Anyone Heard Of This

[howtoescape]

Sbk,

Again, as I said before there is mob violence everywhere, but I believe it is much more prevalent here(and in other more group oriented asian societies) than in the west. I really think that you are downplaying this too much. I understand that you are trying to provide some balance.

I tend to agree. UK soccer hooliganism & the extensive reporting thereof might explain a number of the UK results (?). Change "mob" to "gang" (US English) and you'll get slightly different figures, too.

I wonder, too, if the notion that many (?) crimes in the US are gang-related is something that can be assumed might explain the absence of the term in news reports, while in other countries where it's less common it needs to be stated.

I really just wish to highlight the fact that statistics are not always an adequate way to tell a story.

It is indeed scary that the victim was not safe in a hospital.

Football violence in England (not including clubs or England going abroad) was never as prevelant as the newspapers made it out to be, i was a season ticket holder at Newcastle from 1981 when i was 6yo and have been going to games home and away since, and never once have i seen gangs of rival supporters fighting, just the odd drunken punch up.

However i would say that the idea of a one on one fight in this country is fading away, with gangs of kids more happy to beat individuals up.

Only 2 nights ago i witnessed 5 girls no older then 13 throwing sticks and chasing an Asian man of about 40 down the street, fcuken unbelievable i thought.

[LaoPo]

The Scottish Press picked up on the story:

Three UK tourists attacked by gang of 30 in Thailand

POLICE in Thailand are investigating an attack by more than 30 men on a group of British tourists.

Holidaymaker Thomas Patrick suffered a cracked skull after he and two friends were attacked as they ate at a food stall in Nakorn Sawan province, about 130 miles north of Bangkok.

The attackers, including a soldier, began kicking and punching the three Britons, whose home towns are not known, on Sunday morning.

Mr Patrick and two other men - William Stone and Francis Peter - were taken to a hospital, but the same group of attackers reportedly stormed the hospital room and continued to beat them until police arrived.

A police spokesman said Mr Patrick's condition was stable, adding the two other Britons were slightly injured. Police arrested and charged a soldier and another man with assault but are continuing to hunt the other attackers.

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said the incident must be thoroughly investigated by police and the army.

"I believe it will not affect the image of the Thai army as it was more of an isolated incident that involved individuals. The Thai army does not encourage their men to act like hooligans."

This article: http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1127172007

Last updated: 19-Jul-07 13:55 BST

LaoPo

[Johpa]

Who's "they"? Mob beatings happen in many countries.

Perhaps Thailand does really have a problem with mob violence, vigilantism and off duty Policemen acting above the law as certainly appears to be the case.

Perhaps!?! Are you that new to the Kingdom to have a resident doubt?

[Johpa]

I go to Thai bars fairly often, if I dont see another falang all night I'm happy. So I watch Thais fight with eachother, and it's always always always a group on one. I've never even heard of a fight between 2 men in this country... it just doesnt seem to happen, and there are lotsa fights. If you want to argue this go ahead, but I know what I see. I am a professional martial artsit and I don't DARE get into a fight with Thai people, I will lose, I can't fight some dude and his 10 friends and get away without serious injury, I just can't. So I swallow my pride and keep smiling. I don't think it's a phenomenon aimed at falangs though, it is just the way it is done here, they do it to eachother waaaaay more than they do it to us.

Damian Mavis

My observations over the past 25 years are the same as Damian's. When I go to Thai bars with my Thai friends and we notice that there are other tables that are occupied by overly boisterous and drunk folks then we always leave after the first round of drinks and find a safer place to drink. Thai people know better than to hang around drunk Thai men in public places as most often the guys who get drunk in public are the known nak lengs.

[Prakanong]

I go to Thai bars fairly often, if I dont see another falang all night I'm happy. So I watch Thais fight with eachother, and it's always always always a group on one. I've never even heard of a fight between 2 men in this country... it just doesnt seem to happen, and there are lotsa fights. If you want to argue this go ahead, but I know what I see. I am a professional martial artsit and I don't DARE get into a fight with Thai people, I will lose, I can't fight some dude and his 10 friends and get away without serious injury, I just can't. So I swallow my pride and keep smiling. I don't think it's a phenomenon aimed at falangs though, it is just the way it is done here, they do it to eachother waaaaay more than they do it to us.

Damian Mavis

My observations over the past 25 years are the same as Damian's. When I go to Thai bars with my Thai friends and we notice that there are other tables that are occupied by overly boisterous and drunk folks then we always leave after the first round of drinks and find a safer place to drink. Thai people know better than to hang around drunk Thai men in public places as most often the guys who get drunk in public are the known nak lengs.

Experienced the same myself in Bangkok with Thai colleagues and upcountry in various places.

[tpthai2]

Tourists beaten by 30-man gang (BKK Post .. Thursday evening.

Police arrested a Thai soldier for participating in an attack by 30 men on three British tourists as they ate at a food stall north of the Thai capital, police said Thursday (July 19th).

Thomas Donald Patrick suffered a cracked skull after he and two friends were attacked in Nakorn Sawan province, about 210 kilometers (130 miles) north of Bangkok, said police Col. Pranom Manmuang.

//edit //

[Maejo Man]

Tourists beaten by 30-man gang

Police arrested a Thai soldier for participating in an attack by 30 men on three British tourists as they ate at a food stall north of the Thai capital, police said Thursday (July 19th).

Thomas Donald Patrick suffered a cracked skull after he and two friends were attacked in Nakorn Sawan province, about 210 kilometers (130 miles) north of Bangkok, said police Col. Pranom Manmuang.

A group of about 30 Thai men, including a soldier, began kicking and punching the three Britons as they dined at a roadside food stall Sunday (July 15th) morning, Pranom said.

An arrested attacker confessed that he was in the group that attacked the British tourists including Patrick – a staff coach of the London-based Tottenam Hotspur youth team.

He said his group did not intend to hurt Patrick but the fighting erupted after a conflict between his group and Patrick’s Thai friends.

Responding to questions about the attack, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said the incident must be thoroughly investigated by police and the army.

"I believe it will not affect the image of the Thai army as it was more of an isolated incident that involved individuals. The Thai army does not encourage their men to act like hooligans," Surayud said.

Patrick and two other men _ William Paul Stone and Francis Benjamin Peter _ were taken to a hospital. But the same group of attackers stormed the hospital room and continued to beat them until police arrived, Pranom said.

Pranom said Patrick's condition was stable, adding the two other Britons were slightly injured.

On Thursday police arrested and charged Sgt Chinaphong Prakobketkorn and another Thai man, Nattapan Jirapong, with assault. The suspects face a maximum seven years in jail if found guilty.

Bangkok Post News Flash

[taxexile]

A group of about 30 Thai men, including a soldier, began kicking and punching the three Britons

the same group of attackers stormed the hospital room and continued to beat them until police arrived.

....... The Thai army does not encourage their men to act like hooligans," Surayud said.

they should send these goons down to the south.

[DamianMavis]

Go read the other thread about this topic.

Damian

[taxexile]

A group of about 30 Thai men, including a soldier, began kicking and punching the three Britons

But the same group of attackers stormed the hospital room and continued to beat them until police arrived,

Patrick's condition was stable, adding the two other Britons were slightly injured.

something seems wrong with these reports , 30 , yes 30 men attack 3 men , and continue the beating until after the victims are in hospital and the police arrive , yet 2 of the victims were only slightly injured and ?????

either the soldiers were using handbags and carlet slippers or the following statement really is true

He said his group did not intend to hurt Patrick

[stumonster]

Patrick’s Thai friends.

either the soldiers were using handbags and carlet slippers or the following statement really is true

He said his group did not intend to hurt Patrick

though we are not informed what the result was for the Thai friends ?

[GreenShone]

Man, he must have done something very very bad or probably pissed some big fish off.

[PattayaAddict]

This is not on ,i will keep an eye on this and see if the Thai police gets involved at all and if they do what the outcome of this attack will be ,i guess its good news that BKK authorities are gonna start installing CCTV cameras around the capital according to recent news

[wasabi]

While this does suck and I don't think its justified for a gang to attack 3 people, I also don't think this indicative of an emerging trend . I think the 3 Brits must have done something to seriously piss off the Thai gang. The average person doesn't need to fear such incidents.

Edited July 19, 2007 by wasabi

[PattayaAddict]

Good point Wasabi ,very true mate

[Jimjim]

If you read the article closely, though, I think the picture of 30-on-3 is misleading. It says that they started attacking the Britons after getting mad at friends of the Britons. So, it's probably that there were more Thais involved on the Britons' side and the Britons somehow joined in or were forced to join in by circumstances. No mention is made of the Thai friends of the victims other than the reason given for the fight starting so it's hard to really tell.

[Jimjim]

I go to Thai bars fairly often, if I dont see another falang all night I'm happy. So I watch Thais fight with eachother, and it's always always always a group on one.

OK, got my husband to read the Komchadluek article.

Thomas Donald Patrick is a staff coach with the Tottenham Hotspurs. He was in a restaurant with a group of Thais when his group got into an argument with another group of Thais. According to the article Mr Patrick and his friends were drunk and making trouble.

An argument and brawl ensued. Someone in his group stabbed a young man in the other group and he is in the hospital, fairly serious.

9-10 people were involved in the brawl, and one soldier has been arrested. Apparently the police are looking for Mr Patrick, who was not badly injured, to hear his role in the incident.

Hmm, so that's funny. The article was more like a group of men fighting a smaller group of men, and flies in the face of those who, like DamianMavis, say it's "always always always" a group on one. I've seen a few bar fights in Thailand myself and they were always a group fighting against another group, and never just a mob on one. So..., yeah. I did see a one-on-one fight, however, and it was a Thai guy fighting his girlfriend because he was jealous about what she was doing with another guy, which I did not see. I did see him fighting her and others merely trying to pull him off and then it was just him grappling with her alone a a bit once security stepped in. He was quite upset.

So, I think the best conclusion one can draw from this story is not that mob beatings are common in Thailand, but that if a fight in Thailand happens a Thai person's friends are perhaps more likely to jump in and defend their mate, resulting in bigger fights. But I'd say mob beatings where a gang or mob of men beat one person are probably not as common as some here would like to make them out to be.

Also, we don't know the situation, and but the drunk Britons certainly could have had an equal part in starting a drunken fight between many people. And, not the Britons, but someone in their group possible stabbed someone in the other group. So wouldn't they be quite upset at this display of violence? Sounds like this wasn't a mob beating but more like a big brawl.

[farangconnection]

I thought 'Group' fighting happened everywhere. Isn't that what ' WAR' is?

[Jimjim]

farangconnection, what a good name. Reminds me of a good movie. Instead of posting anymore on this topic I think I'll go watch The French Connection.

[Prakanong]

I go to Thai bars fairly often, if I dont see another falang all night I'm happy. So I watch Thais fight with eachother, and it's always always always a group on one.

OK, got my husband to read the Komchadluek article.

Thomas Donald Patrick is a staff coach with the Tottenham Hotspurs. He was in a restaurant with a group of Thais when his group got into an argument with another group of Thais. According to the article Mr Patrick and his friends were drunk and making trouble.

An argument and brawl ensued. Someone in his group stabbed a young man in the other group and he is in the hospital, fairly serious.

9-10 people were involved in the brawl, and one soldier has been arrested. Apparently the police are looking for Mr Patrick, who was not badly injured, to hear his role in the incident.

Hmm, so that's funny. The article was more like a group of men fighting a smaller group of men, and flies in the face of those who, like DamianMavis, say it's "always always always" a group on one. I've seen a few bar fights in Thailand myself and they were always a group fighting against another group, and never just a mob on one. So..., yeah. I did see a one-on-one fight, however, and it was a Thai guy fighting his girlfriend because he was jealous about what she was doing with another guy, which I did not see. I did see him fighting her and others merely trying to pull him off and then it was just him grappling with her alone a a bit once security stepped in. He was quite upset.

So, I think the best conclusion one can draw from this story is not that mob beatings are common in Thailand, but that if a fight in Thailand happens a Thai person's friends are perhaps more likely to jump in and defend their mate, resulting in bigger fights. But I'd say mob beatings where a gang or mob of men beat one person are probably not as common as some here would like to make them out to be.

Also, we don't know the situation, and but the drunk Britons certainly could have had an equal part in starting a drunken fight between many people. And, not the Britons, but someone in their group possible stabbed someone in the other group. So wouldn't they be quite upset at this display of violence? Sounds like this wasn't a mob beating but more like a big brawl.

So now you narrow the definition of a mob beaten to many onto one?

You do not define 30+ onto 3 as a mob beating?

Your anecdotes do not make data either - go and try a randomised double blind test - I will be the placebo and sit in the corner quiety anonymous!

[Prakanong]

Man, he must have done something very very bad or probably pissed some big fish off.

Yeah - blame the victim

Its along the lines of "She was asking for it"

Edited July 20, 2007 by Prakanong

[gburns57au]

Payback time for all the problems UK Soccer thugs have caused in LOS......

From the story it appears that only the Brits were injured and taken to hospital where the mob attacked them again...So it would seem that the Brits have got themselves caught up in something dodgy or done something to mega P*** off a lot of people, hence the continued attack. Be interesting to hear the full story...

Prakanong....3 Brits having breakfast does not P*** off 30 odd Thai men to this extent, There must be something that has caused this, whether they got caught up in a gang fight or whatever, we dont really know...but for some reason the Brits became the target of the attacks even if they werent the original targets.

Edited July 20, 2007 by gburns57au

[Briggsy]

In answer to the OP's question, the answer is very familiar in the kingdom. That is, "Because they can get away with it."

With no information, I'd also like to bet that alcohol was a contributing factor. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Prakanong]

Payback time for all the problems UK Soccer thugs have caused in LOS......

From the story it appears that only the Brits were injured and taken to hospital where the mob attacked them again...So it would seem that the Brits have got themselves caught up in something dodgy or done something to mega P*** off a lot of people, hence the continued attack. Be interesting to hear the full story...

Prakanong....3 Brits having breakfast does not P*** off 30 odd Thai men to this extent, There must be something that has caused this, whether they got caught up in a gang fight or whatever, we dont really know...but for some reason the Brits became the target of the attacks even if they werent the original targets.

Having breakfast - I thought it was night-time at a bar.

Whatever tme it was I think we now know 3 Brits were with some other thai guy's who got into a fight with Thai guy's at the next table.

Something caused that fight - could be anything. Maybe the army guy said something to the Thai's with the Brits about beingwith farang? - I have certainly hard that from a table next to me but with girls and we just went. I am just speculating here though so thats meaningless

Afterwards the 30 went to the hospital looking for the Brits

Why they did that? - easily identifiable would be the obvious choice - their Thai friends might hav melted into the night!

Holding a bigger grudge against the outsider - certainly seen that happen at home when locals with outsiders have fought other locals.

Maybe the Brit flattened one of the Thai's making him loos face - who knows.

[Basch]

I can only agree with the people who have been living here for a long time(like myself) and who have seen the exact same kinds of fights. Out of the various fights that I witnessed every single one of them ended up being a mob vs. one or two guys incident and the unconscious victim was in the end always stomped on the head by the whole group, completely insane behaviour(and if the cracked skull of the english guy is true I am sure it also was done to him). Once I saw a 10 guy mob vs. 1 fight and the guy was only saved before getting seriously hurt by a nearby elderly food hawker who brought a baseball bat along and rushed to help immediately so the mob ran off(10 youngsters). And like a prior member mentioned, whether you have extensive fighting experience or martial arts knowledge or not, in the end that won't help if you face a mob and if you are alone. Another time I saw a small mob against 1 guy who was already unconscious and bleeding from the head after a severe stomping when the mob returned with a chair to slam it on his head but somehow was stopped by local waitresses(happened in a Jatuchak whiskey bar). The crazy thing also is that the mob might consist of random people joining in in case you happen to be alone, that is especially the case if you are a foreigner but mostly violence remains among the locals. I am not generally saying this only happens here, a friend of mine had the same thing in Indonesia, he got assaulted by 2 local people, defended back and a random local mob formed and beat the crap out of him. From my experience it happens all over asia(with exceptions being maybe Japan but I dunno it well enough over there, been there only once), especially great china as well where weapon use is common and being careful paramount. But especially here it is the only way people seem to fight and ask any thai friends that you have, no matter what social background they have or where they come from or whether they have been living abroad for most of their lives or studying overseas or not and they will completely agree with that, whether you ask students, lawyers, engineers, local bar dudes or women(and I have done so). I have also heard Managing Directors considering sending a group of paid ex-muay thai mobsters after some big business guy for being merely verbally assaulted. The culture here is very different. Losing face and verbal assaults are taken very seriously. Step on someone's feet by accident and don't apologize it might be only the fact that the local thinks he can't communicate with you that saves you from a fight. And please ask your thai friends, most of them will not only agree with all of this but will somehow consider it to be totally normal, like so many other things that happen here every day and us farang have problems to understand. Some of the reasons for this behaviour I have heard from thai people themselves include that joining the mob keeps you safe whereas helping the loner will put you in severe danger as well as the reason for hurting someone so badly helps preventing retaliations(which are very common here). And alcohol overuse and pride. Therefore another fact that can be added to the "very thai" sections of various publications. And all that is different from the way people think or act in europe or other western countries if I look around my circle of friends, I frankly don't understand why some people here try to deny that. I have lived 30 years in western countries and have never ever seen anything even close to a mob beating there in the same way they happen here under similar circumstances and in only a few years I have seen only fights like described above happen over here.

Basch

Edited July 20, 2007 by Basch

[Prakanong]

Difficult reading you Basch but again yes.

And again yes all over Aisa and a very good point about randm mobs forming - not even pals of the original guy - heard that in Indo and Malay too

Yes too about the big guys - just look at the head of a Korean Chaebol just jailed for 18 months for exactly that!

Singapore might be an exception though I live close to where the SDF pick up NS each morning and walk past them to the bus. I was just thinking this morning I can not imagine this lot forming a gang and going to a hospital to beat me up - maybe wishful thinking!

[gburns57au]

Having breakfast - I thought it was night-time at a bar.

A group of about 30 Thai men, including a soldier, began kicking and punching the three Britons as they dined at a roadside food stall Sunday (July 15th) morning,

Could have been early hours I suppose.....

[gburns57au]

Mob Violence is a global thing not just a Thai thing, it is no less prevalent in other countries.

We have all seen the guys drag that driver from a truck and drop concrete on his head during the LA riots,

We have seen the UK soccer fans in Europe, as well as their counterparts in Europe,

We in Oz remember the recent events in Cronulla NSW.

Being social creatures we form social packs, when one of our pack is attacked, we help...Most pack animals do the same thing and we are basically pack animals. Safety in numbers is what it is all about.

The Bikie creed.....if one bikie bleeds, they all bleed. The same applies to Footy clubs etc....

So to all who say it is more prevalent in Thailand.....Hogwash...it is human nature

Edited July 20, 2007 by gburns57au

[Basch]

Mob Violence is a global thing not just a Thai thing, it is no less prevalent in other countries.

We have all seen the guys drag that driver from a truck and drop concrete on his head during the LA riots,

We have seen the UK soccer fans in Europe, as well as their counterparts in Europe,

We in Oz remember the recent events in Cronulla NSW.

Being social creatures we form social packs, when one of our pack is attacked, we help...Most pack animals do the same thing and we are basically pack animals. Safety in numbers is what it is all about.

The Bikie creed.....if one bikie bleeds, they all bleed. The same applies to Footy clubs etc....

So to all who say it is more prevalent in Thailand.....Hogwash...it is human nature

True, it is human nature but you are missing the point that over here it happens every single time there is a fight, no matter how small and insignificant they seem to be and not only on certain, isolated occasions as above mentioned by you. That is a big difference, isn't it?

[Prakanong]

Mob Violence is a global thing not just a Thai thing, it is no less prevalent in other countries.

We have all seen the guys drag that driver from a truck and drop concrete on his head during the LA riots,

We have seen the UK soccer fans in Europe, as well as their counterparts in Europe,

We in Oz remember the recent events in Cronulla NSW.

Being social creatures we form social packs, when one of our pack is attacked, we help...Most pack animals do the same thing and we are basically pack animals. Safety in numbers is what it is all about.

The Bikie creed.....if one bikie bleeds, they all bleed. The same applies to Footy clubs etc....

So to all who say it is more prevalent in Thailand.....Hogwash...it is human nature

True, it is human nature but you are missing the point that over here it happens every single time there is a fight, no matter how small and insignificant they seem to be and not only on certain, isolated occasions as above mentioned by you. That is a big difference, isn't it?

And as in the case of football fans fighting and bikie gangs - it is pre-meditated - they are going for that or if not going for that they are in a situation where its all for one etc

LA Riots - its part of the bigger picture

In Thailand its almost every time there is a fight (see I said almost to satisfy pedants) and its spontaneous - ie not planned - a spark sets it off and they form mobs.

To think there is not a qualitative difference is blindeness.