Not the time for a ceasefire in Gaza, says US, with Hamas still holding hostages

[Morch]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Where are all the Arab brothers? The neighboring Arab countries have done nothing to help Palenstine.

Israel 🇮🇱 have done more good 👍 for Gaza than all the Arabs combined. 

 

17 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Oh dear, I hope you are just trolling and don't really believe this. Do you support the Apartheid in Israel, is this helping Palestinians?

 

 

 

Sources: Hamas leaders hiding in basement of Israel-built hospital in Gaza

https://web.archive.org/web/20090313095323/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html

[transam]

40 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

They have been bombing indiscriminately. Many part of Gaza are flat. They are doing as much killing as they can, without causing other nations to attack them. If they didn't have the support of the Yanks, they wouldn't dare carry out this mass ethnic cleansing.

Shame on you for condoning what Israel are doing. 

YOU, are posting misinformation, YOU, are not reading the facts, YOU, have just jumped on a bandwagon, which is what, YOU usually do.......

 

 

[bannork]

Did Netanyahu support Hamas to weaken the Palestinian authorities and prevent the creation of a Palestinian state?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

[Hanaguma]

There would be a ceasefire in an instant if;

 

Hamas surrendered

All hostages were released

The terrorist infrastructure under Gaza was destroyed.

[placeholder]

Arab States Intensify Pleas for Gaza Cease-fire as Public Anger Mounts

Facing growing anger from their own people, Arab countries are intensifying their appeals to the United States to pressure Israel to implement an immediate cease-fire in Gaza or risk sabotaging the security of the entire Middle East.

Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt have all implored American officials, including Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken, to get Israel to halt its military assault...

As unrest spills into the streets and fear spreads that Iran-backed militias in the region will enter more directly into the conflict, some Arab leaders are worrying for their own security, said Elham Fakhro, an associate fellow at Chatham House’s Middle East and North Africa Program.

https://archive.ph/EKRhM

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/07/world/middleeast/gaza-ceasefire-egypt-saudi-arabia.html

 

[Yellowtail]

7 hours ago, Neeranam said:

They have been bombing indiscriminately. Many part of Gaza are flat. They are doing as much killing as they can, without causing other nations to attack them. If they didn't have the support of the Yanks, they wouldn't dare carry out this mass ethnic cleansing.

Shame on you for condoning what Israel are doing. 

Still lying I see. Do you have anything at that supports your claims? 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Arab States Intensify Pleas for Gaza Cease-fire as Public Anger Mounts

Facing growing anger from their own people, Arab countries are intensifying their appeals to the United States to pressure Israel to implement an immediate cease-fire in Gaza or risk sabotaging the security of the entire Middle East.

Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt have all implored American officials, including Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken, to get Israel to halt its military assault...

As unrest spills into the streets and fear spreads that Iran-backed militias in the region will enter more directly into the conflict, some Arab leaders are worrying for their own security, said Elham Fakhro, an associate fellow at Chatham House’s Middle East and North Africa Program.

https://archive.ph/EKRhM

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/07/world/middleeast/gaza-ceasefire-egypt-saudi-arabia.html

 

 

Are you going to read what you link to and comment on them or (as usual) just google-up a few good headlines and link to them? 

 

Incidentally, should your post not be in quotes? 

[Morch]

Funny how them worried Arab nations aren't very busy beseeching (or applying pressure) on Hamas to ask for a ceasefire, release the hostages or anything else.

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

Funny how them worried Arab nations aren't very busy beseeching (or applying pressure) on Hamas to ask for a ceasefire, release the hostages or anything else.

Have they not provided humanitarian support and taken in all the fleeing Palestinian refugees? 

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Have they not provided humanitarian support and taken in all the fleeing Palestinian refugees? 

 

Some humanitarian support, yes - and more to come. Refugees, obviously not.

[placeholder]

24 minutes ago, Morch said:

Funny how them worried Arab nations aren't very busy beseeching (or applying pressure) on Hamas to ask for a ceasefire, release the hostages or anything else.

I think the article makes it very clear why that's the case. You need it spelled out for you?  And just for the sake of fantasy, if Hamas did agree to a plea from Arab states where to  withdraw, given that according to Israel they're largely surrounded, where would they withdraw to? The center of the earth?

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I think the article makes it very clear why that's the case. You need it spelled out for you?  And just for the sake of fantasy, if Hamas did agree to a plea from Arab states where to  withdraw, given that according to Israel they're largely surrounded, where would they withdraw to? The center of the earth?

What in the article makes it very clear why that's the case? 

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I think the article makes it very clear why that's the case. You need it spelled out for you?  And just for the sake of fantasy, if Hamas did agree to a plea from Arab states where to  withdraw, given that according to Israel they're largely surrounded, where would they withdraw to? The center of the earth?

 

I think that if they wanted to contact Hamas and have a quiet word, it wouldn't be too hard. And again, you tend to present things as if there are no choices - when it's obvious that there are, and obvious the easier (if not necessarily more effective) path is chosen. Tough times call for tough decisions, which may indeed carry a price. That's how it works.

 

There were various ideas floated (and previously linked) regarding Hamas releasing hostages and evacuating the Gaza Strip (in the same way the PLO situation in Beirut). I don't know how realistic or acceptable that is to parties, but giving it as an example to address your question.

 

Seems like your basic notion is that any expectations from the Palestinians, Arab countries, or Hamas should be minimal. Sounds like excuses and free passes to me.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I think that if they wanted to contact Hamas and have a quiet word, it wouldn't be too hard. And again, you tend to present things as if there are no choices - when it's obvious that there are, and obvious the easier (if not necessarily more effective) path is chosen. Tough times call for tough decisions, which may indeed carry a price. That's how it works.

 

There were various ideas floated (and previously linked) regarding Hamas releasing hostages and evacuating the Gaza Strip (in the same way the PLO situation in Beirut). I don't know how realistic or acceptable that is to parties, but giving it as an example to address your question.

 

Seems like your basic notion is that any expectations from the Palestinians, Arab countries, or Hamas should be minimal. Sounds like excuses and free passes to me.

Israel has them surrounded and is bent on destroying them. How could Hamas withdraw? What quiet word, apart from Abracadabra, could make that happen? This situation isn't like the PLO situation in Beirut. Israel is motivated not just by strategic reasons but also by the desire of Israelis for vengeance.  For much the same considerations, the Arab leaders can't be seen by their inflamed populace to be siding in any way with Israel. As the article notes, these regimes are fearful for their survival. Anyway, Netanyahu has made release of the hostages a precondition for negotiations. Not much of an incentive. But who knows, maybe in a few weeks that will change.

[placeholder]

19 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What in the article makes it very clear why that's the case? 

Actually, one of the paragraphs I quoted:

"As unrest spills into the streets and fear spreads that Iran-backed militias in the region will enter more directly into the conflict, some Arab leaders are worrying for their own security, said Elham Fakhro, an associate fellow at Chatham House’s Middle East and North Africa Program."

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Incidentally, should your post not be in quotes? 

Given your previously demonstrated ability to see in texts what isn't there, you should have no problem visualizing quotation marks.

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually, one of the paragraphs I quoted:

"As unrest spills into the streets and fear spreads that Iran-backed militias in the region will enter more directly into the conflict, some Arab leaders are worrying for their own security, said Elham Fakhro, an associate fellow at Chatham House’s Middle East and North Africa Program."

Yet they do not quote any of the Arab leaders. Telling that. 

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Israel has them surrounded and is bent on destroying them. How could Hamas withdraw? What quiet word, apart from Abracadabra, could make that happen? This situation isn't like the PLO situation in Beirut. Israel is motivated not just by strategic reasons but also by the desire of Israelis for vengeance.  For much the same considerations, the Arab leaders can't be seen by their inflamed populace to be siding in any way with Israel. As the article notes, these regimes are fearful for their survival. Anyway, Netanyahu has made release of the hostages a precondition for negotiations. Not much of an incentive. But who knows, maybe in a few weeks that will change.

 

The idea I mentioned was apparently floated by Israeli leaders, or those close to them. I did not say it was necessarily acceptable or doable, but it does demonstrate that the 'no choice' line of thinking you seem to adhere to can be questioned. Israel and Israeli leaders may very well want Hamas leaders hanged in the city square and all that - but as previous posts detailed, this might not happen - not if some deal regarding the hostages materializes.

 

A quiet word could be anything from leaning harder on Qatar, giving Hamas leadership assurances of safe passage/hosting and so on. Same way that them Arab countries talk to the USA and Israel. It's called diplomacy.

 

Your constant 'cannot' is not true. It's a choice they are making. Also, they do not have to be on Israel's side. They just need to pressure Hamas into a different position.

 

Netanyahu says a whole lot of things. I doubt that by now anyone takes his words at face value. He also said he'll dismantle Hamas rule back in 2008.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Oh dear, I hope you are just trolling and don't really believe this. Do you support the Apartheid in Israel, is this helping Palestinians?

 

Yeah! Perhaps someone can explain how 30 years of oppression is good for Palestinians, not to mention 6,000 bombs and counting.

 

The cracks are staring to show in Europe. As seen on Al Jazeera a Spanish minister heavily criticizing israel and Belgium making unfriendly noises.

Hopefully more join in smartish.

Sanctions sound a good way to start.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/8/deafening-silence-spanish-minister-calls-on-europe-to-sanction-israel

Spain’s Ione Belarra: Israel must end ‘genocide’ of Palestinians in Gaza

 

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231108-belgium-wants-sanctions-against-israel-for-gaza-bombings-deputy-pm/

Belgium wants sanctions against Israel for Gaza bombings - deputy PM

[Skipalongcassidy]

On 10/25/2023 at 5:22 PM, Morch said:

 

Apparently you're way off mark. And reluctant to address points raised. A link to general resource about the Gaza Strip? Seriously?

 

 

It is a fact that one cannot reason with fools...

[thaibeachlovers]

As heard on Al Jazeera, the new buzz word is a "humanitarian pause" to allow a trickle of aid into Gaza before continuing to blow the Gazan's up. Apparently the israelis have agreed to that, but Biden must have been putting a lot of pressure on netanyahu to get even that.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2023/11/09/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-11-09-2023/8b0a6d66-7ec3-11ee-b5cc-66c30a3bbb91_story.html

U.S. President Joe Biden’s administration says Israel will allow a 4-hour humanitarian pause each day in combat operations in northern Gaza to allow civilians to flee to the south, starting on Thursday.

 

Also seen on Al Jazeera is Macron IMO trying to walk back his all in gung ho meeting with netanyahu by making a speech about how Palestinian civilians must be protected. Perhaps 3,000 dead children is finally making a difference.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2023/11/09/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-11-09-2023/8b0a6d66-7ec3-11ee-b5cc-66c30a3bbb91_story.html

In Europe, French President Emmanuel Macron has opened a Gaza aid conference with an appeal for Israel to protect civilians, saying that “all lives have equal worth” and that fighting terrorism “can never be carried out without rules.”

 

Meanwhile in the West Bank there is apparently a big fight going on in a refugee camp. Seems the Palestinians have had enough of the raids that leave destruction and death behind and are fighting back. Looks like the Americans will have to send a few more bombs if the plan is to extend the bombing to the West Bank as well.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/9/deadly-assault-on-jenin-refugee-camp-as-west-bank-raids-intensify

Intense fighting was reported in the camp on Thursday. Black smoke was seen rising over the city amid multiple explosions and gunfire.

 

Further afield, the war is now being exported to Iraq and Syria, with attacks on American bases.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-targets-iraq-syria-attacked-10-times-since-thursday-rcna123831

There have been at least 38 attacks against bases with U.S. personnel since Oct. 17. Three defense officials say most of the weekend attacks came via one-way drones and rockets.

 

Looks like those US aircraft carriers may be getting the chance to show their stuff, and the 1% must be wetting themselves at the prospect of even more weapon sales.

Are US National Guard members worrying that they may be returning to the warm countries pretty soon?

Biden may get the chance to have his very own war!

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As heard on Al Jazeera, the new buzz word is a "humanitarian pause" to allow a trickle of aid into Gaza before continuing to blow the Gazan's up. Apparently the israelis have agreed to that, but Biden must have been putting a lot of pressure on netanyahu to get even that.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2023/11/09/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-11-09-2023/8b0a6d66-7ec3-11ee-b5cc-66c30a3bbb91_story.html

U.S. President Joe Biden’s administration says Israel will allow a 4-hour humanitarian pause each day in combat operations in northern Gaza to allow civilians to flee to the south, starting on Thursday.

 

Also seen on Al Jazeera is Macron IMO trying to walk back his all in gung ho meeting with netanyahu by making a speech about how Palestinian civilians must be protected. Perhaps 3,000 dead children is finally making a difference.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2023/11/09/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-11-09-2023/8b0a6d66-7ec3-11ee-b5cc-66c30a3bbb91_story.html

In Europe, French President Emmanuel Macron has opened a Gaza aid conference with an appeal for Israel to protect civilians, saying that “all lives have equal worth” and that fighting terrorism “can never be carried out without rules.”

 

Meanwhile in the West Bank there is apparently a big fight going on in a refugee camp. Seems the Palestinians have had enough of the raids that leave destruction and death behind and are fighting back. Looks like the Americans will have to send a few more bombs if the plan is to extend the bombing to the West Bank as well.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/9/deadly-assault-on-jenin-refugee-camp-as-west-bank-raids-intensify

Intense fighting was reported in the camp on Thursday. Black smoke was seen rising over the city amid multiple explosions and gunfire.

 

Further afield, the war is now being exported to Iraq and Syria, with attacks on American bases.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-targets-iraq-syria-attacked-10-times-since-thursday-rcna123831

There have been at least 38 attacks against bases with U.S. personnel since Oct. 17. Three defense officials say most of the weekend attacks came via one-way drones and rockets.

 

Looks like those US aircraft carriers may be getting the chance to show their stuff, and the 1% must be wetting themselves at the prospect of even more weapon sales.

Are US National Guard members worrying that they may be returning to the warm countries pretty soon?

Biden may get the chance to have his very own war!

You can only hope. 

[sirineou]

On 10/24/2023 at 9:33 AM, Social Media said:

The US has said now is not the time for a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas,

Sure, not while there are still a few Palestinians left. 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Sure, not while there are still a few Palestinians left. 

It is curious that President Biden (apparently) supports the extermination of the Palestinian people, why do you suppose that is? I'm not a big fan of the President, but I never would have believed it before now. 

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

It is curious that President Biden (apparently) supports the extermination of the Palestinian people, why do you suppose that is? I'm not a big fan of the President, but I never would have believed it before now. 

It is not only Biden, every president has provided tacid support . And in a way I don't blame them. 

Washington is part of the Israeli occupied territories. It is described as the third rail of American politics. 

Touch it and you die. This is an undeniable fact of life in the US.

So Biden as did every other president , has an agenda, of thing he will like to accomplish in his term.

But to dance, you need to be invited to the dance. Having an agenda while sitting in your underwear in your basements , well...............

Politics requires compromise, and The first thing one compromises when one gets into politics is one's self. 

 

[Bkk Brian]

A full ceasefire = A gift to the terrorists

 

 

[Yellowtail]

29 minutes ago, sirineou said:

It is not only Biden, every president has provided tacid support . And in a way I don't blame them. 

Washington is part of the Israeli occupied territories. It is described as the third rail of American politics. 

Touch it and you die. This is an undeniable fact of life in the US.

So Biden as did every other president , has an agenda, of thing he will like to accomplish in his term.

But to dance, you need to be invited to the dance. Having an agenda while sitting in your underwear in your basements , well...............

Politics requires compromise, and The first thing one compromises when one gets into politics is one's self. 

 

Okay, so to be clear, it is your position that President Biden, and President Obama, and President Clinton and President Carter all support the extermination of the Palestinian people, correct? 

 

Note: I did not include any recent Republicans because I think we all know that they all support the extermination of all people everywhere. 

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Okay, so to be clear, it is your position that President Biden, and President Obama, and President Clinton and President Carter all support the extermination of the Palestinian people, correct? 

 

Note: I did not include any recent Republicans because I think we all know that they all support the extermination of all people everywhere. 

Not supported, but unwillingly being part of it. 

it is really a very simple proposition and the evidence is clear.

The US provides foreign aid to many countries, they use such aid to influence some of the policies of such countries.

Do X or we will withhold aid. 

Israel is by far the largest recipient of foreign aid every year.  One would think that they get it because they are the poorest and most in need. 

But if a n administration  was in explicit opposition of Israeli policies. why have the vever made such aid contingent to adjustment in policy? 

I will tell you why, because no administration will survive such move. The might want to, but if they want to stay in the game and do some of the other things they want to do., they must do this.

look at the map , does any reasonable person think that the Palestinian map could support an independents country? 

Sorry about the pupos no time to proofread, heading for Immigration to get a re-entry stamp for my christmas trip

 

 

[Dcheech]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

It is curious that President Biden (apparently) supports the extermination of the Palestinian people, why do you suppose that is? I'm not a big fan of the President, but I never would have believed it before now. 

 

Biden has believed in a two-state solution for decades. Of course Bibi tossed turds at Obama (and Biden) back in Obama’s terms in office. Both of them hated Bibi the ‘puck’ back then. Did you miss that? Watching American Idol back then?

 

The fact that the Arab world and friends are getting hysterical  about all this is expected. They go back to their first love; head-pounding, and miss the fact vast parts of the non muslim world, despise what they did to start this, targeting civilians, butchering children, taking prisoners for blood sport sacrifice & woohoo, what fun! Hiding among the Palestinian people to get a big body count, pump the Muslim hysteria buttons. 

 

Biden is the only one who has tried to get some type of cease fire. Coincidentally that is when Hamas blew up the hospital, they say an errant missile. Good chance it was a deliberate strike to derail any chance of Biden putting together a cease fire. Hamas could care less about civilian deaths. Slow Joe should just step  back and let the Chinese, Iranians, Arab league, Russia, Saudi do something. Besides talking a lot, they are not going to do dog-snot, as it might cost them money. As for the Head pounders, they started this, now deal with it. Yawn.

 

Meanwhile Thursday night football is on. 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Dcheech said:

The fact that the Arab world and friends are getting hysterical  about all this is expected. They go back to their first love; head-pounding, and miss the fact vast parts of the non muslim world, despise what they did to start this, targeting civilians, butchering children, taking prisoners for blood sport sacrifice & woohoo, what fun! Hiding among the Palestinian people to get a big body count, pump the Muslim hysteria buttons. 

but apparently vast parts of the non muslim world don't care that Palestinians have been oppressed since 1948, and act all shocked when some take revenge on the people oppressing them. 

What difference is there between the French heroes of the WW2 resistance and Hamas? Both are resisting an oppressive and cruel occupier. Is it because they ain't white?

I suppose you think they should just go off and die quietly so the israelis can have it all.

 

taking prisoners for blood sport sacrifice

Sure, we all believe that BS, not.

 

Yawn.