Is my landlord extorting me on filing a TM 30?

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Then the real problem is that the OP is gaming the system and is now complaining about having to pay 500 baht for inconveniencing his landlord every time that he leaves and reenters the country... If I were his landlord it would be allot more than 500 baht... you have assumed that he is not on a marriage visa... I assumed that if he was here living full time and married to a Thai wife that he is on a marriage visa... why don't we ask him which it is?

The OP can do the TM30 himself as he is the housemaster/house possessor.... assuming he has a lease/rental agreement of course.

[Gottfrid]

On 12/19/2023 at 3:51 PM, JoseThailand said:

 

Where did you find better hospitals in neighboring countries? From what I saw, neighboring countries like Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam are so much worse and more expensive.

Hey, you forgot Myanmar and Malaysia. They are super! 

[Skipalongcassidy]

39 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

The OP can do the TM30 himself as he is the housemaster/house possessor.... assuming he has a lease/rental agreement of course.

He just wants to bitch about being charged for the service... he thinks that the landlord should do it each and every time that he leaves and re-enters the country... no problem... pay her.

[Skipalongcassidy]

2 hours ago, Liquorice said:

There is no type of visa known as a 'marriage' visa.

 

Colloquialism is marriage visa........... everyone but you understands that... so given that... 

Things you need to know about the Thai marriage visa:

Thailand marriage visa is the popular term for "1-Year Extension of Stay Based on Marriage".

This is a long term Thai visa issued to a foreign national who is married to a Thai and meets the other requirements of the immigration bureau.

The Thai marriage visa holder is entitled permission to stay for a full year in Thailand without the need to exit the country.

The visa is renewable every year and the renewal process can be done inside Thailand (requirements for the visa renewal still apply).

The Thailand Marriage Visa also allows the holder to work in Thailand when the visa holder is able to obtain a valid Thai Work Permit to go along with the visa.

This is considered an advantage to prospective foreigner employees as the employer would only have to be concerned about the procurement of work permit.  In addition there is no need for border runs... 90 day renewals can be done online.

[Liquorice]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Colloquialism is marriage visa........... everyone but you understands that... so given that... 

Things you need to know about the Thai marriage visa:

Thailand marriage visa is the popular term for "1-Year Extension of Stay Based on Marriage".

This is a long term Thai visa issued to a foreign national who is married to a Thai and meets the other requirements of the immigration bureau.

The Thai marriage visa holder is entitled permission to stay for a full year in Thailand without the need to exit the country.

The visa is renewable every year and the renewal process can be done inside Thailand (requirements for the visa renewal still apply).

The Thailand Marriage Visa also allows the holder to work in Thailand when the visa holder is able to obtain a valid Thai Work Permit to go along with the visa.

This is considered an advantage to prospective foreigner employees as the employer would only have to be concerned about the procurement of work permit.  In addition there is no need for border runs... 90 day renewals can be done online.

Oh dear, now you're being a total idiot and trying to drag me down to your level so you can beat me with your experience.

Do you have a reading comprehension issue.

Do you take any notice of the forms you complete and documents you sign at Immigration.

 

The term 'marriage' visa is also commonly used for the Non O SE visa and Non O ME visa, issued by Thai Embassies /Consulates.
Visas display the type and number of permitted entries.
How many entries does your so-called visa issued by Immigration have.
None, because it's a permit, not a visa.

 

Every form you complete and sign makes it abundantly clear you're applying to extend your permitted period of stay.
TM7 - Application for extension of temporary stay in the Kingdom (extending your period of stay, not the outdated invalid visa)

STM2 - Acknowledgement of terms and conditions for permit of stay in the kingdom
Which goes on to state: I do hereby acknowledge the terms and conditions of this permit.
Even the stamp you receive states 'Extension of stay permitted up to .......'

 

If you could extend a visa beyond its validity, then you wouldn't need a re-entry permit for an extension.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

18 hours ago, Liquorice said:

It was the Immigration authorities that scrapped the TM28, just prior to issuing the new TM30 regulations.

The TM27 replaced the TM28.

If you move to a new permanent residency, it's the TM30 they require.

 

Download the docs in that link I provided - and read them.

And like I said - I recently used the TM28 no problems - and TM30 is for the landlords/owner.

Download Form – สำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมือง – Immigration Bureau

Note - there is no TM27 on the official list provided by Thai Immigration. 

[Liquorice]

6 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

And like I said - I recently used the TM28 no problems

I gave you the link on AN to the Thai Immigration announcement that the TM28 had been scrapped, which was back in the days when you were supposed to notify even a temporary address if staying out of the province for more than 24 hours.
I'm sure they accepted your TM28, then immediately discarded it once you left.
Changes to the requirements for filing a TM30 made the TM28 obsolete.

 

6 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

and TM30 is for the landlords/owner.

No it isn't.

Filing a TM30 is the responsibility of the housemaster, owner or the possessor of the residence (section 38 Imm Act).
Section 4 defines the housemaster as ”any persons who is the chief possessor of a house, whether in the capacity of owner, tenant, or in any other capacity whatsoever, in accordance with the law on people act".

 

8 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Note - there is no TM27 on the official list provided by Thai Immigration. 

Wonder where I got mine from then?

TM 27 Notification of change of Address if different than TM6..pdf 

 

 

[soi3eddie]

On 12/19/2023 at 5:03 AM, JimTripper said:

The next time you renew your lease maybe you have a list of all the docs needed and she provides them all at signing.

Anyone renting a property would be well advised to get a copy of the owner's ID card and Blue book BEFORE paying anything or signing a lease.

 

[JimTripper]

6 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

Anyone renting a property would be well advised to get a copy of the owner's ID card and Blue book BEFORE paying anything or signing a lease.

Definately agree.

 

Who knows what's going on behind the scenes. The lady the Op is talking to may not even be the owner, thus why she won't provide the documents. You never know!

Edited December 21, 2023 by JimTripper

[soi3eddie]

40 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Filing a TM30 is the responsibility of the housemaster, owner or the possessor of the residence (section 38 Imm Act).
Section 4 defines the housemaster as ”any persons who is the chief possessor of a house, whether in the capacity of owner, tenant, or in any other capacity whatsoever, in accordance with the law on people act".

Agreed, however, if the tenant goes to immigration without the owner's ID and Blue book, what will happen? Will the I/O file TM30 or will they fine the tenant? I'd hope that the I/O would file the TM30. Maybe others here can comment on their experience?

 

 

[Skipalongcassidy]

16 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Oh dear, now you're being a total idiot and trying to drag me down to your level so you can beat me with your experience.

Do you have a reading comprehension issue.

Do you take any notice of the forms you complete and documents you sign at Immigration.

 

The term 'marriage' visa is also commonly used for the Non O SE visa and Non O ME visa, issued by Thai Embassies /Consulates.
Visas display the type and number of permitted entries.
How many entries does your so-called visa issued by Immigration have.
None, because it's a permit, not a visa.

 

Every form you complete and sign makes it abundantly clear you're applying to extend your permitted period of stay.
TM7 - Application for extension of temporary stay in the Kingdom (extending your period of stay, not the outdated invalid visa)

STM2 - Acknowledgement of terms and conditions for permit of stay in the kingdom
Which goes on to state: I do hereby acknowledge the terms and conditions of this permit.
Even the stamp you receive states 'Extension of stay permitted up to .......'

 

If you could extend a visa beyond its validity, then you wouldn't need a re-entry permit for an extension.

You are really hung up on number of entries... The process is as easy as 1 2 3. The first step, you obtain a non-immigrant visa. Next, convert the non-immigrant visa to either Marriage Visa or Retirement Visa. These are the visa types that will allow you to stay in Thailand for the whole 1 year (renewable) without going to the border or not leaving the kingdom anymore at all.  You do not need a re-entry permit if you never travel outside of Thailand... and it is still a renewable (not  extended) non o immigrant "VISA" with permission to stay due to marriage.  

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

The first step, you obtain a non-immigrant visa. Next, convert the non-immigrant visa to either Marriage Visa or Retirement Visa. These are the visa types that will allow you to stay in Thailand for the whole 1 year (renewable) without going to the border or not leaving the kingdom anymore at all. 

You extend your permission of stay for 1 year based on retirement or Thai spouse/family, which are permits, not visas.

 

https://www.mfa.go.th/en/page/general-information?menu=5e1ff6d057b01e00a6391dc5

7. Please note that the period of visa validity is different from the period of stay.  Visa validity is the period during which a visa can be used to enter Thailand.  In general, the validity of a visa is 3 months, but in some cases, visas may be issued to be valid for 6 months, 1 year or 3 years.  The validity of a visa is granted with discretion by the Royal Thai Embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General and is displayed on the visa sticker. 

8. On the other hand, the period of stay is granted by an immigration officer upon arrival at the port of entry and in accordance with the type of visa.  For example, the period of stay for a transit visa is not exceeding 30 days, for a tourist visa is not exceeding 60 days and for a non-immigrant visa is not exceeding 90 days from the arrival date.  The period of stay granted by the immigration officer is displayed on the arrival stamp.  Travellers who wish to stay longer than such period may apply for extension of stay at offices of the Immigration Bureau

Edited December 22, 2023 by Liquorice

[Liquorice]

9 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

Agreed, however, if the tenant goes to immigration without the owner's ID and Blue book, what will happen?

Copies of the owner's ID and Blue book are required as proof of the address.
If for any reason the owner will not supply these documents, you should inform your Immigration office.
They have their methods of persuasion to obtain them.

 

As an aside, I have a yellow book and successfully registered on the online TM30 site by uploading a copy of my passport data page, yellow book and pink Thai ID card.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Liquorice

[Ralf001]

20 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

You extend your permission of stay for 1 year based on retirement or Thai spouse/family, which are permits, not visas.

 

From a Thai visa application.

 

"spouse/family" would tick the family box yeah ?

 

Visa-Application-Form.pdf

Edited December 22, 2023 by Ralf001

[Liquorice]

3 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

From a Thai visa application.

 

"spouse/family" would tick the family box yeah ?

 

Visa-Application-Form.pdf

Yes.

[bamnutsak]

10 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

Anyone renting a property would be well advised to get a copy of the owner's ID card and Blue book BEFORE paying anything or signing a lease.

 

 

Agreed.

 

And ensure they are registered on the new TM30 site and can file TM30's.

 

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

12 hours ago, Liquorice said:

I gave you the link on AN to the Thai Immigration announcement that the TM28 had been scrapped, which was back in the days when you were supposed to notify even a temporary address if staying out of the province for more than 24 hours.
I'm sure they accepted your TM28, then immediately discarded it once you left.
Changes to the requirements for filing a TM30 made the TM28 obsolete.

 

No it isn't.

Filing a TM30 is the responsibility of the housemaster, owner or the possessor of the residence (section 38 Imm Act).
Section 4 defines the housemaster as ”any persons who is the chief possessor of a house, whether in the capacity of owner, tenant, or in any other capacity whatsoever, in accordance with the law on people act".

 

Wonder where I got mine from then?

TM 27 Notification of change of Address if different than TM6..pdf 256.46 kB · 0 downloads  

 

 

 

I will again refer you to the official Thai Immigration website where all the official current documents are available for download - the rest is up to you. If you do go there (I assume you did not) you will see that the TM27 is no longer available for download.  But the TM28 is available and as it clearly states on the Thai Immigration website, the TM28 is as follows: APPLICATION FOR ALIENS TO NOTIFY THEIR CHANGE OF ADDRESS OR THEIR STAY IN THE PROVINCE FOR OVER 24 HOURS (TM.28). 

 

I do recall when they 'dropped' the enforcement of notifications if in another Province for 24+ hours - we lived here then. And we 'solved' that problem by always making bookings at hotels etc in my wife's name - and not one hotel/resort has ever demanded to see my documentation - because they dont want all the paperwork etc.  I do believe that they advised a long time ago that notifying stay for more than 24 hours was dropped in TM28, but it is still the document for an Alien to notify of an address change. 

 

There is no TM27 document on the Thai Immigration website, and my local Office accepted my TM28, and this was recorded in my Passport, and in Thailand whatever works, works.  If they take the TM28, then what the f*** is the problem - and with you.  If you want to use the TM27 and demand they accept it, then good luck to you mate.  I will continue to use whatever they will accept. 

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I will again refer you to the official Thai Immigration website where all the official current documents are available for download

https://aseannow.com/topic/1149328-tm28-thai-immigration-scraps-requirement-for-foreigners-to-report-when-they-stay-away-from-home-for-24-hours/

[TroubleandGrumpy]

7 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1149328-tm28-thai-immigration-scraps-requirement-for-foreigners-to-report-when-they-stay-away-from-home-for-24-hours/

Jack - I will again refer you to what they said - and to the Thai Immigration official website:

Download Form – สำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมือง – Immigration Bureau

 

Please read the announcement again - slowly.

TM28: Thai immigration scraps requirement for foreigners to report when they stay away from home for 24 hours

What was scrapped is the requiremnent to  report when they stay away from home for 24 hours

The rest is what the reporter believed the change to mean. 

The TM28 was not scrapped.

[DrJack54]

11 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

The TM28 was not scrapped.

TM30 is now used for address reporting and change of address.

 

Here is a snippet from ubonjoe and stated in many threads.

Think this one 2019/20.

 

"The TM30 report has become the primary means of reporting a change of your registered address that immigration has. It can be done by the owner, possessor or tenet.

The TM27 or TM28 form is seldom asked for now"

[Liquorice]

6 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Jack - I will again refer you to what they said - and to the Thai Immigration official website:

Download Form – สำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมือง – Immigration Bureau

 

Please read the announcement again - slowly.

TM28: Thai immigration scraps requirement for foreigners to report when they stay away from home for 24 hours

What was scrapped is the requiremnent to  report when they stay away from home for 24 hours

The rest is what the reporter believed the change to mean. 

The TM28 was not scrapped.

There is now no requirement to file either a TM30 or TM28 if you temporarily stay away from your permanently registered address, provided you later return to that permanent address.

The new TM30 regulations made the purpose of the TM28 obsolete.
The TM27 was introduced only to notify a change of address than that notified on a TM6, which is now also scrapped.

Provided in the event of a permanent change of address, Immigration are notified via a new TM30, that is all they require.

 

Why does the Thai Immigration website then not show the TM27 for download and still the TM28?
Answer, because they are too lazy to update the site.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

8 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

TM30 is now used for address reporting and change of address.

 

Here is a snippet from ubonjoe and stated in many threads.

Think this one 2019/20.

 

"The TM30 report has become the primary means of reporting a change of your registered address that immigration has. It can be done by the owner, possessor or tenet.

The TM27 or TM28 form is seldom asked for now"

That is true Jack - but.  Read the TM28 and then read the TM30 - the TM28 is far easier to complete and it clearly made for the Alien.

However, if people want to use the TM30 and their local IO accepts it, then that is fine.

My 'argument' with the other member is that the TM28 has not been scrapped - only the mandate to use it to report 24+ hours away has been scrapped - and the TM28 is listed on the official Thai Immigration website - and that the TM27 is not anymore. 

[Ralf001]

3 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Yes.

And that is an extension or a visa ?

[TroubleandGrumpy]

10 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

There is now no requirement to file either a TM30 or TM28 if you temporarily stay away from your permanently registered address, provided you later return to that permanent address.

The new TM30 regulations made the purpose of the TM28 obsolete.
The TM27 was introduced only to notify a change of address than that notified on a TM6, which is now also scrapped.

Provided in the event of a permanent change of address, Immigration are notified via a new TM30, that is all they require.

 

Why does the Thai Immigration website then not show the TM27 for download and still the TM28?
Answer, because they are too lazy to update the site.

Yes that is what the change in the rules was all about - not scrapping the TM28 - scrapping the +24 hour requirement to report.

 

Yes the TM30 can be used to change your address - it is up to you which one to use - if they accept either one, then all is OK.

 

Good point - one should never underestimate the laziness of Thai bureaucrats. 

[Liquorice]

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

And that is an extension or a visa ?

If you're applying through a Thai Embassy/Consulate as your info graph suggests, then it's a visa.
The question is how long do you intend to stay in Thailand, which usually dictates which visa type to apply for.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 12/20/2023 at 6:59 AM, CecilM said:

you could tell the landlord that you will be filing a complaint at revenue board (or whatever it's called) and accept the consequences. Likely he/she isn't paying tax on the rental income.

Just as speculatively likely that the landlord is paying tax or that they are within the zero-tax income band.  But, so what if they're not paying tax on that tiny rental income, how is that any business of yours?

"I'm going to report you to the Revenue Department", such a ridiculous threat to suggest someone makes to the person from whom they're renting their home.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[RocketDog]

On 12/20/2023 at 3:33 AM, Ralf001 said:

You are renting the property.

You are house master.

Do TM-30 yourself.

No need to involve landlord.

Thank you.

When these threads come up I always post the same as you. I figured it out years ago from a post by the late, great @UbonJoe.

 

Then I did it myself several times when renting a house. Never had any pushback from the IO.

The second half of the TM30 is filled by the 'Possesor' of the property. For rentals that is the renter themselves.

 

For some reason this simple answer just keeps being forgotten.