Do you think (most) financially struggling western retirees are stupid for not retiring abroad?

[Celsius]

Just now, gearbox said:

That's not the truth. His rental numbers are way off down.

 

https://mozo.com.au/home-loans/articles/what-is-the-average-rent-in-australia

 

In the article above the numbers are weekly rents. His pension is good enough to only rent and then live on tap water...at least the tap water is drinkable in Oz.

 

So you missed the entire point about government subsidies for low income people?

[gearbox]

34 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

So you missed the entire point about government subsidies for low income people?

Most of the subsidies are already included in his pension numbers.

 

Health care is free for emergencies, but try to do things like hip replacement....the waiting period is probably 2+ years.

 

Yes you can get big discounts for public transport in the cities, but what's the point of moving endlessly around in the same city? There are no airfare discounts for pensioners.

 

I just read a feedback from one cyclist going from Gold Coast to Sydney...at Brunswick Head they wanted $76 from him for a camp site. Here you'll get 4 star hotel for that much.

 

Barring the emergency health care, the dollar goes much much further in Thailand, at least for the Aussies.

Edited October 22, 2023 by gearbox

[JensenZ]

18 hours ago, Jingthing said:

So back to the question:

Do you think (most) financially struggling western retirees are stupid for not retiring abroad?

There's no question in my mind - I believe they are stupid to attempt to retire abroad. It's better off running out of cash in your home country than in Thailand.

 

Please note that my answer is based on the assumption that the home country is Australia or New Zealand. There's a good enough social network (if sought) to at least have a place to stay, food to eat, and medical assistance.

 

I can't comment on the situation in the US or Europe. Jingthing probably thinks we all come from the US.

Edited October 22, 2023 by JensenZ

[bignok]

2 hours ago, gearbox said:

That's not the truth. His rental numbers are way off down.

 

https://mozo.com.au/home-loans/articles/what-is-the-average-rent-in-australia

 

In the article above the numbers are weekly rents. His pension is good enough to only rent and then live on tap water...at least the tap water is drinkable in Oz.

He is sharing

[1FinickyOne]

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Do you think (most) financially struggling western retirees are stupid for not retiring abroad?

Not stupid - many of my countrymen are not internationally aware - and have been indoctrinated to think USA is the greatest place on earth. Even smart people. My college roommate became a lawyer - he had a 1 month marriage and went to Haiti for a quickie divorce - since then, he assumed all foreign countries were poverty pits like Haiti and never went anywhere again

 

Though, I think the greatest influence was the movie Midnight Express - - even people who never commit crimes have a fear of foreign prisons and think the best way to avoid that is never to leave... 

[still kicking]

2 hours ago, gearbox said:

That's not the truth. His rental numbers are way off down.

 

https://mozo.com.au/home-loans/articles/what-is-the-average-rent-in-australia

 

In the article above the numbers are weekly rents. His pension is good enough to only rent and then live on tap water...at least the tap water is drinkable in Oz.

I don't care what the average rent is but mine is way below that. I haven't had an increase in more than 7 years and I don't live in the rip-off cities like Sydney or Melbourne. My rent is AUD 240 per week

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Not stupid - many of my countrymen are not internationally aware - and have been indoctrinated to think USA is the greatest place on earth. Even smart people. My college roommate became a lawyer - he had a 1 month marriage and went to Haiti for a quickie divorce - since then, he assumed all foreign countries were poverty pits like Haiti and never went anywhere again

 

Though, I think the greatest influence was the movie Midnight Express - - even people who never commit crimes have a fear of foreign prisons and think the best way to avoid that is never to leave... 

That's fair.

There are stupid expats who should have never come and stupid stay at homes.

It sounds like you're describing people that are simply ill informed about the options in the world. That alone doesn't make then stupid.

[Will B Good]

Yes....moving to a developing nation when you retire is a no brainer.

[KhunLA]

Hit a nerve ... 🤣

Edited October 22, 2023 by KhunLA

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

That's fair.

There are stupid expats who should have never come and stupid stay at homes.

It sounds like you're describing people that are simply ill informed about the options in the world. That alone doesn't make then stupid.

I knew an English Professor w/a well educated wife - he was here early in life for a visit and loved it - he wanted them to vacation here and I volunteered to show them around - - she did not want to come because she did not like the idea that she would not be able to understand what the people around her were saying... 

 

I think many people are afraid... 

 

I think I might be afraid to go back to the USA. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by 1FinickyOne

[Celsius]

2 hours ago, still kicking said:

I don't care what the average rent is but mine is way below that. I haven't had an increase in more than 7 years and I don't live in the rip-off cities like Sydney or Melbourne. My rent is AUD 240 per week

 

Yes. 

 

Because back in your own country you are protected against being ruined financially, But try to explain this to people who left decades ago and have no clue how things work anymore.

 

Even in the most expensive places on the planet like Toronto where I own a condo I am not allowed to raise rent more than 2% despite inflation being 10 while taxes and condo fees are up 20%.

 

This is why when I go back the first thing I do is claim my property back for "personal use".

 

And then sell it.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Celsius

[gearbox]

3 hours ago, still kicking said:

I don't care what the average rent is but mine is way below that. I haven't had an increase in more than 7 years and I don't live in the rip-off cities like Sydney or Melbourne. My rent is AUD 240 per week

You may live even rent free, but the hard facts are that the average rents are way way higher than your $240 per week. It would be a poor decision someone to move back to Oz with the expectation to pay what you currently pay.

[gearbox]

20 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

Yes. 

 

Because back in your own country you are protected against being ruined financially, But try to explain this to people who left decades ago and have no clue how things work anymore.

 

Even in the most expensive places on the planet like Toronto where I own a condo I am not allowed to raise rent more than 2% despite inflation being 10 while taxes and condo fees are up 20%.

 

This is why when I go back the first thing I do is claim my property back for "personal use".

 

And then sell it.

 

 

How the home country protect you from being ruined financially except emergency health care? Are you saying that $100k in your country would last longer than in Thailand? The retirees who deplete their funds in Thailand are free to move back to their home country and get the same benefits as if they never left the country before.

[Celsius]

17 minutes ago, gearbox said:

How the home country protect you from being ruined financially except emergency health care? Are you saying that $100k in your country would last longer than in Thailand? The retirees who deplete their funds in Thailand are free to move back to their home country and get the same benefits as if they never left the country before.

 

I am calculating like this for a 2 bedroom condo (that I will own).

 

$500 condo fees, $200 property tax, $600 food, $100 internet, $100 phone, $60 electric, $100 transport (no car anymore). Round it up to 1600 Canadian per month,... pretty much what I spend every month here on average without health insurance as I quit that paying last year when it was proven to me how useless it was.

 

So, these are basic living costs and I am sure someone soon enough will say "existence", as if 42,000 baht a month is not just existing in Thailand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ralf001]

17 hours ago, Northstar1 said:

Fact is many have come here, living in a shoe box, eating at tin cup, no health insurance,( hence the go fund me pages) and thought it would be great!

grass ain’t always greener on the other side!

thailand is no place for a poor man 

most gofundme pages are from moron tourists that come unstuck on a scooter they are not licenced to ride.

[Ralf001]

17 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

I am calculating like this for a 2 bedroom condo (that I will own).

 

$500 condo fees, $200 property tax, $600 food, $100 internet, $100 phone, $60 electric, $100 transport (no car anymore). Round it up to 1600 Canadian per month,... pretty much what I spend every month here on average without health insurance as I quit that paying last year when it was proven to me how useless it was.

 

So, these are basic living costs and I am sure someone soon enough will say "existence", as if 42,000 baht a month is not just existing in Thailand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

18,000b a month for condo fees and property tax ?

[NextG]

14 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

I am calculating like this for a 2 bedroom condo (that I will own).

 

$500 condo fees, $200 property tax, $600 food, $100 internet, $100 phone, $60 electric, $100 transport (no car anymore). Round it up to 1600 Canadian per month,... pretty much what I spend every month here on average without health insurance as I quit that paying last year when it was proven to me how useless it was.

 

So, these are basic living costs and I am sure someone soon enough will say "existence", as if 42,000 baht a month is not just existing in Thailand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s cold in Canada, really COLD. It’s not just about how much everything costs. 
You lived in a polluted city. Some choose to live on an island/close to a beach. Not just existing but enjoying their existence. Those who only talk about money aren’t likely to be enjoying. 

[Jingthing]

42 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

I knew an English Professor w/a well educated wife - he was here early in life for a visit and loved it - he wanted them to vacation here and I volunteered to show them around - - she did not want to come because she did not like the idea that she would not be able to understand what the people around her were saying... 

 

I think many people are afraid... 

 

I think I might be afraid to go back to the USA. 

Interesting point.

I definitely don't want to repatriate!

It's more dread than fear.

Just in case I keep tabs on so called more  affordable US destinations. The most recent one I looked at was Hattiesburg Mississippi.  Yippee!

[gearbox]

43 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

I am calculating like this for a 2 bedroom condo (that I will own).

 

$500 condo fees, $200 property tax, $600 food, $100 internet, $100 phone, $60 electric, $100 transport (no car anymore). Round it up to 1600 Canadian per month,... pretty much what I spend every month here on average without health insurance as I quit that paying last year when it was proven to me how useless it was.

 

So, these are basic living costs and I am sure someone soon enough will say "existence", as if 42,000 baht a month is not just existing in Thailand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do you fail to put in your calculations is the opportunity cost of owning your condo. I don't know what the rents are in the area your condo is,  but judging from Australia if you get 5% return on investment of the value of your condo you may cover all your Thailand expenses and have the $1600 extra for spending.

[Celsius]

2 hours ago, gearbox said:

What do you fail to put in your calculations is the opportunity cost of owning your condo. I don't know what the rents are in the area your condo is,  but judging from Australia if you get 5% return on investment of the value of your condo you may cover all your Thailand expenses and have the $1600 extra for spending.

 

I am taking all options into a consideration. Not saying you are wrong, but the cost of living back home isn't really that different considering all the "benefits" I will be enjoying.

[Prubangboy]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I keep tabs on so called more  affordable US destinations. The most recent one I looked at was Hattiesburg Mississippi.  Yippee!

But then you need a car. Another Socialist improvement over the USA: transit. A car = a second rent.

 

I've been to Hattiesburg. Like every other faintly "revitalized" downtown in The South: a few cafes, a museum about the bygone timber industry that might half a dozen visitors in a year.

 

But on the upside, they do have a re-creation of the set of Home Alone 2 (so there's your entertainment sorted):

 

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/lucky-rabbit

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

But then you need a car. Another Socialist improvement over the USA: transit. A car = a second rent.

 

I've been to Hattiesburg. Like every other faintly "revitalized" downtown in The South: a few cafes, a museum about the bygone timber industry that might half a dozen visitors in a year.

 

But on the upside, they do have a re-creation of the set of Home Alone 2 (so there's your entertainment sorted):

 

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/lucky-rabbit

Yes, that's a big problem almost everywhere in the US and certainly most everywhere that is on the "more afforable" variety. You absolutely need a car. I guess the only bright side to that is that 20 year old beater cars are pretty cheap. 

 

I know nothing about Hattiesburg. It sounds OK for the deep south. They even have a synagogue and a gay community center. But I checked apartments and it looks like you're talking 900 for anything not horribly depressing. I can afford like 350, ha ha. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Jingthing

[HauptmannUK]

I'm in the UK right now and have recently been helping a 66 year old Thai lady whose husband died a couple of years ago and left her with almost nothing. Despite living in the UK for 18 years her English is very poor and since I speak Thai I've helped her claim Pension Credit and Housing Benefit.

She now gets Pension Credit of about £200/week and enough housing benefit to rent a room - which is clean and modern. Of course she also gets free medical, dental etc.

Despite the fact that she could easily return to family in Thailand she wants to stay in the UK.  She has some Thai friends and seem to like her life in the UK.

[JimTripper]

4 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

I knew an she did not want to come because she did not like the idea that she would not be able to understand what the people around her were saying... 

 

I think many people are afraid... 

not speaking the language is a good reason. many people are social and pigeon english and pointing to the menu does not cut the mustard unless you're already kind of a loner and enjoy your own company.

[Jingthing]

35 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

I'm in the UK right now and have recently been helping a 66 year old Thai lady whose husband died a couple of years ago and left her with almost nothing. Despite living in the UK for 18 years her English is very poor and since I speak Thai I've helped her claim Pension Credit and Housing Benefit.

She now gets Pension Credit of about £200/week and enough housing benefit to rent a room - which is clean and modern. Of course she also gets free medical, dental etc.

Despite the fact that she could easily return to family in Thailand she wants to stay in the UK.  She has some Thai friends and seem to like her life in the UK.

Yeah, OK.

So she's financially sorted now and prefers the UK.

But I suppose the story would be different if she wasn't. 

[bignok]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Yeah, OK.

So she's financially sorted now and prefers the UK.

But I suppose the story would be different if she wasn't. 

Whatever suits. Not everyone likes Asian culture. I do. I sometimes think I was Thai in a previous life as I find it easy to fit in.

[FruitPudding]

On 10/21/2023 at 3:10 PM, EchoPlus said:

Not everything is about money or purchase power.

Most people want to stay in the place they call home.

You need a peculiar mindset to go die in a country where most people don't even speak your language, infrastructure sucks and your family ain't around. Most people retiring in Thailand are in a way or another, deep down inside, sad and lonely individuals. I mean no disrespect. It's just the truth.

 

Then, the viagra stops working or even worse, his wife takes out a life insurance policy on him, and he knows it's all been for nothing. 

 

I mean some retirees have blood relatives here so maybe they have some meaning.

[FruitPudding]

5 minutes ago, bignok said:

Whatever suits. Not everyone likes Asian culture. I do. I sometimes think I was Thai in a previous life as I find it easy to fit in.

This is priceless.  🤣 

[Northstar1]

5 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

most gofundme pages are from moron tourists that come unstuck on a scooter they are not licenced to ride.

No they aren’t, many from old men trying to get home for medical attention 

[HauptmannUK]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah, OK.

So she's financially sorted now and prefers the UK.

But I suppose the story would be different if she wasn't. 

She's 'financially sorted' because she gets financial assistance from the UK government. This same help is available to ALL legal residents of retirement age.  A British pensioner living in Thailand who only has a frozen UK state pension to live on will find life increasingly difficult as the years pass, and serious health problems (which come to most of us sooner or later) will likely be financially devastating and mean no more visa extension. Life on the breadline is no fun anywhere in the world.