Buy a condo to Airbnb - is it really profitable?

[eyeman]

Current airbnb rentals around the BTS for 30 days seem to be between 1.8-3x per month for what a 1 year contract price would be - for example a 10,000baht room renting for 25,000baht on airbnb.  But you would have to consider that usually you're responsible for the electric, common fees, and water fees, and you it would need a thorough cleaning after each guest, and periods of downtime and cancellations, and you have to kit them to a quiet a high standard - higher than what you're typical furnished rental unit would get. I could see it working if you owned 3-4 in the same building, otherwise I think it just be a bloody headache for what is essentially beer money.

[JoseThailand]

11 minutes ago, eyeman said:

Current airbnb rentals around the BTS for 30 days seem to be between 1.8-3x per month for what a 1 year contract price would be - for example a 10,000baht room renting for 25,000baht on airbnb.  But you would have to consider that usually you're responsible for the electric, common fees, and water fees, and you it would need a thorough cleaning after each guest, and periods of downtime and cancellations, and you have to kit them to a quiet a high standard - higher than what you're typical furnished rental unit would get. I could see it working if you owned 3-4 in the same building, otherwise I think it just be a bloody headache for what is essentially beer money.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking

Edited January 3 by JoseThailand

[jaideedave]

25 minutes ago, mokwit said:

You know who the owner is and can contact her? Years ago I had to move out of an apartment block because of Africans making noise in the night. I would phone their room about the time OF DAY I felt they would be sleeping the deepest and when they picked up I would explain that they were very noisy last night and I couldn't sleep and if I couldn't sleep then i would make sure they couldn't sleep. The were incandescent with rage when it was them having their sleep disturbed.

No we've never met the Chinese owners but we have their phone no. She only responded late at night the 1st time we complained at 1 am. The other times she has responded to my wife's complaints have been the next day.I picture they're living in a posh high rise condo near the sea and not bothered after midnight by loud pool parties.I've told my wife I'm moving out but she thinks I'm kidding. At 73 when I get a rude awakening in the wee hours it f___s me up the whole next day. 

So calling the owner after midnight is not productive as the phone is probably off.

 

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, jaideedave said:

when I get a rude awakening in the wee hours it f___s me up the whole next day. 

I am the same, you have my sympathies.

[bkk6060]

I can name dozens of places in Pattaya and Bangkok that do short and longer term Airbnb.  Places like The Base and The Edge in Pattaya are very popular. There has been no broad crackdown and I bet there never will be.

I think it could be a money maker.  I know a couple of places in Bangkok off the Skytrain they get 25 to 30 k a month.  At that rate they will be paid off in about 10 years.

All about location, but yes I think it could be a hassle managing it.  One good thing about Abnb is they rate the guests so you can weed out the losers.

Edited January 3 by bkk6060

[newnative]

2 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

 

I'm not even talking about this. I'm talking only about the financial aspects. Maybe it's not even worth it even from the financial perspective.

 

As for the "illegality", there is an obvious solution. Make a 1-month contract with every guest with a clause allowing early cancellation.

     I think the financials only work if you are doing a dozen or more condos and you manage to keep them all rented most of the time.  With one condo or a dozen, you need staff to check in and out the guests and check for any damage or missing items. 

    You need additional staff to clean the condo after each rental, wash the linens, and remake the beds.  You need staff to take care of the bookings and the financials, including paying the staff and supervising them. 

    Would I want to do all that for one condo rental?  Not on your life--as I have said many times, I am lazy.  With a dozen or more rentals, you might be able to justify hiring several people to do the work for you--but you would still need to be involved. 

    However, the more condos you have, the more visible you are doing your illegal activity.  With just one condo, I think a long-term rental is the way to go, unless you fancy yourself a combination of front desk staff, maid, accountant, and laundry worker.

   

[PremiumLane]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

That would depend on the complex and rules of.   Some may allow shorter term rentals within the law, and condo rules.

 

Other's strictly against the rules.  Live with your choices.

 

A tourist or few, may be better neighbors than the owner being there year round.

 

Prefer to deal in facts and not "live with your choices"

 

"Analysis conducted by the Economic Policy Institute, a non-profit, non-partisan American think tank, found that the economic costs of Airbnb likely outweigh the benefits:

‘While the introduction and expansion of Airbnb into cities around the world carries large potential economic benefits and costs, the costs to renters and local jurisdictions likely exceed the benefits to travellers and property owners.

 

The ‘Airbnb effect’ slowly increases the value of an area to the detriment of the indigenous residents, many of whom are pushed out due to financial constraints."

 

"Airbnb listings presented by a host owning multiple units in a given city can cause substantially greater disturbances in terms of rent increase, increase in housing value, and displacement of lower-income households. There are also the added issues of disturbances to the local community in terms of noise, erosion of the sense of community and other factors"  

[n00dle]

2 hours ago, mokwit said:

Giving your wife your money to invest in land. What could go wrong.

risky indeed, you could end up judged by some bell end on the internet

Edited January 3 by n00dle

[mokwit]

5 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

 

Prefer to deal in facts and not "live with your choices"

 

"Analysis conducted by the Economic Policy Institute, a non-profit, non-partisan American think tank, found that the economic costs of Airbnb likely outweigh the benefits:

‘While the introduction and expansion of Airbnb into cities around the world carries large potential economic benefits and costs, the costs to renters and local jurisdictions likely exceed the benefits to travellers and property owners.

 

The ‘Airbnb effect’ slowly increases the value of an area to the detriment of the indigenous residents, many of whom are pushed out due to financial constraints."

 

"Airbnb listings presented by a host owning multiple units in a given city can cause substantially greater disturbances in terms of rent increase, increase in housing value, and displacement of lower-income households. There are also the added issues of disturbances to the local community in terms of noise, erosion of the sense of community and other factors"  

Yes but Brian Chesky et al get rich. I would love to turn the house next door to the lovely house he lives in into a party house for people from 'the 'hood'

[n00dle]

The days of Airbnb being an effective way for property owners around the world to bring in some cash are on the wane.

As regulations increase, profits and tenants decrese

[mokwit]

6 minutes ago, n00dle said:

risky indeed, you could end up judged by some <deleted> on the internet

New here? sure there are people where this has been OK, but it is a standard strategy for separating a falang from his money - "Daakling, we are throwing money away not buying land". It gets the money into HER name and the then she outright sells it from under you or hocks it to realise the value.

 

Your comment does NOTHING to help people whereas maybe mine does. So who is the 'bell end' here?

 

Edited January 3 by mokwit

[newnative]

1 hour ago, JoseThailand said:

 

Poor students cannot pay a lot anyway

    What makes you think Thai uni students are poor?  Maybe some, but lots aren't.   Sometime when you get a chance station yourself on Phetchaburi Road in the afternoon and watch all the hoards of Thai students walikng back to the metro station from the expensive private schools they are attending.

    Our first Bangkok getaway condo was at Lumpini Makkasan, a brand new project on Phetchaburi.  When we lived there we met a Thai woman who had bought a small condo there just to stay in during the week with her son while he was in school at one of the private schools.  Weekends and when school was not in session, they went back to their big house in the suburbs. 

   Several other families were doing the same thing.  Well-to-do Thai families put a premium on good educations for their children.  At our new BKK condo, we often see Thai students being tutored after school at the condo sky lounge or the library.  

   A rental near a university can be a good thing.  My Bangkok sister-in-law and her husband, both in banking, have one that they rent out.

[n00dle]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

New here? sure there are people where this has been OK, but it is a standard strategy for separating a falang from his money - "Daakling, we are throwing money away not buying land". It gets the money into HER name and the then she outright sells it from under you or hocks it to realise the value.

 

Your comment does NOTHING to help people whereas maybe mine does.

 

Ah, you were being constructive. 

because all Thai wives are money grubbing ex whores playing the long game.

why didn't you just say so?

 

 

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, n00dle said:

Ah, you were being constructive. 

because all Thai wives are money grubbing ex whores playing the long game.

why didn't you just say so?

 

 

'sure there are people where this has been OK' How does "all" apply to that?

 

look up what "all" means. It is probably best not to comment if your English language comprehension is weak - you will misunderstand posts.

 

[n00dle]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

'sure there are people where this has been OK' How does "all" apply to that?

 

look up what "all" means. It is probably best not to comment if your English language comprehension is weak - you will misunderstand posts.

 

i love how you have convinced yourself that your post was offered up in good spirit. 

[mokwit]

Just now, n00dle said:

i love how you have convinced yourself that your post was offered up in good spirit. 

I'll allow the board to judge for themselves.

[pomchop]

Illegal airbnb is being cracked down on all over the world....and rightly so.  You buy a condo in a building and the HOA rules are  no rentals less than 30/60/90/180/365 days....you do not want to live in a hotel.  So you bought in a building where the rules are clearly outlined by the HOA.  You do not want to go to the pool to find it crammed full of tourists.  You do not want to have to wait for elevators that are being overused by the constant coming and going of airbnb tourists.  You do not want to hear loud obnoxious tourists coming home drunk with hookers at 3 am.  And of course you are angry at the people who openly violate the law and the HOA rules who don't give a crap about how they destroy the condo that you bought to be a home and not full of traveling jerks.

 

Sadly there are way too many buildings in thailand where the HOA refuses to enforce the rules.  Fortunately that number does seem to be declining as more and more owners are fed up with all the BS.  There are a lot of condos that now have signs in the lobby and in elevators reminding airbnb renters that what they are doing is illegal and encouraging the residents to report any units that appear to be violating the rules.  So how many airbnb renters are going to be real thrilled to see those signs and learn that they are violating the law in a foreign country?

 

So if you are thinking of going into the airbnb biz please either buy in a legal airbnb building or just go away and stop being a total dxxkwad.

 

 

 

 

[mokwit]

15 minutes ago, pomchop said:

So how many airbnb renters are going to be real thrilled to see those signs and learn that they are violating the law in a foreign country?

They seem totally unfazed by them - walking past them every day on their way in and out from their illegal ST let.

 

What I have suggested is that anyone caught sneaking up the fire escape should be hand cuffed ('clapped in irons') and if we have no record of them as a tenant, handed over to the police as a trespasser.

Edited January 3 by mokwit

[mokwit]

27 minutes ago, pomchop said:

Illegal airbnb is being cracked down on all over the world....and rightly so.  You buy a condo in a building and the HOA rules are  no rentals less than 30/60/90/180/365 days....you do not want to live in a hotel.  So you bought in a building where the rules are clearly outlined by the HOA.  You do not want to go to the pool to find it crammed full of tourists.  You do not want to have to wait for elevators that are being overused by the constant coming and going of airbnb tourists.  You do not want to hear loud obnoxious tourists coming home drunk with hookers at 3 am.  And of course you are angry at the people who openly violate the law and the HOA rules who don't give a crap about how they destroy the condo that you bought to be a home and not full of traveling jerks.

One that is never mentioned is that every country has its own strains of e.g. influenza so if people are in the lift every day with the equivalent of a UN meeting they are going to get sick more often as they will be exposed to a multitude of strains they have not encountered before. The more people you are exposed to from more countries, the worse it is.

[JoseThailand]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

    What makes you think Thai uni students are poor?  Maybe some, but lots aren't.   Sometime when you get a chance station yourself on Phetchaburi Road in the afternoon and watch all the hoards of Thai students walikng back to the metro station from the expensive private schools they are attending.

    Our first Bangkok getaway condo was at Lumpini Makkasan, a brand new project on Phetchaburi.  When we lived there we met a Thai woman who had bought a small condo there just to stay in during the week with her son while he was in school at one of the private schools.  Weekends and when school was not in session, they went back to their big house in the suburbs. 

   Several other families were doing the same thing.  Well-to-do Thai families put a premium on good educations for their children.  At our new BKK condo, we often see Thai students being tutored after school at the condo sky lounge or the library.  

   A rental near a university can be a good thing.  My Bangkok sister-in-law and her husband, both in banking, have one that they rent out.

 

I'd rather bet on quality tourists looking for short-term stays. They can pay more, especially considering the fact that daily rates are higher than monthly rates.

Edited January 3 by JoseThailand

[ChipButty]

If you are thinking to buy a apartment it has to be something unique, too many of these condo's are just like boxes nothing to give you the WOW factor.

I have looked at a few units in Rawai, they do nothing for me, 

Another thing to consider is the size of the unit guest on airbnb like some space, 

[KhunLA]

56 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

 

I'd rather bet on quality tourists looking for short-term stays. They can pay more, especially considering the fact that daily rates are higher than monthly rates.

Aside from possible illegality of short term rentals, it wasn't a good your for tourist rentals in 2020/21/22 and probably 2023.   Yet the students still needed to be near campus, even if online learning most days.

 

Initial investment would probably be less, not being in a tourist area, or the need to provide the amenities (higher maintenance fees) tourist expect & pay to upkeep them

Edited January 3 by KhunLA

[pomchop]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

They seem totally unfazed by them - walking past them every day on their way in and out from their illegal ST let.

 

What I have suggested is that anyone caught sneaking up the fire escape should be hand cuffed ('clapped in irons') and if we have no record of them as a tenant, handed over to the police as a trespasser.

One friend has a condo in bangkok that put those signs up couple of years ago....it says something like anyone renting an illegal unit will be turned over to police. In his building at least most all of the owners who live there have united against the few axxholes who try to skirt all the rules and there are no more airbnb rentals being done. 

 

Hard to imagine anyone wanting to stay in a unit illegally with those signs prominently posted in elevators and lobby in a variety of languages......but of course no doubt some jerks will say well if it is on airbnb it is their problem and not mine.  I would love to see a major class action lawsuit against airbnb for their participation in profiting off encouraging people to break the law. I have no doubt that there are several big law firms that are working on it right now at least in the usa...Of course in Thailand there is little doubt that the HOA boards, juristic, etc is all getting a cut to look the other way.

[soi3eddie]

4 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Over saturated market. You would need to keep lowering price as your neighbors undercut to where there is little profit or even near break even. Many will rent near breakeven or even at a loss to get customers. They have a map on the app, everyone near you shows up on the map.

@JimTripper Spot on correct! My Thai wife (now ex), used to rent our Bangkok condo on TripAdvisor (Flipkey) from 2011 to 2015. Early days there was only about 100 Bangkok rentals on the platform. Then AirBnB exploded along with mass construction of cheap condo units. We listed with AirBnB and they even sent photographers for pictures of the listing. We never really rented with AirBnB (only 2 bookings IIRC) because their suggested rates were so much lower. It seemed like a race to the bottom, even though our property was large and super well appointed. By the time costs such as cleaning, laundry and electricity (some clients nailed the three A/Cs to 16c and left them on all day) we figured it just wansn't worth it anymore. Probably even worse these days. Bad as an invesment. Get a job or invest elsewhere would be more worthwhile.

 

[donx]

I know this thread is about buying a condo and renting on Airbnb or some other short term rental site. However, there are posts about a villa being rented out short term. My question is, assuming that someone has a townhouse, is it illegal to rent it out short term? If this is the only property being rented out by the landlord, it doesn't appear to violate the Hotel Act which requires a license when renting something like 4 or 5 units or more. And if the townhouse doesn't have an HOA to restrict short term leases, is there any reason such a rental would be considered illegal?

[Peterw42]

Airbnb really only works in places like New York, Sydney etc, Where hotels are in short supply and they are expensive,

Otherwise, Thailand has 1,000s of great well priced hotels, completely legal, with all the usual facilities. There is literally no demand for Airbnb.

As for the OPs question, there is no margin at all.

To be competitive you would be renting for as low as 500 baht a night, and it costs 300 to have it cleaned, another 200 for fresh linen, 100 a day for elec, water, internet, condo fees etc. Wages for someone to meet and greet, and whatever cut Airbnb takes.

I dont know why this still gets discussed, its illegal, and there is no money to be made.

[ChipButty]

You can use Airbnb and set the minimum stay to 30 days, and if you do MTR or LTR then the tenant pays all the bills but you have to state that in your listing details and make the tenant aware from the beginning, then add a security deposit normally 2 months upfront, 

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

There is literally no demand for Airbnb.

Who is going to tell him?

 

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I dont know why this still gets discussed, its illegal, and there is no money to be made.

...but people do it anyway.

[newnative]

15 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

 

I'd rather bet on quality tourists looking for short-term stays. They can pay more, especially considering the fact that daily rates are higher than monthly rates.

     Good luck making that work--and, speaking of work, you will need to do all that work I mentioned in my earlier post yourself to clear any profit if you have just 1 or 2 condos.   And, remember, you are also doing something illegal.  Daily rates may be higher but also remember that you will be paying the condo monthly maintenance fee, the water bill, the electric bill, the tv cable/internet fees, and all the costs for cleaning supplies, breakage, new linens from time to time, etc.  With a long-term tenant, you only pay the condo mainenance.

[jaideedave]

11 hours ago, donx said:

I know this thread is about buying a condo and renting on Airbnb or some other short term rental site. However, there are posts about a villa being rented out short term. My question is, assuming that someone has a townhouse, is it illegal to rent it out short term? If this is the only property being rented out by the landlord, it doesn't appear to violate the Hotel Act which requires a license when renting something like 4 or 5 units or more. And if the townhouse doesn't have an HOA to restrict short term leases, is there any reason such a rental would be considered illegal?

You've just described my situation.The difference being they built a 5br Pool Villa next to us.These are called "small hotels" and are only allowed to Thai citizens.The lady who looks after the moo ban probably has it in her name and the real owners are Chinese.There are about 5-6 examples in the immediate area now. At a glance it looks legal. Our complaints about loud pool parties at 3 am to city hall(Pattaya) result in crickets.We've upgraded out adjoining wall/windows to the tune of 60k. It helps but thats all.

I am now reduced to childish revenge like a prolonged air horn blast at 0700 for their amusement.

FYI It's listed on Booking.com.I wonder if contacting them will bear any fruit?