Hamas: Oct 7 was 'necessary, normal response' to 'Israeli conspiracies'

[Social Media]

 

In a recent report published by the Hamas terror group, the organization attempted to justify the heinous acts that took place on October 7, portraying them as a "necessary step and a normal response to confront all Israeli conspiracies against the Palestinian people." This admission came in a 17-page internal review, which acknowledged "some faults happened" due to the "rapid collapse of the Israeli security and military system, and the chaos caused along the border areas with Gaza."

 

The report, intended for domestic consumption, marked the first public attempt by Hamas to provide a justification in English and Arabic for the massacres that resulted in the deaths of approximately 1,200 people, primarily civilians. The document, however, is replete with denialism regarding Hamas's atrocities against Israeli civilians, including instances of sex-based violence, mutilation, and brutal methods of execution, such as burning alive entire families.

 

Hamas contended in the report that any cases of targeting civilians were accidental and occurred during confrontations with Israeli forces. 

It is important to note that Hamas is internationally recognized as a terrorist organization and is designated as such by various countries, including the United States, the European Union, Israel, and Canada, among others.

 

23.01.24

Source

 

 

[coolcarer]

18 pages of macabre fiction then. Just read some of it, the pdf link is in the below article. Honestly there are some real beauties in there, sick conspiracies and vile false accusations to distract from their horrific actions on the 7th Oct.

 

"The Palestinian fighters committed rape against Israeli women was fully denied including suggestion by the Hamas Movement."

 

Citing a “religious and moral commitment” to leaving civilians unharmed, the document falsely claims that Hamas's Al-Qassam Brigades “only targeted the occupation soldiers and those who carried weapons against our people”, and any civilian casualties that occurred on October 7 “happened accidently and in the course of the confrontation with the occupation forces.”

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/hamas-releases-new-document-explaining-motives-for-october-7-y3qnfaal

[Foxx]

The article's source (not credited) is i24News, a Jewish news agency based in Israel's capital, Tel Aviv.  Not sure they're the most impartial people to report on this.  It would be nice to see independent (non-Jewish, non-Muslim) review and fact check of the document.

Edited January 23 by Foxx

[Greenhill]

8 hours ago, Social Media said:

 

In a recent report published by the Hamas terror group, the organization attempted to justify the heinous acts that took place on October 7, portraying them as a "necessary step and a normal response to confront all Israeli conspiracies against the Palestinian people." This admission came in a 17-page internal review, which acknowledged "some faults happened" due to the "rapid collapse of the Israeli security and military system, and the chaos caused along the border areas with Gaza."

 

The report, intended for domestic consumption, marked the first public attempt by Hamas to provide a justification in English and Arabic for the massacres that resulted in the deaths of approximately 1,200 people, primarily civilians. The document, however, is replete with denialism regarding Hamas's atrocities against Israeli civilians, including instances of sex-based violence, mutilation, and brutal methods of execution, such as burning alive entire families.

 

Hamas contended in the report that any cases of targeting civilians were accidental and occurred during confrontations with Israeli forces. 

It is important to note that Hamas is internationally recognized as a terrorist organization and is designated as such by various countries, including the United States, the European Union, Israel, and Canada, among others.

 

23.01.24

Source

 

 

Why on earth do you publish the 'findings' of a renowned terrorist group in the middle of a war???    

 

You are so naive!!    It's just pure propaganda and lies.    Their 'facts' have been debunked by so many but you continue to give them a platform to spout their evil hatred.   Do you think this adds anything to ending the fighting?

 

You are just showing your biases which only causes further division & is extremely unhelpful to anyone EXCEPT the terrorists.

[radiochaser]

3 hours ago, coolcarer said:

18 pages of macabre fiction then. Just read some of it, the pdf link is in the below article. Honestly there are some real beauties in there, sick conspiracies and vile false accusations to distract from their horrific actions on the 7th Oct.

 

"The Palestinian fighters committed rape against Israeli women was fully denied including suggestion by the Hamas Movement."

 

Citing a “religious and moral commitment” to leaving civilians unharmed, the document falsely claims that Hamas's Al-Qassam Brigades “only targeted the occupation soldiers and those who carried weapons against our people”, and any civilian casualties that occurred on October 7 “happened accidently and in the course of the confrontation with the occupation forces.”

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/hamas-releases-new-document-explaining-motives-for-october-7-y3qnfaal

If I recall correctly what I heard on the radio a few weeks ago, Israeli civilians generally do not have firearms available.   That it is (or was) difficult to legally have and carry firearms.  My impression was Israel had laws similar to those in countries that are against civilians having firearms and are only available to Police (I don't know if police there do have firearms) and military.   

I do not know the accuracy of this.  I was driving, had grandkids in the truck, and was only partially listening to what was being said.   

Having written the above, if my impression of the availability of firearms ownership and possession by Israeli civilians is correct, then the hamas brigades are flat out liars about the targeting of those who carried weapons against our people.   It would only be natural to carry weapons for use against people who are rewarded and celebrated as heroes, when they kill Israelis, i.e. against hamas!

[radiochaser]

5 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

Why on earth do you publish the 'findings' of a renowned terrorist group in the middle of a war???    

 

You are so naive!!    It's just pure propaganda and lies.    Their 'facts' have been debunked by so many but you continue to give them a platform to spout their evil hatred.   Do you think this adds anything to ending the fighting?

 

You are just showing your biases which only causes further division & is extremely unhelpful to anyone EXCEPT the terrorists.

Are you railing against Israelis or hamas?   

[Greenhill]

6 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

Are you railing against Israelis or hamas?   

I am 100% against barbaric terrorist group, Hamas.  They are clearly proud of their actions on 7th October and have publicly announced they will do the same again - if they get a chance.    

[IAMHERE]

For Hamas it may well be normal. That is what Israel is worried about, maybe.

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

Why on earth do you publish the 'findings' of a renowned terrorist group in the middle of a war???    

 

You are so naive!!    It's just pure propaganda and lies.    Their 'facts' have been debunked by so many but you continue to give them a platform to spout their evil hatred.   Do you think this adds anything to ending the fighting?

 

You are just showing your biases which only causes further division & is extremely unhelpful to anyone EXCEPT the terrorists.

Whose facts are you talking about? If your talking about Hamas then yes I agree, this article is an excellent example of why nobody should believe them. 

 

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/01/21/hamas-says-october-7-attacks-necessary-step-but-admits-to-faults_6453082_4.html

[Bkk Brian]

The link to the full Hamas released statement in English is within this published article on this site. They indeed deny any sexual abuse of Israelis on 7th Oct or the hostages. Despite a mountain of evidence to show it happened including from released hostages.

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/hamas-releases-new-document-explaining-motives-for-october-7-y3qnfaal

 

 

[Greenhill]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Whose facts are you talking about? If your talking about Hamas then yes I agree, this article is an excellent example of why nobody should believe them. 

 

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/01/21/hamas-says-october-7-attacks-necessary-step-but-admits-to-faults_6453082_4.html

I did clearly say that it was Hamas's 'facts'.   They are renowned liars and manipulate figures and facts to suit themselves.   This includes their assertion that 25,000 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza.    Do they ever mention how many of those are their own terrorists?  No.   They clearly infer that they are ALL civilians & mostly women & children, at that!!    Why have they not built 'safe room's or air-raid shelters for them over the many years and with the billions of dollars in 'aid' they have received to help protect their civilians?    Instead, their leaders stole most of the money to live in luxury in Qatar, or built tunnels under Gaza for their terrorist activities.    They couldn't care less for their own Palestinian people.   They are just used as pawns and to enable Hamas to spread false propaganda about them.

[Greenhill]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The link to the full Hamas released statement in English is within this published article on this site. They indeed deny any sexual abuse of Israelis on 7th Oct or the hostages. Despite a mountain of evidence to show it happened including from released hostages.

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/hamas-releases-new-document-explaining-motives-for-october-7-y3qnfaal

 

 

There is also the 47 minute video shown to a select bunch of journalists but deemed to shocking to show the general public.   This video might well be shown after the war has finished but none of those journalists have queried its veracity.   We should not be giving voice to propaganda from terrorist organisations who have no compunction to say whatever they like without any retribution.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

I did clearly say that it was Hamas's 'facts'.   They are renowned liars and manipulate figures and facts to suit themselves.   This includes their assertion that 25,000 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza.    Do they ever mention how many of those are their own terrorists?  No.   They clearly infer that they are ALL civilians & mostly women & children, at that!!    Why have they not built 'safe room's or air-raid shelters for them over the many years and with the billions of dollars in 'aid' they have received to help protect their civilians?    Instead, their leaders stole most of the money to live in luxury in Qatar, or built tunnels under Gaza for their terrorist activities.    They couldn't care less for their own Palestinian people.   They are just used as pawns and to enable Hamas to spread false propaganda about them.

Yes I am aware of all that info, there is nearly 10,000 Hamas terrorists been killed by the IDF that needs to be taken off the 25k Palestinians that have been killed in Gaza.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Greenhill said:

There is also the 47 minute video shown to a select bunch of journalists but deemed to shocking to show the general public.   This video might well be shown after the war has finished but none of those journalists have queried its veracity.   We should not be giving voice to propaganda from terrorist organisations who have no compunction to say whatever they like without any retribution.

Yes been widely discussed already in other Israeli/Hamas war topics. Actually the IDF has released much of that video on its own site but cant link as far too graphic

[Morch]

44 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

If I recall correctly what I heard on the radio a few weeks ago, Israeli civilians generally do not have firearms available.   That it is (or was) difficult to legally have and carry firearms.  My impression was Israel had laws similar to those in countries that are against civilians having firearms and are only available to Police (I don't know if police there do have firearms) and military.   

I do not know the accuracy of this.  I was driving, had grandkids in the truck, and was only partially listening to what was being said.   

Having written the above, if my impression of the availability of firearms ownership and possession by Israeli civilians is correct, then the hamas brigades are flat out liars about the targeting of those who carried weapons against our people.   It would only be natural to carry weapons for use against people who are rewarded and celebrated as heroes, when they kill Israelis, i.e. against hamas!

 

Hamas's policy is that any male Israeli of fighting age is a combatant. I'm not arguing for this position, which is obviously bogus, just giving some relevant background on how Hamas frames things.

 

As for firearms and Israeli civilians - in years past, what you posted was true. Hard enough for ordinary citizens to have them (with some exceptions, like them illegal settlers in the West Bank). Very recently, the government changed these laws (pushed as a response to 7/10 as an excuse, and spearheaded by the extreme right-wing elements within) - making it super easy to get hold of a firearm. Tens of thousands of permits issued - a whole lot of problems with the hasty process already surfacing.

 

With regard to the settlements near the Gaza Strip: Each one had a security squad - which are basically volunteers (or maybe getting token payment/benefits, not sure these days and laws are currently being changed), mostly veterans with combat training (at least theoretically) who are supposed to act as first responders until police/army forces arrive. Arms (other than privately owned) are stored in a weapon depot, not in volunteers' houses or anything. Numbers of both squad members and arms made available were an issue of contention for some time, even before the 7/10 attack.

[herfiehandbag]

Sounds like a sound basis for a two state solution, and as such no doubt will be welcomed by the UN, no doubt leading to absolution for all Hamas' actions by Antonio Gutteres!

Edited January 23 by herfiehandbag

[Brickleberry]

37 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

I did clearly say that it was Hamas's 'facts'.   They are renowned liars and manipulate figures and facts to suit themselves.   This includes their assertion that 25,000 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza.    Do they ever mention how many of those are their own terrorists?  No.   They clearly infer that they are ALL civilians & mostly women & children, at that!!    Why have they not built 'safe room's or air-raid shelters for them over the many years and with the billions of dollars in 'aid' they have received to help protect their civilians?    Instead, their leaders stole most of the money to live in luxury in Qatar, or built tunnels under Gaza for their terrorist activities.    They couldn't care less for their own Palestinian people.   They are just used as pawns and to enable Hamas to spread false propaganda about them.

 

Actually, with regards to death tolls, they are a reliable source of information.

 

That being said, they do not tell us how many of the dead are terrorists. They do release names and Israeli ID numbers of all the dead to prove their claims... one might be asking how do they have Israeli ID numbers... this is because Israel is in control of the population records (as it is also in control of water, electricity, etc.) 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-is-gazas-ministry-of-health-and-how-does-it-calculate-the-wars-death-toll

Quote

 

The United Nations and other international institutions and experts, as well as Palestinian authorities in the West Bank — rivals of Hamas — say the Gaza ministry has long made a good-faith effort to account for the dead under the most difficult conditions.

“The numbers may not be perfectly accurate on a minute-to-minute basis,” said Michael Ryan, of the World Health Organization’s Health Emergencies Program. “But they largely reflect the level of death and injury.”

In previous wars, the ministry’s counts have held up to U.N. scrutiny, independent investigations and even Israel’s tallies.

 

 

Edited January 23 by Brickleberry

[JCauto]

20 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

But several journalists have pointed out that there is no evidence of any rape. Whilst I am sure that rape did occur, I do not believe that it was systemic and en mass - Israeli propaganda at full steam! Even Israel's own independent media admit there is no evidence - see Haaretz article quoted below.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/evidence-points-to-systematic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks

[Brickleberry]

11 minutes ago, JCauto said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/evidence-points-to-systematic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks

 

The Guardian can only corroborate six counts of sexual assault. Note that sexual assault also includes genital mutilation. Hardly a mass, systemic rape crusade. 

 

I do not condone this behavior, but it should be reported accurately. The fact that Israeli media itself says there is very little evidence of systematic rape speaks volumes. The Guardian can only find 6.

 

Quote

By cross-referencing testimonies given to police, published interviews with witnesses, and photo and video footage taken by survivors and first responders, the Guardian is aware of at least six sexual assaults for which multiple corroborating pieces of evidence exist.

 

[Brickleberry]

38 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Hamas's policy is that any male Israeli of fighting age is a combatant. I'm not arguing for this position, which is obviously bogus, just giving some relevant background on how Hamas frames things.

 

As for firearms and Israeli civilians - in years past, what you posted was true. Hard enough for ordinary citizens to have them (with some exceptions, like them illegal settlers in the West Bank). Very recently, the government changed these laws (pushed as a response to 7/10 as an excuse, and spearheaded by the extreme right-wing elements within) - making it super easy to get hold of a firearm. Tens of thousands of permits issued - a whole lot of problems with the hasty process already surfacing.

 

With regard to the settlements near the Gaza Strip: Each one had a security squad - which are basically volunteers (or maybe getting token payment/benefits, not sure these days and laws are currently being changed), mostly veterans with combat training (at least theoretically) who are supposed to act as first responders until police/army forces arrive. Arms (other than privately owned) are stored in a weapon depot, not in volunteers' houses or anything. Numbers of both squad members and arms made available were an issue of contention for some time, even before the 7/10 attack.

 

Incorrect. They have been carrying deadly weapons since 1994

https://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/26/world/west-bank-massacre-settlers-allowed-to-carry-guns.html

Quote

 

Jewish settlers in the occupied territories carry Uzi submachine guns that are issued to them by the army for self-defense. Many also carry pistols, which they can purchase with a gun license available to any Israeli citizen who can pass an official background check.

Settlers also are issued rifles and trained in their use during annual service in the army reserve, and those who are officers are permitted to keep these weapons at home even when they are not on reserve duty.

 

 

[JCauto]

26 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

But several journalists have pointed out that there is no evidence of any rape. Whilst I am sure that rape did occur, I do not believe that it was systemic and en mass - Israeli propaganda at full steam! Even Israel's own independent media admit there is no evidence - see Haaretz article quoted below. Furthermore, Israel has instructed its doctors not to allow any investigations into any of their claims... seems a bit suss right?

 

Elon Levy & Marc Regev often state these rape & pedophilia lies to western media to increase outrage and support amongst the public. I would rather listen to the Israeli media itself - where they clearly say there is no evidence for any of this BS.

 

https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/law/2024-01-04/ty-article/.premium/0000018c-d3e4-ddba-abad-d3e502980000?gift=0d660f6ae8134267b732f295253d7d35&lts=1704388472869

 

 

 

Now shall we look a bit more deeply into this highly suspect post?

NO JOURNALIST HAS POINTED OUT THAT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANY RAPE. This is a lie, an outright and blatant lie. Name the (credible) journalist. You won't because you can't.

 

"Israel has instructed its doctors not to allow any investigations into any of their claims" - there is no evidence for this.

 

The article you posted did NOT say there was no evidence for any of this BS. In fact, you deliberately linked to an article written in Hebrew that non-Israelis cannot read. The article is also behind a paywall. But you can observe the headline and sub-headline quite clearly. Here they are:

 

'It Takes Strength to Speak Out' |

Israeli Police Ask Victims and Witnesses to Testify About Hamas Sexual Violence

Most of the victims of Hamas sexual violence on October 7 were killed, taken hostage or are in a state of psychological distress and unable to testify. Israel's police investigators are now appealing to the public to encourage living victims or witnesses to contact them and give evidence.

So does that say there is no evidence for any of this BS? NO IT DOES NOT. It says that they're having difficulty finding witnesses for the reasons clearly stated. Dead women also tell no tales.

You're a joke and deliberately are painting a false picture here. You have no credibility.

 

[Brickleberry]

1 hour ago, Greenhill said:

I am 100% against barbaric terrorist group, Hamas.  They are clearly proud of their actions on 7th October and have publicly announced they will do the same again - if they get a chance.    

 

Me too, we agree.

 

However, they will keep doing it until they get an independent state. This is the only solution.

 

Can you agree that Bibi & his right wing pals have been an obstacle to peace since 1996? Can you agree that Bibi helped Hamas become what they are?

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Quote

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

 

[WDSmart]

Hamas: Oct 7 was 'necessary, normal response' to 'Israeli conspiracies'.

I don't think the Oct 7th Hamas massacres were either a "necessary" or "normal" response to Israeli conspiracies, but I do think there are extreme, right-wing Israeli (Zionist) conspiracies to complete the Jewish takeover of the land that was once called Palestine.  

[Brickleberry]

38 minutes ago, JCauto said:

 

Now shall we look a bit more deeply into this highly suspect post?

NO JOURNALIST HAS POINTED OUT THAT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANY RAPE. This is a lie, an outright and blatant lie. Name the (credible) journalist. You won't because you can't.

 

"Israel has instructed its doctors not to allow any investigations into any of their claims" - there is no evidence for this.

 

The article you posted did NOT say there was no evidence for any of this BS. In fact, you deliberately linked to an article written in Hebrew that non-Israelis cannot read. The article is also behind a paywall. But you can observe the headline and sub-headline quite clearly. Here they are:

 

'It Takes Strength to Speak Out' |

Israeli Police Ask Victims and Witnesses to Testify About Hamas Sexual Violence

Most of the victims of Hamas sexual violence on October 7 were killed, taken hostage or are in a state of psychological distress and unable to testify. Israel's police investigators are now appealing to the public to encourage living victims or witnesses to contact them and give evidence.

So does that say there is no evidence for any of this BS? NO IT DOES NOT. It says that they're having difficulty finding witnesses for the reasons clearly stated. Dead women also tell no tales.

You're a joke and deliberately are painting a false picture here. You have no credibility.

 

 

Firstly, my apologies. I meant to write systemic rape. I did point out in my first post that I believed some rape occurred - as it does in every conflict. If you use google chrome (as i do), you can translate it. It says they cannot match the evidence to any victims (last line prior to the paywall cutting it off. They do not have any evidence of systemic rape.

 

There is evidence (Times of Israel): https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-forbids-doctors-from-speaking-to-un-group-investigating-oct-7-atrocities/

Quote

 

The Health Ministry on Monday instructed members of the healthcare system not to cooperate with the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel, citing its perceived anti-Israel stance.

In recent weeks, senior physicians and hospital staff who treated October 7 victims and released hostages have received letters and emails from the commission, which operates under the UN Council for Human Rights. The commission requested information and interviews for its investigation of international and gender-based crimes since the beginning of the current Israel-Hamas war.

 

 

Journalists who have said this is not true:

 

 

Edited January 23 by Rimmer
Video from unapproved none news source has been removed

[JCauto]

1 minute ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Firstly, my apologies. I meant to write systemic rape. I did point out in my first post that I believed some rape occurred - as it does in every conflict. If you use google chrome (as i do), you can translate it.

 

There is evidence (Times of Israel): https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-forbids-doctors-from-speaking-to-un-group-investigating-oct-7-atrocities/

 

It says they cannot match the evidence to any victims (last line prior to the paywall cutting it off. They do not have any evidence of systemic rape.

 

 

Well, that changes your post quite a bit now, doesn't it? And the reason they don't have evidence YET is that they're still investigating it as was clearly stated in that article is that they're having issues because those affected were also killed, there weren't a lot of witnesses to these crimes and those who are still around are traumatized. In other words, there are no conclusions yet as to the veracity of systemic rape one way or the other although there certainly is evidence of Hamas fighters saying they were instructed to do so and rape clearly happened. So you are basically admitting that you made an ill-considered post that contains misstatements and errors. Why should we believe anything else you write when you're so lacking in care and so full of self-righteous anger that you're willing to twist words for impact and don't bother to check your facts?

As to the Doctor's evidence, it is VERY clear from the articles that they told the doctors not to talk to that one specific UN agency who is investigating because they believe it is anti-Israeli and biased. To state as you did that "Israel has instructed its doctors not to allow any investigations into any of their claims" is yet another example of a blatant misrepresentation of the truth. They did NOT! That I have caught you out twice now lying and deliberately misrepresenting the article you linked to yourself shows your bias. YOU. ARE. NOT. CREDIBLE.

[Brickleberry]

26 minutes ago, JCauto said:

 

Well, that changes your post quite a bit now, doesn't it? And the reason they don't have evidence YET is that they're still investigating it as was clearly stated in that article is that they're having issues because those affected were also killed, there weren't a lot of witnesses to these crimes and those who are still around are traumatized. In other words, there are no conclusions yet as to the veracity of systemic rape one way or the other although there certainly is evidence of Hamas fighters saying they were instructed to do so and rape clearly happened. So you are basically admitting that you made an ill-considered post that contains misstatements and errors. Why should we believe anything else you write when you're so lacking in care and so full of self-righteous anger that you're willing to twist words for impact and don't bother to check your facts?

As to the Doctor's evidence, it is VERY clear from the articles that they told the doctors not to talk to that one specific UN agency who is investigating because they believe it is anti-Israeli and biased. To state as you did that "Israel has instructed its doctors not to allow any investigations into any of their claims" is yet another example of a blatant misrepresentation of the truth. They did NOT! That I have caught you out twice now lying and deliberately misrepresenting the article you linked to yourself shows your bias. YOU. ARE. NOT. CREDIBLE.

 

Well now your tone has completely changed too - first you tried providing a Guardian article that backed up your claim. You failed to note that it concluded only 6 sexual assaults were verifiable - note they did not say rape, they said sexual assault. You now acknowledge that the systematic rape of Israelis has so far been unsubstantiated.

 

No I do not admit that my post contained errors and misstatements. I omitted one word from a later post - systemic. If you look back at my previous posts before that one - my very first post on this subject, I clearly state: I believe some rape occurred, but I do not think it was systemic or en mass" I shouldn't have to clarify my words every single post.

 

How is my statement incorrect? The one specific UN agency is the only agency with international approval to carry out these investigations, who else, pray tell would you suggest? The UN agency is the internationally accepted body that carries out investigations. Claiming the UN is antisemitic is just ridiculous. Then again, who would be surprised. They cast that smear on anyone who refuses to swallow their propaganda.

 

Everything I have said has been backed up with sources, and I have responded to each and all of your points. I have credibility sir, and integrity.

Edited January 23 by Brickleberry

[Purdey]

11 hours ago, Social Media said:

Hamas contended in the report that any cases of targeting civilians were accidental and occurred during confrontations with Israeli forces. 

Does this, therefore, mean that Hamas also understands that any case of targeting Palestinian civilians were accidental and occurred during confrontation with Hamas forces?

It is really pathetic. 

[JCauto]

2 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Well now your tone has completely changed too - first you tried providing a Guardian article that backed up your claim. You failed to note that it concluded only 6 sexual assaults were verifiable - note they did not say rape, they said sexual assault. You now acknowledge that the systematic rape of Israelis has so far been unsubstantiated.

 

No I do not admit that my post contained errors and misstatements. I omitted one word from a later post - systemic. If you look back at my previous posts before that one - my very first post on this subject, I clearly state: I believe some rape occurred, but I do not think it was systemic or en mass" I shouldn't have to clarify my words every single post.

 

How is my statement incorrect? The one specific UN agency is the only agency with international approval to carry out these investigations, who else, pray tell would you suggest? The UN agency is the internationally accepted body that carries out investigations. Claiming the UN is antisemitic is just ridiculous. Then again, who would be surprised. They cast that smear on anyone who refuses to swallow their propaganda.

 

Everything I have said has been backed up with sources, and I have responded to each and all of your points. I have credibility sir, and integrity.

 

The Israelis are also investigating as this was the actual topic of the article that you posted - the Police were asking for witnesses as they were having trouble finding them in their ongoing investigation. Whether they have "international approval", whatever that means, is not something that either was discussed or mentioned. So you are once again deliberately obfuscating in your response; nobody said anything about "international approval", YOU posted that the Israelis have not allowed "ANY" investigations. This is clearly not true.

If you wish to be seen as someone with integrity and credibility, then you need to proofread your posts and remove language that is incorrect or unclear or deliberately emotive. Your errors in this regard all changed the sentences to make things look far far worse for the Israelis than if you had been careful and used the correct terminology. This points to a bias, whether conscious or unconscious. You are claiming that this is unconscious, and as you're not the usual sort of poster who immediately starts into whataboutism or name-calling, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. But it would behoove you to carefully check your posts when they're about such an emotive and controversial topic.

 

[Foxx]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

Hamas's policy is that any male Israeli of fighting age is a combatant. I'm not arguing for this position, which is obviously bogus, just giving some relevant background on how Hamas frames things.

 

That is not Hamas' own policy, it's the policy of Islam, as exemplified by the perfect man and role model, Islam's "prophet" Mohammed.  At Banu Qurayza (a Jewish village) Mohammed authorised the slaughter of all post-pubescent boys and men.  Hundreds were murdered.  This was in 627 CE, and it is still the duty of Muslim men to act likewise in the footsteps of their role model and inspiration.

[Brickleberry]

1 hour ago, JCauto said:

 

The Israelis are also investigating as this was the actual topic of the article that you posted - the Police were asking for witnesses as they were having trouble finding them in their ongoing investigation. Whether they have "international approval", whatever that means, is not something that either was discussed or mentioned. So you are once again deliberately obfuscating in your response; nobody said anything about "international approval", YOU posted that the Israelis have not allowed "ANY" investigations. This is clearly not true.

If you wish to be seen as someone with integrity and credibility, then you need to proofread your posts and remove language that is incorrect or unclear or deliberately emotive. Your errors in this regard all changed the sentences to make things look far far worse for the Israelis than if you had been careful and used the correct terminology. This points to a bias, whether conscious or unconscious. You are claiming that this is unconscious, and as you're not the usual sort of poster who immediately starts into whataboutism or name-calling, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. But it would behoove you to carefully check your posts when they're about such an emotive and controversial topic.

 

 

My problem is I feel for both sides.

 

This problem was caused by western racists - our ancestors who forced Jews out of their home countries across Europe and Russia. These pogroms effectively forced the Jewish people to find somewhere safe to live. Nazi Germany was the epitome of racism, and heralded the dawn of Israel as we know it today. We caused this problem. If we were not so racist in the past, these Jewish people would still be living in their home countries, and I assume the Jews, Christians and Arabs living in British Mandate for Palestine would still be living happily together in what would now be Palestine.

 

Unfortunately, I also recognize the plight of Arabs who were massacred, disenfranchised and robbed of their homes and lands when Israel was formed. Whilst I recognize and defend the right of Israel to exist, it should have been done differently. Two states should have been set up, not only one for one party. The land should have been divided fairly, or one state with a democratically elected, secular governing body.

 

Western bias makes me increasingly angry, we only ever hear from one side. You have to actively find information about the other side's plight. I am not surprised that there are so many people who adamantly refuse to acknowledge any crimes by Israel, the media feeds them a diet of 'Israel is a wonderful democracy, and it is always the victim' whilst ignoring the realities on the ground. Douglas Murray really gets under my skin every time I see his smug, fascist face on Talk TV. I deplore the racist overtones (they aren't shy, we can't say undertones!) of Talk TV - but I must watch it to see what the other side is saying.