Do you think (most) financially struggling western retirees are stupid for not retiring abroad?

[BusyB]

29 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I'm from California, went back four times a year, and felt like kissing the ground when I got off the plane. I go once a year now and dread it. 

 

'Dread'?

 

I haven't lived in the UK for a long time and rarely return. But 'dread' visiting? No.

 

My last visit left me feeling sad and reaffirmed the label 'rip-off' (and cheap and tacky) Britain. Fortunately I live quite well where I am, and still like LOS for long stretches (and boy can LOS be cheap and tacky at times). I like the climate, the beaches, most people, the temples and the food. Have a retirement extension organized without an agent. Not running from anything.

 

But sticking to Jingthing's OP: If I was living in the UK on a UK state pension I'd almost certainly be overstaying in Thailand in a 4k bargirl box in Pattaya as long as I possibly could 🤣. Infinitely better than bronchitis in a cold Blackpool attic and the food bank.

Edited October 24, 2023 by BusyB

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, ChrisKC said:

The answer to the direct question posed is NO!

 

Some people would be stupid if they did retire overseas without properly understanding what a complete change surroundings would actually be like. For many, habits of a lifetime might not fit well with the difference in culture, language and real life situations that have to be managed.

 

Any amount of research will only provide a means of personal perception or an image that may come crashing down from sooner than expected experiences.

 

It's a step too far for most people and I think they would be scared of the unknown, compared with what they know of their current circumstances - "better the devil they know..."

If the "devil they know" is <deleted>ting in a bucket with no roof over their head, many would be well served to seek an escape hatch which with even basic income is available in a number of coutries.

[BusyB]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If the "devil they know" is <deleted>ting in a bucket with no roof over their head, many would be well served to seek an escape hatch which with even basic income is available in a number of coutries.

 

Dunno. If you can't get your act together where you come from (excluding war, famine, drought etc., and most certainly in developed countries) chances are you'll be even worse off in a strange place where you don't even speak the language. You always take yourself with you.

 

Takes a fair level of drive, grit and ability to set up in another country at any age or stage of life. Those with no roof and using deleted buckets usually don't possess those characteristics. (Without being judgmental about that fact.)

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by BusyB

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, BusyB said:

 

Dunno. If you can't get your act together where you come from (excluding war, famine, drought etc., and most certainly in developed countries) chances are you'll be even worse off in a strange place where you don't even speak the language. You always take yourself with you.

 

Takes a fair level of drive, grit and ability to set up in another country at any age or stage of life. Those with no roof and using deleted buckets usually don't possess those characteristics. (Without being judgmental about that fact.)

 

 

 

I completely disagree. Many or most of the people surviving on the road in such conditions have more grit in their pinky than your more fortunate typical American couch potato. 

[BusyB]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I completely disagree. Many or most of the people surviving on the road in such conditions have more grit in their pinky than your more fortunate typical American couch potato. 

 

You mean they like living like that? I think the operative word there is 'fortunate' 😉

 

Strikes me that both are stuck in ruts. And like I said that's without being judgmental. 

 

And like I said in another post just above - if I was living in a Blackpool loft on a UK state pension, you can bet your backside to a dime I'd relocate and live as long on overstay as I could in a 4k bargirl box in Pattaya. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by BusyB

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, BusyB said:

 

You mean they like living like that?

That's a myth. 

Most living like that are not mentally ill (but may become mentally ill because of the harsh conditions) and simply can't afford housing.

Homelessness is solved by homes.

The US doesn't offer affordable homes.

Lower cost countries do if you have a basic western sourced income.

Some western expats are living OK in Cambodia on 600 a month.

I suggest more but that means there are options even for those with very low incomes (and of course setup and buffer money, etc.).

[BusyB]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That's a myth. 

Most living like that are not mentally ill (but may become mentally ill because of the harsh conditions) and simply can't afford housing.

Homelessness is solved by homes.

The US doesn't offer affordable homes.

Lower cost countries do if you have a basic western sourced income.

Some western expats are living OK in Cambodia on 600 a month.

I suggest more but that means there are options even for those with very low incomes (and of course setup and buffer money, etc.).

 

Actually I'm agreeing with you. I'd certainly be off to Thailand or similar if I was stuck with a UK pension in the UK. And yes homelessness can affect actually anybody very quickly. The question is though how you respond. Some buy tents, some go to welfare, some go to Pattaya ;D  

 

Some always fall through the net. The question is how a country deals with it. The Anglo-Saxon ones aren't exactly glowing examples - I was reading earlier 4 million DESTITUTE in the UK. That is deeply deeply shameful. 

 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, BusyB said:

 

Actually I'm agreeing with you. I'd certainly be off to Thailand or similar if I was stuck with a UK pension in the UK. And yes homelessness can affect actually anybody very quickly. The question is though how you respond. Some buy tents, some go to welfare, some go to Pattaya ;D  

 

Some always fall through the net. The question is how a country deals with it. The Anglo-Saxon ones aren't exactly glowing examples - I was reading earlier 4 million DESTITUTE in the UK. That is deeply deeply shameful. 

 

Obviously there is no perfect solution for all.

But a lot of the impoverished in the West retirees have incomes even as "much" as 1500 to 2000 a month. Yeah you could scrape by in cheapest areas with 2000 but living abroad you could be having a great life.

But 1000 is more than OK to at least survive -- abroad in some places.

 

[BusyB]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Obviously there is no perfect solution for all.

But a lot of the impoverished in the West retirees have incomes even as "much" as 1500 to 2000 a month. Yeah you could scrape by in cheapest areas with 2000 but living abroad you could be having a great life.

But 1000 is more than OK to at least survive -- abroad in some places.

 

 

UK State Pension is GBP203.85/week, which works out at 873/month. That's THB38000 ... more than enough to survive on living in a bargirl box. But nowhere near enough for the retirement extension - even if the embassy were still issuing (honest) income certificates. It'd have to be overstay tactics, border hops etc. I'm assuming on that budget you can't cavort around on airlines very much.

 

And you can't afford to get very sick either.

Edited October 24, 2023 by BusyB

[save the frogs]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But 1000 is more than OK to at least survive -- abroad in some places.

health insurance or medical expenses can offset lower cost of living.

 

people who don't have savings in retirement in their home country often take on part-time jobs.

 

 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

health insurance or medical expenses can offset lower cost of living.

 

people who don't have savings in retirement in their home country often take on part-time jobs.

 

 

Everyone's situation is different. 

[BusyB]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Everyone's situation is different. 

 

Thinking about it I guess I'd go for the Philippines if I was dependent on a UK state pension ... much easier visa conditions so one less worry.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, BusyB said:

 

Thinking about it I guess I'd go for the Philippines if I was dependent on a UK state pension ... much easier visa conditions so one less worry.

Well it seems better than Cambodia anyway!

I recently learned there is no Lazada or Shoppee in Cambodia.

[BusyB]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well it seems better than Cambodia anyway!

I recently learned there is no Lazada or Shoppee in Cambodia.

 

Oh dear ...

 

Yeah, Cambo might be an option too ...

Edited October 24, 2023 by BusyB

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, BusyB said:

 

'Dread'?

 

I haven't lived in the UK for a long time and rarely return. But 'dread' visiting? No.

 

My last visit left me feeling sad and reaffirmed the label 'rip-off' (and cheap and tacky) Britain. Fortunately I live quite well where I am, and still like LOS for long stretches (and boy can LOS be cheap and tacky at times). I like the climate, the beaches, most people, the temples and the food. Have a retirement extension organized without an agent. Not running from anything.

 

But sticking to Jingthing's OP: If I was living in the UK on a UK state pension I'd almost certainly be overstaying in Thailand in a 4k bargirl box in Pattaya as long as I possibly could 🤣. Infinitely better than bronchitis in a cold Blackpool attic and the food bank.

I don't dread the visit, I have family and friends and always have a good time, I just dread going and see what it has become. 

 

I was always going to move back when I retired, would not move back on a bet now. 

[stewartsmile]

I am very happy I made the move recently, (first post)

[Felton Jarvis]

The term "stupid" is a bit strong. Most Americans, for example, do not have a passport and have never traveled outside the country. It's a daunting task, even if you know what you're doing. I started thinking along these lines when I turned 30. I kept seeing advertisements about retiring in Mexico very cheaply. As time moved on, I discovered Costa Rica and finally Thailand. After 18 trips here, I decided this would be where I would retire. I didn't realize that things were about to get much more complicated after the American Embassy quit issuing Statutory Declarations of Income. The constant changes keep many retirees from moving here. Cambodia will be my next stop if they make it impossible for me to continue living here. Immigration is working hard to do exactly that.

[Spock]

On 10/21/2023 at 8:57 PM, Ralf001 said:

Be better to piss the air ticket money up the wall and self euthanize here when you feel the time has come.

Self euthanizing is not that easy.

[Prubangboy]

14 hours ago, carnifex said:

As I said, it’s a more complicated issue, but complicated explanations don’t usually make their way into political talking points.

 

I would be curious to see the percentage of Europeans who have traveled outside of Europe for the sake of comparison.

I lived in England as an American. Much was made of their worldly travel savvy compared to us yokel-yanks. But where were they mostly going?

 

To the cheap end of nearby beach-dom: Benadorm, Crete, Ibiza, Tenerife. All of these places are renowned for their museums and intellectual stimulation. And that's when they weren't going to Clacton On The Sea for the millionth time.

 

I met very few brits who'd been to both Wales and Scotland (with Wales, the Mississippi of the UK, given a wide miss).

 

So, Yank or Euro, even going to Thailand to a major tourist center is a tiny amount of people. Chiang Mai? The bravest of the bravest. Any other Chiang fill-in-the-blank? Pretty rare.

[orchis]

49 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Everyone's situation is different. 

and that's why no one can in general say that "financially struggling western retirees are stupid for not retiring abroad".

[Ralf001]

13 minutes ago, Spock said:

Self euthanizing is not that easy.

 

Not hard to buy a pistol if you are motivated.

[Prubangboy]

2 hours ago, BusyB said:

 

 

 

Takes a fair level of drive, grit and ability to set up in another country at any age or stage of life.

 

(Without being judgmental about that fact.)

 

 

 

A reasonable alternative to drive and ability is just to be an unusually unemcumbered person.

 

I'm in that category; there is nothing for me to go back to America for. That's not a sad story, that's just how things sorted out very amicably over time.

 

Bob said, When you got nothin' you got nothin; to lose

Kris said, Freedom's just another word for nothin' lose

 

A lot of the people on this board and who I meet here have at least one foot in that kind of poetic existence.

[Adumbration]

On 10/21/2023 at 3:36 PM, bignok said:

Nong Khai has 3,500 baht a month rooms. Get yourself a 30yo gf. 

Everywhere has 3k5 rooms.  Phuket, Samui, Thonglor,....everywhere.

 

Most places also have 1k5 rooms.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Adumbration

[bignok]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Well it seems better than Cambodia anyway!

I recently learned there is no Lazada or Shoppee in Cambodia.

Oh dear

[simon43]

[quote]

...

. Infinitely better than bronchitis in a cold Blackpool attic and the food bank.

...

[/quote]

 

Lol, that was me back in February when I had to go back to the UK for cancer investigation.  Living in a mouldy hotel room in Blackpool for 3 months. I didn't have to rely on food banks (I mostly eat fresh fruit/veg which is similar price to Thailand. A bitter experience in the UK and it took me about 2 months to recover back in Thailand/Laos from the bronchitus!

[Jingthing]

38 minutes ago, orchis said:

and that's why no one can in general say that "financially struggling western retirees are stupid for not retiring abroad".

For discussion purposes you can.

[bignok]

59 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

I lived in England as an American. Much was made of their worldly travel savvy compared to us yokel-yanks. But where were they mostly going?

 

To the cheap end of nearby beach-dom: Benadorm, Crete, Ibiza, Tenerife. All of these places are renowned for their museums and intellectual stimulation. And that's when they weren't going to Clacton On The Sea for the millionth time.

 

I met very few brits who'd been to both Wales and Scotland (with Wales, the Mississippi of the UK, given a wide miss).

 

So, Yank or Euro, even going to Thailand to a major tourist center is a tiny amount of people. Chiang Mai? The bravest of the bravest. Any other Chiang fill-in-the-blank? Pretty rare.

Yanks in Nong Khai. Odd yank in places like NST. Plenty of yanks in Udon and Ubon.

Edited October 24, 2023 by bignok

[Bobthegimp]

37 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

A lot of the people on this board and who I meet here have at least one foot in that kind of poetic existence

 

Back in 2011 I met an Indian/Aussie guy and his white Aussie wife who were building a house in Pattaya.  Both were great people to talk and joke with.  The guy was making very good money as a crane operator and debating whether to retire early or carry on filling his bank account. I have no idea what he ended up doing. 

 

One day we got a chance to have a talk when his wife wasn't around. He told me that the happiest time in his life was when he had almost nothing and spent a year training Muay Thai in Pattaya.  He lived in a small fan room, didn't drink and spent the year working on his fitness and skills.  There's no doubt that he loved his wife, he'd just gotten comfortable and lost the fire. 

[Prubangboy]

7 minutes ago, bignok said:

Yanks in Nong Khai. Plenty of yanks in Udon and Ubon.

Due to the Trump Trash factor, fellow Americans are assumed guilty until proven innocent.

 

Canadians too, albeit unfairly. You can't be too careful.

 

Half my acquaintances in CM are Chinese on the elite visa, doing something marijuana-related.

 

If a guy from Blackpool feels liberated here, imagine an accountant form Shenzen who just bought his first bong.

 

Thai GF next, must be a pothead. Many, many local women are willing to fulfill this role.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Prubangboy

[bignok]

1 minute ago, Prubangboy said:

Due to the Trump Trash factor, fellow Americans are assumed guilty until proven innocent.

 

Canadians too, albeit unfairly. You can't be too careful.

 

Half my acquaintances in CM are Chinese on the elite visa, doing something marijuana-related.

 

If a guy from Blackpool feels liberated here, imagine a guy from an accountant form Shenzen who just just bought his first bong. 

No issues with yanks. Those guys north of Spain though...