Medical oxygen cylinder- safe to leave in a hot car?

[poppysdad]

I have severe breathing problems but do like to get out and about daily - problem being sometimes a few yards will give me issues and others I can manage a few hundred yards before needing a rest. I’ve just ordered a portable oxygen setup to take out in the car with us for use when we walk around the park or other places etc but generally don’t need if I’m going into a mall or cafe as cool and air conditioning certainly eases my breathing. In these instances I will leave the the oxygen cylinder in the car but with the steady rise in temperatures already are they quite safe to leave in the car without causing any issues?

[Lacessit]

The temperature of an oxygen cylinder should not exceed 52 C, although there is probably a safety factor built into the specification.

 

https://www.airgas.com/msds/001043.pdf

 

I would suggest parking your car in the shade or a mall car park. You can also protect the cylinder from direct sunlight and temperature rise with a reflective foil blanket, and leaving one of your car windows cracked a bit to ensure ventilation.

 

"Cylinders should be stored upright, with valve protection cap in place, and firmly secured to prevent falling or being knocked over. Cylinder temperatures should not exceed 52 °C (125 °F). Separate from reducing agents and combustible materials. Store away from grease and oil."

 

Pure oxygen - SAFETY DATA SHEET

Edited February 3 by Lacessit

[poppysdad]

Thanks muchly lacessit, I will heed your advice. 

[Georgealbert]

Fully agree with@ Lacessit

 

A closed up car parked for too long in direct sunlight could get above the recommended temperature.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-hot-does-a-car-get-in-the-sun-heres-why-the-extreme-heat-can-be-so-deadly-in- a-parked-car/#:~:text=All it takes is an,it can hit 123 degrees.

 

This is from the USA National Library of Medicine, same advice.

 

“Safe Storage and Transportation

 

Cylinders must be stored upright and secured using a rack, strap, or chain to minimize the chance of falling over. Cylinders should be transported using a cart or carrier. Never drop or hit cylinders, and never drag, roll, or slide cylinders, even for a short distance. Only qualified personnel should refill cylinders. While using cylinders, avoid flammable substances, smoking, open flame, or any other incendiary sources. Cylinders should be stored in a dry, cool, well-ventilated area away from exposure to weather. Cylinders should be stored at temperatures less than 125 oF (52 oC).”

Edited February 3 by Georgealbert

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Georgealbert said:

Fully agree with @Lacessit

 

This is from the USA National Library of Medicine, same advice.

 

Safe Storage and Transportation

 

Cylinders must be stored upright and secured using a rack, strap, or chain to minimize the chance of falling over. Cylinders should be transported using a cart or carrier. Never drop or hit cylinders, and never drag, roll, or slide cylinders, even for a short distance. Only qualified personnel should refill cylinders. While using cylinders, avoid flammable substances, smoking, open flame, or any other incendiary sources. Cylinders should be stored in a dry, cool, well-ventilated area away from exposure to weather. Cylinders should be stored at temperatures less than 125 oF (52 oC).

There is nothing wrong with storing a cylinder flat, provided that the pressure regulator is protected from being knocked in any way. A cylinder is a lot of stored kinetic energy, with 2000 psi of pressure behind it. Reports of release incidents indicate a cylinder is capable of going through the wall of a building.

The main reason for storing upright and restrained is to protect the pressure regulator, which is the weak point.

[Georgealbert]

41 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

There is nothing wrong with storing a cylinder flat, provided that the pressure regulator is protected from being knocked in any way. A cylinder is a lot of stored kinetic energy, with 2000 psi of pressure behind it. Reports of release incidents indicate a cylinder is capable of going through the wall of a building.

The main reason for storing upright and restrained is to protect the pressure regulator, which is the weak point.

 

41 minutes ago, Lacessit said:.

I agree with you, I see no problem with them being stored flat.

 

My quote was from the USA National Library of Medicine, which I think makes the recommendations for hospital conditions to avoid the cylinders being knocked over, to prevent the damage you mentioned to the valve.
 

Should have cut the quote down to just the last sentence. Storage always should be away from hydrocarbons, grease or oil.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK513350/#:~:text=Cylinders should be stored in,requirements than other medical gases.

 

Cylinder safety video

 

 

 

Edited February 3 by Georgealbert

[poppysdad]

Thanks again guys, I perhaps should’ve added that the setup does come with a shoulder strap carrier bag and weighs a little over 4kg so perhaps when we hit those promised mid 40’s I’ll simply take it in the malls etc with me. 

[impulse]

I'd add that if you start out with the cylinder 1/2 or 3/4 full, you have a huge safety margin leaving it in a hot car.  It may be more convenient to bleed off a little pressure (understanding that it'll cost you money because you'll need to refill it) than it is to lug it around all day.

 

Out of curiosity, with just a 4 kg cylinder, do you have a larger bottle at home to refill it, or do you have to haul it in each time?

 

 

[poppysdad]

Impulse, I’m buying it from an outlet that’s just a few minutes from home and they can also do the refills for me. It’s really just an experiment to see if it will benefit me when out and about, and if so then I can maybe go for a larger cylinder but also the main purpose is to give me breathing relief when I have just walked somewhere and end up gasping for breath. 

[NanLaew]

It will be a lot cooler in the boot/trunk.

[NanLaew]

It will be a lot cooler in the boot/trunk.

[impulse]

24 minutes ago, poppysdad said:

Impulse, I’m buying it from an outlet that’s just a few minutes from home and they can also do the refills for me. It’s really just an experiment to see if it will benefit me when out and about, and if so then I can maybe go for a larger cylinder but also the main purpose is to give me breathing relief when I have just walked somewhere and end up gasping for breath. 

 

I ask because my GF here in China needed supplemental oxygen and we kept (basically) an O2 welding tank at home and have a pony bottle for the road and around the rest of the house.  We refill the pony bottle from the big one so we don't have to call them out for service as often.  The big $$ seems to be the house call fee, with the O2 being a smaller part of the bill.  If you're convenient to the refill vendor, that may not be an issue for you.

 

Edited February 3 by impulse

[Pouatchee]

35 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

 We refill the pony bottle from the big one so we don't have to call them out for service as often.  

 

 

How do you do that? I tried once and blew a pretty strong hose... scare the hell outta me... let me know I need to do it too

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

 

How do you do that? I tried once and blew a pretty strong hose... scare the hell outta me... let me know I need to do it too

 

The pony bottle came with a solid metal tube with fittings on both ends for the purpose. Total length of the tubing is about a meter, but it's wrapped in a circle so it ends up being flexible and pretty small and fits into the plastic case that the whole kit came in. As I recall, it had a tiny pinhole choke in the line so it took awhile to fill the small bottle, otherwise it heats up.

 

Bottle, gauge, regulator, refill tube, and clear plastic tube with a couple of different ends depending on whether we ran it to her nose or over her face/nose, all came in a self contained plastic suitcase. We bought it at a health care supply store here in China.  I suspect they'd have them in the health care supply markets like the one near BTS Victory Monument and the hospitals there.  I was gobsmacked what I could buy there after my bypass surgery.  Stuff you'd need a prescription for back home. (Including oxygen concentrators)

 

[steven100]

it sounds to me like you may be better off in a proper medical home type facility where you can get the appropriate care. I say this because what happens if you fall down accidentally or trip on a pavement and fall, or suddenly run out of breath. 

 

Others outside don't want and shouldn't be responsible because your health and medical condition is questionable.

It's selfish to think otherwise,  one need to look after one health but when it deteriorates you cannot simple do nothing and expect others to carry your irresponsibility.

 

 

Edited February 3 by steven100

[poppysdad]

What absolute nonsense steven100, perhaps you might like to send me a cyanide pill and I’ll put myself out of YOUR misery. Now get back on with your life of misery and I’ll continue trying to get the best out of mine. 

[steven100]

well,   obviously don't keep the tank in a hot car as others pointed out,  and ensure the tank is always upright.

anyways, good luck &  good health Poppysdad.

[NanLaew]

10 hours ago, steven100 said:

it sounds to me like you may be better off in a proper medical home type facility where you can get the appropriate care. I say this because what happens if you fall down accidentally or trip on a pavement and fall, or suddenly run out of breath. 

 

Others outside don't want and shouldn't be responsible because your health and medical condition is questionable.

It's selfish to think otherwise,  one need to look after one health but when it deteriorates you cannot simple do nothing and expect others to carry your irresponsibility.

 

 

 

With your "Others outside don't want and shouldn't be responsible" diatribe, it sounds like you may agree that the Covid lock downs could have been avoided if they had just let nature take its course and let the old and infirm cark it?

 

And we're the selfish ones?

 

[Dazinoz]

On 2/3/2024 at 7:22 PM, impulse said:

 

I ask because my GF here in China needed supplemental oxygen and we kept (basically) an O2 welding tank at home and have a pony bottle for the road and around the rest of the house.  We refill the pony bottle from the big one so we don't have to call them out for service as often.  The big $$ seems to be the house call fee, with the O2 being a smaller part of the bill.  If you're convenient to the refill vendor, that may not be an issue for you.

 

I would be a little wary of using a welding O2  tank. Yes its the same oxygen but breathing tanks are purged and refilled and the oxygen tested, welding tanks are not as they are not intended fro human consumption.Just a thought.

[jaideedave]

Wouldn't they come with a safety relief valve and "pop" to release excess pressure when overheated? I wouldn't want to be very close to it when it did.I recall a safety investigation film years ago of a welding cylinder falling over and busted off the valves and it torpedoed through a wall.

[impulse]

17 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

I would be a little wary of using a welding O2  tank. Yes its the same oxygen but breathing tanks are purged and refilled and the oxygen tested, welding tanks are not as they are not intended fro human consumption.Just a thought.

 

That's a good point, and it's not actually a welding tank.  It just looks exactly the same.  And the truck that used to unload the O2 tanks at my shop for welding also make a stop to unload O2 tanks at the local hospitals.  I never did check to see how they differentiate.  And it's a well recognized international brand so I assumed they did it right. (Airgas)

 

So, though I refer to it as (basically) a welding tank, it is the same O2 they deliver to hospitals.  If you're buying your O2 from a mom and pop outfit, you do need to be careful it comes in a clean tank and meets medical grade (which seems to be 99.5% O2 and not just 99%).

 

[alanrchase]

I wouldn't worry. I used to work on aircraft in the Middle East and there was a small emergency oxygen bottle attached to the ejection seats. Sometimes the aircraft were parked in direct sunlight at midday with the canopy closed and there was never a problem. The cockpit temperature easily exceeded 52C. 

[The Theory]

On 2/3/2024 at 4:00 PM, poppysdad said:

but generally don’t need if I’m going into a mall or cafe as cool and air conditioning certainly eases my breathing.

Do you drink enough water daily ? 
Enough means about 3L. 

[ujayujay]

Buy a cooling Box maybe😉

[sungod]

2 hours ago, alanrchase said:

I wouldn't worry. I used to work on aircraft in the Middle East and there was a small emergency oxygen bottle attached to the ejection seats. Sometimes the aircraft were parked in direct sunlight at midday with the canopy closed and there was never a problem. The cockpit temperature easily exceeded 52C. 

I've driven around some countries in the ME with a cylinder in the boot (trunk if you are from across the pond)

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, Dazinoz said:

I would be a little wary of using a welding O2  tank. Yes its the same oxygen but breathing tanks are purged and refilled and the oxygen tested, welding tanks are not as they are not intended fro human consumption.Just a thought.

Oxygen oxidizes contaminants. I am hard put to think of any impurity which would cause an adverse reaction in humans.

Of course, a welding tank might have contaminants such as nitrogen or argon, but these are inert gases which would have zero effect.

[xtrnuno41]

Would you need big bottle? There are smaller portable ones.

Only for info I send pic from lazada, as there are more. Searching on oxygen.

 

ALWAYS be aware when you are using oxygen, the gas can get in your clothes

and then a tiny spark is enough for an explosive, rapid fire ! 

Especially when clothes consist of, or contains plastics, pure cotton is way better to wear.

It is already said be aware with grease, fat, oil as it can start a fire WITHOUT a spark ! 

You get an automatic exotherm reaction, with rapid fire.

 

It is NEVER good to leave any gas filled can, container in higher temperatures.!!

Even a gas lighter leaving it in higher temperatures can "explode" then. OK, you need a spark then, but housing can break open.

Oxygen doesnt explode by itself, the container can break, but when it comes out, it exile rate fire to explosive burning or depending on substance gives an explosion. 

Be aware where you use it and what is in your surrounding. For rapid fire with oxygen to occur, you need 3 things:

Oxygen, fire source (clothes), and a spark.

However oxygen also has the ability to start a fire WITHOUT a spark with grease, oil, fat.

[cdemundo]

I am not sure about cost, but have you looked into a portable oxygen concentrator?

Cost: I just Googled them and prices advertised from 23k to 43k baht. But ongoing costs are low.

You don't have to worry about refills only recharging the battery.

So maybe more convenient than tanks.

 

They are small now as manufacturing them has advanced, maybe the size of a briefcase.

Definitely would fit in a backpack.

Then you just have to manage battery recharging and not worry about pressurized cylinders.

 

 

Edited February 5 by cdemundo

[poppysdad]

Thanks cdemundo but I already have one but find it helps a little but according to medical friends who know about these things the amount of oxygen produced tends to be heavily diluted unless of course you buy the very expensive ones which are indeed expensive. 
I have also used and indeed have the oxyplus ones sitting by my side but you cannot regulate the flow at all hence my going for what Ive just purchased. 

[Paris333]

You are a special category of citizen and you can park your car without the police registering an infringement.
I think if you print out a card that says you're getting oxygen therapy, there won't be any problem.