Irishman’s life hangs by a thread after mosquito bite in Thailand

[kwilco]

9 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Nonsense! Government hospitals are funded by Government, from tax revenue and from insurance policies operated by the government, as such they are not for profit.

 

 

 

 

You said "larger hospitals are excellent" this is not true.

Now you are talking about government hospitals.

Can you tell me what criteria you are using to suggest "excellent"?

[proton]

19 hours ago, Bazerino said:

I have just spent the last 5 days in agony, worst headache ever my eyes also felt painful, my whole body aches, muscles & bones ache & have no energy, i couldnt sleep as the pain was unbearable, eventually went to a private hospital, they said my blood pressure was high & I had a fever, I explained to the doctor all my symptoms, she then said do you want a brain scan, it got me worried, but declined, sent me off with Tramadol, a pain Killer that raises your blood pressure and can increase the risk of a heart attack or stroke & vertigo pills, they put blood pressure sleeve half over my t shirt, I had them check again with it on properly & my blood pressure went down, I had a blood test today & I have Dengue fever, its a relief to know what is actually wrong with me, but also worrying about this poor guy, It cost me 3,800 baht to check my blood pressure, worry the crap out of me & 3 lots of tablets, I have health insurance but the access would cost me more than the hospital bill.....

 

 

The risk of a heart attack from tramadol is almost unknown and the effects on blood pressure are minimal in a very small percentage of people taking it. From Drug.com https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/tramadol-raise-lower-blood-pressure-3553892/

 

• Studies on tramadol have reported that between 1% and 5% of people taking the extended-release version and a very small number of people taking the fast-acting version developed high blood pressure (hypertension).
• Less than 1% of people taking tramadol developed low blood pressure (hypotension) in studies.

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, kwilco said:

You said "larger hospitals are excellent" this is not true.

Now you are talking about government hospitals.

Can you tell me what criteria you are using to suggest "excellent"?

I was always referring to larger government hospitals (District/Regional) where the more talented doctors who want to practise medicine, rather than just make money, are employed for at least part of their working week.

 

Medical excellence doesn't require clarification!

 

Go look at the doctors pages on any private hospital web site, these are the specialists that are available for consultation for a fee. Where do you think they work when they are waiting to be called for a private consultation!

[Lopburikid]

3 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Date of his departure - that is bad luck. But maybe he/family still have a claim - Denque does not 'happen' so suddenly - he obviously caught it while he was insured and became extremely ill on the last day of the policy. That might take appeals to Tribunals and Courts - but maybe worth it. But right now there are far more important things for the family to worry about. Hope he gets through it.   

I was unwell for about 5 days. went to a hospital was told I had flu, went home 3 days later got worse went to a different hospital and was told I had dengue fever. 6 days in hospital Private room, 24hr doctor and nurse attention, blood test, urine test. poo test, and x-rays. all for B38,500. paid for by health insurance.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Medical excellence doesn't require clarification!

Thai health industry must love you - total putz!

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

I was always referring to larger government hospitals (District/Regional) where the more talented doctors who want to practise medicine, rather than just make money, are employed for at least part of their working week.

 

Medical excellence doesn't require clarification!

 

Go look at the doctors pages on any private hospital web site, these are the specialists that are available for consultation for a fee. Where do you think they work when they are waiting to be called for a private consultation!

You post is a fine example of what is wrong with the Thai healthcare ins=dustry and why most lay-persons don't have a clue.

[Mike Lister]

Just now, kwilco said:

Thai health industry must loe you - total putz!

Perhaps you can rewrite your post in English?

[Mike Lister]

Just now, kwilco said:

You post is a fine example of what is wrong with the Thai healthcare ins=dustry and why most lay-persons don't have a clue.

Try adding a few more words so that not only you understand what you're trying to say.

[kwilco]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

Try adding a few more words so that not only you understand what you're trying to say.

You've said it all.

[Mike Lister]

10 minutes ago, kwilco said:

You've said it all.

Every doctor who graduates in Thailand must spend a minimum of three years working in government hospitals or repay 400k to cover the cost of their training. There is a shortage of doctors in government hospitals, only about 50% remain in the national system whilst the remainder work outside of it. This results in a doctor patient ratio of 1:2,000 whereas the global ratio is 3:1,000. This results in many new doctors gaining huge amounts of experience in a short period of time and then moving into the private sector to increase their income. Many don't, many become doctors and remain in the state system because they want to contribute to health care for the general population rather than those patients who can afford to pay. Yet others split their time between both government, private hospitals and their own clinic. Today, there is an oversupply of doctors in the private sector with each private hospital listing over 300 specialists' that are available for consultation, if required, in the meantime these doctors continue their work in the government system or at their own clinic. This doesn't mean that each private hospital has 300 specialists on staff, it simply means the 300 have privileges' at that private hospital which has a much smaller core staff that are actual hospital employees.

 

In a previous life I worked for Mt Sinai Hospital in Miami Beach, in yet another life I spent considerable time inside the medical system in the north. In cities that have medical training facilities such as CMU, the picture becomes more complicated since the university hospitals tend to be the center of excellence, rather than the District Hospital. Outside of those places, the District or Category A Hospitals is where the more complicated cases end up, because they are better equipped and have the best doctors and that is where the best doctors want to work within the government  system. I was talking with an Orthopedic Surgeon last week, he has worked in the nearby District Hospital for 35 years, plus he has his own clinic which is excellent. I had just been advised to have a discectomy by a doctor at a private hospital, that was his single proposal to me, take it or leave it. The District Hospital doctor said that surgery was the very last option, after trying a number of different approaches including meds and therapy, 9 out of 10 will resolve themselves over time. He reaffirmed that the mindset was totally different between private sector and public sector doctors, one primarily wants money, the other primarily wants to heal patients.

[Bazerino]

On 12/14/2023 at 6:40 PM, steve187 said:

my understanding it that one should get cover from leaving home country to returning to home country, there was a thread on here that explained this a short while ago

 I have always done it this way, anything can happen from getting to the airport in your home country, always insure a bit more that I need just in case as it costs more to add extra days months etc.....

[Bazerino]

23 hours ago, proton said:

 

The risk of a heart attack from tramadol is almost unknown and the effects on blood pressure are minimal in a very small percentage of people taking it. From Drug.com https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/tramadol-raise-lower-blood-pressure-3553892/

 

• Studies on tramadol have reported that between 1% and 5% of people taking the extended-release version and a very small number of people taking the fast-acting version developed high blood pressure (hypertension).
• Less than 1% of people taking tramadol developed low blood pressure (hypotension) in studies.

Sorry, may of not made it clear, Tramadol & arcoxia 90 mg which can raise blood pressure....

[whereyougo]

On 12/14/2023 at 7:34 PM, Stocky said:

WTF!

Sure ICU is not cheap, but that's heart stopping.

They charge everything even simple band aid or a sponge bath. Sounds normal to me. Of course there are  many other things 

[Hawaiian]

On 12/14/2023 at 1:38 PM, bradiston said:

What you quote is almost exactly what I pay per month here in Thailand for in patient cover. But I'm 73 with a heart condition. Maybe people should look at getting properly covered at home, by a policy which includes at least some travel.  Might work out about the same, or even cheaper.

I never bought travel insurance before Covid.  I do now.  At 84 years old I am more vulnerable.  I buy Allianz through Priceline and pay about $190 USD total for both me and my girl.  Thirty day policy with good Covid coverage.  Both of have tested positive, but asymptomatic.  Never got seriously sick in Thailand before. Still you never know.  That is what insurance is for.

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian said:

I never bought travel insurance before Covid.  I do now.  At 84 years old I am more vulnerable.  I buy Allianz through Priceline and pay about $190 USD total for both me and my girl.  Thirty day policy with good Covid coverage.  Both of have tested positive, but asymptomatic.  Never got seriously sick in Thailand before. Still you never know.  That is what insurance is for.

I think for Brits, we're used to free hospitals and forget it doesn't work like that abroad. Very few insure themselves in the UK, I don't suppose.

[GinBoy2]

I've had dengue twice, both times extremely unpleasant thought my head was gonna explode.

 

Both times started off feeling like a cold for a few days, them BAM woke up feeling like a helicopter had landed on my head.

 

Not sure how the transition to hemorrhagic dengue works, but it's odd that this poor fella transitioned so fast in a taxi to the airport.

 

For most dengue you just retire to a very dark room, tons of ibuprofen and tough it out 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 12/16/2023 at 4:26 PM, Lopburikid said:

I was unwell for about 5 days. went to a hospital was told I had flu, went home 3 days later got worse went to a different hospital and was told I had dengue fever. 6 days in hospital Private room, 24hr doctor and nurse attention, blood test, urine test. poo test, and x-rays. all for B38,500. paid for by health insurance.

That sounds about right for Hospital costs in Thailand.  Bangkok Hospital is running a massive scam becausae he is a tourist - 2700 Euros a day is over 100K Baht a day.

[kwilco]

On 12/15/2023 at 8:08 AM, Mike Lister said:

All private hospitals are a business, government hospitals are not.

Don't think you know how government hospitals are run

[tgw]

On 12/15/2023 at 12:22 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

What are the different types of car insurance in Thailand? (roojai.com)

 

 

none of these car insurances offer unlimited medical costs coverage, they are all capped at 500.000 baht.

[Spock]

On 12/15/2023 at 3:07 PM, Andrew65 said:

I lived for 20 years in Thailand, and besides a year or 2 of company-related insurance, I never had health insurance. It was the luck of the draw that I never got seriously ill. I do have an pre-existing condition, which would make it more expensive.

I believe that once we reach 70 years old premiums can become prohibitively expensive.

That's what I am - 70. I am aware of one relatively cheap insurance in Thailand that requires a 100000 baht excess for over 70's. Doesn't seem that others exist for 70 year olds taking out an in country insurance for the first time to live in Thailand.

[jacko45k]

On 12/14/2023 at 6:40 PM, steve187 said:

my understanding it that one should get cover from leaving home country to returning to home country, there was a thread on here that explained this a short while ago

The point is if one extends one's stay, beyond the original plans. Pretty sure cover will be originally limited to say a month or whatever... more time, more risk, more premium. Easy to forget to extend cover in that case.....

[JimTripper]

On 12/15/2023 at 8:14 AM, Older and Wiser said:

What I can't understand is why it is so severe in his case. Dengue is not rare by any means and very seldom a problem unless the patient is young, old or has other conditions. They don't even bother to hospitalise most cases and it passes in only a few days. He's only 36 and seems to be fit and strong. So what's different here?

In my experience they figure the worst possible case scenario and it's up to you to refuse any treatments (vs a place in the Usa, for example, that would screen out low probability conditions and not test for those, or not bother with a treatment for something that would just clear on it's own 95% of the time).

 

Kind of like going in for something minor and getting every possible test for something it could be related to. What should be done is the doctor should screen from experience and kind of know what should be treated, rather then just treating every possibility even if it has a small chance of being the cause.

 

The intubation thing may not be "needed", but rather something that's being extremely careful. Thus they ask for permission. So the family asks is it really required? Well, yes. It's required if it's ultimately needed, even if the chance is rare. That sort of thing. What you need is a doctor that makes those decisions on their own with professional competence from experience.

[Flyguy330]

This was an interesting discussion but faded away. Does anyone know what happened to the guy in this story? Did he survive?

 

The debate between Kwilco and Mike Lister was also very useful. You both sound like you have insider knowledge of Thai medicine, but yet opposing views. Very confusing and a bit worrying. I'd like to have seen this one resolved for all our sakes. Please comment again.

[Liverpool Lou]

"Despite having holiday insurance, it had expired..."

 

I.e. he had no insurance. 

[Lorry]

Lots of posters in this thread show frightening ignorance. Especially willful ignorance of hospital prices in Thailand. 

 

Travel insurances are often valid for a certain period,  often the flight dates. 

Not always, though.  

The typical EU tourist has a policy that covers any trip he takes, as long as the trip is not longer than a certain period of time (usually 1 or 2 months).

This kind of policy costs, in Ireland, 71.48 € per year - with Allianz, which is expensive. 

Coverage is often unlimited,  the lowest limit I have ever seen from Western Europe was 350,000 €.

You can get this kind of policy for 8 (eight) euros per year.

Some policies extend coverage if you cannot make it home,  some don't. 

Some exclude trips to the US.

 

Dengue is by far the most common disease 36 y.o. tourists catch in Thailand. 

It can be life threatening (and deadly).  If so, you don't want to be in a district hospital (a couple of years ago, a 21 y.o. foreign tourist died from Dengue, treated in a district hospital in the north. BTW a district hospital is the amphur hospital, not a real hospital in Western eyes - a provincial hospital like Nakorn Ping in CM is usually quite capable to deal with dengue).

 

The new Qdenga vaccine from Takeda is available in the EU, but not easy to get. It is better than the old Dengvaxia from Sanofi, but it's not recommended for  tourists. Recommrnded for people who live here and are not old yet (opinions differ about the age limit).

 

An ICU in a Thai private hospital is the only place with 24h surveillance, because otherwise they have single rooms. So an ICU may really be just a room with a nurse and an iv drip.

But often,  the ICU patients require and receive intensive care. This seems to be the case here.

A patient who needs constant surveillance will be put in the ICU if he is in a private hospital.  But in the government hospital,  he may be in the general ward under the caring eyes of 28 fellow patients and a handful of nurses/nurse assistants - if he just needs observation, not intensive care. 

 

100,000 B/d is very cheap for ICU in a private hospital (it's the treatment,  not the room rate, that is expensive). This is not Bangkok Hospital, they are much more expensive. BTW in the US, ICU isn't  2,700 €/d, more like 27,000 €/d, and many other countries like China, HK, Singapore have private hospitals that are much more expensive than the ones in Thailand. 

 

OTOH, the price of 179,000 USD for an airlift to Europe is very high.  This can be had for 70,000 USD, if you are lucky.  120,000 USD should definitely be possible. 

 

Many (not all) private hospitals  have double pricing. So do many (not all) government hospitals.  In the tourist south, all hospitals have it.

Hospital prices have skyrocketed during the last years,  In the tourist south, they have doubled since before covid. In Bangkok Phuket Hospital, be happy if you get a bed at any price,  they don't need you,  you need them. 

In the rest of the country,  if you had treatment a couple of years before covid,  prices may have doubled by now.

 

[paddypower]

On 12/28/2023 at 9:46 AM, Spock said:

That's what I am - 70. I am aware of one relatively cheap insurance in Thailand that requires a 100000 baht excess for over 70's. Doesn't seem that others exist for 70 year olds taking out an in country insurance for the first time to live in Thailand.

off topic, as we are permanently residing here in Thailand.  our ins. is limited to in-patient. started in our 50's when we retired here. switched to an excellent farang agent (well known here at AN). we're both 80 and still receiving renewal notices. our deductible is minimal. Thai Medical Ins Co.

[steven100]

On 12/14/2023 at 5:58 PM, snoop1130 said:

The Burke family now faces daily bills of 2,700 euros (103,213 baht) for his intensive care, leaving them in a desperate plea for help.

 

 

so what's the latest ....   did they pay the bill?   did he recover ?    

[paddypower]

1 minute ago, paddypower said:

off topic, as we are permanently residing here in Thailand.  our ins. is limited to in-patient. started in our 50's when we retired here. switched to an excellent farang agent (well known here at AN). we're both 80 and still receiving renewal notices. our deductible is minimal. Thai Medical Ins Co.

post script - advice from our agent - NEVER pay your premiums to the agent - (who may go bankrupt or abscond). ALWAYS pay premiums directs to the insurer. and only insure with a

[Spock]

On 8/22/2024 at 10:53 AM, paddypower said:

off topic, as we are permanently residing here in Thailand.  our ins. is limited to in-patient. started in our 50's when we retired here. switched to an excellent farang agent (well known here at AN). we're both 80 and still receiving renewal notices. our deductible is minimal. Thai Medical Ins Co.

Would be interested to know if the agent would still cover a policy begun after 70.

[Harsh Jones]

And..... how is this Thailand fault. I'm about to find out