UN warns of ‘blatant disregard for basic humanity’ in Gaza warfare

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

Why did Israel ask for the UN meeting with 800 people and present the evidence to ask for it to be investigated?

UN meeting Monday December 4th

US lawmakers, foreign diplomats, senior United Nations officials and other nongovernment stakeholders participated in the event hosted by Israel’s envoy to the UN, Gilad Erdan, 

https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2023/12/silence-complicity-sheryl-sandberg-speaks-out-allegations-hamas-sexual-violence

Friday 1st December 

Israel’s Ambassador to the United Nations, Gilad Erdan, said on Thursday that Israel will not cooperate with a UN Commission of Inquiry’s probe of sexual crimes perpetrated by Hamas during its October 7 attack on Israel, citing the body’s anti-Israel bias.

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/381237

[WDSmart]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I think if we go back, we should go back at least 1,500 years, what say you? 

Normally I would agree with you. But i've been warned by a moderator not to go back farther than 7 Oct.

[Bkk Brian]

29 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

UN meeting Monday December 4th

US lawmakers, foreign diplomats, senior United Nations officials and other nongovernment stakeholders participated in the event hosted by Israel’s envoy to the UN, Gilad Erdan, 

https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2023/12/silence-complicity-sheryl-sandberg-speaks-out-allegations-hamas-sexual-violence

Friday 1st December 

Israel’s Ambassador to the United Nations, Gilad Erdan, said on Thursday that Israel will not cooperate with a UN Commission of Inquiry’s probe of sexual crimes perpetrated by Hamas during its October 7 attack on Israel, citing the body’s anti-Israel bias.

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/381237

Oblivious to updated news and meetings...............

 

Israel presses U.N. to investigate charges of sexual violence by Hamas fighters

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/06/1217668564/israel-hamas-rape-sexual-violence-oct-7

Edited December 7, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Morch]

4 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Blame the US if you must, but  can you tell me what peace  initiatives have been proposed by Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Qatar, Jordan and Syria; all administrations that would have more sway over Palestinian representatives ?

 

Reports say the Camp David initiative got close until Yasser Arafat walked away. He later complimented Clinton by telling him "You are a great man” Clinton responded, "I am not a great man. I am a failure, and you made me one."

 

Arab Peace Initiative

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed. 

 

A post in which the quoted content had been altered has been removed.

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Oblivious to updated news and meetings...............

 

Israel presses U.N. to investigate charges of sexual violence by Hamas fighters

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/06/1217668564/israel-hamas-rape-sexual-violence-oct-7

Nothing in the article that states that Israel’s Ambassador to the United Nations, Gilad Erdan will cooperate

with a UN Commission 

I did notice that NPR posted "NPR cannot independently verify allegations of sexual violence."

And ABC News states here

The presentation by Israel's mission to the UN was organised to bring attention to the alleged sexual violence committed by Hamas-led militants against Israeli civilians on October 7.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-06/israel-hamas-sexual-assault-allegations/103194530

[Eloquent pilgrim]

3 hours ago, bradiston said:

You didn't inform me of anything I didn't know

 

Come along now, don’t start telling porkies; you didn’t know, until I told you, that Ali Bahraini had been elected to chair the UNHRC. Even then you didn’t believe me and demanded a link for verification.

 

And you obviously didn’t know that Clinton had convened the Camp David Summit in 2000, or you wouldn’t have made your comment about him. Happy to oblige.

 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I guess I am confused. What is a good definition of "Zionist". I understood it to mean people that support Israel as a free state. 

 

Do observant Jews daily prayer not include Zion? 

 

As 'observant' covers a lot of ground, it depends.

 

In Israel, Orthodox/Ultra orthodox Jews are mostly (at least nominally) non-Zionist. They still have ID's, vote, and political parties representing them are pretty much a constant feature in most coalitions (including the current one). While they may ideology object to Zionism, de-facto they are supportive of the elements convenient to or serving them. In broad terms, they are more right-wing leaning. Some of the more extreme factions are anti-Zionists (and indeed identify with Hamas, Iran and so on) - these try to minimize all official contact/recognition of the state, and generally do not partake in the political arena. As for observant Jews which are of other groups, these are generally Zionists.

 

In Hebrew, Zion is a synonym for Jerusalem, so it may feature in prayers, without necessarily carrying the same meaning for all believers. Also, other than core traditional prayers, there's quite a few more recent ones reflecting changes in Judaism, Zionism and, of course, the creation of the State of Israel.

[Bkk Brian]

19 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Nothing in the article that states that Israel’s Ambassador to the United Nations, Gilad Erdan will cooperate

with a UN Commission 

I did notice that NPR posted "NPR cannot independently verify allegations of sexual violence."

And ABC News states here

The presentation by Israel's mission to the UN was organised to bring attention to the alleged sexual violence committed by Hamas-led militants against Israeli civilians on October 7.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-06/israel-hamas-sexual-assault-allegations/103194530

Nothing in the article that states that Israel’s Ambassador to the United Nations, Gilad Erdan will cooperate

with a UN Commission 

 

Why would it, this is from after that date. Again the timeline disagrees with you but then as you're outed now as an apologist its not surprising

 

This really shows your desperation and denialism:

 

"I did notice that NPR posted "NPR cannot independently verify allegations of sexual violence.

 

From the article, Erdan..............

"To these organizations, Israeli women are not women. The rape of Israelis is not an act of rape. Their silence has been deafening," Erdan said Monday. Erdan sent photo evidence of the Hamas assaults to UN Women, the U.N. agency dedicated to women's issues and gender equality, to which the agency did not respond, he said.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Eloquent pilgrim]

27 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Arab Peace Initiative

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

 

Not dissimilar in terms of futility, to my attempts at winning the lottery; the fact that Arafat embraced the initiative immediately, is rather telling.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Not dissimilar in terms of futility, to my attempts at winning the lottery; the fact that Arafat embraced the initiative immediately, is rather telling.

 

You could say the same about most such attempts. As initial offers go, I think it was a fair one - and that Israel made a mistake not taking the chance. As I recall, the Palestinian side did not 'immediately embrace' the initiative, more like cajoled and coerced (as usual). The Hamas 'responded' by carrying out one of it's major bombing attacks.

 

 

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, bradiston said:

I'm not as ignorant as you think. I'm sick of being lectured by you. You're talking 23 years ago. Anything more recent than that? I mean, effective finger lifting? Oh, you mean the $4 billion "aid" the US votes Israel every year? You didn't inform me of anything I didn't know. You overvalue your worth.

Bill Clinton's tenure in office ended on January 20, 2001. How much can someone rationally expect an ex-President to accomplsh?

[placeholder]

55 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

As 'observant' covers a lot of ground, it depends.

 

In Israel, Orthodox/Ultra orthodox Jews are mostly (at least nominally) non-Zionist. They still have ID's, vote, and political parties representing them are pretty much a constant feature in most coalitions (including the current one). While they may ideology object to Zionism, de-facto they are supportive of the elements convenient to or serving them. In broad terms, they are more right-wing leaning. Some of the more extreme factions are anti-Zionists (and indeed identify with Hamas, Iran and so on) - these try to minimize all official contact/recognition of the state, and generally do not partake in the political arena. As for observant Jews which are of other groups, these are generally Zionists.

 

In Hebrew, Zion is a synonym for Jerusalem, so it may feature in prayers, without necessarily carrying the same meaning for all believers. Also, other than core traditional prayers, there's quite a few more recent ones reflecting changes in Judaism, Zionism and, of course, the creation of the State of Israel.

Well, I'd say that they are anti-Zionist in that they don't believe that the State of Israel is religiously meaningful. It's not what the Bible or the Talmud's construal of the Bible has prophesied. On the other hand, I don't think that they mostly have any problem with the Israeli governments mistreatment of the Palestinians. Quite the contrary.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Blame the US if you must, but  can you tell me what peace  initiatives have been proposed by Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Qatar, Jordan and Syria; all administrations that would have more sway over Palestinian representatives ?

 

Reports say the Camp David initiative got close until Yasser Arafat walked away. He later complimented Clinton by telling him "You are a great man” Clinton responded, "I am not a great man. I am a failure, and you made me one."

Those countries are not sponsors and backers of israel and ( presumably ) did not vote for the creation of israel in 1948 by the UN.

We do not know what they are doing behind closed doors, but I'm pretty sure it's not supporting israel's massacres in Gaza. In case you missed it, Egypt and Qatar obtained the pause in the massacres to allow some hostages to be released.

 

If Arafat walked away he must have had a good reason to do so.

[metisdead]

Bickering and baiting posts contravening our Community Standards have been removed. 

[Bkk Brian]

The UN has been infiltrated by the terrorists in Hamas

 

https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1732395071834554642

 

Full reports here

https://unwatch.org/unrwa-obstacle-to-peace/

[Morch]

11 hours ago, placeholder said:

Well, I'd say that they are anti-Zionist in that they don't believe that the State of Israel is religiously meaningful. It's not what the Bible or the Talmud's construal of the Bible has prophesied. On the other hand, I don't think that they mostly have any problem with the Israeli governments mistreatment of the Palestinians. Quite the contrary.

 

Quote

In Israel, Orthodox/Ultra orthodox Jews are mostly (at least nominally) non-Zionist. They still have ID's, vote, and political parties representing them are pretty much a constant feature in most coalitions (including the current one). While they may ideology object to Zionism, de-facto they are supportive of the elements convenient to or serving them. In broad terms, they are more right-wing leaning.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1313412-un-warns-of-‘blatant-disregard-for-basic-humanity’-in-gaza-warfare/page/16/#comment-18537155

 

[Morch]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Those countries are not sponsors and backers of israel and ( presumably ) did not vote for the creation of israel in 1948 by the UN.

We do not know what they are doing behind closed doors, but I'm pretty sure it's not supporting israel's massacres in Gaza. In case you missed it, Egypt and Qatar obtained the pause in the massacres to allow some hostages to be released.

 

If Arafat walked away he must have had a good reason to do so.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

You seem to be stuck in the past. There are long standing peace agreements between Israel and two of it's neighbors (Egypt, Jordan). Other Arab countries in the ME have (official and otherwise) relations with Israel as well. Hollow comments about 'we-don't-know' and 'closed-doors' followed by an assumption based on your biased take is not much to go on. There are actually quite a lot of reports about Saudi Arabia signalling normalization of relations with Israel will be back on track sometimes post-war, unflattering comments about Abbas's role, and very little outright support for Hamas. All of these have been discussed and linked on these topics before. Guess you weren't aware as not on AJ and what with your 'ignore' fetish.

 

Egypt and Qatar did not 'obtain' anything in the way you imply. The pause in the fighting was the product of indirect negotiations between Hamas and Israel, mediated by third-parties (mostly Qatar). 

 

It's not surprising someone who's a Putin cheer-leader would see Arafat in a favorable way.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

The UN has been infiltrated by the terrorists in Hamas

 

https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1732395071834554642

 

Full reports here

https://unwatch.org/unrwa-obstacle-to-peace/

 

I have posted something along these lines (if less strongly, vehemently) when previously discussing human rights organizations in the Gaza Strip. People sometimes fail to realize that UN organizations/forces, human rights organizations, foreign NGO's, investigation committees and so on - rely on local work force, both for everyday stuff and to fill numerous lower-mid level positions 'on the ground'. While there is some nominal screening, it is obviously neither very serious for most positions, nor intended to be otherwise. Can't alienate the bulk of your workers. To a lesser degree, this applies also to the West Bank (and really, almost every relevant zone in the world).

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

The UN has been infiltrated by the terrorists in Hamas

 

https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1732395071834554642

 

Full reports here

https://unwatch.org/unrwa-obstacle-to-peace/

According to Sourcewatch, the UN Watch lobby is for the removal of UN personnel who are considered critical of Israel: “US calls for resignation of UN’s Richard Falk Special rapporteur for Palestinian territories said NGO UN Watch should be investigated to ensure it’s not controlled by Israel” Further, according to Sourcewatch, UN Watch also is funded by the American Jewish Committee since 2001.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/un-watch/

 

[Morch]

25 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

According to Sourcewatch, the UN Watch lobby is for the removal of UN personnel who are considered critical of Israel: “US calls for resignation of UN’s Richard Falk Special rapporteur for Palestinian territories said NGO UN Watch should be investigated to ensure it’s not controlled by Israel” Further, according to Sourcewatch, UN Watch also is funded by the American Jewish Committee since 2001.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/un-watch/

 

 

Richard Falk says a whole lot of things on related matters, mostly anti-Israeli stuff, sometimes in the extreme. This is not very surprising as it seems like q prerequisite as far as the Special Rapporteur for Palestinian Territories job goes. It was also part of my previous post referenced above - most of the positions associated with issues of human rights are (naturally?) filled by people holding similar views, and often similar politics. Toss in the way UN bodies are being governed, and there you go. It has come to the level that if such a person makes a balanced comment (see ICC's Khan statements regarding war crimes in this war), he is seem as 'biased' toward Israel.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

According to Sourcewatch, the UN Watch lobby is for the removal of UN personnel who are considered critical of Israel: “US calls for resignation of UN’s Richard Falk Special rapporteur for Palestinian territories said NGO UN Watch should be investigated to ensure it’s not controlled by Israel” Further, according to Sourcewatch, UN Watch also is funded by the American Jewish Committee since 2001.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/un-watch/

 

OK good. Nothing whatsoever to do with the report and evidence in the article I linked to.

 

Here's some who were suspended last year

 

UN Agency Suspends 6 Staff for Calling to Murder Jews June 29, 2022

“Teachers who call to murder Jews must be barred from the classroom for life, while these temporary suspensions are just a slap on the wrist,” said Hillel Neuer, executive director of UN Watch, an independent non-governmental organization based in Geneva.

https://unwatch.org/un-agency-suspends-6-staff-for-calling-to-murder-jews/

Edited December 8, 2023 by Bkk Brian