Unpaid Hospital Bills

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Photoguy21 said:

Why not set up reciprocal agreements between countries? That way payment would not be an issue.

 

That 'would' make sense and is exactly what used to happen in the EU pre-Brexit...  but no more.

 

The issue of course is that people do not take responsibility for themselves.

When I first came over to Thailand in my early 20's - I didn't take out medical insurance... I was naïve and ignorant to such issues, as many young people are...   Then there others who just do not care or think something could happen to them.

 

IMO - as Thailand already makes so much money from Tourism, they should write off the burden costs which only falls at 1% of the income to the medical industry - which is pretty much what they already do...  but then there are the constant announcements complaining about the burden of tourists which is not exactly welcoming for a country which relies so heavily on tourism.

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

5 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Many countries do not pay for medical service - it is a private service.

True but many do

 

That then becomes a nightmare attempting to single out those tourist from countries with reciprocal agreements and those who don't....

 

The simplest solution would be to include insurance in landing costs (taxes) - of course, this is unfair on Thai's and those who already have insurance...  

 

There are a lot of what ifs and no one size fits all solution here...    

 

 

[Photoguy21]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

That then becomes a nightmare attempting to single out those tourist from countries with reciprocal agreements and those who don't....

 

The simplest solution would be to include insurance in landing costs (taxes) - of course, this is unfair on Thai's and those who already have insurance...  

 

There are a lot of what ifs and no one size fits all solution here...    

 

 

It is what computers are for. It isnt difficult

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

That then becomes a nightmare attempting to single out those tourist from countries with reciprocal agreements and those who don't....

 

The simplest solution would be to include insurance in landing costs (taxes) - of course, this is unfair on Thai's and those who already have insurance...  

 

There are a lot of what ifs and no one size fits all solution here...    

 

 

Write it off as the cost of doing business - with government taking the loss from its normal tourism

funds.

[Captor]

17 hours ago, The Old Bull said:

I had my apendix out a few years ago before they had an ATM at the hospital.So when I went to leave they put me in an ambulance and headed to the nearest ATM with the lights and siren on ,wasn't too expensive around $1200. I think I was in the hospital three nights.

It would be helpful to know if private or governmental hospital...

[lopburi3]

7 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

It is what computers are for. It isnt difficult

Actually it is very difficult as there are hundreds of insurance brands and types and conditions for coverage and payment - they can't even do this for the for hundreds who apply for Non Immigrant O-A visas - they must buy special insurance to meet requirements.

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

It is what computers are for. It isnt difficult

 

Somewhat of a dumbed down simplification of a complicated issue... "let computers deal with it"... 

 

So how would you let the 'computers deal with it' exactly ???

 

First reciprocal agreements have to be set up with all other countries ? (or many of them) - any idea what that involves ???

 

And why would Thailand set up a reciprocal agreement with Schengen countries which insist on travel insurance to obtain a visa ?

 

And how to they check each person ?... At Immigration on entry ???  Who checks the insurance and validity of that insurance ? 

If there is no reciprocal agreement - where do they buy an insurance package ? from the Immigration desk, or they get sent back to another desk to purchase insurance ??...    

 

Airports are already under criticism for the excessive queues... you want to add more ??

 

 

IMO - there are only two solutions:

- Add a flat rate to Air-tickets (everyone pays.. i.e. 300 baht)

or, better still... 

- Accept that this issue has no simple solution and accept that the burden is only 1% of Medical income from tourists, better still accept that the burden cost is actually 0.085% of the total income from tourists....

i.e. its a drop in the ocean, so stop complaining Thailand and start valuing tourists, promote how Thailand looks after tourists, attract more tourists by showing how Thailand values them.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Write it off as the cost of doing business - with government taking the loss from its normal tourism

funds.

 

Exactly....     the cost of 'doing business' in this case is 0.085% of the income from the foreign Tourist industry.

[Ralf001]

11 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Write it off as the cost of doing business - with government taking the loss from its normal tourism

funds.

 

if they did that and was made known to the public/tourists the numbers will rise sharply as people will stop obtaining insurance.

 

If a tourist is unable to pay their bill (and the governments covers it) that person should be blacklisted for 5 years.

Edited January 26 by Ralf001

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

18 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Write it off as the cost of doing business - with government taking the loss from its normal tourism

funds.

 

if they did that and was made known to the public/tourists the numbers will rise sharply as people will stop obtaining insurance.

 

If a tourist is unable to pay their bill (and the governments covers it) that person should be blacklisted for 5 years.

 

Would it..  ??...   no one gets in an accident deliberately... 

 

Also, would those who take out travel insurance not continue to do so because they want to ensure good treatment in a private facility ?

 

Additionally, as per a lot of the 'stories' we read, many have insurance and the claim is rejected because the injured party was under the influence, or rejected due to some other clause.

 

 

That said: Perhaps this is what Thailand is already doing... they're 'writing off the burden costs'... but not advertising they do so...  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NanLaew]

On 1/25/2024 at 9:18 AM, flyingtlger said:

Yes, the hospitals that I've been in Thailand will not even allow a doctor to see you unless they have all your information.

Now if someone was seriously injured and unconscious and rushed into the emergency room, that maybe a different story.

I see more media coverage of tourist or expats that are seriously injured asked for help via GoFundMe or begging for help from their countrymen....

 

Where's that? I have been treated at three hospitals in Pattaya between 1979 and 2005, three in Bangkok between 1998 and 2022 and three in Udon Thani between 2005 and last year. Never once have the details of payment method been requested or pre-payment taken until after consultation and/or treatment. The cashier is the last desk I visit and that's where they ask "cash or credit". Yes, I have been advised of the expected cost, but only once was I required to provide them with charge card information before final discharge. However, that was for my Thai wife, who was under observation for four days.

[Captor]

48 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

That 'would' make sense and is exactly what used to happen in the EU pre-Brexit...  but no more.

 

The issue of course is that people do not take responsibility for themselves.

When I first came over to Thailand in my early 20's - I didn't take out medical insurance... I was naïve and ignorant to such issues, as many young people are...   Then there others who just do not care or think something could happen to them.

 

IMO - as Thailand already makes so much money from Tourism, they should write off the burden costs which only falls at 1% of the income to the medical industry - which is pretty much what they already do...  but then there are the constant announcements complaining about the burden of tourists which is not exactly welcoming for a country which relies so heavily on tourism.

 

 

 

 

 

There still is the agreement between countries whitin EU. I as Swedish citizen will have free healthcare in any EU country.

[John Drake]

On 1/25/2024 at 8:05 AM, Mike Lister said:

I had five days in hospital in November and had to leave a deposit and a credit card number before hand, my experience in Bangkok, fifteen years earlier was exactly the same. 

 

Last time I was in a hospital was four years ago. Kidney stones. I was admitted free and clear but had to pay for the procedure itself beforehand. Same private hospital I've used before. If it's a night's stay or so, I always pay on exiting (with a couple of orderlies standing beside the wheelchair they put me in). But for anything major, it's money upfront. I've always contended that the idea of Western retirees skipping out on their medical bills was farcical. If anybody is sticking Thais with medical bills, it's the younger tourists who ride around smashing into things or falling off balconies.

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, Captor said:

There still is the agreement between countries whitin EU. I as Swedish citizen will have free healthcare in any EU country.

 

No longer with the UK though...   (post brexit).... so the Framework to have something similar between Thailand and other countries is likely to be so complicated the probability of that happening is miniscule... 

 

Additionally, the cost of treatment throughout the EU is fairly similar...  but there is an extreme difference in comparison cost of treatment in the US and Thailand (for example) - thus any attempts to push through reciprocal agreements are unlikely to ever materialise.

 

 

The only viable routes are:

- Systems in place to ensure all have insraunce cover (that covers everything - even pished up incidents)... 

OR...

- Write the burden cost off (as 'cost of doing business' as Lopburi3 put it)

 

 

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

Depends on who is in the ambulance. In the absence of anything else Thais will normally be taken to the nearest government hospital and foreigners to a private hospital.

Friend of mine had a heart attack and his wife called the ambulance, he came round in the ambulance and told the driver to take him home. The driver did what he was told and friend died a few days later.

Good, maybe he was happy dying that way rather than it being dragged out for ages

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Some people just don't want to be helped. I lost a close friend a few months ago after he refused treatment that may have prolonged his life. He didn't want to be a financial burden on his family.

Brave man, well done, again, didn't want to drag it out

[CartagenaWarlock]

I go to BPH and never pay anything in advance except before leaving. I stayed overnight twice, and on both occasions, they told me how much the charge would be in advance. Maybe all these talks of hospitals asking for money before admitting are a fantasy. In Bangkok, I used to go to Bumrungrad, and the story is the same. 

[n00dle]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Correct...  I was very slightly off....

 

300,000,000 of 24,000,000,000 is actually 1.25% not 1.5%... 

 

And I used the estimate for 2022... 

 

If using the estimate for 2024, then the Burden of unpaid medical bills of foreign tourist to Thailand is actually 1% of the value to the medical industry of Tourism to Thailand.

 

 

 

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/30365540

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1311335/thailand-market-value-of-medical-tourism/

 

 

there is always some danger when I argue maths, but you said:

 

Quote

 

19 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I just want to point out at this time that the medical burden of tourists on Thailands medical industry (i.e. cost of unpaid bills) is 300,000 Million Baht a year....   which is 1.5% of the income tourists bring to the medical industry which is 24 Billion Baht year.

 

So.. if foreigners stopped coming to Thailand, Thailands medical industry would be 23.7 Billion Baht per year worse off... 

 

.

correct me if I'm wrong, but 300,000 million = 300 billion. that equals 8.42 billion usd.

Are you seriously trying to tell me the annual loss of revenue due foreign bill skippers is 8.42 billion USD annually?

 

[Mike Lister]

7 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Poster @Liquorice, in which part of the country is the hospital that you work in, please?

The poster has told me that he's located in the North East.

[n00dle]

19 hours ago, ukrules said:

But that's 300 Billion Baht

he doesn't seem to care to acknowledge that. he's on a roll. 

[n00dle]

4 minutes ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

I go to BPH and never pay anything in advance except before leaving. I stayed overnight twice, and on both occasions, they told me how much the charge would be in advance. Maybe all these talks of hospitals asking for money before admitting are a fantasy. In Bangkok, I used to go to Bumrungrad, and the story is the same. 

are you insured?

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, n00dle said:

he doesn't seem to care to acknowledge that. he's on a roll. 

That point has been discussed several times earlier in the thread, we all need to move on.

[n00dle]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

That point has been discussed several times earlier in the thread, we all need to move on.

Ok Mike, Thanks.

[CartagenaWarlock]

1 hour ago, n00dle said:

are you insured?

I'm insured in the US, and it pays only 50% in Thailand because it is out of their PPO network. I also have an HSA card with years of contributions and have accumulated an impressive return on investment in the HSA. If you're a US citizen, you will know what an HSA is and its tax-free benefits. 

[Ralf001]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Where's that? I have been treated at three hospitals in Pattaya between 1979 and 2005, three in Bangkok between 1998 and 2022 and three in Udon Thani between 2005 and last year. Never once have the details of payment method been requested or pre-payment taken until after consultation and/or treatment. The cashier is the last desk I visit and that's where they ask "cash or credit". Yes, I have been advised of the expected cost, but only once was I required to provide them with charge card information before final discharge. However, that was for my Thai wife, who was under observation for four days.

For me JAN 2023.

I fronted at Bangkok Jomtien hospital with what I thought was dehydration.

Front desk asked for my passport and insurance card and then was plonked into a wheel chair and rolled in A&E.

Soon became evident I had severe pneumonia in both lungs with my blood oxygen level at 66%.

Within minutes a lady arrived requesting a deposit be paid before treatment would start.

I woke from an induced coma 2 weeks later in a different hospital as my insurance refused to cover expenses and as I was unconscious I could not provide further funds to cover the costs which were growing by 100k per day.

[grain]

14 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

For me JAN 2023.

I fronted at Bangkok Jomtien hospital with what I thought was dehydration.

Front desk asked for my passport and insurance card and then was plonked into a wheel chair and rolled in A&E.

Soon became evident I had severe pneumonia in both lungs with my blood oxygen level at 66%.

Within minutes a lady arrived requesting a deposit be paid before treatment would start.

I woke from an induced coma 2 weeks later in a different hospital as my insurance refused to cover expenses and as I was unconscious I could not provide further funds to cover the costs which were growing by 100k per day.

That was your mistake. I've told my Thai wife if ever I'm unconscious never never never take me to one of those Bangkok hospitals, take me to the nearest government hospital. 

[Ralf001]

13 minutes ago, grain said:

That was your mistake. I've told my Thai wife if ever I'm unconscious never never never take me to one of those Bangkok hospitals, take me to the nearest government hospital. 

 

I drove to the hospital.

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

I'm insured in the US, and it pays only 50% in Thailand because it is out of their PPO network. I also have an HSA card with years of contributions and have accumulated an impressive return on investment in the HSA. If you're a US citizen, you will know what an HSA is and its tax-free benefits. 

Actually that has only been around for 20 years so there are some of us US citizens that don't know about, or use it, or need it.

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, n00dle said:

 

there is always some danger when I argue maths, but you said:

 

.

correct me if I'm wrong, but 300,000 million = 300 billion. that equals 8.42 billion usd.

Are you seriously trying to tell me the annual loss of revenue due foreign bill skippers is 8.42 billion USD annually?

 

 

Oh borrox... Right you are !!.....   Brain fart !!.... 300 Million... (but you knew it was a typo already).

 

I didn't even see the error after it was pointed out... Twice !!! 

 

Anyway - as per the links (and embedded copy of the key info from the link).

 

The numbers are 300 Million & 29 Billion - with the medical cost burden of unpaid tourist bills at 1% of the income to the medical industry from tourism.

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, n00dle said:

Are you seriously trying to tell me the annual loss of revenue due foreign bill skippers is 8.42 billion USD annually?

 

And no I'm not... But you can see that already...