Jump to content

Options for 16 year old Thai to own property ?


Recommended Posts

My daughter is 16 and there is a condo which is held in a Thai name which she would like to buy. She has dual Thai and UK citizenship and her mother is Thai.

 

I would prefer that her mother does not have anything to do with the property or even knows about it but I do not know whether this can be done ?

 

My presumption is that there must be a way because what if the mother was dead and there was no Thai relative ?

 

We are not interested in any other form of ownership, such as a company or foreign quota etc.

I also read that various land offices have "different interpretations" so for the record, this one would be a property in Jomtien, Pattaya.

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, ripstanley said:

Go and visit your local office and ask them. When my ex wife and I separated the car I drive was in her name. She transferred it to my  9 year old son. This was allowed. You will get a lot of advice but it will be up to your local office to make the final decision. Good luck

 

I'm not in Thailand right now but my experience of Thai bureaucracy is never to ask them what interpretation they would like but to know what they should do and then present the case.

I can see a high percentage of land offices simply going down the "cannot, need Thai person" nonsense because they either don't know, don't care or are trying to preserve the ability of a Thai to screw over a foreigner somehow.

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Robert Thailand said:

In Thailand there are restrictions when it comes to minors (those, under 20 years old) owning or buying property. According to the Thai Civil and Commercial Code minors are not considered capable of engaging in transactions and any agreements made by a minor require the consent of their legal representative – typically a parent or guardian.

 

Typically if a minor wants to purchase property they would need consent from their representative. In your daughters case this would usually involve her parents or guardian. Unless you have full and sole parental powers, the mother will have to sign. And remember that Pattaya = tea money.

 

In cases where the mother's deceased and no Thai relatives are available a legal guardian or an executor appointed by the court or through a will would be responsible, for making decisions regarding matters. But I doubt this is the case.
 

Even though laws are nationwide local land offices in places like Jomtien, Pattaya may have some leeway in how they interpret and implement rules especially regarding matters. It's important to reach out to the land office in that area to grasp their protocols and prerequisites. Like you say : Thai bureaucracy and they love tea ($) in Pattaya. 

 

Considering your wish to exclude the mother and the complexities of a buying a condo, in Thailand it's highly advisable to consult with a lawyer specializing in Thai property and family law. They can guide you through guardianship issues, purchasing procedures and ensure your daughters interests are well looked after and legally protected.Verify with the mother. Maybe she will agree. And verify with the land department too. Or wait 4 years, put it on your daughter and make a usufruct to you. That can't be done by a child (1574 of Civil Code)
 

 

As already said (and it's true) local lans office chiefs have differing opinions on subject like this and they apply their opinions rather than the actual written law (e.g. the Thai Commercial code.

 

Here's a twist, my Thai son owns a double block and 5 bed house in a fairly new moo Baan in Chiang Mai.

 

Had his 4th child and decided it was time to rewrite his will, before doing so he had long focused discussions with his thai wife who is very logical and balanced and agree that the will should be focused on the best deal for their children.

 

The lawyer (and old Thai friend, and my old student when she did her executive MBA) listened to their wishes for the dispersal of son's assets. In a nut shell my son wanted 'all my land and buildings are bequeathed totally equally to all of my children'. Son's wife agreed with this and even offered to write a letter saying she agreed and proposed to have it signed / witnessed and attache dto her husbands (my son's) will.

 

Lawyer checked that she understood then went to visit the Land office chief. He indicated that by law on son's demise if any / all of the children can be recorded as joint/equal owners of the land/houses in their own names regardless of whether they have reached the age of majority.

 

He also mentioned it was possible to wait until one or all of the children reach the age of majority then change the owner names on the chanut.

 

Lawyer also mentioned that, in any case, the mother (if alive, or in fact my soon could nominate anybody* to officially be the guide for the children in terms of ensuring moo baan fees / house maintenance was carried out etc.

 

*My son asked 'can a farang (the farang being me) be acknowledged as the guide? Answer from Land office chief YES. Land chief continued that the 'guide' can in fact be 2 people, both of course must be adults.

 

I think It's worth sharing why son did not bequeath the land/house to his Thai wife.  The first time my son met his future mother and father in law it was a family event with his girlfriends 7 brothers and sisters present. Son had already met the oldest brother and sister (both around 15/18 years older than sons gf. Both had mentioned several times:

 

- They did not approve of their younger sister marrying a Thai boy who has a farang parent. 'It will instantly bring severe bad luck to all the family'.

 

- Further to the point just above they insisted that my son agree that the farang never ever step on the land.

 

- Further, both the older brother and sister believe they are law experts and insisted that on marriage, by Thai law, the chanut must be changed to show that they now own the property. They had already requested / demanded that they be given the chanut to hold for the future. My son refused this of course and in fact his gf's brother / sister had never seen the original or copy of the chanut.  They also made it plain that they would immediately sell the property (at the time probably about 15million Baht) and they would then hold the money on behalf of themselves and wifes other brothers and sisters, but first they would buy new cars for all 7 brothers and sisters. 

 

My son had all of the above checked by our known lawyer and one more lawyer, they both confirmed that the scenario above was not Thai law in any way.

 

Bottom line, my son's wife is quite frightened of her elder brother and sister and she feared that if her husband died and the chanut was changed to her name they would intimidate her strongly and even physically take her to the Land office and demand that the owner be changed to their names. Therefore she was quite happy that the owner name never be changed to her name.

 

I add, both her older brother and sister had been in trouble with law (jointly for involvement in ponzi schemes, corruption involving rice sales and more. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Robert Thailand said:

In Thailand there are restrictions when it comes to minors (those, under 20 years old) owning or buying property. According to the Thai Civil and Commercial Code minors are not considered capable of engaging in transactions and any agreements made by a minor require the consent of their legal representative – typically a parent or guardian.

 

It would seem that there is no minimum age for a Thai to buy property, the 20 years of age comes into effect if they then want to use it as collateral or sell it, (then the legal guardian would need to approve).

 

https://www.thaicontracts.com/ask/28-other-questions/62-is-it-possible-to-buy-house-in-my-thai-son-s-name-and-then-lease.html#:~:text=There is no law to,to accept or not transactions.

 

 

Edited by bigt3116
  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Large brown envelope filled with grey coloured papers and portraits will without a doubt open the doors to property ownership when presented at the relevant office,problem solved.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ryxyz said:

The Bangkhunthian office refused to put a condo in my 16-year-old daughter's name last year, so as much as I hate it, it was registered in her uncle's name.

Ouch, that's really bad to hear. 

 

Why didn't you try another land office within your province? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why don't you draw up a will giving her title in case of your demise.  This will specifically express your intent to transfer ownership only to her.

She will probably come of age before you kick the bucket, but just in case, name a lawyer as the executor of the property until she turns 20 and can legally enter contracts by herself.

 

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, transam said:

I thought it was 20, if under 20 a family member gets involved..

 

Under 20 it needs a legal guardian. The legal guardian can be the foreign father.

 

OP, buy the condo in your name and when she is 20, transfer it to her. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, ryxyz said:

The Bangkhunthian office refused to put a condo in my 16-year-old daughter's name last year, so as much as I hate it, it was registered in her uncle's name.

 

Why didn't you put it in your name? It's simple. 

 

It takes around 2 hours at the land office, and around 3 days for the bank transfer documents etc. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

It would seem that there is no minimum age for a Thai to buy property, the 20 years of age comes into effect if they then want to use it as collateral or sell it, (then the legal guardian would need to approve).

 

https://www.thaicontracts.com/ask/28-other-questions/62-is-it-possible-to-buy-house-in-my-thai-son-s-name-and-then-lease.html#:~:text=There is no law to,to accept or not transactions.

 

There isn't a law against it, but there isn't a law stating that the land office must do it. Many will refuse as they see it as a foreigner trying to use a loophole and buy Thai land in their half foreign child's name. They have every right to refuse on these grounds, and often do. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/18/2024 at 12:59 PM, SGD said:

My daughter is 16 and there is a condo which is held in a Thai name which she would like to buy. She has dual Thai and UK citizenship and her mother is Thai.

 

I would prefer that her mother does not have anything to do with the property or even knows about it but I do not know whether this can be done ?

 

My presumption is that there must be a way because what if the mother was dead and there was no Thai relative ?

 

We are not interested in any other form of ownership, such as a company or foreign quota etc.

I also read that various land offices have "different interpretations" so for the record, this one would be a property in Jomtien, Pattaya.

Minors can own property, but there need to be a guardian. Be aware of that it's extremely difficult to sell or otherwise dispose of the property, while the owner is minor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Firstly check if your local Land Office will accept a foreign mortgage - some do, some don't. On the presumption that yours does:

 

Find another family member or a trusted Thai friend, put the property in their name but cover yourself with a mortgage in your name, registered on the deeds. Will that mortgage to your daughter in case of your death. When your daughter is old enough (20), have the 'owner' transfer it to your daughter.  There will be taxes to pay on each transaction.

 

Another option may be a trust.  I don't know whether trusts operate in Thailand but if they do, and are allowed to own property - set up a trust for your daughter, let the trust buy and own the property on behalf your daughter until she's old enough. Even though its a trust fund - this is Thailand, have a lawyer draw up a lien, registered on the deeds that prevents the trust from conducting any transactions on the property without the express permission of the beneficiary.

 

You could also set up a Thai Ltd Co to own the property but that would probably involve even more paperwork and the taxes would be higher. I don't think your daughter would be old enough to be a director of that company but she may well be able to hold shares.

 

The first option I've mentioned is probably the easiest as long as the Land Office will accept a foreign mortgage - but with all methods - make sure they are accompanied by a Usufuct agreement that does not prevent sub letting so your daughter can either use the property or let it out.

 

The Usufruct, provided its registered on the title, will also prevent the 'owners' from selling the property in each of the above scenarios.

 

Do not do any of the above without using a decent lawyer.

Edited by MangoKorat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

Many will refuse as they see it as a foreigner trying to use a loophole and buy Thai land in their half foreign child's name. They have every right to refuse on these grounds, and often do. 

 

Your data comes from where ?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bigt3116 said:

 

Your data comes from where ?

 

 

Myself and foreign acquaintances buying houses in different districts. Some have no problem doing it, most do, wanting Thai land to be in the name of fully Thai people, and have no problem in saying why: 'It looks like the foreigner is trying to buy land using their half foreign child. It will need to be in the name of their Thai wife/husband not the half foreign child'. Some offices have no problem, many or most do. YMMV.  

Edited by JeffersLos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/19/2024 at 11:18 PM, Robert Thailand said:

In Thailand there are restrictions when it comes to minors (those, under 20 years old) owning or buying property. According to the Thai Civil and Commercial Code minors are not considered capable of engaging in transactions and any agreements made by a minor require the consent of their legal representative – typically a parent or guardian.

 

Typically if a minor wants to purchase property they would need consent from their representative. In your daughters case this would usually involve her parents or guardian. Unless you have full and sole parental powers, the mother will have to sign. And remember that Pattaya = tea money.

 

In cases where the mother's deceased and no Thai relatives are available a legal guardian or an executor appointed by the court or through a will would be responsible, for making decisions regarding matters. But I doubt this is the case.
 

Even though laws are nationwide local land offices in places like Jomtien, Pattaya may have some leeway in how they interpret and implement rules especially regarding matters. It's important to reach out to the land office in that area to grasp their protocols and prerequisites. Like you say : Thai bureaucracy and they love tea ($) in Pattaya. 

 

Considering your wish to exclude the mother and the complexities of a buying a condo, in Thailand it's highly advisable to consult with a lawyer specializing in Thai property and family law. They can guide you through guardianship issues, purchasing procedures and ensure your daughters interests are well looked after and legally protected.Verify with the mother. Maybe she will agree. And verify with the land department too. Or wait 4 years, put it on your daughter and make a usufruct to you. That can't be done by a child (1574 of Civil Code)
 

 

usufruct... corrupt lat krabang and samut prakarn wants married couples only

 

unless you grease the wheels...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/20/2024 at 3:10 AM, bigt3116 said:

 

It would seem that there is no minimum age for a Thai to buy property, the 20 years of age comes into effect if they then want to use it as collateral or sell it, (then the legal guardian would need to approve).

 

https://www.thaicontracts.com/ask/28-other-questions/62-is-it-possible-to-buy-house-in-my-thai-son-s-name-and-then-lease.html#:~:text=There is no law to,to accept or not transactions.

 

 

 

Critical point. Those speaking about under 20 this and that are failing to recognise that the protection of the law is when something negative is suggested, not something positive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/20/2024 at 4:51 AM, Iron Tongue said:

Why don't you draw up a will giving her title in case of your demise.  This will specifically express your intent to transfer ownership only to her.

She will probably come of age before you kick the bucket, but just in case, name a lawyer as the executor of the property until she turns 20 and can legally enter contracts by herself.

 

 

I cannot own a condo in the Thai quota. Any arguments which follow on from it being in my name are irrelevant. I thank you for your post but I did state this in my opening question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/20/2024 at 6:10 AM, kingstonkid said:

Why don't you buy it and give it to her later.  I don't really understand or knowany Thai teens into realestate. Also where does she get the money to buy it.

 

I cannot own a condo in the Thai quota.

My daughter earns an income from working for one of my companies and has investments of her own. She is looking to diversify and purchase assets in Thailand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, SGD said:

 

Critical point. Those speaking about under 20 this and that are failing to recognise that the protection of the law is when something negative is suggested, not something positive.

 

8 hours ago, SGD said:

 

I cannot own a condo in the Thai quota.

My daughter earns an income from working for one of my companies and has investments of her own. She is looking to diversify and purchase assets in Thailand.

 

SGD, I hear what you are saying, but I think the others are right, especially when they look you up on the system and see you have reached your limit, they will most likely think you are trying to beat the system.

 

Even if you are not.

 

Might be an idea to get a lawyer to help put a plan together for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...