Must Read A SIMPLE GUIDE TO PERSONAL INCOME TAX IN THAILAND

[Guavaman]

1 hour ago, chickenslegs said:

My question to the experts is: If I pay for goods and services directly from my UK bank/credit union/building society (for school fees, household goods, wine, groceries, etc) will that be classed as assessable income?

 

For example, I recently paid about 6000THB online for half a case of wine. The payment was made using Wise transfer from my UK account. Would this be classed as assessable income ?

According to the Thai Tax Code:

Section 39 In this Chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:

Assessable income means income that is taxable under this Chapter. Such income also includes a property or any other benefit received which may be computed into a monetary value.

 

Since the Thai Tax Code regarding foreign source income is based upon remittance into Thailand, such remittances of assessable income are subject to personal income tax in Thailand.

 

 

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, chickenslegs said:

I am a UK pensioner living with a Thai wife and our 12-year-old daughter in Thailand.

 

During 2023 I have been remitting 90 - 110kTHB each month into Thailand from my private pension. In addition I have been remitting 28kTHB each month into Thailand from my UK State pension, which I deposit into a fund for my daughter's education.

 

UK income tax has been deducted from all my UK income.

 

This year (2024) I will remit only the minimum amount to satisfy my extension of stay (65,000 THB). I will continue to invest the 28k into my daughter's education fund, but I will keep it in a UK savings account. 

 

My question to the experts is: If I pay for goods and services directly from my UK bank/credit union/building society (for school fees, household goods, wine, groceries, etc) will that be classed as assessable income?

 

For example, I recently paid about 6000THB online for half a case of wine. The payment was made using Wise transfer from my UK account. Would this be classed as assessable income ?

Yes. When you pay for something in Thailand using a foreign card, payment has been made and funds have been transferred into Thailand to pay for goods here.

[MangoKorat]

8 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The UK taxes the sale of immovable property with a Capital Gains tax for non-residents. Anyone who lives overseas and rents out their UK property and then later sells it, must file Capital Gains return.

The UK DOES NOT impose Capital Gains Tax on the sale of your home whilst you live in the country provided its your sole residence.  I said 'sold their house in their home countries, moved to Thailand and bought a home' - note SOLD.  That implies that someone SOLD their home before they moved to Thailand - they would most likely need that money to but their Thai home.

 

I am not 100% sure on this but I also think that if you sell your HOME - i.e. a house that has been your principal residence, after you leave the country, there will still be no Capital Gains Tax on it. I don't know if the 'principal residence' status of a home is lost if its rented out whilst you live abroad but in any case, I mentioned nothing about renting.  I repeat, my post was in connection with those who sell up then move.

Edited January 8 by MangoKorat

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, Guavaman said:

Please provide your sources of authority on stating that: 

1)  Social security benefit payments are NOT assessable income according to Thai RD

2) No need to file a tax return, if no tax payable.

 

Then we can jointly consider the implications for us taxpayers. 

 

This could be good news for many of us.

I was surprised to see you post this. I think it was @JimGant who posted the precise wording from teh DTA that set this out. I will try to see if I can find it amongst the 200+ pages, or perhaps JG can do so?

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, MangoKorat said:

The UK DOES NOT impose Capital Gains Tax on the sale of your home whilst you live in the country provided its your sole residence.  I said 'sold their house in their home countries, moved to Thailand and bought a home' - note SOLD.  That implies that someone SOLD their home before they moved to Thailand - they would most likely need that money to but their Thai home.

 

I am not 100% sure on this but I also think that if you sell your HOME - i.e. a house that has been your principal residence, after you leave the country, there will still be no Capital Gains Tax on it.

If I sell my UK flat then CG is required and I lived in it for a few years at one time, it was my sole residence globally (in my name).

[ChasingTheSun]

So the GREAT NEWS is now confirmed that the monetary value of all assets(stocks, bonds, cash, homes etc) held as of December 31 2023 overseas will NOT be taxed if ever remitted to Thailand at a later date? 
 

Additionally, any new cap gains, income, dividends received overseas AFTER December 31 2023 are not taxable in Thailand unless they are remitted to thailand?

Edited January 8 by ChasingTheSun

[Guavaman]

It appears that there is no reference in the Thai Tax Code that states that any type of income is non-assessable. If anyone can find such a reference, please inform us.

[Guavaman]

3 minutes ago, ChasingTheSun said:

So the GREAT NEWS is now xonfirmed that the monetary value of all assets(stocks, bonds, cash, homes etc) held as of December 31 2023 overseas will NOT be taxed if ever remitted to Thailand at a later date? 

Yes, according to Revenue Department Order 162, those assets are exempt from Thai income tax when remitted.  The challenge is in providing evidence that is acceptable to "Somchai the local tax assessor" to prove that these assets were in your possession prior to 1 January 2024.

[ChasingTheSun]

3 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

Yes, according to Revenue Department Order 162, those assets are exempt from Thai income tax when remitted.  The challenge is in providing evidence that is acceptable to "Somchai the local tax assessor" to prove that these assets were in your possession prior to 1 January 2024.

I guess bank or brokerage statements should suffice if called upon?

[MangoKorat]

14 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

If I sell my UK flat then CG is required and I lived in it for a few years at one time, it was my sole residence globally (in my name).

I can categorically tell you that if you nominated your flat as your principal residence in the UK, there is no CGT chargeable. There is also no duration for which you have had to live in a property - just that it is your principal residence.  The IR have tried to charge 'income tax' on some people who only owned a house for a short period of time, the sale of which has provided a decent uplift. However, that is another matter and its extremely difficult for the IR to prove your intention when you bought a property - - usually several moves would be needed to establish that.

 

You have added in the term 'globally' - I know nothing about that.  What I am referring to is a normal UK resident (which most of us are), selling their home and moving to Thailand. If its their home and if they own other property, they have nominated it as their principle residence - there is no CGT payable if the transaction takes place before you can be considered as resident in another country. To avoid potential problems, that would be better whilst you are actually resident in the UK.

 

I would note though, that my accountant told me of several cases where sales had taken place soon after someone had left the UK - at which time they sucessfully claimed that they were simply on holiday and had not actually ceased their UK residence.

 

I am a landlord and own several properties, I will be selling some of these soon when I move to Thailand. You can therefore be sure that I have checked out my position with my accountant.

 

If there is a problem with your flat, I am pretty sure that a short 'move back' to the UK would sort that problem.

Edited January 8 by MangoKorat

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, Guavaman said:

 

We -- the inhabitants of this forum/thread -- have still not understood the most fundamental term/meaning upon which the entire Thai income taxation system is based: Assessable Income.

 

Section 39 In this Chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:

Assessable income means income that is taxable under this Chapter. Such income also includes a property or any other benefit received which may be computed into a monetary value.

 

"Assessable" income that is taxable may be computed into a monetary value.

 

* The unstated implication is that income that may NOT be computed into a monetary value is NOT assessable. The Thai Tax Code does not address the concept of non-assessable income.

 

How the RD deals with US Social Security under the DTA as policy implemented at local levels remains to be seen. 

 

As said previously, the DTA wording that covers SSc has been posted, I thought this was made perfectly clear to everyone satisfaction previously. If it has not, we quickly need to go back through that loop and once again, @JimGant can clarify matters.

 

The second part of what you wrote is even more disturbing, "How the RD deals with US Social Security under the DTA as policy implemented at local levels remains to be seen". If the DTA is perfectly clear on one particular aspect, such as SSc, it can only be handled in one way at the local RD level. If you think there will be variable treatment based on location or other factors, trying to set out the rules such as are contained in the document, is futile.

 

Lastly, the "simple guide" posted at the beginning of the thread defines assessable income in the same way as you have in your post. That is the Revenue Department definition of the term. Readers and posters MUST get on board with that definition rather than using their own - Assessable Income means income that is taxable, i.e applied to the tax tables to determine the amount of tax due, which may be from 0% to 35%. (note: the zero rated band of tax from 0 baht to 150,000 baht is not a deduction or anything similar, it is a  rate of tax for the first 150k).

[Guavaman]

12 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I was surprised to see you post this. I think it was @JimGant who posted the precise wording from teh DTA that set this out. I will try to see if I can find it amongst the 200+ pages, or perhaps JG can do so?

NOTE: I did not mean to imply that US Social Security benefit payments are taxable by the RD. Again, the issue is about assessable income. We understand that US Social Security benefit payments should be EXEMPT from taxation by the RD, even though that income is ASSESSABLE, since it "may be computed into a monetary value".

.

Section 39 In this Chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:

Assessable income means income that is taxable under this Chapter. Such income also includes a property or any other benefit received which may be computed into a monetary value.

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I can categorically tell you that if you nominated your flat as your principal residence in the UK, there is no CGT chargeable. There is also no duration for which you have has to live in a property - just that it is your principal residence.  The IR have tried to charge 'income tax' on some people who only owned a house for a short period of time, the sale of which has provided a decent uplift. However, that is another matter and its extremely difficult for the IR to prove your intention when you bought a property - - usually several moves would be needed to establisg that.

 

You have added in the term 'globally' - I know nothing about that.  What I am referring to is a normal UK resident (which most of us are), selling their home and moving to Thailand. If its their home and if they own other property, they have nominated it as their principle residence - there is no CGT payable if the transaction takes place before you can be considered as resident in another country. To avoid potential problems, that would be better whilst you are actually resident in the UK.

 

I would note though, that my accountant told me of several cases where sales had taken place soon after someone had left the UK - at which time they sucessfully claimed that they were simply on holiday and had not actually ceased their UK residence.

 

I am a landlord and own several properties, I will be selling some of these soon when I move to Thailand. You can therefore be sure that I have checked out my position with my accountant.

My UK accountant tells me differently. I was resident in Thailand when I bought the property. I rented it out for a couple of years before moving back to the UK on a part time basis, thereafter I returned to live in Thailand once again, full time. At no point in any of that, was I ever UK resident for tax purposes hence CG is due in my case. I accept that others will have different profiles for house ownership and that mine might be out of the norm.

[Guavaman]

4 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Assessable Income means income that is taxable, i.e applied to the tax tables to determine the amount of tax due, which may be from 0% to 35%.

Correction:

According to the RD instructions for computation of personal income tax:

 

Taxable income = Assessable income minus exemptions, deductions, allowances.

[Mike Lister]

9 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

Correction:

According to the RD instructions for computation of personal income tax:

 

Taxable income = Assessable income minus exemptions, deductions, allowances.

Yes, I agree, my wording was incomplete.....I'll lift that form of words and place them in the document definition.

Edited January 8 by Mike Lister

[Mike Lister]

33 minutes ago, ChasingTheSun said:

So the GREAT NEWS is now confirmed that the monetary value of all assets(stocks, bonds, cash, homes etc) held as of December 31 2023 overseas will NOT be taxed if ever remitted to Thailand at a later date? 
 

Additionally, any new cap gains, income, dividends received overseas AFTER December 31 2023 are not taxable in Thailand unless they are remitted to thailand?

Yes

[Mike Lister]

3 hours ago, Phulublub said:

And be given a Thai ID card without any hassle?

No, you are not a Thai citizen.

[Guavaman]

Good Mike - As we know, most Thais are not into hair-splitting on conceptual issues, but that is the domain of the tax lawyers and accountants who are the priests of the tax world.

[Mike Lister]

Yesterday was a very busy day which brought more issues to the surface and identified things that were known but not made clear in the document so changes have now been made. This is the way it's going to be for a while I'm afraid, it can't be helped. Updated Version 5 Rev B is below with changes and additions in bold type..

 

A SIMPLE GUIDE TO PERSONAL INCOME TAX IN THAILAND

9 January, 2024

Version 5, Rev B

 

1. This guide has been compiled in an attempt to provide readers with the simplest possible over view of Personal Income Tax (PIT) in Thailand. The scope of this document is limited to PIT.

 

2. You may have heard that new tax laws came into effect on 1 January this year, in fact, that is not true! The old tax rules still exist and remain valid, albeit just one minor change to them was made in November last year. Previously, anyone who earned money overseas and remitted it to Thailand in a different tax year, received that money free of Thai tax. That loop hole in the Revenue Department (RD) tax code has been extensively exploited by wealthy Thai’s and is now closed, hence, any money earned overseas and remitted to Thailand in any year, is now liable to Thai tax. The purpose of the new rule is to reduce tax avoidance. Unfortunately, it now means that overseas funds transfers by foreigners living in Thailand, also have an increased risk of being taxed.

 

3. This guide is an overview of the core parts of the PIT system. It is not designed to be exhaustive and it doesn’t cover all aspects of PIT, nor is it intended to  override anything produced by the Thai Revenue or specialist tax companies such as Sherrings or Mazzars. This guide also does not address all types of income or the rules relevant to people from every country. What this guide will provide is a starting point for readers to manage their own tax affairs and it will also provide most of the answers for those with simple tax affairs, especially the average pensioner.

 

4. There are also certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

5. Terminology: this document uses the word “assessable” often. Assessable in the context of this document means income that is liable to tax and must be included on a Thai tax return. Not all income is assessable, some is excluded from tax assessment by its very nature or because of the terms of a specific tax agreement. Taxable income = Assessable income minus exemptions, deductions, allowances.

 

6. Dual Tax Agreement/Double Tax Agreement (DTA): is an agreement between two countries that sets out which of the two countries has the right to tax specific types of income and all the associated rules. It’s purpose, in part, is to ensure that the same funds are not taxed twice and provides a means by which tax that is paid twice, can be recovered, how and from where. Note: If the taxpayer income is sourced in one country but the tax  payer is resident in a second country, use of a DTA can result in increased tax being paid, if the second country has a higher rate of tax on the type of income in question, than the other.

 

7. This document is being drafted in January 2024. Tax returns are due between now and 31 March 2024 which cover the period, 1 January 2023 and 31 December 2023. The tax changes affecting foreigners in Thailand came into effect 1 January 2024 which means this years income activity is not reportable until 181 days from the start of the year, for year round residents it will be due 1 January next year, 2025.

 

8. If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, regardless of the type of visa you have. It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand and where you are at midnight on each day.

 

9. Because you are Tax Resident, YOU must review your income each year to determine if it is regarded as assessable to tax in Thailand, nobody else will do this for you. If your income does not exceed 120,000 baht per year, you do not need to file a tax return (60,000 baht if your only income is bank interest paid to you by a bank in Thailand). If your income is over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a Thai tax return between 1 January and 31 March.

 

10. Your income in Thailand is defined as any money paid to you inside Thailand, as well as, any money you receive from overseas, both types are potentially assessable income for Tax Residents. There are many types of income that can be classed as assessable, the Thai RD lists some of them and is linked below, however, the list is not exhaustive:

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html#:~:text=Section%2040%20of%20Thailand's%20Revenue,Pensions%3B%20and

 

11. There are also classes or types of income that the RD does not regard as assessable and these are also linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

 

12. Income that is derived from  within Thailand is fairly clear, if you work and have a job and you are a Tax Resident, your income is assessable for tax.  Interest that is paid to you on Thai bank accounts is regarded as income, as is income from investments such as stocks and bonds within Thailand.  You should note that if you are generating income by working while staying in Thailand, it is (and has always been) irrelevant where that money is paid and whether you bring the money into the country or keep it offshore. That money arises in Thailand hence it is taxable here.

 

13. It is not possible to give the same blanket rule to everyone to determine whether income is assessable or not because of the variable factors involved. Overseas income has to pass several tests to determine if it is assessable to Thai tax or not. It is still early days and all the rules are not yet clear. It has been said that tax residents who import funds from countries that have a DTA with Thailand, will not be effected. Exactly how that will work leaves many questions unanswered hence this document attempts to look at only the most popular types of income based on what is known at present. This document does not speculate as to what may happen in the future, other than in the segment at the end concerning likely future Immigration rules.

 

14. First and foremost, only income that is remitted to Thailand is assessable in Thailand, funds that remain outside Thailand are not. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings  were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024.  

 

15. Another common type of income is pensions, which can be complicated, depending on the type of pension and the country that it comes from. The country of origin is important because there are over 60 different types of Dual Tax Agreements, sometimes called Double Taxation Agreements (DTA’s), between Thailand and those 60+ countries and each one is different. As a general rule, most private or company pensions from most countries appear to be assessable here but YOU will need to confirm that yours is or is not. If that is true, private and company pension income IS assessable income in Thailand.

 

16. US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income. UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service pensions are not!

 

17. The proceeds from the sale of a capital item such as overseas property, where funds are remitted to Thailand, is one popular source of funds, the sale of some investment products such as stocks, shares and bonds is another. Those proceeds typically comprise two parts, capital and profit. If the capital was acquired before 1 January 2024, it is free of Thai tax. One way to separate capital and profit may be to have an official valuation or statement that is dated 1 January 2024 since anything earned before that date, is not assessable. Also, if the profit has been the subject of a Capital Gains return in the home country, that also may be free of Thai tax but this cannot be guaranteed at this time, until things are made more clear and are once again subject to the terms of any DTA. YOU will need to review the DTA between Thailand and your home  country to fully understand what particular clauses affect you.

 

18. It appears as though most property rental income that is remitted to Thailand is considered to be assessable income and is taxable here, unless of course it has been taxed in the home country and/or the DTA prohibits its taxation (which seems unlikely).

 

19. YOU are responsible for determining if your assessable income in Thailand exceeds the threshold and means you must file a tax return. That assessable income might comprise, pension payments, investment income, rental income or any of the other types of income listed in the link above. If you have assessable income of over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a tax return (60,000 baht if your sole source of assessable income is bank interest paid in Thailand).

 

20. Before you can file a tax return in Thailand, you need to acquire a Tax Identification Number or TIN from the RD offices in your area. You will need your passport, a valid and current visa or extension and in many areas, a Certificate of Residency from the Immigration Department.

 

21. Completing a tax return is a simple affair for most people, if you have difficulty, the Revenue Department staff are extremely helpful. Tax returns must be filed between 1 January and 30 March each year, if you file later than that, penalties will apply.

 

22. Thai tax is layered in bands and is payable based on the amount of assessable income that  falls within each band and are shown and linked below:

 

Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

750,000 – 1,000,000 20%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

23. The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full  time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following:

 

a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000

b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000

c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000

d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000

e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax

 

24. Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found here

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html  or from Sherrings below.

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

25. The Thai Revenue  tax filing system is online but is only available in Thai language at present. The tax forms are however available in English and they can be downloaded from the link below. CAUTION, the forms are updated every year and the 2023/24 forms for full year PIT are NOT yet available:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

 

26. A simple sample completed tax form for a person aged over 65 years is shown below as a guide.

27. https://aseannow.com/topic/1312534-taxation-of-ex-pats-pensions-etc/?do=findComment&comment=18532562

 

28. Tax filing in Thailand is based on the honour system, it relies on you declaring all the right information every year and there are severe penalties for evading Thai tax. It would be foolish and a gross under estimation of RD capabilities to think  that doing nothing and keeping a low profile means you should ignore Thai taxation. Very few sane people in the US and UK ignore the tax authorities who tend to have a long reach. It cannot be ruled out that at some point, a link may be established between tax filings and visa extensions. A law already exists that requires foreigners to apply for Tax Clearance Certificates before being allowed to depart the country but it is not being enforced currently. These things are possible because similar things have been adopted in several countries in the past, including the US.

 

29. The RD tax return requires taxpayers to report assessable income, the tax rules even list some types of income that are not assessable to help in this. In addition, some types of income, from some locations, for some nationalities, are also known to be not assessable.

 

30. If a taxpayer is certain that some of their income is not assessable, they may not want to declare it on their Thai tax return.  Alternatively they may wish to ask the RD or employ specialist tax advisor's. It should go without saying that some taxpayers may try to suggest that some of their income is not assessable when really they don’t know for sure, or, they know that it is and say it that it isn’t, a sort of, chancing your arm and hoping you wont get found out. In that situation, the RD will not look favorably on such people and penalties are likely.

 

31. There are several sources of detailed tax information and these web sites are linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

*** END ***

 

[MangoKorat]

53 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

My UK accountant tells me differently. I was resident in Thailand when I bought the property. I rented it out for a couple of years before moving back to the UK on a part time basis, thereafter I returned to live in Thailand once again, full time. At no point in any of that, was I ever UK resident for tax purposes hence CG is due in my case. I accept that others will have different profiles for house ownership and that mine might be out of the norm.

You are introducing new facets again - the key there being that you bought the property whilst you were not a UK resident. As you accept, the case with most members here who have sold up and moved abroad will be different and I'd suggest that the vast majority will have both bought and sold their sole residence whilst they lived in their passport country. In which case, what I have stated is correct and there is no CGT payable (UK).

 

Just an an addendum and a point which you have made that is also clearly stated in the 'Simple Guide' - rental income from a house 'back home' does form part of the assessable income in Thailand.  Quite how that works between the UK and Thailand, I'm unsure given the UK's rules on living abroad and renting out property. One of which (from memory) is that 10% or is it 20% tax must be witheld at source by either the agent or the tenant.  Not 100% on that as I have never lived abroad and rented any of my houses out.  I know of 'private' owners that have done and are doing that now and don't include it on their tax return but that's up to them. They may have a problem hiding it from both the UK IR and the Thai RD if the rent is coming into their Thai bank account.

Edited January 8 by MangoKorat

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, MangoKorat said:

You are introducing new facets again - the key there being that you bought the property whilst you were not a UK resident. As you accept, the case with most members here who have sold up and moved abroad will be different and I'd suggest that the vast majority will have both bought and sold their sole residence whilst they lived in their passport country. In which case, what I have stated is correct and there is no CGT payable.

 

Just an an addendum and a point which you have made that is also clearly stated in the 'Simple Guide' - rental income from a house 'back home' does form part of the assessable income in Thailand.  Quite how that works between the UK and Thailand, I'm unsure given the UK's rules on living abroad and renting out property. One of which (from memory) is that 10% or is it 20% tax must be witheld at source by either the agent or the tenant.  Not 100% on that as I have never lived abroad and rented any of my houses out.  I know of 'private' owners that have done and are doing that now and don't include it on their tax return but that's up to them. They may have a problem hiding it from both the UK IR and the Thai RD if the rent is coming into their Thai bank account.

My UK agent used to withhold tax at source and hand it over to HMRC and I would claw it back via a tax return. I then joined an HMRC scheme for non-resident landlords which allowed me to escape that taxation at source, now I receive the full amount every month which is paid into my UK bank. I don't need that cash in Thailand so it accumulates in the UK, I have a bank statement showing the balance as of 1 January 2024 so I can demonstrate what is and what is not taxable thus far. I may leave the additional money in the UK for use on holidays or similar, unsure.

[Presnock]

11 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

$40k per tax year in SSc income from the US would be zero tax in Thailand because all excluded by DTA - it's all excluded income (or so the experts on the US DTA have posted).

article 20 on US SS of DTA

[Presnock]

10 hours ago, Sheryl said:

It is without question, very clearly, taxable only in the US. (And needs no expertise to see that, just read sections 20 and 21 of the DTA).

 

If the only income coming into Thailand  is from SS, there is 0 assessable income...and therefore

no need to file a tax return or pay tax in Thailand.

 

(You may, of course, need to pay tax on it in the US, depending on overall income).

 

unless I am mistaken, if one receives US pension and/or SS the govt paying office deducts the tax prior to every check sent out or transferred to a bank account.

[Presnock]

7 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Calm down. I wrote in the document that in order to file a tax return you will need a TIN Tax ID Number. In order to get a TIN you will need the things you mentioned. So no, the linkage between Immigration and the Revenue (the show) has not started and probably wont for some time, if ever.

Mike, I noted your previous note of going to the Revenue Department to settle up your zero balance tax form and how quick and easy it was, but if all the ex-pats that remain went to the RD to do their tax reports whether nil or not, it doesn't seem to me that it will ever be quick and easy again.  Just wondering.  Have a good day, exercise your fingers regularly or RA might settle in with all the typing.

[EVENKEEL]

9 hours ago, sirineou said:

I understand that,

but what if such savings are a result of unspend pensions?

I have been fortunate enough  to have pension income above ny need..My pensions are deposited in my US bank account and consequently result in savings , ( I spend less than I receive)

In the past , occasionally I would transfer to Thailand some of these savings for vehicles and other property purchases. Would these pension savings now become taxable under the remitable savings provision of this old new law? And if so would it be a violation of the bilateral tax agreement? 

And, so you have these monies from pension in a US bank and send them to Thai Bank, How do you prove they're pension money?

 

There's just so many what if questions I don't see how any of this can be done here.

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I was surprised to see you post this. I think it was @JimGant who posted the precise wording from teh DTA that set this out. I will try to see if I can find it amongst the 200+ pages, or perhaps JG can do so?

as for 1, article 20 about ss exempt  as for 2, nothing that I saw in the DTA said anything  about requirement of resident government for you to file a tax return in Thailand.  That is covered by the Thai tax laws so you have to read and understand those and decide whether to get a Tax Number and file a "zero balance" tax return each year.

[Mike Lister]

21 minutes ago, Presnock said:

unless I am mistaken, if one receives US pension and/or SS the govt paying office deducts the tax prior to every check sent out or transferred to a bank account.

You are mistaken. I receive US SSc in Thailand and no tax is deducted.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

And, so you have these monies from pension in a US bank and send them to Thai Bank, How do you prove they're pension money?

 

There's just so many what if questions I don't see how any of this can be done here.

There lays the rub. Dont think I have not thought of that. 

I guess the only way would be to do a forensic accounting and determine that the amount transferred was less than the  amount deposited and a balance remained , therefore since this saving transfer is equal to or less than that balance , it is attributed to pensions and should not be taxed.

Yea Yea, I know  Good luck. 

 

[Presnock]

5 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You are mistaken. I receive US SSc in Thailand and no tax is deducted.

Mike 

 

5 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You are mistaken. I receive US SSc in Thailand and no tax is deducted.

 

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You are mistaken. I receive US SSc in Thailand and no tax is deducted.

 

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You are mistaken. I receive US SSc in Thailand and no tax is deducted.

 

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You are mistaken. I receive US SSc in Thailand and no tax is deducted.

sorry, I was mistaken as IRS does not tax SS below 25K single or 32K married unless above those amounts a W4 is filed with the IRS to withhold certain percentages of the SS to be paid.  I always though the IRS didn't let anyone get away...you know "...death and taxes"

[bluemoon58]

23 hours ago, CharlieH said:

UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service pensions are not!

Mike, I receive a UK Armed Forces Pension. I presume this would be classed as a UK Government Pension? Am I correct?