Taxation of Ex-Pats pensions etc.

[LittleBear57]

There doesn't seem any real info around, but apparently this will come into effect on January 1st 2024, not far away at all. Does anyone actually know what the Taxation rate is in Thailand and is there a personal allowance free of Tax like in the UK.? It's possible Ex Pats will be able to claim their pensions tax free if you can prove tax has already been paid at country of origin. Some things are difficult to prove. I rely on income from a rented property and a small private pension and to be honest paying another 10% tax here would probably be the final straw even though I have a wife and child here. 

 

I was going to buy a car here soon to replace my old truck however I may have to put that on hold until there is some clarification on the issue. I could bring some money over before January to avoid the potential issue of the truck purchase.

 

Another case of Thailand killing the Golden Goose not satisfied with us spending our pensions here they want more.

 

What are your thoughts? 

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, LittleBear57 said:

There doesn't seem any real info around, but apparently this will come into effect on January 1st 2024, not far away at all. Does anyone actually know what the Taxation rate is in Thailand and is there a personal allowance free of Tax like in the UK.? It's possible Ex Pats will be able to claim their pensions tax free if you can prove tax has already been paid at country of origin. Some things are difficult to prove. I rely on income from a rented property and a small private pension and to be honest paying another 10% tax here would probably be the final straw even though I have a wife and child here. 

 

I was going to buy a car here soon to replace my old truck however I may have to put that on hold until there is some clarification on the issue. I could bring some money over before January to avoid the potential issue of the truck purchase.

 

Another case of Thailand killing the Golden Goose not satisfied with us spending our pensions here they want more.

 

What are your thoughts? 

My thoughts are that you should try reading any of the numerous threads that already exist on this subject rather than add yet another one! Try this one, start at the end and work back. 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1306896-thai-government-to-tax-all-income-from-abroad-for-tax-residents-starting-2024/

[WilliamSmits]

I am optimistic and think retirees will not get taxed on money transfered into Thailand. 

Alternatively, there are lots of ways to get money into Thailand without showing up in my Thai bank account.

(like taking in out of ATM with foreign card, etc. etc)

Just keeping 800.000 in an account is enough for immigration.

[DrJack54]

OP, news article today in "Pattaya Mail" ...like many similar articles it does not clarify things.

Suggest you ignore all this fuss.

Think it's aimed at certain offshore accounts rather than eg  Pensions.

 

Article header in Pattaya Mail

 

"Thai Revenue offers glimmer of clarification on tax changes"

Edited November 25, 2023 by DrJack54

[Lite Beer]

My thoughts are that you are worrying about nothing.

Not going to happen for a long time if at all.

 

Even if they did want to tax my measly frozen pension the allowances would take it out of the limits for tax.

[OJAS]

24 minutes ago, LittleBear57 said:

Does anyone actually know what the Taxation rate is in Thailand and is there a personal allowance free of Tax like in the UK.?

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/AEC/AseanTax-Thailand.pdf

 

[Lacessit]

I am wondering how the Thai authorities could possibly tax a pension paid into an account in the expat's country of origin. They have no information on where and how much it is. The other country would be unable to disclose said information without breaching data privacy laws.

 

I suspect this is a brain fart, which will be dumped as soon as it is realized the cost of pursuing payment far exceeds any returns.

[topt]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I am wondering how the Thai authorities could possibly tax a pension paid into an account in the expat's country of origin. They have no information on where and how much it is.

The original idea was to tax remittances into Thailand if you are tax resident here. Nothing to do with income kept outside the country.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, topt said:

The original idea was to tax remittances into Thailand if you are tax resident here. Nothing to do with income kept outside the country.

You may be right. The prospect of Thai Immigration co-operating with the tax authorities to determine which pensioners are here for more than 180 days is not one that fills me with dread.

[BobBKK]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

My thoughts are that you should try reading any of the numerous threads that already exist on this subject rather than add yet another one! Try this one, start at the end and work back. 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1306896-thai-government-to-tax-all-income-from-abroad-for-tax-residents-starting-2024/

 

I think a separate thread relating to the UK is very useful. I don't think those who are taxed in the UK, as I do, should lose sleep over this.

Edited November 25, 2023 by BobBKK

[biervoormij]

1 hour ago, LittleBear57 said:

I could bring some money over before January to avoid the potential issue of the truck purchase.

 

Another case of Thailand killing the Golden Goose not satisfied with us spending our pensions here they want more.

 

What are your thoughts? 

I think bringing the money over before January would be smart. You don't have to spend it on the new truck but avoiding any possible tax seems like a smart thing.

 

I have transferred money into Thailand to live on in 2024 just so I can live my life without worrying about how the Thai government will implement this change. I personally don't have a lot of trust in the Thai government not trying to tax ex-pats. I hope it is not the case but they already tax the interest I get here and they feel it is ok to charge me more in the hospitals because I am a retiree.

[142857]

It is a very silly idea to start taxing the overseas income of Expats, but that has not been confirmed yet. For those expats with a bit of cash, set up a company, and LEND the money you bring into Thailand and then LEND that money from the company to yourself!! Accountants are cheap in Thailand. say 30K a year, but let's say you can live on a million baht a year, that represents an effective rate of tax of 3%. Peanuts compared to the max of 35%. the other way of sorting this, is not to bring it into Thailand. Use your offshore bank accounts and make sure you have a big limit on your ATM withdrawals. Just take out cash and the Thai Taxman is none the wiser...

Edited November 25, 2023 by 142857
Need to add to comment.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, 142857 said:

It is a very silly idea to start taxing the overseas income of Expats, but that has not been confirmed yet. For those expats with a bit of cash, set up a company, and LEND the money you bring into Thailand and then LEND that money from the company to yourself!! Accountants are cheap in Thailand. say 30K a year, but let's say you can live on a million baht a year, that represents an effective rate of tax of 3%. Peanuts compared to the max of 35%. the other way of sorting this, is not to bring it into Thailand. Use your offshore bank accounts and make sure you have a big limit on your ATM withdrawals. Just take out cash and the Thai Taxman is none the wiser...

The Thais can't tax what doesn't get transferred in. Good thinking 99.

[Moonlover]

Whenever I see yet another thread being raised on this topic, I immediatly refer back to the original article on this matter, which stated quite clearly:

 

'Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand'.              (with apologies to the mods for the use of big fonts!)

 

That's my mantra, and I'm sticking to it.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

Whenever I see yet another thread being raised on this topic, I immediately ...

... ignore it with every other repetitive scaremongering, doom & gloom BS 😎

 

Maybe if OP actually searched for real info ... he/she/it may have found it 🙄

[The Cyclist]

This needs repeating for the benefit of the doomers & gloomers

 

 

 

Quote

Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand.

 

 

[cranki]

Which countries does Thailand have double tax treaties with?

At the time of writing, Thailand has concluded 61 double tax agreements with countries worldwide.

Armenia	Hungary	Poland
Australia	India	Romania
Austria	Indonesia	Russia
Bahrain	Israel	Seychelles
Bangladesh	Italy	Singapore
Belarus	Japan	Slovenia
Belgium	Korea	South Africa
Bulgaria	Kuwait	Spain
Cambodia	Laos	Sri Lanka
Canada	Luxembourg	Sweden
Chile	Malaysia	Switzerland
China	Mauritius	Taipei
Cyprus	Myanmar	Tajikistan
Czech Republic	Nepal	Turkey
Denmark	Netherlands	Ukraine
Estonia	New Zealand	United Arab Emirates
Finland	Norway	United States of America
Germany	Oman	Uzbekistan
Great Britain and Northern Ireland	Pakistan	Vietnam
Hong Kong	Philippines

[Lacessit]

45 minutes ago, cranki said:

Which countries does Thailand have double tax treaties with?

At the time of writing, Thailand has concluded 61 double tax agreements with countries worldwide.

Armenia	Hungary	Poland
Australia	India	Romania
Austria	Indonesia	Russia
Bahrain	Israel	Seychelles
Bangladesh	Italy	Singapore
Belarus	Japan	Slovenia
Belgium	Korea	South Africa
Bulgaria	Kuwait	Spain
Cambodia	Laos	Sri Lanka
Canada	Luxembourg	Sweden
Chile	Malaysia	Switzerland
China	Mauritius	Taipei
Cyprus	Myanmar	Tajikistan
Czech Republic	Nepal	Turkey
Denmark	Netherlands	Ukraine
Estonia	New Zealand	United Arab Emirates
Finland	Norway	United States of America
Germany	Oman	Uzbekistan
Great Britain and Northern Ireland	Pakistan	Vietnam
Hong Kong	Philippines

Someone might get demoted, CHINA is not listed. I don't know what benefit they will get out of taxing Bhutan expats.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, cranki said:

Which countries does Thailand have double tax treaties with?

At the time of writing, Thailand has concluded 61 double tax agreements with countries worldwide.

Armenia	Hungary	Poland
Australia	India	Romania
Austria	Indonesia	Russia
Bahrain	Israel	Seychelles
Bangladesh	Italy	Singapore
Belarus	Japan	Slovenia
Belgium	Korea	South Africa
Bulgaria	Kuwait	Spain
Cambodia	Laos	Sri Lanka
Canada	Luxembourg	Sweden
Chile	Malaysia	Switzerland
China	Mauritius	Taipei
Cyprus	Myanmar	Tajikistan
Czech Republic	Nepal	Turkey
Denmark	Netherlands	Ukraine
Estonia	New Zealand	United Arab Emirates
Finland	Norway	United States of America
Germany	Oman	Uzbekistan
Great Britain and Northern Ireland	Pakistan	Vietnam
Hong Kong	Philippines

 

33 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Someone might get demoted, CHINA is not listed. I don't know what benefit they will get out of taxing Bhutan expats.

China, 12th down on the left. Where does Bhutan come into this? 

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, cranki said:

Which countries does Thailand have double tax treaties with?

At the time of writing, Thailand has concluded 61 double tax agreements with countries worldwide.

Armenia	Hungary	Poland
Australia	India	Romania
Austria	Indonesia	Russia
Bahrain	Israel	Seychelles
Bangladesh	Italy	Singapore
Belarus	Japan	Slovenia
Belgium	Korea	South Africa
Bulgaria	Kuwait	Spain
Cambodia	Laos	Sri Lanka
Canada	Luxembourg	Sweden
Chile	Malaysia	Switzerland
China	Mauritius	Taipei
Cyprus	Myanmar	Tajikistan
Czech Republic	Nepal	Turkey
Denmark	Netherlands	Ukraine
Estonia	New Zealand	United Arab Emirates
Finland	Norway	United States of America
Germany	Oman	Uzbekistan
Great Britain and Northern Ireland	Pakistan	Vietnam
Hong Kong	Philippines

This list is wrong..

[LittleBear57]

5 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/AEC/AseanTax-Thailand.pdf

 

Thanks that's interesting.

[LittleBear57]

3 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Whenever I see yet another thread being raised on this topic, I immediatly refer back to the original article on this matter, which stated quite clearly:

 

'Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand'.              (with apologies to the mods for the use of big fonts!)

 

That's my mantra, and I'm sticking to it.

Thanks I must have missed the original article, and I knew the UK has a double tax agreement with Thailand. Wouldn't put it past the Thais to tax you and then make it difficult for you to claim back.

No offence taken.

[Moonlover]

6 minutes ago, LittleBear57 said:

Wouldn't put it past the Thais to tax you and then make it difficult for you to claim back.

That's the way. End on a negative!

[LittleBear57]

6 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

My thoughts are that you should try reading any of the numerous threads that already exist on this subject rather than add yet another one! Try this one, start at the end and work back. 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1306896-thai-government-to-tax-all-income-from-abroad-for-tax-residents-starting-2024/

 I missed this article somehow. However it seems very clear it will not affect people from countries with a double taxation agreement. Thank you for posting.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, LittleBear57 said:

 I missed this article somehow. However it seems very clear it will not affect people from countries with a double taxation agreement. Thank you for posting.

Not exactly, keep reading.

[LittleBear57]

4 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

That's the way. End on a negative!

Must have been here too long. Things seemed so much easier and less confusing 15 years ago.

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, LittleBear57 said:

 I missed this article somehow. However it seems very clear it will not affect people from countries with a double taxation agreement. Thank you for posting.

It depends on whether your home country has a double taxation agreement with Thailand and the sources and amounts of your income. UK Government (Civil Service) pensions are exempt, State Pension is not, company and private pensions are not. The Thai tax system has fairly generous allowances and deductions plus a large zero rated band which means you can import around 10k Pound per year, without being subjected to Thai tax (which is tiered at 5%, 10% 15% 20% bands)

[Lacessit]

51 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

China, 12th down on the left. Where does Bhutan come into this? 

Missed that, greyscale type. Bhutan is mentioned as an example of an insignificant return.

[Moonlover]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

 

China, 12th down on the left. Where does Bhutan come into this? 

 

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Missed that, greyscale type. Bhutan is mentioned as an example of an insignificant return.

It's only natural I guess for folks to gravitate toward personal taxation when discussing DTAs, but actually they are more about business taxes and a designed to smooth out and simplify business transactions between nations. The fact that we benefit at a personal level is more a byproduct of those treaties.

 

The treaties benefit both nations, which is why we are very unlikely to see any changes in our situations.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

7 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I am wondering how the Thai authorities could possibly tax a pension paid into an account in the expat's country of origin. They have no information on where and how much it is. The other country would be unable to disclose said information without breaching data privacy laws.

 

I suspect this is a brain fart, which will be dumped as soon as it is realized the cost of pursuing payment far exceeds any returns.

You may want to think again...