Expat Tax Twists in Thailand: Navigating the New Landscape in 2024

[offset]

26 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/220364guide-allow.pdf

 

 

Sorry I have looked through this form but I cannot see where it says school fees are deductible only say a child allowance of 30000baht

[puck2]

On 2/10/2024 at 12:51 PM, Mike Lister said:

Agreed.

 

An English language version of that ruling may better help some.

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

 

Thank you, this was very helpful for me, especially the answer to question #15 !

 

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, offset said:

Sorry I have looked through this form but I cannot see where it says school fees are deductible only say a child allowance of 30000baht

Yes, I was wrong, you're entitled to the personal allowance for the child only. Sorry 

[puck2]

Refering to my last comment, the pronblems for both sides, the Thai tax offices and the foreign tax payers are immense.

 

Concerning my last comment, what will they do, if I transfer only a part of my "earnings" abroad to Thailand. Do they, the RD's, reduce the full tax I payed in my home country or only the proportionate part??? If YES, they would not respect my "homeland allowences".

 

Problems, problems ..... problems for the Thai RD !!!!  They would be unable to cope with the giant number of problems/questions, I'm afraid of. All the foreign countries have different tax laws.

[Dan SG]

On 2/11/2024 at 8:44 AM, RichardColeman said:

I totally disagree - the sale of an asset is the transference of an asset into cash - it is not an income. If the Thai declare ALL income to Thailand is taxable, along with the transfering of your savings(of which tax has already been paid on in your home country potentially) the entire foreign housing market will collapse.

 

Personally I think the only people that they will be going after are people that live in thailand but have money paid direct into a thai bank account by a company that cannot be shown to have paid tax on the income. Otherwise it is just a 10% tax raid on everybody's savings and transfers.

 

I am in the position of having a house in the UK that I can go back to, this effects me, my plan has always been to sell my house and bring the family to the UK ,I will just do it sooner rather than later.

 

As for those on low UK state pensions, you may as well move into that prison cell size room now if the thai government want some of your already low pension

It is if it was purchased as an investment and sold as a gain.  A gain is also income - hence capital gains tax. 

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, atpeace said:

On paper the new regs are a definite concern especially for younger and unmarried retirees that have fewer means to reduce their tax bill vs the 65 up crowd.

Indeed. Do you know anything about the 20 million gift allowance to family members?

I'm thinking of going this route to exclude any tax payments.

[Mike Lister]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed. Do you know anything about the 20 million gift allowance to family members?

I'm thinking of going this route to exclude any tax payments.

https://sherrings.com/gift-tax-law-in-thailand.html

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

https://sherrings.com/gift-tax-law-in-thailand.html

Thanks. 

In your opinion, does this mean If I gift my kids at university in Thailand say 2 million baht a year, they will not have to pay tax on it?

[Mike Lister]

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Thanks. 

In your opinion, does this mean If I gift my kids at university in Thailand say 2 million baht a year, they will not have to pay tax on it?

We're not sure yet, it's the subject of research still. I'm pretty sure though that if you Gift me 2 million baht a year, your kids wont have to pay one satang in tax. :)

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

We're not sure yet, it's the subject of research still. I'm pretty sure though that if you Gift me 2 million baht a year, your kids wont have to pay one satang in tax. :)

🙂

I've just sent 1 kid 300,000 baht for 1 year Uni fees, from my UK bank, which is where I get my salary. Do I have to declare this? 

[spambot]

4 hours ago, atpeace said:

The concern is that almost 50% Americans,  myself included, pay little to no tax on their federal tax.  Most to many Americans through legal tax deductions/credits pay little to nothing for the first 50K dollars each year.  In Thailand that number is reduced to around $4kand theoretically retirees would have to pay taxes on the amount above 4k that was never taxed if brought into Thailand.  All this is a guessing came but interesting nonetheless. 

 

Very little concern on my end and doing things to reduce the risk.  For example, drawing down my 800k retire visa amount so I don't bring much money into the country this year seems wise?  We will have a better idea in the coming year but why take risks that can be avoided with little effort.  This is why this thread is interesting  - easy to plan for something with more info.

Can you just clarify a little more on what you have identified - "Most to many Americans through legal tax deductions/credits pay little to nothing for the first 50K dollars each year.  In Thailand that number is reduced to around $4kand theoretically retirees would have to pay taxes on the amount above 4k that was never taxed if brought into Thailand."

 

I am unfamiliar with US Federal Taxation and am not sure if the "legal tax deductions/credits" that you identify if they are simply Tax allowances or they belong to some other method. For example in the UK there are available personal allowance on earnings £12,570, savings interest allowance (approx.) £6,000, Dividends allowance £500 (April 2024), capital Gains allowance £3,000 (April 2024). Hence it would be theoretically possible up to £22,070 is taxed at 0%. This means that all the £22,070 has been taxed and would be allowable for DTA (if all allowances are observed by Thailand). 

 

Referring back to your post - If the first $50k is the equivalent to the UK £22,070 (taxed at 0%) isn't then in your example, the  tax free amount available to bring into Thailand without being taxed, $50K rather than $4k.

[Mike Lister]

21 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

🙂

I've just sent 1 kid 300,000 baht for 1 year Uni fees, from my UK bank, which is where I get my salary. Do I have to declare this? 

You are Thai are you not? If so, that 300k is part of your assessible income for the current tax year which should be declared on your tax return next January. But the final answer will depend on how much you transfer, from where, from what type of account and whether or not the total is over the threshold for filing a return once excluded non taxable income is deducted. I know, it sounds complicated, but it isn't really. Have you read the tax guide?

[Mike Lister]

22 minutes ago, spambot said:

Can you just clarify a little more on what you have identified - "Most to many Americans through legal tax deductions/credits pay little to nothing for the first 50K dollars each year.  In Thailand that number is reduced to around $4kand theoretically retirees would have to pay taxes on the amount above 4k that was never taxed if brought into Thailand."

 

I am unfamiliar with US Federal Taxation and am not sure if the "legal tax deductions/credits" that you identify if they are simply Tax allowances or they belong to some other method. For example in the UK there are available personal allowance on earnings £12,570, savings interest allowance (approx.) £6,000, Dividends allowance £500 (April 2024), capital Gains allowance £3,000 (April 2024). Hence it would be theoretically possible up to £22,070 is taxed at 0%. This means that all the £22,070 has been taxed and would be allowable for DTA (if all allowances are observed by Thailand). 

 

Referring back to your post - If the first $50k is the equivalent to the UK £22,070 (taxed at 0%) isn't then in your example, the  tax free amount available to bring into Thailand without being taxed, $50K rather than $4k.

I think you're getting way ahead of yourself with the available information at this time, it's nice theoretical stuff but not exactly practical at this stage..

[john donson]

thanks to kasikorn pretending my money does not exist in their system

as it was 10+ years ago

 

IF

I want to buy a condo here, I will have to send it to my home country and back

 

risking to be taxed 35% on this out / in    a big NO THANK YOU

[atpeace]

4 hours ago, spambot said:

Can you just clarify a little more on what you have identified - "Most to many Americans through legal tax deductions/credits pay little to nothing for the first 50K dollars each year...

 

Referring back to your post - If the first $50k is the equivalent to the UK £22,070 (taxed at 0%) isn't then in your example, the  tax free amount available to bring into Thailand without being taxed, $50K rather than $4k.

Roughly 40% of Americans don't pay federal taxes.  Why ? I don't know exactly or really care 🙂

 

Sorry - I don't understand your second question.  Had a couple drinks with the wife so probably me. 

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, john donson said:

thanks to kasikorn pretending my money does not exist in their system

as it was 10+ years ago

 

IF

I want to buy a condo here, I will have to send it to my home country and back

 

risking to be taxed 35% on this out / in    a big NO THANK YOU

If you ask them, they will make that transfer on paper only, for a fee.

[Psychic]

On 2/11/2024 at 3:50 AM, Mike Lister said:

The basic principle is that everyone pays tax somewhere so as long as you've done that and you try to import funds into Thailand where tax has already been paid  in the home country, Thailand is unlikely to make any  further tax demand on you. That said, there will almost certainly be examples where the difference in the tax rates between the two countries, COULD lead to additional tax being due here but for the most part, those will be anomalies. 

 

The target for this tax rule is people who invest offshore and repatriate their earnings without paying tax anywhere. Another group is those who work here online and because they are remote workers, get paid in Thailand but are untaxed....and similar. Everyday people with savings and a home and a few investments, are not the target and are not going to be of interest to the RD. 

How far would "tax already paid in the home country" extend?

For instance a sizeable inheritance goes through probate court (in Canada).

The probate tax rate is only 1.8% with no further taxes on the beneficiary.

Could this be judged as funds that are already taxed?

Or would bringing a large lump sum be hit with 30-35% Thai taxes?

 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Psychic said:

How far would "tax already paid in the home country" extend?

For instance a sizeable inheritance goes through probate court (in Canada).

The probate tax rate is only 1.8% with no further taxes on the beneficiary.

Could this be judged as funds that are already taxed?

Or would bringing a large lump sum be hit with 30-35% Thai taxes?

 

Tax paid in the home country is used to offset any tax liability in Thailand, it's an offset only, not a get out of jail free card.

[jacko45k]

22 hours ago, JimGant said:

Yeah, I had to pay 50,000 baht for my LTR visa

You paid 10 years up front, that's a mugs game. If you die after 2-3 years it is money wasted!

[Psychic]

45 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Tax paid in the home country is used to offset any tax liability in Thailand, it's an offset only, not a get out of jail free card.

So since the Thai tax on inheritance is zero up to 100 million baht (approximately $4 million Canadian) there would be no tax payable  on that?

Just trying to determine if they would use similar rules on the same thing from abroad.

• Applying the Tax Rate

  Once the net value of the estate is determined, the appropriate tax rate is applied. If the estate's net value is not over 100 million baht, no estate or inheritance tax is due. However, if the estate's net value is above the threshold, a 5% tax rate is applied.

"

[Mike Lister]

58 minutes ago, Psychic said:

So since the Thai tax on inheritance is zero up to 100 million baht (approximately $4 million Canadian) there would be no tax payable  on that?

Just trying to determine if they would use similar rules on the same thing from abroad.

• Applying the Tax Rate

  Once the net value of the estate is determined, the appropriate tax rate is applied. If the estate's net value is not over 100 million baht, no estate or inheritance tax is due. However, if the estate's net value is above the threshold, a 5% tax rate is applied.

"

I understand inheritance is tax free

[UKresonant]

Just now, Psychic said:

So since the Thai tax on inheritance is zero up to 100 million baht (approximately $4 million Canadian) there would be no tax payable  on that?

Just trying to determine if they would use similar rules on the same thing from abroad.

• Applying the Tax Rate

  Once the net value of the estate is determined, the appropriate tax rate is applied. If the estate's net value is not over 100 million baht, no estate or inheritance tax is due. However, if the estate's net value is above the threshold, a 5% tax rate is applied.

"

Would page 20 Chapter V item 1 perhaps suggest it would be the same treatment?

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/canada_e.pdf

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

You paid 10 years up front, that's a mugs game. If you die after 2-3 years it is money wasted!

 

Golly, I hadn't thought of that.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

On 2/12/2024 at 11:19 AM, Ben Zioner said:

No need for that, just show them you pension statement and health insurance, pay the 50k and off you go

Is there any room for negotiation when it comes to obtaining a ('wealthy pensioner') LTR visa?

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

Is there any room for negotiation when it comes to obtaining a ('wealthy pensioner') LTR visa?

The terms of all the available visa's issued by Immigration are pretty clear and are not negotiable! Certain visa agents may however be able to point you at products that may better suit your needs. 

[UKresonant]

Out of curiosity, Unknowns?

 

Once you complete a successful Thai Tax tax filing, what do they then give you as proof of the outcome, is it like a UK P60 detail, Total income and tax deducted etc.? (and does it show the computation).

 

Alternatively if they say you don't need to file, when you thought you did, if you deal with another officer, or office the following year, how would you field the question if ask why you did not file the previous year? If they then are of the opinion you should have.

[Ben Zioner]

14 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

Is there any room for negotiation when it comes to obtaining a ('wealthy pensioner') LTR visa?

I think so, in the definition of unearned income and the composition of the 250000 USD investment for those who don't meet the pension requirement. But can't say anything for sure as I don't have the first hand experience having gotten the visa on the base of my pension only.

 

I think @Misty , @Pib or @oldcpu could be more helpful.

[Mike Lister]

Perhaps the poster should be more clear about his definition of "negotiable" in this context.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Perhaps the poster should be more clear about his definition of "negotiable" in this context.

Well, Ben didn't mention the requirement purchasing government bonds.

[Pib]

30 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

Is there any room for negotiation when it comes to obtaining a ('wealthy pensioner') LTR visa?

To keep from going off topic of this thread it's probably best to ask your question over in the main LTR Visa thread.   And be sure further define what you mean by "negotiation"....like maybe falling a little short of the income requirement, different ways/types of income to meet the income requirement, how to meet the health insurance requirement, etc.   The LTR visa program does offer "flexibility" in different ways to meet the various requirements.  The BOI LTR visa webpage does a good job in laying out the requirements so be sure to review it first....especially under the About and the Application Process menus.