UK statement to the house - net migration measures - did I hear right? Family visa financials doubled, NHS charge up 66%?

[Bday Prang]

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

What about the many that have the police in their pockets?

 

Should Thailand be commended for that too?

Somewhat off topic 

[Ben Zioner]

On 12/5/2023 at 1:46 AM, theblether said:

Yes, the family visa income level has been raised to £38,700. In effect, it will shut down spousal immigration. Very few pensioners will qualify at that income level, including those with private pensions. 

 

As for younger people, good luck.trying to get a job at that income level if you have an overseas gap on your CV. 

Maybe UK is cheaper than EU.  I don't own property, so I don't see myself trying to settle in Germany or France, with a family and 45000 Euros a year. So, a wise move in IMHO.

[Bday Prang]

25 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

You've clearly never been to the seedy parts of Bangkok or Pattaya.

 

Your hatred for an entire faith clearly clouds your judgement.

And you clearly have no Idea where I have been.  I suggest you and your private health care wife try living, and working, in a middle eastern muslim country before you extol the virtues of the religion of peace

Your refusal to accept what is happening is astonishing.  One only has to look at what happened in Iran or Lebanon not that long ago, to see how a relatively liberal regime can change almost over night when these "religious" zealots are given the slightest opportunity io inflict their medieval beliefs on a country.  Would you really wish for that in the UK?    come on now be honest

Any way it's too late it's already started iT won't affect me I'll be dead and buried before the take over is complete but anybody under 40 years old can look forward to a bleak future, especially the women

Edited December 9, 2023 by Bday Prang

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

Yeh, it is ironic as one of the reasons Thailand remains a great place to live is Thailand's strict immigration policies, which keep out most of the undesirables. 

 

   Africans face restrictions about going to Thailand , its difficult for Africans to get Thai Visas 

[youreavinalaff]

4 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

And you clearly have no Idea where I have been.  I suggest you and your private health care wife try living, and working, in a middle eastern muslim country before you extol the virtues of the religion of peace

Your refusal to accept what is happening is astonishing.  One only has to look at what happened in Iran or Lebanon not that long ago, to see how a relatively liberal regime can change almost over night when these "religious" zealots are given the slightest opportunity io inflict their medieval beliefs on a country.  Would you really wish for that in the UK?    come on now be honest

Any way it's too late it's already started iT won't affect me I'll be dead and buried before the take over is complete but anybody under 40 years old can look forward to a bleak future, especially the women

Now, your hatred of an entire faith, assuming everyone of that faith is evil, leads you to insults and putting words in people's mouths.

 

How strange.

[Nick Carter icp]

5 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

And you clearly have no Idea where I have been.  I suggest you and your private health care wife try living, and working, in a middle eastern muslim country before you extol the virtues of the religion of peace

Your refusal to accept what is happening is astonishing.  One only has to look at what happened in Iran or Lebanon not that long ago, to see how a relatively liberal regime can change almost over night when these "religious" zealots are given the slightest opportunity io inflict their medieval beliefs on a country.  Would you really wish for that in the UK?    come on now be honest

Any way it's too late it's already started iT won't affect me I'll be dead and buried before the take over is complete but anybody under 40 years old can look forward to a bleak future, especially the women

 

   The U.K wont be turning into an Islamic state anytime soon or ever .

[Bday Prang]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Now, your hatred of an entire faith, assuming everyone of that faith is evil, leads you to insults and putting words in people's mouths.

 

How strange.

I'm getting a bored with this now so here is my final comment.    I am guessing you are pretty big on human rights, diversity, inclusivity and all that.

How do you stand on homophobia and gay rights?  No doubt you are all for it.   Probably have a few gay mates too, why not its perfectly acceptable these days,   Why not try asking your muslim friends how they feel about gay rights, and while you are at it you could try asking your gay mates how they would feel living under a muslim regime.   Even better why not arrange for both parties to meet in order to discuss such matters. that could be a very interesting dinner party.  Who's side would you be on?   

[Bday Prang]

18 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   The U.K wont be turning into an Islamic state anytime soon or ever .

I certainly hope that you are correct.    And as you appear to be so sure of what the future holds in store, could you give me a few numbers for the next lottery draw?

 

[Bday Prang]

24 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Now, your hatred of an entire faith, assuming everyone of that faith is evil, leads you to insults and putting words in people's mouths.

 

How strange.

 Not  sure who I have insulted or what words  I have  put into anybody's mouth?   

[Bday Prang]

40 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Africans face restrictions about going to Thailand , its difficult for Africans to get Thai Visas 

That's why most of the unsavory characters found loitering in "soi africa" inevitably end up in the immigration detention center.  

[youreavinalaff]

38 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

I'm getting a bored with this now so here is my final comment.    I am guessing you are pretty big on human rights, diversity, inclusivity and all that.

How do you stand on homophobia and gay rights?  No doubt you are all for it.   Probably have a few gay mates too, why not its perfectly acceptable these days,   Why not try asking your muslim friends how they feel about gay rights, and while you are at it you could try asking your gay mates how they would feel living under a muslim regime.   Even better why not arrange for both parties to meet in order to discuss such matters. that could be a very interesting dinner party.  Who's side would you be on?   

As I've already said. I don't know if I have any Muslim friends. I don't ask people's religion. The same goes for sexuality.

[youreavinalaff]

32 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

 Not  sure who I have insulted or what words  I have  put into anybody's mouth?   

Have a look at your posts. You'll find them there.

[Bday Prang]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Have a look at your posts. You'll find them there.

I have stated my opinions and views, you are not obliged to agree, you are not even obliged to read them .   If I have caused any offence I really and genuinely could not care less.

[Bday Prang]

11 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

As I've already said. I don't know if I have any Muslim friends. I don't ask people's religion. The same goes for sexuality.

A very easy way out of answering what must have been a difficult question for you.  Do you avoid condemning FGM to women. There would be no need to ask them what sexuality they are.  just out of interest  did you consider the events that took place in Israel an act of terrorism or do you consider Hamas to be "freedom fighters" 

Palestinians are not wanted by neighbouring countries for good reason, but no doubt will soon become another unwanted burden on the UK. it is unlikely they will become inconvenienced by the UK's tightening of immigration requirements

Edited December 9, 2023 by Bday Prang

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Now, your hatred of an entire faith, assuming everyone of that faith is evil, leads you to insults and putting words in people's mouths.

 

How strange.

Unfortunately it's not so strange.  Brexit/Boris/Farage/Tommy Robinson brought out a whole new type of bigot and they're not going away anytime soon. That said, once the Toris have been swept from power next year, at least we should have a less evil government, although I'm not holding out a lot of hope for Starmer!

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, Bday Prang said:

I'm getting a bored with this now so here is my final comment.    I am guessing you are pretty big on human rights, diversity, inclusivity and all that.

How do you stand on homophobia and gay rights?  No doubt you are all for it.   Probably have a few gay mates too, why not its perfectly acceptable these days,   Why not try asking your muslim friends how they feel about gay rights, and while you are at it you could try asking your gay mates how they would feel living under a muslim regime.   Even better why not arrange for both parties to meet in order to discuss such matters. that could be a very interesting dinner party.  Who's side would you be on?   

 Unfortunately, this wasn't your "final comment"!  Care to stop now?  This useful, topical thread, affecting those who may want to get a Settlement visa for their partner, has already been taken off topic by your Islamophobic, racist comments.

 

[theoldgit]

OK can we reign this in a bit now, this thread was started to ask and comment about the proposed new fees for UK Visas and the NHS Surcharge, and its implications, not religions, so can we stick to that please.

It’s maybe worth noting that the increased NHS Surcharge was actually announced by Sunak when he was Chancellor.

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

I'm not sure on the figures but, I would doubt many people pay that much directly into NHS in many many more years of paying NI.

As far as NICs ar concerned it is a complex question as a lot would depend on which class you paid and for how long.

Last year about 23% of income tax went to Health and about 11% went to the state pension. NICs accounts for about 17% of government revenue but they have always been very tight lipped on how that has been distributed.

If someone eaned an average of £10K over a tax lifetime of 60 years they would have contributed something around £15K from income tax alone to the NHS, far less their NI contributions.

 

When the income threshold was introduced it made a mockery of the state pension. The government was effectively admitting the state pension was insufficient without benefits and created a ban of foreign spouses for state pensioners without additional resources. The current proposal is beyond belief and I think comes from all this talk that they can ignore the courts if they choose to do so.

The £18,600 threshold was calculated as the level at which a specific example type of family – a single-earner household with no children paying £100 per week in rent – is no longer eligible for tax credits or housing benefit, which can be received while working.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/reports/the-minimum-income-requirement-for-non-eea-family-members-in-the-uk-2/#:~:text=Since July 2012%2C people applying,18%2C600 per year before tax&text=Applicants who have cash savings,plus 2.5 times the shortfall.

 

 

[RHCP]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:06 AM, theoldgit said:

Yes and that’s what the media are reporting, we need to keep in mind that whilst the new figures are more than the average wage in the UK, for FLR and ILR applications both the applicants and sponsors salaries can be combined to meet the threshold, along with any savings they may have.

 

I suspect most couples will make the cut, but sadly not all.

According to an article in the Independent 

 

On 12/6/2023 at 11:06 AM, theoldgit said:

Yes and that’s what the media are reporting, we need to keep in mind that whilst the new figures are more than the average wage in the UK, for FLR and ILR applications both the applicants and sponsors salaries can be combined to meet the threshold, along with any savings they may have.

 

I suspect most couples will make the cut, but sadly not all.

I've just read an article from The Independent yesterday suggesting that the government is backtracking now on this and no decision has yet been made so that will come as some temporary relief for those affected.

[UKresonant]

Though I have big doubts that the Wife would currently want to settle in the UK, she may have different thoughts when she retires. I've always sought to keep the pension design to cover the potential UK financial requirement, additionally, in my own right, as a belt and braces approach, in case of a glitch in the Thai end paperwork, should an application ever be thought of. I had just recently exceeded it with my U.K. (indexed) pension income (also coincidentally circa one of the other Thai visa income requirements) required by a margin and could still be on target  if they had C.P.I. indexed it, by also using some savings in the calc.  now I would struggle to get there, (as my state pension which is still years off).

 

I hope that article (mentioned above) is correct that they will back track sum what, but is another example of how many in Westminster, do not have the interests of UK nationals in the foreground of their thoughts, or on their checklist before take-off. Their attitude more than disappointing!  (especially for those in Wales, who maybe have to be £6.5k above local average income to get over the hurdle)

 

My sympathy goes out to anyone that would be affected and perhaps be currently very upset by this tunnel vision announcement by the home Secretary, which potentially demolishes their family's current plans.

[MicroB]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:37 PM, Bday Prang said:

so we should just let them all in then?  Would that make you happy?

 

Strawman.

[MicroB]

On 12/9/2023 at 2:00 PM, Bday Prang said:

I have stated my opinions and views, you are not obliged to agree, you are not even obliged to read them .   If I have caused any offence I really and genuinely could not care less.

 

Then follow your own advice when telling people to stop posting information that you don't like. Populate your Ignore list, so you won't get upset.

[Bday Prang]

6 minutes ago, MicroB said:

 

Strawman.

it was a simple question  why could you not just answer it.

[Bday Prang]

5 minutes ago, MicroB said:

 

Then follow your own advice when telling people to stop posting information that you don't like. Populate your Ignore list, so you won't get upset.

What, and miss all the fun ?  I have not told people to stop posting  stuff that I don't like.  I don't have an ignore list ,     Anyway none of these financial requirements would be game changing for a real "doctor"  

[MicroB]

On 12/8/2023 at 11:27 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  The main objection is to illegal immigrants , those that ignore all the visa rules and just sail across from France in dinghies

  We all have visas , illegal immigrants are the same as overstayers and they are not liked either

 

The thrust of the legislation is not to reduce "illegal immigrants" (aren't we innocent until proven guilty?), but reduces legal immigration. The Home Office has produced modeling to demonstrate this. The number of small boats or whatever, will not be significantly affected. The government's own estimate is that a few hundred refugee claimants will be transported to Rwanda yearly (note, not "illegals"; these are people who have claimed refugee status, 79% of claimants are given refugee status). Their cases will be decided in Rwanda, according to Rwandan law, which is based on a German-Belgian code. The Home Office, at some expense to the public purse, will be establishing teams of British barristers in Rwanda, to provide some kind of advice. Unfortunately, they will be a waste, as they can only advise according the British Law. Once they have been granted refugee status, they remain in Rwanda. Those washing up in boats who choose not to claim refugee status will be deported according to the normal processes. Rwanda has a veto on any claimant removed from the UK to Rwanda; the UK has to issue a transfer request.

 

And there is more

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/memorandum-of-understanding-mou-between-the-uk-and-rwanda/memorandum-of-understanding-between-the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-of-great-britain-and-northern-ireland-and-the-government-of-the-republic-of-r#part-1--transfer-arrangments

 

Quote

16 Resettlement of vulnerable Refugees

16.1 The Participants will make arrangements for the United Kingdom to resettle a portion of Rwanda’s most vulnerable refugees in the United Kingdom, recognising both Participants’ commitment towards providing better international protection for refugees.

 

So the deal includes the UK accepting refugees from Rwanda, the ones Rwanda cannot look after, without any ceiling. The UNHCR states currently Rwanda houses 127,000, mostly from the DRC, Burindi and a smaller number from Libya. 76% are women and kids, which I suspect is where you find the most vulnerable. There is already a contradiction. We are assured that refugees will be well treated in Rwanda. So how can they get better protection in the UK?

 

Now I don't expect the UK government will accept the next 3000 berth cruise liner chartered by the government of Rwanda crammed with the most vulnerable refugees. I expect if that happened, then that is the  end of the Treaty.

 

Now when a Home Secretary stands up in the House and assures the members that the agreement is rock solid legally, I think it helps that the Home Secretary, the former Youth Ambassador for London, has an education in Hospitality Management from the Ealing College of Higher Education, otherwise he is utterly dependant on assurances given to him by Home Office lawyers. Hopefully the Buck stops with him.

[stuandjulie]

On 12/9/2023 at 3:54 AM, Bday Prang said:

Another lefty who obviously has little or no knowledge what they are talking about. Last I heard the UK was spending £8 million per day housing thousands upon thousands of these people.  I would be very very interested to learn,,, how illegal immigrants who are not allowed to work , can contribute anything to any economy, (except to the profits of  the  people traffickers and human rights lawyers ) 

The very essence of the UK's culture is being destroyed and people like you ( their enablers) are too blind to see it

Why don't you tell us how julie would feel having to wear a burka whilst standing in a queue, waiting for the old woman to arrive with a  rusty razor blade  to purify her with a bit of good old FGM

Your analogy to expats living legally and supporting themselves here (or anywhere else) and contributing to the economy is truly pathetic, and insulting to our intelligence,

Wake up and smell the coffee

A typical response, ignore the facts and bang on about rusty razor blades, surprised you didn't bring up rape gangs as most Little Englanders do (BTW that is also untrue)

[stuandjulie]

On 12/8/2023 at 4:27 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  The main objection is to illegal immigrants , those that ignore all the visa rules and just sail across from France in dinghies

  We all have visas , illegal immigrants are the same as overstayers and they are not liked either

What is an illegal immigrant ? Coming over on a boat is not illegal in itself, if they land and claim asylum they are NOT illegal, visa or not, also 'Illegal' immigration is a relatively low percentage of all immigration. 

[Bday Prang]

10 minutes ago, stuandjulie said:

A typical response, ignore the facts and bang on about rusty razor blades, surprised you didn't bring up rape gangs as most Little Englanders do (BTW that is also untrue)

Asian grooming gangs have been a huge problem in parts of the UK   here's one link to assist you in removing your head from the sand, you can find the rest yourself,    Anyway lets hear what julie thinks about it all, or is she as blind and blinkered by wokeness as you?

Edited December 10, 2023 by Bday Prang

[Bday Prang]

4 minutes ago, stuandjulie said:

What is an illegal immigrant ? Coming over on a boat is not illegal in itself, if they land and claim asylum they are NOT illegal, visa or not, also 'Illegal' immigration is a relatively low percentage of all immigration. 

Wake up and smell the coffee,      for gods sake,   

[Doctor Tom]

4 minutes ago, stuandjulie said:

Coming over on a boat is not illegal in itself,

Crossing any Country's  border without the correct travel documentation required by the law of that country is illegal under International Treaty. If subsequently, refugee status or political asylum is requested, then that is a separate process which does not negate that the first entry was illegal.