Despite U.S. pressure, the idea of a Palestinian state seems farther away than ever

[ezzra]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Rubbish. I have myself offered solutions. I suppose you missed them or have me on ignore.

 

Two state solution enforced by a proper military prepared to take on the israelis if they attack the West Bank. A military NOT controlled by either israel or the US ( or Britain for that matter ).

 

There is also at least one other poster that has offered similar solutions but I suppose you missed them as well.

You and many others are deluding themselves that a long lasting and fair solution can be found where everyone is satisfied,

not while a dozen other countries will agree to owing to their own agendas,

We all know that the Palestinians are nothing but a pawns in the hands of those other countries and powers

and that Hamas and other terrorist groups will not stop for one moment to re-arm themselves for the next round...

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, ezzra said:

You and many others are deluding themselves that a long lasting and fair solution can be found where everyone is satisfied,

not while a dozen other countries will agree to owing to their own agendas,

We all know that the Palestinians are nothing but a pawns in the hands of those other countries and powers

and that Hamas and other terrorist groups will not stop for one moment to re-arm themselves for the next round...

Before we say it won't work should we not at least see if a two state solution works? A proper state after all the illegal israeli settlers have been sent back to israel, a free state, without israeli control and freedom of movement just like every other free state on the planet.

 

The forced subjugation of the Palestinians hasn't worked for the past 70 years, and it's not going to work in the next 70 years, so let's try something new. You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

We all know that the Palestinians are nothing but a pawns in the hands of those other countries and powers

On that I agree with you 100%.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

34 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Rubbish. I have myself offered solutions. I suppose you missed them or have me on ignore.

 

Two state solution enforced by a proper military prepared to take on the israelis if they attack the West Bank. A military NOT controlled by either israel or the US ( or Britain for that matter ).

 

There is also at least one other poster that has offered similar solutions but I suppose you missed them as well.

I suppose you missed them or have me on ignore.

 

[ezzra]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Before we say it won't work should we not at least see if a two state solution works? A proper state after all the illegal israeli settlers have been sent back to israel, a free state, without israeli control and freedom of movement just like every other free state on the planet.

 

The forced subjugation of the Palestinians hasn't worked for the past 70 years, and it's not going to work in the next 70 years, so let's try something new. You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

We all know that the Palestinians are nothing but a pawns in the hands of those other countries and powers

On that I agree with you 100%.

 

 

Do you think for one moment that there was a fair solution Israel wouldn't have tried it already? Israel want peace and

quite more than anyone else, is just like i said before, the Palestinians want a lot more than what Israel can give without

sacrificing their security, secondly, those external powers that armed and supported the Palestinians so far will also want

their pound of flesh otherwise why have they wasted all their efforts for nothing,

So unless EVERYBODY IS HAPPY, no lasting peace will be possible, no matter who's right or who's wrong... 

[Nick Carter icp]

10 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I don't know all the details of the orders. I'm not a military specialist. But I assume they would search through the territory that the violations had emmenated from and engage with any militants they find there. Again, I'm not an expert in this area, but I'd assume the UN Peacekeepers would not fire on anyone, even in a situation like this, who did not fire on them first.
The UN Peacekeeping force would not have the objective of conquering the entire territory and all the population or take revenge. They would only be after any militants who violated the treaty, and they would accept individual militant's or groups of militants' surrender. Their objective would not be to kill them all.

Also, everything I said above would be applied to actions against the IDF if individuals or groups of them renewed their attacks.

 

  It has been explained to you  numerous times. I have read those replies myself, that the U.N peacekeepers do not carry weapons other than for personal use and they done engage in fighting, they just stand in the middle making sure the two sides keep apart .

   How can I have a discussion  with you, when you keep making the same points , even after your original point has been shown to be invalid  .

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  It has been explained to you  numerous times. I have read those replies myself, that the U.N peacekeepers do not carry weapons other than for personal use and they done engage in fighting, they just stand in the middle making sure the two sides keep apart .

   How can I have a discussion  with you, when you keep making the same points , even after your original point has been shown to be invalid  .

 

By way of clarification UN Peacekeepers can utilise their weapons to protect their mandate. Personally I cannot think of a country which would agree to send the military to Gaza acceptable to all parties.

 

https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/principles-of-peacekeeping#:~:text=3.-,Non-use of force except in self-defence and defence,and defence of the mandate.

[WDSmart]

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  It has been explained to you  numerous times. I have read those replies myself, that the U.N peacekeepers do not carry weapons other than for personal use and they done engage in fighting, they just stand in the middle making sure the two sides keep apart .

   How can I have a discussion  with you, when you keep making the same points , even after your original point has been shown to be invalid  .

My previous points have not been shown to be invalid. I have read here that UN Peacekeepers have not enforced their peacekeeping duties by force in the past. What I am suggesting is that this time, they do. I've also said they might not be UN Peacekeepers but some other third-party peacekeepers. I see no other way this will end, or at least will be halted for now. Neither side will voluntarily give up their claim to this land.

What I see is you continuing to insist that this conflict is unresolvable. Maybe that's so, but there are still things that could be done to try to, if not "resolve" it, at least end the military nature of it.

Since we're "discussing" this, what are your suggestions on how to deal with this situation as it exists right now?

 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

Do you think for one moment that there was a fair solution Israel wouldn't have tried it already? Israel want peace and

quite more than anyone else, is just like i said before, the Palestinians want a lot more than what Israel can give without

sacrificing their security, secondly, those external powers that armed and supported the Palestinians so far will also want

their pound of flesh otherwise why have they wasted all their efforts for nothing,

So unless EVERYBODY IS HAPPY, no lasting peace will be possible, no matter who's right or who's wrong... 

 

The fair solution wad to create 2 states from the outset. Failing that, a single state with a multinational occupying force to keep the peace.

 

What logic says Israel should have the illegal settlements. How are they NOT able to give that back?

[Nick Carter icp]

27 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

My previous points have not been shown to be invalid. I have read here that UN Peacekeepers have not enforced their peacekeeping duties by force in the past. What I am suggesting is that this time, they do. I've also said they might not be UN Peacekeepers but some other third-party peacekeepers. I see no other way this will end, or at least will be halted for now. Neither side will voluntarily give up their claim to this land.

What I see is you continuing to insist that this conflict is unresolvable. Maybe that's so, but there are still things that could be done to try to, if not "resolve" it, at least end the military nature of it.

Since we're "discussing" this, what are your suggestions on how to deal with this situation as it exists right now?

 

 

   You need to trad rather carefully, as you are sort of suggesting a World Army be formed to fight against the Jews .

[metisdead]

A post with a video from an unapproved social media source contravening our Community Standards has been removed.  Please remember social media cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or a government agency.

[WDSmart]

11 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   You need to trad rather carefully, as you are sort of suggesting a World Army be formed to fight against the Jews .

I am not suggesting a "...World Army be formed to fight against the Jews." I'm suggesting a multi-lateral peacekeeping force (you can call that a "World Army" if you wish) be put in place to enforce a ceasefire/hostage-return/two-state solution to this conflict. This "World Army" would take whatever actions that were necessary against either side that violates the agreement, not just "Jews" (Israel/IDF) only. 

And, I ask again, what would be your suggested solution?

[ozimoron]

Somebody previously mentioned that the Hamas charter was to wipe out Israel. When makign such a claim it should also be noted that the stated mission of zionists and the likud party is to permanently deny a Palestinian state and claim all the land for Israel, thereby forcing all Palestinians from the land(s) or forcing them to live under an apartheid regime. Both claims are true.

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I am not suggesting a "...World Army be formed to fight against the Jews." I'm suggesting a multi-lateral peacekeeping force (you can call that a "World Army" if you wish) be put in place to enforce a ceasefire/hostage-return/two-state solution to this conflict. This "World Army" would take whatever actions that were necessary against either side that violates the agreement, not just "Jews" (Israel/IDF) only. 

And, I ask again, what would be your suggested solution?

 

  So you are suggesting there be a World army to fight against the Jews and the Palestinians . as the Jews are currently winning this war, it wouldn't be long before the World Army began fighting against the Jews

[WDSmart]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  So you are suggesting there be a World army to fight against the Jews and the Palestinians . as the Jews are currently winning this war, it wouldn't be long before the World Army began fighting against the Jews

So I ask AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN, what would be your suggested solution?

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

So I ask AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN, what would be your suggested solution?

 

They will never say it because it means supporting the zionist ideal. Just the same as they will not say they believe any number of dead civilians is appropriate to achieve the goal to wipe out Hamas.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

So I ask AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN, what would be your suggested solution?

 

  Stop asking , You asked once and I didn't answer . 

Accept that and move on and stop asking the same question 

[Jeff the Chef]

For a start, both sides should comply with all UN mandates.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

So I ask AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN, what would be your suggested solution?

These people have no solution, they just want all the land at any cost. They think as they have the US making their bombs they are untouchable. 

I find it unbelievable that there are still some left here supporting Israel, especially if they are not Israeli. Any supporter with an ounce if integrity stopped supporting Israel months ago. And to do it on a public forum 🤔

[ozimoron]

Israel is facing growing international pressure for an investigation after more than 100 Palestinians in Gaza were killed when desperate crowds gathered around aid trucks and Israeli troops opened fire on Thursday.

 

Israel said people died in a crush or were run over by aid lorries although it admitted its troops had opened fire on what it called a “mob”. But the head of a hospital in Gaza said 80% of injured people brought in had gunshot wounds.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/01/france-demands-investigation-palestinians-killed-aid-delivery-gaza

[Bkk Brian]

Sometimes there are no immediate solutions when both sides just don't want them. Doomed to fail if its imposed on them unless they both agree to it. Hamas don't want it, majority of Palestinians don't want it same as Israeli's. The US leadership may change as will the Israeli leadership in the not too distant future. Its going to be a hard enough task to bring some sort of peace now and that cannot start till all hostages are released.

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

43 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

For a start, both sides should comply with all UN mandates.

 

   And until the Palestinians comply with their requirements, why should the Israelis comply with theirs ?

  Until the hostages are released , why should Israel comply with what they were asked to do ?

[Jeff the Chef]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   And until the Palestinians comply with their requirements, why should the Israelis comply with theirs ?

  Until the hostages are released , why should Israel comply with what they were asked to do ?

Yes, lets agree Hamas must release the hostages taken on the 7th, as soon as Israel comply with all UN mandates/resolutions.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Yes, lets agree Hamas must release the hostages taken on the 7th, as soon as Israel comply with all UN mandates/resolutions.

You are making up conditions that do not even exist in these talks and this current war. Why?

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, Jeff the Chef said:

Yes, lets agree Hamas must release the hostages taken on the 7th, as soon as Israel comply with all UN mandates/resolutions.

 

   The ICJ ruling was that Hamas must release all the hostages immediately unconditionally , the ruling didn't sat they must release the hostages if Israel done anything .

   Immediately and Unconditionally 

[WDSmart]

12 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Sometimes there are no immediate solutions when both sides just don't want them. Doomed to fail if its imposed on them unless they both agree to it. Hamas don't want it, majority of Palestinians don't want it same as Israeli's. The US leadership may change as will the Israeli leadership in the not too distant future. Its going to be a hard enough task to bring some sort of peace now and that cannot start till all hostages are released.

 

 

"The US leadership may change as will the Israeli leadership in the not too distant future."
I certainly hope not, and for reasons more important to me than Israel or Palestine.

"Its going to be a hard enough task to bring some sort of peace now and that cannot start till all hostages are released."
I don't see ALL hostages being released until after a PERMANENT ceasefire, which, of course, will have to be enforced by some third party.

[Neeranam]

36 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Israel is facing growing international pressure for an investigation after more than 100 Palestinians in Gaza were killed when desperate crowds gathered around aid trucks and Israeli troops opened fire on Thursday.

 

Israel said people died in a crush or were run over by aid lorries although it admitted its troops had opened fire on what it called a “mob”. But the head of a hospital in Gaza said 80% of injured people brought in had gunshot wounds.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/01/france-demands-investigation-palestinians-killed-aid-delivery-gaza

Interesting no Zionist here has tried defending that slaughter. 

Interesting that this atrocity has not been given a thread here.

[James105]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

"The US leadership may change as will the Israeli leadership in the not too distant future."
I certainly hope not, and for reasons more important to me than Israel or Palestine.

"Its going to be a hard enough task to bring some sort of peace now and that cannot start till all hostages are released."
I don't see ALL hostages being released until after a PERMANENT ceasefire, which, of course, will have to be enforced by some third party.

 

These are civilian hostages, not prisoners of war. They should be released unconditionally and immediately as it is an ongoing war crime to keep them captive.  The poor women are no doubt being raped by the vile creatures that took them from their homes, and the disposable gender will no doubt have suffered various forms torture.  

 

A ceasefire will be seen as a victory for Hamas, an opportunity to regroup and re-arm so they can inflict further atrocities on Isreal.  

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Interesting no Zionist here has tried defending that slaughter. 

Interesting that this atrocity has not been given a thread here.

You can start a thread any time, chap, go for it..................

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, ezzra said:

Do you think for one moment that there was a fair solution Israel wouldn't have tried it already? Israel want peace and

quite more than anyone else, is just like i said before, the Palestinians want a lot more than what Israel can give without

sacrificing their security, secondly, those external powers that armed and supported the Palestinians so far will also want

their pound of flesh otherwise why have they wasted all their efforts for nothing,

So unless EVERYBODY IS HAPPY, no lasting peace will be possible, no matter who's right or who's wrong... 

Do you condone what Israel are doing, for example shooting at large crowds desperate for food this week?

While you are obviously biased, being Israeli, and I'm not blaming you, both sides are responsible for peace and the establishment of a two-state solution, violations and breaches have occurred on both sides. Blaming one party while absolving the other of any wrongdoing only perpetuates the cycle of violence and hinders the prospects for a just and lasting resolution to the conflict.

Here are examples of instances where Israel also breached agreements:

Settlement Expansion: Despite commitments to freeze settlement construction in the occupied territories, Israel has consistently expanded its settlements, which are considered illegal under international law. These actions undermine the territorial integrity and viability of a future Palestinian state.

Military Actions: Israel has conducted military operations in Gaza and the West Bank, resulting in civilian casualties and infrastructure damage. While Israel often cites security concerns, the scale and intensity of these operations have raised international concerns about proportionality and adherence to humanitarian law.

Resource Control: Israel maintains control over key resources such as water and land in the occupied territories, limiting Palestinian access and development. This control exacerbates economic disparities and impedes the establishment of a viable Palestinian state.

Jerusalem Status: The status of Jerusalem remains a contentious issue in negotiations. Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem and its declaration of Jerusalem as its capital have been widely criticized by the international community and undermine efforts to reach a negotiated settlement.

Blockades and Restrictions: Israel imposes restrictions on the movement of goods and people in and out of the Gaza Strip, exacerbating humanitarian conditions and hindering economic development. The blockade has been described by human rights organizations as a form of collective punishment against the civilian population.

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

These are civilian hostages, not prisoners of war. They should be released unconditionally and immediately as it is an ongoing war crime to keep them captive.  The poor women are no doubt being raped by the vile creatures that took them from their homes, and the disposable gender will no doubt have suffered various forms torture.  

 

A ceasefire will be seen as a victory for Hamas, an opportunity to regroup and re-arm so they can inflict further atrocities on Isreal.  

One man's 'vile creatures' are another man's 'freedom fighters'.