Michael Cohen says he inflated assets to ‘whatever number Trump told us to’

[Danderman123]

6 hours ago, ukrules said:

Banks value every asset themselves and they believe nobody elses numbers.

 

So any information provided is quite literally meaningless

 

What's worth 50 million to one person might be valued at 10 million by the bank and they go with their own internal figures.

 

This is why the case will go nowhere, because it's complete nonsense.

You are joking, right?

 

What data do banks use to value assets when it comes to loan requests?

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

I started my post by saying this was political targeting.  Weaponizing government to go after only your political opponents and letting your friends go free. 

I would tell you that the ATF going after Hunter Biden for a gun application permit crime was "politically motivated"  Few if any are ever charged with lying on the ATF form.  Most prosecuted tend to be people with felony convictions who know they are not supposed to have a firearm.

With Trump, 

1. Name one just one company or individual that the New York Attorney Generals Office went to a bank without the bank filing a complaint and sought out specifically that person, or company to examine the records. 

2. Name one just one company or individual that the New York Attorney Generals Office has brought charges for inflating financial net worth when applying for a loan. 

If Trump was, and I believe it to be true THE ONLY PERSON the NY Attorney General sought any information on, that is weaponizing. 

Not any different than if the police say they are stopping drunk driving but only stop your car and not one elses. 

Name one person who's former lawyer accused him of financial fraud both in testimony and in a book who was not investigated and charged.

 

"James has credited Cohen as the impetus for her civil investigation, which led to the fraud lawsuit and trial. She cited Cohen’s testimony to Congress in 2019 that Trump had a history of misrepresenting the value of assets to gain favorable loan terms and tax benefits."  https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-letitia-james-michael-cohen-fraud-new-york-8e49619e3f5ebb6931e6947c4dabda87

[candide]

15 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Name one person who's former lawyer accused him of financial fraud both in testimony and in a book who was not investigated and charged.

 

"James has credited Cohen as the impetus for her civil investigation, which led to the fraud lawsuit and trial. She cited Cohen’s testimony to Congress in 2019 that Trump had a history of misrepresenting the value of assets to gain favorable loan terms and tax benefits."  https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-letitia-james-michael-cohen-fraud-new-york-8e49619e3f5ebb6931e6947c4dabda87

He already knows that, too.

It's like trying to fill the Danaides barrel.....

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

You are joking, right?

 

What data do banks use to value assets when it comes to loan requests?

 

No joke. The bank does their own appraisal to find out the value.

 

There's a whole licensed industry of certified appraisers / surveyors who do this job.

 

Often the person buying the house will get one done as well, the person selling the house tends to pull a random number out of their a$$ which is why this appraisal industry exists as the numbers often have no basis in reality.

 

It's only worth what either some idiot will pay for it or what a bank will lend and the bank come up with their own numbers and that's all that counts.

 

Unless you're borrowing only a small fraction of the value of a piece of real estates equity then they're getting it appraised.

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by ukrules

[rudi49jr]

3 hours ago, candide said:

Come on! Don't pretend you don't know why! You've been told a few dozens of time already!

 

https://apnews.com/article/biden-politics-united-states-government-us-department-of-justice-michael-pence-7e616d65db8a76a078d1ec9268c13a77

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/15/trump-documents-case-biden-clinton-pence.html

 

 

“You can lead a horse to water, but you can not make it drink”

 

In other words, you can present facts and evidence to MAGA cult members until you’re blue in the face, they will simply reject it and keep holding on to their alternative facts and continue to live in their la-la-land reality. 

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

 

No joke. The bank does their own appraisal to find out the value.

 

There's a whole licensed industry of certified appraisers / surveyors who do this job.

 

Often the person buying the house will get one done as well, the person selling the house tends to pull a random number out of their a$$ which is why this appraisal industry exists as the numbers often have no basis in reality.

 

It's only worth what either some idiot will pay for it or what a bank will lend and the bank come up with their own numbers and that's all that counts.

 

Unless you're borrowing only a small fraction of the value of a piece of real estates equity then they're getting it appraised.

 

You don't get it. A big part of the valuations of these assets was based on revenues generated by the properties. Outside appraisers and banks relied on fraudulent revenue data supplied by Trump.

[illisdean]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

A big part of the valuations of these assets was based on revenues generated by the properties. Outside appraisers and banks relied on fraudulent revenue data supplied by Trump.

Ok, so they did use Trumps valuations, or maybe they didn't? Do you know, or even bother to confirm your claims?

Are there not clauses in financial contracts which include disclaimers for parties to conduct their own due diligence and to not accept the claims presented? Of course there are. At any rate the Deutsche bank testified they did not rely on Trump evaluations. Even if they did, it's not up to the state AG's to suddenly become real estate appraisers and experts. Ludicrous on its face.

And likely unconstitutional.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/nyregion/trump-fraud-trial-deutsche-bank.html

 

[Danderman123]

6 minutes ago, illisdean said:

Ok, so they did use Trumps valuations, or maybe they didn't? Do you know, or even bother to confirm your claims?

Are there not clauses in financial contracts which include disclaimers for parties to conduct their own due diligence and to not accept the claims presented? Of course there are. At any rate the Deutsche bank testified they did not rely on Trump evaluations. Even if they did, it's not up to the state AG's to suddenly become real estate appraisers and experts. Ludicrous on its face.

And likely unconstitutional.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/nyregion/trump-fraud-trial-deutsche-bank.html

 

The exaggerated valuations certainly impacted interest rates.

 

More to the point, you are condoning asset valuation fraud. So much for Law and Order.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

The exaggerated valuations certainly impacted interest rates.

 

More to the point, you are condoning asset valuation fraud. So much for Law and Order.

How does one exaggerate the revenue on an income statement without paying additional taxes? 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Yellowtail

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

How does one exaggerate the revenue on an income statement without paying additional taxes? 

 

 

Wow. You really don't understand any of this.

 

What Trump reported to banks about revenues from his properties had nothing to do with payments to the IRS. In fact, that's the heart of the fraud - he told the banks he was making big money while telling the IRS he was losing money.

 

If you seriously don't understand this, I will walk you through it.

 

I suspect your next response will be that he was a smart businessman.

 

But then, he got caught, and here we are.

[illisdean]

45 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

What Trump reported to banks about revenues from his properties had nothing to do with payments to the IRS. In fact, that's the heart of the fraud - he told the banks he was making big money while telling the IRS he was losing money

I think you are making this up as you go along. You have some evidence or reference to this claim Trump "telling the IRS he was losing money" and exactly what the crime is in losing money? Trump AFAIK has no issues with the IRS, but maybe you know something you can share. If Trump got in front of the tax police they would skin him alive. So quit making up nonsense.

 

Focus on the one of the issues in the civil case, the recent testimony from one of Trump's biggest lenders, Deutsche Bank. These links should help walk you thru it.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-fraud-trial-victim-deutsche-bank-shuns-f-word-2023-11?op=1

https://www.businessinsider.com/except-for-fraud-donald-trump-was-good-deutsche-bank-borrower-2023-10?op=1

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by illisdean

[Georgealbert]

6 hours ago, illisdean said:

I think you are making this up as you go along. You have some evidence or reference to this claim Trump "telling the IRS he was losing money" and exactly what the crime is in losing money? Trump AFAIK has no issues with the IRS, but maybe you know something you can share. If Trump got in front of the tax police they would skin him alive. So quit making up nonsense.

 

Focus on the one of the issues in the civil case, the recent testimony from one of Trump's biggest lenders, Deutsche Bank. These links should help walk you thru it.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-fraud-trial-victim-deutsche-bank-shuns-f-word-2023-11?op=1

https://www.businessinsider.com/except-for-fraud-donald-trump-was-good-deutsche-bank-borrower-2023-10?op=1

 

But this is linked to the article you posted. The bank was so happy they decided to ‘exit its relationship with the company.’

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-secret-ugly-breakup-with-deutsche-bank-revealed-2022-10

[Danderman123]

8 hours ago, illisdean said:

I think you are making this up as you go along. You have some evidence or reference to this claim Trump "telling the IRS he was losing money" and exactly what the crime is in losing money? Trump AFAIK has no issues with the IRS, but maybe you know something you can share. If Trump got in front of the tax police they would skin him alive. So quit making up nonsense.

 

Focus on the one of the issues in the civil case, the recent testimony from one of Trump's biggest lenders, Deutsche Bank. These links should help walk you thru it.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-fraud-trial-victim-deutsche-bank-shuns-f-word-2023-11?op=1

https://www.businessinsider.com/except-for-fraud-donald-trump-was-good-deutsche-bank-borrower-2023-10?op=1

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/trump-750-taxes.html

 

Trump paid $750 to the IRS in 2017, because of the losing money thing.

 

Trump often overvalued properties for banks, and then undervalued properties for the IRS.

 

That's why there is a civil fraud trial.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Danderman123

[Danderman123]

Let's recap the bidding:

 

A few years back, Michael Cohen revealed that Trump had been commiting asset valuation fraud while applying for bank loans. Subsequently, the NY Attorney General sued Trump in civil court.

 

Trump apologists have claimed:

 

No one has even been charged with asset valuation fraud (clearly untrue).

 

The banks didn't rely on Trump's fraudulent books (clearly untrue).

 

Asset valuation fraud is not a big deal (clearly not true).

 

Any other lies from the MAGA cult followers?

[illisdean]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

The banks didn't rely on Trump's fraudulent books (clearly untrue).

Stop lying and trying to mislead with your false statements. Back up your statements with some clear evidence and corroboration or try to find another platform to fuel your insecurities and inadequacies.

 

"In 2013, the bank’s underwriters adjusted Trump’s net worth by about 50% from more than $4 billion to roughly $2.65 billion."

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/28/politics/deutsche-bank-trump-fraud-trial-testimony/index.html

 

“We are expected to conduct some due diligence and verify the information provided, to the extent that is possible,” David Williams, a banker in the wealth management group at Deutsche Bank, said on Tuesday. He said repeatedly that the bank had performed that diligence and factored its own analysis into the relationship with Mr. Trump."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/nyregion/trump-fraud-trial-deutsche-bank.html

 

David Williams, who worked on at least one of three loans Deutsche Bank made to Trump in the years before he was elected president, testified Tuesday that it’s “atypical, but not entirely unusual” for the bank to cut a client’s stated asset value by 50% and approve a loan anyway, as it did with Trump.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-28/deutsche-bank-executive-gives-trump-potential-boost-in-ny-trial

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by illisdean

[illisdean]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

No one has even been charged with asset valuation fraud (clearly untrue).

Maybe you illustrate this with some examples and actual cases.

 

Are you aware of the crime fraud statutes, and that fraud is a crime except when it isn't?

Edited December 4, 2023 by illisdean

[Danderman123]

32 minutes ago, illisdean said:

Maybe you illustrate this with some examples and actual cases.

 

Are you aware of the crime fraud statutes, and that fraud is a crime except when it isn't?

I have posted many links to charges for asset valuation fraud in New York state.

 

You are making the claim that asset valuation fraud is not a crime. That's weird.

[Danderman123]

48 minutes ago, illisdean said:

Stop lying and trying to mislead with your false statements. Back up your statements with some clear evidence and corroboration or try to find another platform to fuel your insecurities and inadequacies.

 

"In 2013, the bank’s underwriters adjusted Trump’s net worth by about 50% from more than $4 billion to roughly $2.65 billion."

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/28/politics/deutsche-bank-trump-fraud-trial-testimony/index.html

 

“We are expected to conduct some due diligence and verify the information provided, to the extent that is possible,” David Williams, a banker in the wealth management group at Deutsche Bank, said on Tuesday. He said repeatedly that the bank had performed that diligence and factored its own analysis into the relationship with Mr. Trump."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/nyregion/trump-fraud-trial-deutsche-bank.html

 

David Williams, who worked on at least one of three loans Deutsche Bank made to Trump in the years before he was elected president, testified Tuesday that it’s “atypical, but not entirely unusual” for the bank to cut a client’s stated asset value by 50% and approve a loan anyway, as it did with Trump.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-28/deutsche-bank-executive-gives-trump-potential-boost-in-ny-trial

 

Once again, many of Trump's assets were valued based on revenue streams. The only source of data for the banks were Trump's numbers.

 

Sure a bank could discount the numbers by 50%, but what if the numbers in Trump's books were off by more than 200%?

 

It is bad public policy to handwave away asset valuation fraud because you worship Orange Jesus.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Danderman123

[Eric Loh]

45 minutes ago, illisdean said:

Stop lying and trying to mislead with your false statements. Back up your statements with some clear evidence and corroboration or try to find another platform to fuel your insecurities and inadequacies.

 

"In 2013, the bank’s underwriters adjusted Trump’s net worth by about 50% from more than $4 billion to roughly $2.65 billion."

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/28/politics/deutsche-bank-trump-fraud-trial-testimony/index.html

 

“We are expected to conduct some due diligence and verify the information provided, to the extent that is possible,” David Williams, a banker in the wealth management group at Deutsche Bank, said on Tuesday. He said repeatedly that the bank had performed that diligence and factored its own analysis into the relationship with Mr. Trump."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/nyregion/trump-fraud-trial-deutsche-bank.html

 

David Williams, who worked on at least one of three loans Deutsche Bank made to Trump in the years before he was elected president, testified Tuesday that it’s “atypical, but not entirely unusual” for the bank to cut a client’s stated asset value by 50% and approve a loan anyway, as it did with Trump.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-28/deutsche-bank-executive-gives-trump-potential-boost-in-ny-trial

 

 

Suggest that you await the ruling of the motion by Trump's lawyer to toss out the case. Judge Engoron didn't rule and further said that while the lenders were happy doesn't mean that the statute wasn't violated, doesnt mean that the other statues weren't violated. "I'll take it under advertisement ' he concluded. Don't pop your champagne yet. 

[illisdean]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/trump-750-taxes.html

 

Trump paid $750 to the IRS in 2017, because of the losing money thing.

 

Trump often overvalued properties for banks, and then undervalued properties for the IRS.

 

That's why there is a civil fraud trial.

I see where Trump and the IRS clashed on asset valuations but nothing criminal or fraudulent occurred according to the civil complaint filed by James or any subsequent actions by the IRS, so in essence "blowing smoke " nothing-burgers. Show me the IRS tax fraud investigations of Trump relating to bank finance activities and fraud. There are none, there, solved again for you.

[Danderman123]

Just now, illisdean said:

I see where Trump and the IRS clashed on asset valuations but nothing criminal or fraudulent occurred according to the civil complaint filed by James or any subsequent actions by the IRS, so in essence "blowing smoke " nothing-burgers. Show me the IRS tax fraud investigations of Trump relating to bank finance activities and fraud. There are none, there, solved again for you.

The current trial is about asset valuation fraud in the state of New York, nothing to do with the IRS.

 

Trump has already been found guilty of fraud, so you are wasting your time defending him.

[illisdean]

7 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The current trial is about asset valuation fraud in the state of New York, nothing to do with the IRS.

 

Trump has already been found guilty of fraud, so you are wasting your time defending him.

 

U refer to IRS, and then obfuscate, you need to make some serious adjustments.

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by illisdean

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, illisdean said:

 

You seem convinced it's about the IRS....you are being deceptive with your statements and memory.

 

 

Wow, your Trump worship is making your brain misfire.

 

I used the example of Trump's 2017 tax return in response to a question of how much revenue Trump was making off his assets.

 

Telling the banks that the revenue stream was in the billions, but telling the IRS that it was $0 is playing fast and loose with the numbers.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Danderman123

[illisdean]

Just now, illisdean said:

Trump has already been found guilty of fraud, so you are wasting your time defending him

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/trump-750-taxes.html

 

Trump paid $750 to the IRS in 2017, because of the losing money thing.

 

Trump often overvalued properties for banks, and then undervalued properties for the IRS.

 

That's why there is a civil fraud trial.

You seem. convinced by gaslighting about the IRS in your deceptive postings absent any proof of anything you say.

[illisdean]

8 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Telling the banks that the revenue stream was in the billions, but telling the IRS that it was $0 is playing fast and loose with the numbers.

Is "fast and loose" contained within the New York Executive Law § 63(12)?

 

Or in ANY civil or criminal statutes in your world.

 

Show me where it is.

Edited December 4, 2023 by illisdean

[illisdean]

Despite all the above diatribe about New York Executive Law § 63(12) against Trump, this is about Cohen, a convicted felon and ardent advocate for "perjury".

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/10/25/trump-ex-fixer-michael-cohen-admits-to-lying-under-oath-in-testy-fraud-trial-testimony/?sh=46050c4e632d

 

 

[Danderman123]

19 minutes ago, illisdean said:

You seem. convinced by gaslighting about the IRS in your deceptive postings absent any proof of anything you say.

I posted a link to the NY Times article about Trump paying only $750 in taxes in 2017.

 

What part of that is gaslighting?

[Danderman123]

11 minutes ago, illisdean said:

Despite all the above diatribe about New York Executive Law § 63(12) against Trump, this is about Cohen, a convicted felon and ardent advocate for "perjury".

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/10/25/trump-ex-fixer-michael-cohen-admits-to-lying-under-oath-in-testy-fraud-trial-testimony/?sh=46050c4e632d

 

 

Michael Cohen's testimony in this case is a minor factor. Trump was found guilty before Cohen testified.

 

 

[Danderman123]

19 minutes ago, illisdean said:

Is "fast and loose" contained within the New York Executive Law § 63(12)?

 

Or in ANY civil or criminal statutes in your world.

 

Show me where it is.

I am using "fast and loose" rather than the legal term "fraudulent".

 

So sorry for confusing you.

 

So, how big will Trump's penalty be? $250 million? $600 million?

 

Will you send him a contribution to help him pay?

[Eric Loh]

14 minutes ago, illisdean said:

Despite all the above diatribe about New York Executive Law § 63(12) against Trump, this is about Cohen, a convicted felon and ardent advocate for "perjury".

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/10/25/trump-ex-fixer-michael-cohen-admits-to-lying-under-oath-in-testy-fraud-trial-testimony/?sh=46050c4e632d

 

 

 

How so. Cohen is not a defendant and not even considered as a key Witness.