rattlesnake Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 7 hours ago, frank83628 said: he says while simultaneously deflecting form who killed Epstein and covering for the elites....and for the record...nothing 'indirectly ' about it, i support Putin 100%, he is a far greater leader than any of the current western ones. Absolutely, as demonstrated by the fact that he is supported by over 80% of Russians. In January 2024, over eight out of ten percent of Russians approved of the activities of the Russian President Vladimir Putin. https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/#:~:text=In January 2024%2C over eight,partial mobilization in the country. Putin's approval rating up to 85% in November, Russians happy with the country's direction https://www.intellinews.com/putin-s-approval-rating-up-to-85-in-november-russians-happy-with-the-country-s-direction-303876/ Edited February 21 by rattlesnake 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rattlesnake Posted February 21 Popular Post Share Posted February 21 2 hours ago, bendejo said: Yeah, South America had this same idea for their continent, Hugo Chavez was a big proponent. A person needn't be an economist or political wonk to immediately see it's going to be a bunch of kleptocrats picking each other's pockets. There is also a certain amount of animosity between the countries of Latin America that you will rarely see expressed in any sort of media, save for futbal matches. Chavez bought out Argentina's debt in the '00s and he became a hero in that country. A few years later Chavez died and Arg. piled up yet another Everest of debt. Talk is back again for Arg. and Brazil to have a common currency. Governments and political situations aside, there is no love lost between the people of both countries. I've spent enough time in either country to have heard the denouncements on either side. With the fall of the US being seen as a real possibility I would think any of these ideas would be re-assessed in light of who would be the next economic world power. I think it is this concept of one "economic world power" which is disappearing (even if the Western political and media establishment pretend it isn't), as outlined by Putin's speech at the BRICS summit last August: All of us here are proponents of a new multipolar world order with a genuine balance of interests and taking into consideration the sovereign interests of as many countries as possible, while enabling them to follow their own development models and helping them preserve their diverse national cultures and traditions. It is obvious, however, that the emergence of a new world order, which is an objective process, has its fierce opponents who are seeking to stall this process and avert the emergence of new, independent centres of development and power around the world. http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/72096 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattlesnake Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 17 hours ago, heybruce said: The old "I'm not going to provide sources for my claims, I'm going to tell you to do the research yourself" dodge. Why don't you provide a couple of pertinent quotes from your recommended sources showing "defense contractors are encouraging military interventions"? Something from this century, or perhaps the late 20th century, would be more pertinent to current circumstances. I have provided references to four fundamental and universally recognised books on the matter, anyone is free to do their own research on them and read them to develop their knowledge and understanding. This topic is far too complex to be illustrated with single, all-encompassing quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattlesnake Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 21 hours ago, rabas said: You missed the heart of capitalism, R&D, which leads to vast global production of useful products and services. The US spends nearly $700 billion on R&D each year, [ref] almost 20 times more than Putin's Russia. Per capita, Thailand outspends Russia on R&D by almost 20%. R&D, my background, is a form of speculation. Sorry to mention Russia, just trying to get back on topic. Yes, but what I was referring to when I mentioned speculation-based capitalism were the subsequent layers of financial instruments (such as the credit default swaps invented by Blythe Masters) which consist in creating money out of thin air. Debt is the root of all problems and in this respect, Putin did pretty well after taking over a country left in bad shape by Yeltsin's pro-Western policies. A reminder from 2005: Russia pays off IMF debt early On January 31, Russia ceased being one of the IMF’s five largest debtor countries when it repaid its remaining $3.33 billion debt. https://www.elibrary.imf.org/view/journals/023/0034/002/article-A004-en.xml 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post heybruce Posted February 22 Popular Post Share Posted February 22 9 hours ago, rattlesnake said: I have provided references to four fundamental and universally recognised books on the matter, anyone is free to do their own research on them and read them to develop their knowledge and understanding. This topic is far too complex to be illustrated with single, all-encompassing quotes. In other words, you can provide no examples of "defense contractors are encouraging military interventions" as you claimed in your earlier post. Got it. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On 2/21/2024 at 8:57 AM, RuamRudy said: from behind his 30ft long table. The Tucker Carlson "interview" was from a very short table. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post candide Posted February 22 Popular Post Share Posted February 22 9 hours ago, rattlesnake said: Yes, but what I was referring to when I mentioned speculation-based capitalism were the subsequent layers of financial instruments (such as the credit default swaps invented by Blythe Masters) which consist in creating money out of thin air. Debt is the root of all problems and in this respect, Putin did pretty well after taking over a country left in bad shape by Yeltsin's pro-Western policies. A reminder from 2005: Russia pays off IMF debt early On January 31, Russia ceased being one of the IMF’s five largest debtor countries when it repaid its remaining $3.33 billion debt. https://www.elibrary.imf.org/view/journals/023/0034/002/article-A004-en.xml Right. Putin only failed to grow his country's GDP per capita between 2013 and 2022. Russia is an economic dwarf, Putin failed to develop the Russian economy. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, candide said: Putin failed to develop the Russian economy. But strangely its doing better than predicted even after the illegal sanctions imposed by the good ole USA 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, johng said: But strangely its doing better than predicted even after the illegal sanctions imposed by the good ole USA Right, it has been quite resilient so far. It doesn't change the fact that Russia's GDP is only at around Italy's level and did not grow between 2013 and 2022. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/gdp-gross-domestic-product 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, johng said: But strangely its doing better than predicted even after the illegal sanctions imposed by the good ole USA If you are going to take a portion of a post out of context (and add a period so it looks like the sentence fragment quoted was a complete sentence) you shouldn't do so immediately after the post you are misrepresenting. It's too easy to spot the BS. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, heybruce said: It's too easy to spot the BS. As you can (not) see I've given you a confused emoji I quoted a snippet for brevity and didn't add a period. The Russian economy is doing better than expected despite the illegal USA sanctions where is the BS in that statement. Even the person I was replying to says. 1 hour ago, candide said: Right, it has been quite resilient so far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 13 minutes ago, johng said: As you can (not) see I've given you a confused emoji I quoted a snippet for brevity and didn't add a period. The Russian economy is doing better than expected despite the illegal USA sanctions where is the BS in that statement. Even the person I was replying to says. You are correct about the period, I posted in haste. Sorry. However the point of Candide's post was that Putin had the people, resources and opportunity to make Russia into a prosperous first world economy, and instead made it into a commodities dependent kleptocracy. It remains to be seen how long the current China dependent war economy can last, or what China intends do seek in return for its support. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post candide Posted February 22 Popular Post Share Posted February 22 17 minutes ago, johng said: As you can (not) see I've given you a confused emoji I quoted a snippet for brevity and didn't add a period. The Russian economy is doing better than expected despite the illegal USA sanctions where is the BS in that statement. Even the person I was replying to says. "Illegal sanctions"? What about the illegal war started by Putin? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, heybruce said: make Russia into a prosperous first world economy, and instead made it into a commodities dependent kleptocracy. It can become a prosperous economy using its commodities which are in demand worldwide. IMHO first world economies reliant on fractional reserve banking, ponzi scheme stock markets and a vote that means virtually nothing as there is no difference between the candidates are no better than a kleptocracy anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, candide said: "Illegal sanctions"? What about the illegal war started by Putin? What about the illegal wars started by Bush,O-bomber and Brandon ? The sanctions are illegal because the USA just arbitrarily impose them on any one or country they deem fit, coerce other countries to follow and threaten those who don't 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 35 minutes ago, johng said: What about the illegal wars started by Bush,O-bomber and Brandon ? The sanctions are illegal because the USA just arbitrarily impose them on any one or country they deem fit, coerce other countries to follow and threaten those who don't I agree with you about the war in Irak. However I don't know about "Brandon" having started a war. Could the sanctions be considered as illegal? That can be discussed. However, it's certainly a pale sin compared to a country coercing another country by invading it and bombing its population. If one cannot even invade another country without being sanctioned.... 😀 Edited February 22 by candide 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 32 minutes ago, johng said: It can become a prosperous economy using its commodities which are in demand worldwide. IMHO first world economies reliant on fractional reserve banking, ponzi scheme stock markets and a vote that means virtually nothing as there is no difference between the candidates are no better than a kleptocracy anyway. It "can", except that it didn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, candide said: coercing another country by invading it and bombing its population. Iraq,Afghanistan,Libya,Syria, Palestine, to name a few. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post candide Posted February 22 Popular Post Share Posted February 22 Just now, johng said: Iraq,Afghanistan,Libya,Syria, Palestine, to name a few. How does it exonerate Putin? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 52 minutes ago, johng said: It can become a prosperous economy using its commodities which are in demand worldwide. IMHO first world economies reliant on fractional reserve banking, ponzi scheme stock markets and a vote that means virtually nothing as there is no difference between the candidates are no better than a kleptocracy anyway. IMHO you have no concept about how the modern economy works. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 I am no fan of Putin, no one gets' to this level of play in Russian politics , and stay there without carrying some sharp knives, I don't doubt that someone killed Navalny but I don't think Putin was directly involved. I say directly because He did put him there and as such , among other things put him in in an vulnerable position. The reason why I don't think Putin was directly involved is, why would he do this at this time? Navalny was effectively naturalized, and as far as know presented no significant danger to Putin. On the other hand he must have known that the mysterious death of his political opponent while in jail as a political prisoner would have negative consequences for him. So why have him killed now? What would he have to gain? and what would he have to lose? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 8 minutes ago, sirineou said: I am no fan of Putin, no one gets' to this level of play in Russian politics , and stay there without carrying some sharp knives, I don't doubt that someone killed Navalny but I don't think Putin was directly involved. I say directly because He did put him there and as such , among other things put him in in an vulnerable position. The reason why I don't think Putin was directly involved is, why would he do this at this time? Navalny was effectively naturalized, and as far as know presented no significant danger to Putin. On the other hand he must have known that the mysterious death of his political opponent while in jail as a political prisoner would have negative consequences for him. So why have him killed now? What would he have to gain? and what would he have to lose? You are assuming that Putin always reacts rationally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rabas Posted February 22 Popular Post Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, johng said: It can become a prosperous economy using its commodities which are in demand worldwide. IMHO first world economies reliant on fractional reserve banking, ponzi scheme stock markets and a vote that means virtually nothing as there is no difference between the candidates are no better than a kleptocracy anyway. Why isn't it? Because Putin... Putin took a perfectly failed state, the USSR, and ruined it. They can't even win a war because of so much corruption. Putin's unstoppable missiles keep getting shot down, his impenetrable air defense systems keep getting penetrated. [watch Putin]. As for your Ponsi scheme sound byte, the US far exceeds Russia in oil production, now 13M to 9.5M bbl/day. Natural gas by even more. I already mentioned the golden economic goose, R&D, where no.1 US far exceeds Russia by a whopping 20 times. Why? Putin. He locks up scientists because he doesn't trust them. Russia's hallowed space program? Far behind and falling. Why? You got it, Putin. Corruption. In 2023 Russia is now 5th worldwide in launched objects, 30 times behind the US. [ref] Your ponzi scheme US launched 81% of all the world's satellites. I too would love to see a strong, free Russia. Best thing for the world. Would you join me in calling for a Putin free Russia so that it can happen? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 3 hours ago, candide said: How does it exonerate Putin? It doesn't "they" are all about the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Just now, johng said: It doesn't "they" are all about the same. Is invading a country in order to annex it (or part of it) the same as the examples you give? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_Money Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) Business as usual in Russia. History repeats itself. Czar, Lenin, Stalin no different along with Marcos, Saddam, Shah and others just to name a few. Why is anyone surprised. Not only Russia. Many third world countries leaders take away their political threats. Nothing new. Dorothy, we’re not in Kansas anymore. Edited February 22 by G_Money 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, rabas said: Putin took a perfectly failed state, the USSR, and ruined it perfectly failed ? seems to me it couldn't get worse..so how come the economy is doing better than expected ? 1 hour ago, rabas said: the US far exceeds Russia in oil production, now 13M to 9.5M bbl/day. Natural gas by even more So how come the price in USA is higher than in Russia 1 hour ago, rabas said: He locks up scientists because he doesn't trust them. Really ? I haven't read anything about that 1 hour ago, rabas said: Russia's hallowed space program? US was dependent on Russian launches for a long time after the shuttle disasters. 1 hour ago, rabas said: I too would love to see a strong, free Russia. Best thing for the world. Would you join me in calling for a Putin free Russia so that it can happen? The Russian people should and will decide that of their own accord not by the meddling of uncle sam's CIA 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 16 minutes ago, candide said: Is invading a country in order to annex it (or part of it) the same as the examples you give? I mean the "leaders" of countries are all about the same they also invade or wage economic war on other countries but seem to get a free reign to do so whilst others are demonised I'm saying that it's hypocritical to criticise Putin but not all the others who do (have done) exactly the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_Money Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Maybe he p—-ed off the shot caller in prison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabas Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 34 minutes ago, johng said: 2 hours ago, rabas said: He locks up scientists because he doesn't trust them. Really ? I haven't read anything about that MT Russian Nuclear Scientist Jailed 9 Years for Treason Jun 21 2023 Newsweek Russia Jailed Over a Dozen Rocket Scientists on Treason Dec 18 2023 Chemistry World Exodus of scientists from Russia has passed 50,000 since 2018 as more pack their bags to go 8 Jun 2023 Novaya Gazeta Russia is waging a war against its own scientists: special services are searching for traitors among prominent and elderly physicists. Not all of them live to hear the verdict BI India 3 scientists behind Putin's 'unstoppable' missiles were jailed on charges of treason. Russian researchers say they are now living in fear. Science Russian scientist facing treason charges dies in custody Advocates say state’s zeal for arrests has destroyed the lives of researchers July 15 2022 Many more. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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