UN’s António Guterres calls for immediate ceasefire to end ‘epic suffering’ in Gaza

[Morch]

31 minutes ago, sirineou said:

And still not a comment about the map and you accuse me of deflection?

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1310238-un’s-antónio-guterres-calls-for-immediate-ceasefire-to-end-‘epic-suffering’-in-gaza/page/2/#comment-18453904

[Morch]

28 minutes ago, sirineou said:

The American indians stayed ,fought like man and died like man they did not run away. 

And Yes I stand for the rights of all human beings be them American Indians, Palestinians , Jewish or any other creed or color.  

What do you stand for? 

 

Interesting.

Hamas leaders called on their own people to remain in their homes and face the full wrath of the Israeli assault. 

They did this while they themselves were protected and safe - in fortified bunkers under Gaza, and at luxury hotels in the Gulf.

What do you think they stand for?

[metisdead]

Some off topic deflection posts contravening our Community Standards have been removed.

[Nick Carter icp]

45 minutes ago, sirineou said:

The American indians stayed ,fought like man and died like man they did not run away. 

And Yes I stand for the rights of all human beings be them American Indians, Palestinians , Jewish or any other creed or color.  

What do you stand for? 

 

   The National Anthem at 6 PM 

[sirineou]

13 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   The National Anthem at 6 PM 

I 'v  got to say. That was funny 😂

[sirineou]

18 hours ago, Morch said:

The two-state solution was never super-popular with either side. And sure, the Israeli illegal settlement effot is a major obstacle, even if it's hardly the only issue involved.

So it begs the question, why then do the Israelis  continue with the "illegal  settlements" , 

Being popular and being an actual option are two different things

It is simply not an option.And if it is not, why do the powers to be still talk as if it is? 

So if it is not an option and the Israelis continue to expand what are the options for the Palestinians?

IMO to fight as best as they can. But I could be wrong, what do you think are the options for the Palestinians then? 

If you were In their position what would you do? 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, sirineou said:

There is no two state solution, it is simply a tactic to kick the can down the road until the Israelis have been living there for so many generations there will be a de facto  elimination of Palestine .

You often seem like a reasonable person in many of your posts.

Tell me does the map below look like it could be a viable independent nation to you? or for than matter to anyone else, Please someone answer that , I have often asked that question and no one has ever answer it, They simply move on to another issue, or comment on my choice of grammatical structure. 

 

I have often asked that question and no one has ever answer it, They simply move on to another issue, or comment on my choice of grammatical structure. 

 

I may not have responded to that specific question by you, but I have certainly said on this forum at some time that the Two State solution is dead unless the israelis withdraw entirely from the West Bank and illegally occupied East Jerusalem.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

IMO to fight as best as they can. But I could be wrong, what do you think are the options for the Palestinians then? 

If you were In their position what would you do? 

I have never seen an israeli supporter give an opinion about that on this forum. Seems they think they will just magically vanish and all will be sunshine and roses.

[2baht]

On 10/25/2023 at 4:37 PM, AgMech Cowboy said:

The United Nations’ secretary general António Guterres is an idiot and nothing more than a stooge.

 

     In need of gonad implants!

[Morch]

33 minutes ago, sirineou said:

So it begs the question, why then do the Israelis  continue with the "illegal  settlements" , 

Being popular and being an actual option are two different things

It is simply not an option.And if it is not, why do the powers to be still talk as if it is? 

So if it is not an option and the Israelis continue to expand what are the options for the Palestinians?

IMO to fight as best as they can. But I could be wrong, what do you think are the options for the Palestinians then? 

If you were In their position what would you do? 

 

It is not 'the Israelis' as a whole that's into the illegal settlement effort. It's mostly a religious right-wing thing. No wall-to-wall support.

Israeli right wing policies are not pro-peace, that's nothing new. They do not talk about a two-state solution, usually.

 

Add to that a wide perception among Israelis that there's no reliable Palestinian leadership/partner to reach an agreement with, and understand that even a Centrist-Left government would hesitate going there.

 

The powers that be talk about it because the other options are worse, or even more unrealistic. IMO its also used as a buffer - if the message would be that there's no solution and that's that - things could quickly get out of hand. So keeping up some pretenses (if that's what they are) may be a diplomatic way of addressing a volatile situation.

 

I think that the Palestinians should do several things, and I'm almost positive they won't:

 

- Achieve some level of political unity among themselves, and choose a better leadership.

- Re-asses their past choices, re-calibrate their goals and frame them according to what's achievable.

- Focus their efforts on diplomacy, mass non-violent resistance.

- Make their positions on key issues and claims as clear as possible.

 

So long as they are divided, it's easy to block any effort they make, play them against each other or use either factions' failures to discredit their 'cause'. 

 

Whatever Palestinians may dream of, some things will not happen - there will be no 'river to the sea' thing, a mass application of 'the right of return' will not be accepted, and their independence/sovereignty will be limited (at least to begin with) - other stuff as well, but we're not doing the whole list. The point is that there needs to be a more clearly detailed, realistic and fact based approach applied.

 

The Palestinians' attempts at violent 'struggle' have proved futile over the years. More so they are actually detrimental to their 'cause'. It usually strengthens Israel's narrative, damages Palestinian global image and bring further hardship to the populace. On the other hand, especially with today's social media networks, easy communications and Western attitudes - non-violence, especially on a mass scale would better make their point (and weaken Israel's narrative). This would probably go down better if Palestinian society was less conservative/restrictive, but can't have everything.

 

As far as diplomacy goes - man...where to start? First of all, stop all them sulky games. No one cares. A change of attitude from acting as if being owed, to a more realistic stance of asking for help. Pick better backers, and don't piss them off. Don't try to play other countries when you obviously can't. Choose better people as representative on a national and international level. Get in bed with the West (it's not like Russia gives a hoot or can do much, and China is not a thing yet as far as this conflict goes).

 

Broadcast a clear message - we want this, we do not accept that, we will agree to the other. So long as positions stay vague, shift about and so on, it's easy to take the narrative apart.

 

That's the short version......

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have never seen an israeli supporter give an opinion about that on this forum. Seems they think they will just magically vanish and all will be sunshine and roses.

 

You're either lying, got memory issues or put relevant posters on 'ignore'.

 

[2baht]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

That's the short version......

 

      Come on, give us the full version!

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have never seen an israeli supporter give an opinion about that on this forum. Seems they think they will just magically vanish and all will be sunshine and roses.

 

     Ignoring people leads to ignorance 

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, 2baht said:

 

      Come on, give us the full version!

 

Yeah, I know.

Wasn't really expecting much serious replies anyway.

Been there, done that.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, 2baht said:

 

     In need of gonad implants!

Actually he finally found them and called for a ceasefire. He even said that Hamas attack didn't happen in a vacuum and had the israelis apoplectic and calling for him to be prosecuted.

He even went to the Egypt Gaza crossing and demanded that more aid be sent in.

[Hanaguma]

29 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Actually he finally found them and called for a ceasefire. He even said that Hamas attack didn't happen in a vacuum and had the israelis apoplectic and calling for him to be prosecuted.

He even went to the Egypt Gaza crossing and demanded that more aid be sent in.

He might need a brain transplant though. That whole "didnt happen in a vacuum" nonsense showed clearly that he has no real understanding of what happened.  There can be no justification for mass rape, murder of children, torture, and kidnapping. Never. IF Hamas were truly a "resistance movement", then they would target the IDF.  The Israeli police.  But no, instead they chose to target the most innocent and blameless and conveniently soft targets. That shows clearly the depth of their depravity and how any negotiation with them is impossible. 

 

There WILL be a ceasefire, once Hamas is eliminated.  

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

He might need a brain transplant though. That whole "didnt happen in a vacuum" nonsense showed clearly that he has no real understanding of what happened.  There can be no justification for mass rape, murder of children, torture, and kidnapping. Never. IF Hamas were truly a "resistance movement", then they would target the IDF.  The Israeli police.  But no, instead they chose to target the most innocent and blameless and conveniently soft targets. That shows clearly the depth of their depravity and how any negotiation with them is impossible. 

 

There WILL be a ceasefire, once Hamas is eliminated.  

 

I don't think he is not aware, or not updated. That's not it.

More to do with where  he comes from (politically), and the fact that this is his final term, so can say whatever.

 

As for a ceasefire - there are increasing reports about a hostage release/trade deal mediated by Qatar. This would certainly involve a ceasefire.

[MrMojoRisin]

On 10/25/2023 at 6:25 PM, Morch said:

 

Before asking for alternatives, perhaps you'd bother to explain how Guterres's words represent a 'viable' solution?

Speaking the truth is always the first step towards a viable solution.

[Morch]

Israel reopens 2nd of 3 water pipelines flowing into Gaza Strip

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-reopens-2nd-of-3-water-pipelines-flowing-into-gaza-strip/

 

Interesting comment inside - to the effect that Hamas actually supplies hospitals with fuel, so that they keep running, thus providing shelter for Hamas facilities, bunkers etc.

[Morch]

The Gaza Strip: Thousands break into UNRWA warehouses in Gaza, taking wheat flour and basic items

https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/news-releases/gaza-strip-thousands-break-unrwa-warehouses-gaza-taking-wheat-flour-and-basic

 

That does not bode well for the next supply convoys.

 

[Yellowtail]

17 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Speaking the truth is always the first step towards a viable solution.

You should try it sometime MrBlowJoe...