Cigna Global health insurance renewal – Now I’m getting worried .

[tomgreen]

 

I’m now 74 years old and have had a Cigna Global health insurance police for many years and Ive never made a claim .

 

The Cigna Global insurance policy renewal notice has just arrived and its now 15,490 Baht per month , the policy details are ……...

 

1. Annual benefit limit: £325,000.00 ( approx. 14,166,750.00 THB )
2. World Wide Excluding USA .
3. Inpatient cover only
4. £1,000.00 deductible I have to pay ( approx.  43,590.00 THB )
5. No out of pocket or cost share .

 

With the new monthly Cigna cost of 15,490 Baht per month , I’m now finding it a struggle to meet the new monthly cost. I do have some savings in a Thai bank which are primarily used for my 12 month retired visa extension . I do receive a British old age pension , but since I have been permanently living in Thailand for around 20 years , that British pension was frozen back then and has never been increased .

 

Ive contacted a Cigna representative to see if theres an option where I could downgrade my current Cigna health insurance policy , to a less expensive alternative . The Cigna representative emailed me back and just said that there was no other Cigna private health policy types that can be offered .I was very disappointed the Cigna could not offer me an alternative.

 

I’m trying to find an option or route to try and reduce the monthly private health insurance payments , but at 74 years old I think I’m going to be out of luck.  

 

It has crossed my mind about cancelling my current Cigna health insurance altogether and in theory if I do need serious medical attention , then hope that a Thai public hospital may be an option , one other thought has been that if I do need serious medical attention , some how return back to England and seek medical help there , but since I have no friends or address in England or have been back there for 20 years , so I don’t know what sort of reception would await me , health treatment wise. 

 

Another thought Ive had would be some how temporally return back to England and some how try to convince the government pension department that I’m now living back there and then hopefully get my old age pension amount increased ( which would be a good increase ) and then return back to Thailand and my family .

 

Another option that may decrease the new Cigna monthly cost would be to increase the deductible I amount I have to pay which is currently approx.  43,590.00 THB , to a much larger amount .

 

I can just about manage to pay for most non serious day patient medical issues , its the possible more serious medical problems that a 74 year old man like myself could expect in the future .

 

Ive also racked my brain for ways to try and earn extra money to help in some way , but drawn a blank.  My Thai wife is unable to work due to severe arthritis. 

 

Sorry for rambling on , but this whole health insurance,  getting old curse is stressing me out. 

 

Any thoughts, suggestions or recommendations are very welcome. 

 

 

..

[Swiss1960]

Since Cigna sold the Thail business to Chubb - which then cacelled all policies by expiration date - Cigna has become... (naming and shaming not allowed), so I recommend everybody who can to stear away from them.

 

@tomgreen: Check reducing the coverage to Thailand / Asia only, that should reduce the premium. If you need to travel, get yourself a cheap travel insurance

[scubascuba3]

Difficult situation that many people will find themselves in when premiums become unaffordable, remember the premiums will only get higher as you get older.

 

Check out the govt hospitals in your area and pick ones you can use which are much cheaper than private. At 74 a new insurer won't want to take you on, if they do premiums will be high and plenty of exclusions

[AhFarangJa]

I gave up looking for insurance cover years ago. At my age, and with some medical pre- existing conditions the premiums were ridiculous. Also, after some investigating I discovered they could get out of paying for most medical scenarios by quoting "pre-existing condition". I decided to self insure, and found a good Hospital in Surin that treats a lot of Cambodians, so is reasonably priced, and with good service. 

Good luck on finding a solution.

[tomgreen]

7 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

Since Cigna sold the Thail business to Chubb - which then cacelled all policies by expiration date - Cigna has become... (naming and shaming not allowed), so I recommend everybody who can to stear away from them.

 

@tomgreen: Check reducing the coverage to Thailand / Asia only, that should reduce the premium. If you need to travel, get yourself a cheap travel insurance

Thanks for the comment , when I contacted the Cigna representative I did ask about reducing my insurance coverage area from world wide ( not USA ) to only Asia, the Cigna representative said that they had no expat health insurance that only covers the Asia area, then he commented that I was currently using the only Cigna expat health insurance policy that was available to me , which was hard to believe. 

 

.

[Mike Lister]

I cancelled my CIGNA policy and now self insure. CIGNA Dubai does have a step up policy that allows existing insured to change policies using the same underwriting they have today. One such policy will cover you in Thailand and 6 months in your home country, only and the cost is much less than you quote...I am the same age as you. My contact at Cigna Dubai is Scott.Foubister AT cigna.com

[tomgreen]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Difficult situation that many people will find themselves in when premiums become unaffordable, remember the premiums will only get higher as you get older.

 

Check out the govt hospitals in your area and pick ones you can use which are much cheaper than private. At 74 a new insurer won't want to take you on, if they do premiums will be high and plenty of exclusions

Thanks for your comment. I know that even if I could now switch to another private health insurance provider other than Cigna , even though I have no previous health issues , the new health insurance providers monthly premium cost would high . I was hoping that my current private health insurance provider Cigna , would be able to offer me an alternative ( and cheaper ) option. But sadly the answer from Cigna was no.

 

.

[tomgreen]

3 hours ago, AhFarangJa said:

I gave up looking for insurance cover years ago. At my age, and with some medical pre- existing conditions the premiums were ridiculous. Also, after some investigating I discovered they could get out of paying for most medical scenarios by quoting "pre-existing condition". I decided to self insure, and found a good Hospital in Surin that treats a lot of Cambodians, so is reasonably priced, and with good service. 

Good luck on finding a solution.

Hi and thanks for your comment. The new Cigna monthly premium amount works out to be approx. 185,000.00 Thai Baht a year  , knowing full well that all my future Cigna health insurance monthly premiums will be substantially increasing , the future looks very depressing .

 

.

[tomgreen]

17 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I cancelled my CIGNA policy and now self insure. CIGNA Dubai does have a step up policy that allows existing insured to change policies using the same underwriting they have today. One such policy will cover you in Thailand and 6 months in your home country, only and the cost is much less than you quote...I am the same age as you. My contact at Cigna Dubai is Scott.Foubister AT cigna.com

Hi and thanks for the information , its worth me trying the Cigna Dubai option and see what they can offer .

 

.

[Mike Lister]

Just now, tomgreen said:

Hi and thanks for the information , its worth me trying the Cigna Dubai option and see what they can offer .

 

.

Whatever you find will be far better than anything offered by local companies here, simply because the rules are very different.

[tomgreen]

Ive just come across this web site that shows health insurance plans for Thailand. Some of the options on offer seem to be low . Any one used this health insurance finder web site ?

 

Insurance Finder web site

 

 

( https://checkdi.com/th/health/plans?gender=Male&age=74&lg=en&ipd=1&opdf=0&leadid=348157 ) 

 

Thanks

 

.

[Sheryl]

First of all, rates increase in 5 year age brackets so if you just experienced a big increase, you likely won't again for another 5 years.(A big increase I mean, there may be smaller increases for inflation).

 

It counds like you have Cigna Close Care which is already their least expensive policy. But you can certainly further decrease your premium by upping the deductible and/or adding a copay option. Go on to their website and play around with options (warning: do not put your real phone number and email address, you will inundated with calls fro sales agents). Note that the copay options all have a cap as to how much in a year you can possibly be out of pocket.

 

You can also save 10% by paying annually instead of monthly, if able to do so.

 

The problem with relying on return to the UK is that in an emergency you may not be stable enough to travel.  (And, as we saw during COVID, other unexpected things can make travel impossible for prolonged periods of time).

 

Additionally, in a non-emergency there may be issues about getting access to NHS unless you have maintained a UK address  registration with a GP there. Otherwise may have to prove an intention to permanently return to get free NHS care.

 

As for planning to just use government hospitals, even they can yield bills well over 1 million baht per hospitalization if it is something really major and/or specialized.

 

If you cannot afford a higher deductible and copay then unfortunately you also cannot afford to be uninsured. In which case might need to reconsider saying in Thailand, sorry to say.

 

I'd start by figuring out what the absolute maximum you could possibly pay out of pocket for a serious hospitalization is, them play around with deductible and copay options to see what it does to your premiums.

 

 

[Sheryl]

5 minutes ago, tomgreen said:

Ive just come across this web site that shows health insurance plans for Thailand. Some of the options on offer seem to be low . Any one used this health insurance finder web site ?

 

Insurance Finder web site

 

 

( https://checkdi.com/th/health/plans?gender=Male&age=74&lg=en&ipd=1&opdf=0&leadid=348157 ) 

 

Thanks

 

.

You do not want a Thai based insurer, very bad record for actually paying out, and few will issue a new policy at your age. The few who do, have blanket exclusions for many of the common problems associated with aging. And, they will raise your rates on an individual basis after every large claim, something international companies are nto allowed to do.

 

Also, rates at older ages exceed those of international policies.

[Srikcir]

In your search I suggest that you try to include out patient coverage given your age. Any cancer diagnosis typically associated with elderly ages will require frequent medical services and extensive medication, regardless of whether you're using private or government hospitals.

Don't give up!

[Tedly]

A guy I know (68) just bought insurance last year with a company called Thai Life. I million baht policy with a 50,000 baht deductible and the yearly premium is like 35,000 baht a year. Might be worth looking into at least.

[Flying Saucage]

20 hours ago, Sheryl said:

You do not want a Thai based insurer, very bad record for actually paying out, and few will issue a new policy at your age. The few who do, have blanket exclusions for many of the common problems associated with aging. And, they will raise your rates on an individual basis after every large claim, something international companies are nto allowed to do.

Just had a discussion (and renewal) with my insuring company Pacific Cross, and it was confirmed by them that for their current plans ('New Normal plans') there is no raise on an individual base after a large claim anymore. The reason I was told was that the Thai regulating body told them to stopp this policy

 

For their record of paying out, I don't have any experience yet. 

 

Generally I think it is the best to consult a good insurance broker to find the best insurance for you. Brokers are not more expensive than a direct approach to the insurance company as far as I understood (I am not sure), as with a broker only the commission assigned for the own sales staff will be redirected to the broker.

[Iamloki]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:08 AM, tomgreen said:

Thanks for the comment , when I contacted the Cigna representative I did ask about reducing my insurance coverage area from world wide ( not USA ) to only Asia, the Cigna representative said that they had no expat health insurance that only covers the Asia area, then he commented that I was currently using the only Cigna expat health insurance policy that was available to me , which was hard to believe. 

 

.

This website lists the Cigna Close Care Plan... Country of residence + Country of nationality...

https://www.cignaglobal.com/where-we-cover/thailand?&utm_campaign=TH+-+EN+-+B:+Cigna+-+Countries+%5BExact%5D_ipro_thailand_2020&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8-LC6uPRgwMVCKRmAh1j-wMAEAAYASAAEgL_ivD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

It it were me, and if possible... I would walk into a Cigna office and talk face to face with an agent... or, go to an independent broker and see what Cigna offers...

[Presnock]

On 1/9/2024 at 12:51 AM, tomgreen said:

 

I’m now 74 years old and have had a Cigna Global health insurance police for many years and Ive never made a claim .

 

The Cigna Global insurance policy renewal notice has just arrived and its now 15,490 Baht per month , the policy details are ……...

 

1. Annual benefit limit: £325,000.00 ( approx. 14,166,750.00 THB )
2. World Wide Excluding USA .
3. Inpatient cover only
4. £1,000.00 deductible I have to pay ( approx.  43,590.00 THB )
5. No out of pocket or cost share .

 

With the new monthly Cigna cost of 15,490 Baht per month , I’m now finding it a struggle to meet the new monthly cost. I do have some savings in a Thai bank which are primarily used for my 12 month retired visa extension . I do receive a British old age pension , but since I have been permanently living in Thailand for around 20 years , that British pension was frozen back then and has never been increased .

 

Ive contacted a Cigna representative to see if theres an option where I could downgrade my current Cigna health insurance policy , to a less expensive alternative . The Cigna representative emailed me back and just said that there was no other Cigna private health policy types that can be offered .I was very disappointed the Cigna could not offer me an alternative.

 

I’m trying to find an option or route to try and reduce the monthly private health insurance payments , but at 74 years old I think I’m going to be out of luck.  

 

It has crossed my mind about cancelling my current Cigna health insurance altogether and in theory if I do need serious medical attention , then hope that a Thai public hospital may be an option , one other thought has been that if I do need serious medical attention , some how return back to England and seek medical help there , but since I have no friends or address in England or have been back there for 20 years , so I don’t know what sort of reception would await me , health treatment wise. 

 

Another thought Ive had would be some how temporally return back to England and some how try to convince the government pension department that I’m now living back there and then hopefully get my old age pension amount increased ( which would be a good increase ) and then return back to Thailand and my family .

 

Another option that may decrease the new Cigna monthly cost would be to increase the deductible I amount I have to pay which is currently approx.  43,590.00 THB , to a much larger amount .

 

I can just about manage to pay for most non serious day patient medical issues , its the possible more serious medical problems that a 74 year old man like myself could expect in the future .

 

Ive also racked my brain for ways to try and earn extra money to help in some way , but drawn a blank.  My Thai wife is unable to work due to severe arthritis. 

 

Sorry for rambling on , but this whole health insurance,  getting old curse is stressing me out. 

 

Any thoughts, suggestions or recommendations are very welcome. 

 

 

..

other international health plans are also increasing more and more each year as hospitals' charges continue zooming.  Mine too just increased another 7+ percent and just continues going up with possible lower and lower max payments.  But at 77 I sure can't just forget it.

[topt]

45 minutes ago, Iamloki said:

It it were me, and if possible... I would walk into a Cigna office and talk face to face with an agent... or, go to an independent broker and see what Cigna offers..

It sounds like he has he has a policy from Cigna International so difficult to get local advice.

As swiss1960 said Cigna Thailand is now owned by Chubb and anyway follows Thai rather than International practices.

[Huayyai]

The Cigna Close Care plan was for us an excellent policy.

Thailand and home country, exactly what we needed and much much cheaper than their Cigna Global Health Insurance.

[prakhonchai nick]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:05 AM, AhFarangJa said:

I gave up looking for insurance cover years ago. At my age, and with some medical pre- existing conditions the premiums were ridiculous. Also, after some investigating I discovered they could get out of paying for most medical scenarios by quoting "pre-existing condition". I decided to self insure, and found a good Hospital in Surin that treats a lot of Cambodians, so is reasonably priced, and with good service. 

Good luck on finding a solution.

I have never found the Surin hospital to which you refer as being reasonably priced, and not specially efficient.

They wanted a huge sum to remove a small skin cancer lump by my nose, and when I saw a Doctor re lower back pain, and told him there problems associated with most pain killers and the various heart meds I was taking, he eventually came up with a tablet he said was safe.  Back home my computer warned me not to touch it as it could be fatal!

 

I fortunately have insurance (amazingly capped at the same price it was when I took it out decades ago except for inflationary increases). and am able to choose better hospitals when required. For heart conditions I cannot recommend Queen Sirikit Hospital Khon Kaen highly enough

 

At close on 200,000bt/year the op might as well self-insure and if required use a local government hospital, many of which are very good. All being well, at age 80 he will have more than 1 million baht in the kitty

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Flying Saucage said:

Just had a discussion (and renewal) with my insuring company Pacific Cross, and it was confirmed by them that for their current plans ('New Normal plans') there is no raise on an individual base after a large claim anymore. The reason I was told was that the Thai regulating body told them to stopp this policy

 

For their record of paying out, I don't have any experience yet. 

 

Generally I think it is the best to consult a good insurance broker to find the best insurance for you. Brokers are not more expensive than a direct approach to the insurance company as far as I understood (I am not sure), as with a broker only the commission assigned for the own sales staff will be redirected to the broker.

 

Pacific Cross is not an insurance company, they are a broker.

 

The Thai regulating body, the OIC, not only allows rates to be raised based on claims history but actually mandates that this be a clause in all insurance contracts.

 

Something wring in the info your were given.Not correct.

 

 

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, Srikcir said:

In your search I suggest that you try to include out patient coverage given your age. Any cancer diagnosis typically associated with elderly ages will require frequent medical services and extensive medication, regardless of whether you're using private or government hospitals.

Don't give up!

Most international inpatient policies also cover outpatient cancer care and often dialysis too. Also day surgeries.

 

to add on other outpatient would almost double premoum cost.

[mokwit]

23 hours ago, Sheryl said:

You do not want a Thai based insurer, very bad record for actually paying out, and few will issue a new policy at your age. The few who do, have blanket exclusions for many of the common problems associated with aging. And, they will raise your rates on an individual basis after every large claim, something international companies are nto allowed to do.

 

Also, rates at older ages exceed those of international policies.

If you require treatment for a long time and that crosses your renewal date presumably they can up the premium or drop you. If so, totally unsuitable for debilitating illness which is what you need to insure for.

[eyeman]

24 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Pacific Cross is not an insurance company, they are a broker.

 

The Thai regulating body, the OIC, not only allows rates to be raised based on claims history but actually mandates that this be a clause in all insurance contracts.

 

Something wring in the info your were given.Not correct.

 

 

Really? I thought Pacific Cross was the actual health insurance provider and has been for years? https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en

 

All my documentation was from Pacific Cross including card and so on was Pacific cross branded

 

 

Edited January 10 by eyeman

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, eyeman said:

Really? I thought Pacific Cross was the actual health insurance provider and has been for years? https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en

 

All my documentation was from Pacific Cross including card and so on was Pacific cross branded

 

 

Sorry you are right, I was thinking of Pacific Prime.

 

Pacific Cross is indeed an insurer.

 

And they do raise rates based on claims history. Possible that the Thai OIC told them not to do it to the extreme level they had been, but they are still allowed to do so (I think up to a 25% raise per year).

[Scouse123]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:08 AM, tomgreen said:

Thanks for the comment , when I contacted the Cigna representative I did ask about reducing my insurance coverage area from world wide ( not USA ) to only Asia, the Cigna representative said that they had no expat health insurance that only covers the Asia area, then he commented that I was currently using the only Cigna expat health insurance policy that was available to me , which was hard to believe. 

 

.

 

 

Email Cigna or speak to a different agent and do some more research regards Cigna and your policy online.

 

It appears the representative you are speaking to isn't trying very hard to look for alternatives to your plight.

[tomgreen]

On 1/9/2024 at 11:48 AM, Sheryl said:

First of all, rates increase in 5 year age brackets so if you just experienced a big increase, you likely won't again for another 5 years.(A big increase I mean, there may be smaller increases for inflation).

 

It counds like you have Cigna Close Care which is already their least expensive policy. But you can certainly further decrease your premium by upping the deductible and/or adding a copay option. Go on to their website and play around with options (warning: do not put your real phone number and email address, you will inundated with calls fro sales agents). Note that the copay options all have a cap as to how much in a year you can possibly be out of pocket.

 

You can also save 10% by paying annually instead of monthly, if able to do so.

 

The problem with relying on return to the UK is that in an emergency you may not be stable enough to travel.  (And, as we saw during COVID, other unexpected things can make travel impossible for prolonged periods of time).

 

Additionally, in a non-emergency there may be issues about getting access to NHS unless you have maintained a UK address  registration with a GP there. Otherwise may have to prove an intention to permanently return to get free NHS care.

 

As for planning to just use government hospitals, even they can yield bills well over 1 million baht per hospitalization if it is something really major and/or specialized.

 

If you cannot afford a higher deductible and copay then unfortunately you also cannot afford to be uninsured. In which case might need to reconsider saying in Thailand, sorry to say.

 

I'd start by figuring out what the absolute maximum you could possibly pay out of pocket for a serious hospitalization is, them play around with deductible and copay options to see what it does to your premiums.

 

 

 Hi Sheryl

 

Yes your correct my Cigna policy is based on the Cigna Close Care . Its interesting where you say the Cigna Closed Care is already their least expensive policy. As Cigna is one of the worlds leading private health insurance providers I was hoping that I would be offered another less expensive alternative option . Like you point out it seems that to continue with  Cigna there only a few viable options …... 

 

1. Increasing my deductible amount
2. Look at a copay option.
3. Pay annually .

 

It seems all the other options…..

 

1. Return to the UK to seek medical treatment.
2. Return to temporally live in the UK to increase my government pension amount.
3. Relying on Thai government hospitals. ( Could still be expensive ) 

 

Are all going to be stressful and unpredictable .

 

I'm still hoping that I can find a solution 

 

 

.

 

 

 

[tomgreen]

6 hours ago, Srikcir said:

In your search I suggest that you try to include out patient coverage given your age. Any cancer diagnosis typically associated with elderly ages will require frequent medical services and extensive medication, regardless of whether you're using private or government hospitals.

Don't give up!

Thanks for the comment , you make a good point about out patient cover and Cancer treatment . The more I read about medical treatment and being 74 years old , the more stressed out I seem to become. 

 

.

[tomgreen]

3 hours ago, Presnock said:

other international health plans are also increasing more and more each year as hospitals' charges continue zooming.  Mine too just increased another 7+ percent and just continues going up with possible lower and lower max payments.  But at 77 I sure can't just forget it.

Hi and thanks for your comment , can I ask who your health insurance policy is with.

 

.