Thailand ranks bottom of the pile with ASEAN English score

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Has it occurred to you that many people do not have the aptitude to learn a foreign language, in the same way that not everyone can has the ability yo learn math or science - or English. It isn't as simple as saying 'you should'.

Some people, even ones from wealthy western countries, don't even have the aptitude to express themselves using the written word and are forced to rely on emojis and other pictures, the inhumanity of it all.

[newbee2022]

8 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Has it occurred to you that many people do not have the aptitude to learn a foreign language, in the same way that not everyone can has the ability yo learn math or science - or English. It isn't as simple as saying 'you should'.

If you replace aptitude by lazyness, or disrespect of your host country, or a "I don't care" attitude, then I agree. 

[Bangkok Barry]

25 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

When you have an educational system that refuses to fail students, when you have a system that does not allow students to question teachers, when you have a system that stifles curiosity, and when you have a society that is utterly obsessed with the stunningly cowardly practice of saving face, you have a recipe for disaster. There are no surprises in the results of this survey.

 

Thailand will never be able to move forward without addressing these issues. 

I've always remembered that when I was a kid I asked a teacher if the 'tubes' you can see alongside the London Underground tracks include telephone wires. She said she didn't know but she would find out. And she did, and they do. Can you imagine a Thai teacher saying they don't know something?!

[JensenZ]

43 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Mine are too, I even correct my wife sometimes if she comes out with that American slang.

I suspect, due to the much larger population of internet users from America that UK English spelling will slowly be phased out in the following decades. Even now, in many forums, I tend to use the US spelling as the majority of users are American.

 

What English spelling do they teach in Thailand?

[ChipButty]

9 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I suspect, due to the much larger population of internet users from America that UK English spelling will slowly be phased out in the following decades. Even now, in many forums, I tend to use the US spelling as the majority of users are American.

 

What English spelling do they teach in Thailand?

Philippine  

[StayinThailand2much]

3 hours ago, Chongalulu said:

Absolutely it does,the influence is passed on from generation to generation. 

 

'English' must be in the genes then...

[StayinThailand2much]

10 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Philippine  

 

Yes, e.g. teaching the kids 'Hellow'...

[Peabody]

6 hours ago, scorecard said:

"until you root out the rotten education system in this country nothing will ever change."

 

Totally agree. Band Aids a waste of time.

 

IMHO the best approach/strategy would be to copy, in every aspect, the Singapore education system. It has excellent foundations and it works and it strongly incorporates student centered learning. 

 

My Thai son, for years my Thai son attended a  'bilingual' high school in Bkk (which promised many things: Qualified /experienced western teachers / student centered learning which continuously prompts the students to get involved. Plus Qualified /experienced Thai teachers who speak good English student centered learning which continuously prompts the students to get involved (but in reality never ever seen)).

 

Then he transferred to a good high school in SIngapore. After 3 months he came back to Bkk (thanks budget airlines for cheap fares), got in the car at Swampy airport and started talking at length about human rights and the international court in the hague. And many other advanced subjects. A new son had arrived. All prompted by the Singapore education system.

 

But of course changin Thailand to the S'pore Ed system would be a major undertaking and would take time. So let's get started.

 

And there's proof, Vietnam has made major changes to it's education system, all copied from the S'pore Ed system. It works. 

 

I taught at the only Singaporean government-sponsored school outside of Singapore, in Aberdeen, Hong Kong. 

The students were brilliant. Best I've ever seen, after teaching in 6 different countries. Thailand was the worst, by far.

The so-called "Singapore ..." schools in Vietnam were crap, but still better than any Thai secondary schools.
 

[scorecard]

48 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

 

Any teacher worth their salary, should know and be able to:-

 

" Promote and maintain the desire to learn "

 

The difference between real teachers and classroom drones.

 

Children are inquisitive little creatures by nature and are a proverbial sponge at soaking up information.

 

Start them early on the correct path and very few will look back.

 

 

" Promote and maintain the desire to learn "

 

But the reality is that the teachers believe the focus should be on them, and not on the students.

 

My Thai son went to high school in Singapore then returned to Bkk to study for his bachelor in Education with an additional sports major. 

(Note: He could have done his bachelor in education in Singapore but he discovered that the Thai ed ministry does not accept / recognise education degrees from any other country.

 

In hs 4th year he had to do a six months work experience at a very big Thai high school in Bkk.

 

He quickly discovered and was very disappointed to discover that the children were NOT the centre of the process nor the results.

 

He tried to do a soft introduction of student centered learning which very quickly prompted a mass protest by the Thai teachers who, amongst other items, was not respecting the teachers as the centre of the universe. They also objected to my son teaching some English vocab as the lessons progressed.

 

Headmistress screwed up by announcing that my son (a work experience unqualified boy) would conduct a series of 1 hr classes / lectures on student centered learning.

 

This produced an even more serious protest by all the Thai teachers (young and old) who demanded that:

- The headmistress same day send my son back to his uni with a report that his work was totally unsatisfactory.

- The headmistress sign a document confirming that 'student centered learning' and similar terms would never be seen again at the school.

- The headmistress resign immediately the above was done and an insistence that a specific older dragon teacher be installed as the headmistress.

 

Quickly my son took it on himself to report back to his uni and they quickly found another school for him to do his work experience.

 

All of the above broke his heart / broke his spirit.

 

 

[StayinThailand2much]

1 hour ago, mberbae said:

My son is majoring in English at a University here in Chiang Mai.

The teacher will NOT let him see his test results to see which

answers he may have gotten wrong. She only gives the students

their grade.  HOW is one supposed to learn from their mistakes

this way ?

 

I know from former students that, for example, at Ramkhamhaeng University in Bangkok, they could pass any exam 'automatically', if only by being told the answers. Grades in Thailand are often made up by teachers, i.e. usually 'upgraded' to please everyone. Nothing about real grading or achievements...

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, Accidental Tourist said:

Mmmh...what about Lao language then...

 

Well 50 years ago I went to Laos too.  The "hotel" I stayed in had folks speaking English - maybe not perfect but I spoke Thai and they are close enough that we could always end up satisfying whatever we needed to know.  As an American native, I realize that most native born Americans are not bi-lingual nor  do they want to spend the time learning a foreign language.  US govt agencies cannot even fill their

vacant billets for foreign language speaking Americans (i.e. the US State Department online jobs mentions that several years ago State could fill only 24% of their foreign-language billets.  Around 1980 or so, the US High Schools dropped the graduation requirement for studying a foreign language, usually French or Spanish is an example of the Americans not willing to put in the time necessary to learn another language and now with AI there are new APPs that enable folks to "get by" in many different languages.  I don't believe one can really understand the cultures of a foreign people unless they can actually converse with them.   I have been fortunate enough to study over 10 different languages.  

[scorecard]

41 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I've always remembered that when I was a kid I asked a teacher if the 'tubes' you can see alongside the London Underground tracks include telephone wires. She said she didn't know but she would find out. And she did, and they do. Can you imagine a Thai teacher saying they don't know something?!

 

This is a subject that came up in the professors lounge at a 'prestigious' uni where I was teaching.

 

A Thai professor repeated 'You cannot allow students to ask questions because maybe the teacher cannot answer the question'.

 

I chimed in and said 'there many ways to handle all of this, for example:

 

'Lecturer says 'that's a good question and I'm going to split the class into small teams and you have 30 minutes to find an acceptable/ logical answer. (This is a class where students are encouraged to have a tablet or a smartphone in their bag and can use it to do assigned searches.)

[Bim Smith]

2 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

The majority of Thais speak poor English because English teachers here are mostly sex tourists..... like yourself seem to be.

 

 

Sorry not a teacher nor a tourist as I have lived here ten years. Met my Thai wife in the UK not some street in Pattaya which is where people like you frequent and troll others to help them feel better

[Bangkok Barry]

5 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

I know from former students that, for example, at Ramkhamhaeng University in Bangkok, they could pass any exam 'automatically', if only by being told the answers. Grades in Thailand are often made up by teachers, i.e. usually 'upgraded' to please everyone. Nothing about real grading or achievements...

 

I know a now retired school secretary in Sydney, who told me of two Thai brothers who failed their exams there. Expecting the Thai-style automatic pass, they demanded that they be given a pass, otherwise their father would remove them from the school and that school would lose the tuition fees. The school told them 'goodbye'.

[scorecard]

2 minutes ago, Bim Smith said:

Sorry not a teacher nor a tourist as I have lived here ten years. Met my Thai wife in the UK not some street in Pattaya which is where people like you frequent and troll others to help them feel better

Well said. My Thai wife (the light of my life, sadly now passed on) was a doctor of medicine with board certificate in 2 specialities, all achieved in Australia. Perfect English.

[The Cyclist]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

" Promote and maintain the desire to learn "

 

But the reality is that the teachers believe the focus should be on them, and not on the students.

 

And that will be the classroom drones that I mentioned in my original comment. They are drones, not teachers.

 

I am not convinced that anything will change within the Thai Education system. Too many people in high places believe / prefer to have a low education population / system, where only the wealthy are able to pay for a better standard of education. It keeps a class system intact.

 

It is a bit of a catch 22 if you are not in a position to pay for a decent education.

[issan101]

Not vely sulplised

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

When you have an educational system that refuses to fail students, when you have a system that does not allow students to question teachers, when you have a system that stifles curiosity, and when you have a society that is utterly obsessed with the stunningly cowardly practice of saving face, you have a recipe for disaster. There are no surprises in the results of this survey.

 

Thailand will never be able to move forward without addressing these issues. 

Hit the nail directly on the head there!  I speak Thai fairly fluent.  My daughter is a freshman at Chulalongkorn Univ. she graduated HS from ChiangMai International School- studied Chinese for 5 years including AP Chinese, worked as Chinese Teacher's aide one year, taught Chinese at a (Muslim) HS near CMIS, taught herself from age 15 (while studying Chinese in HS at the same time) Korean language and has been able to pass level four in the intenational TOPIK (test of proficiency in Korean), native speaker of Thai and English.  When she first went to elementary school here in Bangkok, we moved and selected a school reputed to teach English well, (wrong) so after that first year we moved to another part of the city to a school reputed to have great English teaching (within the first 2 months they fired most of their western English speaking teachers and hired Filippinos) so moved again to another school, great reputation pre-k to 12th grade, lots of western teachers...but after the first year, they dropped all above 6th grade and fired some westerners (this school had a 2-year waiting list for entrance - some got in line when they learned they were pregnant) then, they greatly expanded the pre-k and Kindergarten because they could charge more (3 teacher per class to take care of the young ones).  I would check my daughter's English homework and noted many errors in the teacher's-prepared homework so I would correct same with a red-pencil and wrote a note asking to meet with the teacher.  Upon that meeting, I learned that they were not allowed to ask the western English speakers about any written assignments as those were prepared by the school director and although I was showing them how they were wrong, the teachers said that they could not correct the students either.  So, I made the trip to the director, and after 20 minutes of listening while she explained how great she was and her credentials, I showed her several of my daughter's homework assignments.  She noted immediately my corrections in RED and said that she would not change anything and who was I to correct her work?  Of course I laughed even knowing how that would upset her but I just couldn't contain my disdain for such comments.  I was a professional translator from foreign languages to English for US govt officials so I needed to be proficient in my native language.  We left again, moved to CM, Rangsit University had just opened a newly built school there. We jumped into that first year - learned although Rangsit had a great reputation in their satit language teaching (Bangkok) so we quickly learned this new school would not be so great nor even close to that in Bangkok so moved on to CMIS and our daughter bloomed tremendously in learning.  It suddenly became more fun the more she learned.  Even with the pandemic closures, CMIS had already obtained an online training program from Singapore because the school had to close due to pollution before the COVID became rampant here so CMIS kids never missed any schooling.  Our daughter is doing well here

in Bangkok is happy and continues her foreign-language studies.  We were lucky that we could find such a school here, and note many times that other families have been having the same negative feelings about the local schools.  Thais spend more hours in school that most of the top schools in the world yet learn very little in compared test results with the foreign students.  I realize that there are some students with great parents that enable their child to do well but that is the exception, not the rule.  From  reading some not to long ago reports schoolbooks were to be upgrade, notebooks were to be provide to all the secondary school kids, etc but then we read about  budget cuts and those upgrades seem to be chopped at the beginning...but yeah submarines or frigates are more important that kids learning!  Ido believe all the studies show that one cannot cure poverty by throwing money at it...but it gets the votes I guess so what counts?  This is factual as far as my daughter was concerned...I do not know how other families feel about this.

[Presnock]

28 minutes ago, Bim Smith said:

Sorry not a teacher nor a tourist as I have lived here ten years. Met my Thai wife in the UK not some street in Pattaya which is where people like you frequent and troll others to help them feel better

Most elementary schools I have seen, have Thai English teachers, they learned English in the Thai schools...need I say more?

[Aussie999]

18 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

3rd world education systems do not produce many successful people or a bright future for its people.  

it's all part of the elites master pan, keep them dumb, you keep them sudordinate... a slave to the rich

[spidermike007]

3 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Hit the nail directly on the head there!  I speak Thai fairly fluent.  My daughter is a freshman at Chulalongkorn Univ. she graduated HS from ChiangMai International School- studied Chinese for 5 years including AP Chinese, worked as Chinese Teacher's aide one year, taught Chinese at a (Muslim) HS near CMIS, taught herself from age 15 (while studying Chinese in HS at the same time) Korean language and has been able to pass level four in the intenational TOPIK (test of proficiency in Korean), native speaker of Thai and English.  When she first went to elementary school here in Bangkok, we moved and selected a school reputed to teach English well, (wrong) so after that first year we moved to another part of the city to a school reputed to have great English teaching (within the first 2 months they fired most of their western English speaking teachers and hired Filippinos) so moved again to another school, great reputation pre-k to 12th grade, lots of western teachers...but after the first year, they dropped all above 6th grade and fired some westerners (this school had a 2-year waiting list for entrance - some got in line when they learned they were pregnant) then, they greatly expanded the pre-k and Kindergarten because they could charge more (3 teacher per class to take care of the young ones).  I would check my daughter's English homework and noted many errors in the teacher's-prepared homework so I would correct same with a red-pencil and wrote a note asking to meet with the teacher.  Upon that meeting, I learned that they were not allowed to ask the western English speakers about any written assignments as those were prepared by the school director and although I was showing them how they were wrong, the teachers said that they could not correct the students either.  So, I made the trip to the director, and after 20 minutes of listening while she explained how great she was and her credentials, I showed her several of my daughter's homework assignments.  She noted immediately my corrections in RED and said that she would not change anything and who was I to correct her work?  Of course I laughed even knowing how that would upset her but I just couldn't contain my disdain for such comments.  I was a professional translator from foreign languages to English for US govt officials so I needed to be proficient in my native language.  We left again, moved to CM, Rangsit University had just opened a newly built school there. We jumped into that first year - learned although Rangsit had a great reputation in their satit language teaching (Bangkok) so we quickly learned this new school would not be so great nor even close to that in Bangkok so moved on to CMIS and our daughter bloomed tremendously in learning.  It suddenly became more fun the more she learned.  Even with the pandemic closures, CMIS had already obtained an online training program from Singapore because the school had to close due to pollution before the COVID became rampant here so CMIS kids never missed any schooling.  Our daughter is doing well here

in Bangkok is happy and continues her foreign-language studies.  We were lucky that we could find such a school here, and note many times that other families have been having the same negative feelings about the local schools.  Thais spend more hours in school that most of the top schools in the world yet learn very little in compared test results with the foreign students.  I realize that there are some students with great parents that enable their child to do well but that is the exception, not the rule.  From  reading some not to long ago reports schoolbooks were to be upgrade, notebooks were to be provide to all the secondary school kids, etc but then we read about  budget cuts and those upgrades seem to be chopped at the beginning...but yeah submarines or frigates are more important that kids learning!  Ido believe all the studies show that one cannot cure poverty by throwing money at it...but it gets the votes I guess so what counts?  This is factual as far as my daughter was concerned...I do not know how other families feel about this.

 

Great reply, thank you for that information, a very informative story. Very happy to hear that your daughter is doing so well. The only explanation that makes sense is that all of this is deliberate, they  deliberately want to prevent students from being outstanding, and they are essentially trying to keep the population dumb.

 

Nothing else makes sense. 

[richard_smith237]

Just now, Aussie999 said:

it's all part of the elites master pan, keep them dumb, you keep them sudordinate... a slave to the rich

 

Because the 'elite' all get together in their lair for a meeting and discuss how to keep the education standards low so they can maintain their strangle hold on their slaves... 

[Chongalulu]

51 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

'English' must be in the genes then...

Intelligence is often hereditary. I'm sorry for your loss...

[Mavideol]

7 hours ago, NobbyClarke said:

How about employing the Native English Teachers again?

I do not understand most of the Philippine English Teachers (I am British) so how can the Thailand people?

It needs to change.

the school where my kid goes, for the past 6 years, has never had a native english teacher, they did have some from South Africa, India, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Philippine, Italian and the mosr recent one was French he lasted 1 month.... but all her and her schoolmates pass every year 555

[Celsius]

42 minutes ago, Bim Smith said:

Sorry not a teacher nor a tourist as I have lived here ten years. Met my Thai wife in the UK not some street in Pattaya which is where people like you frequent and troll others to help them feel better

 

Nah

[riclag]

No doubt!
When my Daughter was in HS , she had a English test and she was texting 

her mother the questions live!

Some of the Thai/ English teachers had no clue on proper learning techniques ! 
How should you speak to a Thai student who has a difficult time understanding English conversation ?Should you converse in pigeon talk or use proper  vocabulary?

imop

 

[Brick Top]

[Bundooman]

19 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Surprise, surprise, with unmotivated students because they always pass, non English speaking English Thai teachers.. as my boss was a master in English but could not conversate with me,  English camps in Thai Language and a Government that only speaks only of important to learn English, but nowhere in Thailand you can find an English movie on TV, and everything should be in Thai..... A bit of big change is needed... Maybe the former backpackers were better to teach than the average level of a Thai English teacher... 

For an English teacher, you too appear to have poor skills:

 

As my boss who is a master, not 'as my boss was a master'. (Unless he is dead of course).

converse not, 'conversate'.

only of importance, not 'of important'.

A big change is needed, not 'a bit of a big change'

but nowhere in Thailand can you, not, 'but nowhere in Thailand you can'

'and everything should be in Thai'. (I have no idea what this might mean, it appears contradictory to your previous statement  and it doesn't make sense.

former backpackers were better at teaching, not 'former back packers were better to teach'

 

Normally, I wouldn't comment on things like this - but you openly state  you are/were an English teacher, yet you are demonstrating multiple errors in your post while suggesting that Thai teaches are not up to the job. Nor are you then.

My English is not perfect, but I certainly wouldn't criticise someone who cannot even spell check his own English.

Moderators can delete my post if it is not appropriate.

[Bundooman]

1 minute ago, Bundooman said:

For an English teacher, you too appear to have poor skills:

 

As my boss who is a master, not 'as my boss was a master'. (Unless he is dead of course).

converse not, 'conversate'.

only of importance, not 'of important'.

A big change is needed, not 'a bit of a big change'

but nowhere in Thailand can you, not, 'but nowhere in Thailand you can'

'and everything should be in Thai'. (I have no idea what this might mean, it appears contradictory to your previous statement  and it doesn't make sense.

former backpackers were better at teaching, not 'former back packers were better to teach'

 

Normally, I wouldn't comment on things like this - but you openly state  you are/were an English teacher, yet you are demonstrating multiple errors in your post while suggesting that Thai teaches are not up to the job. Nor are you then.

My English is not perfect, but I certainly wouldn't criticise someone who cannot even spell check his own English.

Moderators can delete my post if it is not appropriate.

And I failed to spell-check my own word, 'teachers', not 'teaches'. Pot calling the kettle - but I don't profess to be an English teacher

[Liverpool Lou]

20 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Thailand has fared poorly in the English Proficiency Index 2023 from EF, the global English teaching institute.

How much of that is due to the professional abilities and 'qualifications' of NES expat/backpacker-type "teachers", I wonder?