israel’s attacks.

 

Sadly, safe shelter was not to be found there.

 

https://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/58/1262/510623/War-on-Gaza/War-on-Gaza/Dozens-of-Palestinian-feared-dead-after-Israeli-st.aspx

A Palestinian girl was killed and others were injured on Thursday after an Israeli air strike hit Saint Porphyrius Orthodox Church in Gaza City, Palestinian news agency WAFA reported.

 

 

[vinny41]

Gaza hospital: What video, pictures and other evidence tell us about Al-Ahli hospital blast

 

The hospital is owned and run by the Anglican Church.

Canon Richard Sewell, the dean of St George's College in Jerusalem, told the BBC that about 1,000 displaced people were sheltering in the courtyard when it was hit, and about 600 patients and staff were inside the building.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 minutes ago, quake said:

Lets not forget who is doing the fighting here.

 

 

 

Yes, it's the israelis. The Gazans have no means to fight back against the  planes bombing them or the artillery shelling them.

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you can't post rationally, I no longer want to see your rants, so you are on ignore till after this is over.

Bye.

How many you got on ignore now....lol

 

What's it like talking to an echo chamber?