Controversy erupts as Thai doctors clash over mRNA vaccine effect

[pomchop]

1 hour ago, Mark Nothing said:

I am antivax.  Common sense dictates the theories they are following require reevaluating.

The covid virus is not interested if you are antivax or that you have common sense and want to "reevaluate".  The virus is interested in getting inside you and replicating itself as quickly as possible.  Overwhelming evidence thus far is that the vax at minimum mitigates the damage the virus can cause in most cases.  Common sense says get the shot.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Kevin Taylor said:

Dr John Cambel is an interesting man. I followed his channel all through the covid nonsense. At the start he was very pro masking pro lockdown and pro vaccine he would basically repeat what the health department were saying. Over time he did a 180 on all those things. To the point he did one episode where he made a formal apology to all his viewers apologising for repeating wrong information and said basically his whole career he had been taught to trust the so called experts and beuracrats in the health department. Since then he has been on a bit of a tear questioning everything the government said. For those that doubt him he always quotes his sources and adds the links to the studies that he is quoting from. All in all a good man who is trying to educate the public on health matters. Which more than can be said for most media and governments.

 

He figured out that YT videos promoting science don't make money but antiscience conspiracy theories do.

 

1 hour ago, Mark Nothing said:

I am antivax.  Common sense dictates the theories they are following require reevaluating.

 

When you characterize a contentious POV as "common sense" without supporting evidence you don't have an argument.

 

 

Edited February 23 by ozimoron

[Roo Island]

3 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

People making money off of misinformation are in the nightly news. Rachel maddow makes 40k per day and reported misinformation that was never addressed or corrected. That’s a literal fact. She said vaccines stop transmission. Little guys struggling to get a few views on yt are not the ones profiting you have go to be kidding me. 
 

idk why it’s hard for people to understand this but who has lost revenue or jobs during the covid situation. There was even a letter sent out by the medical board telling all doctors they would lose their license if they spread covid “misinformation”: that obviously meant to keep the corporate covid narrative going btw.

 

soim not sure where or how u get this idea all the people who suffered and lost their jobs are the ones profiting lol. Look up Aaron kheriaty of Jay battacharia. Let me know how much they profited as they told you their views about covid.the big hint is the people who got fired and demoted and censored were the ones telling you the truth. 

Your nitpicking on one detail that has been blown out of proportion by the far right. Rachel is hardcore. But generally truthful. Tucker Carlson use to make near 20 million a year and flew in his own private jet. And his lawyers admitted he lied!

 

People who got fired and demoted were the ones lying. Like Tucker.

[Wes81]

On 2/21/2024 at 6:42 PM, johng said:

Oopps !!!!!  Safe and Effective

 

There is also an article in the paper that cannot be named on here  entitled

Long Covid, vaccines may cause disease and death: Chula, Rangsit

 

also a new study

COVID-19 vaccines and adverse events of special interest: A multinational Global Vaccine Data Network (GVDN) cohort study of 99 million vaccinated individuals.

found here

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.vaccine.2024.01.100

which concludes

While our study confirmed previously iden­tified

rare safety signals following COVID-19 vaccination and contributed evidence on several other important outcomes, further
investigation is warranted to confirm associations and assess clinical
significance.

 

"Conclusion

 

This analysis confirmed pre-established safety signals for myocarditis, pericarditis, Guillain-Barré syndrome, and cerebral venous sinus thrombosis. Other potential safety signals that require further investigation were identified."

 

I'm quoting from the summary conclusion near the top  of the article.  You had quoted part but not all of the full conclusion at the end of the article.   Thanks for posting the link.

Edited February 23 by Wes81
clarification

[Roo Island]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

More garbage. I've had 5. If the next upgraded vaccine becomes available in Thailand I'll get it for sure.

Any info on this? I've had 3 and would like the updated one. Wife's mother just got it and spent a few nights in the hospital. Still struggling a bit a week later

[traveller101]

1 hour ago, Robert Paulson said:

People making money off of misinformation are in the nightly news. Rachel maddow makes 40k per day and reported misinformation that was never addressed or corrected. That’s a literal fact. She said vaccines stop transmission. Little guys struggling to get a few views on yt are not the ones profiting you have go to be kidding me. 
 

idk why it’s hard for people to understand this but who has lost revenue or jobs during the covid situation. There was even a letter sent out by the medical board telling all doctors they would lose their license if they spread covid “misinformation”: that obviously meant to keep the corporate covid narrative going btw.

 

soim not sure where or how u get this idea all the people who suffered and lost their jobs are the ones profiting lol. Look up Aaron kheriaty of Jay battacharia. Let me know how much they profited as they told you their views about covid.the big hint is the people who got fired and demoted and censored were the ones telling you the truth. 

Rachel Maddow - one of America's most prominent news hosts - has a  net worth of $35M acc. to yahoo finance.

Joseph Mercola, one of the most prominent Antivaxxers and propagandist of disproven health ideas active on social media.

He stated in an affidavit that his net worth is in excess of $100M.

Other well known 'little guys'

spreading falshoods and conspiracies (Bill Gates had a role in planning the pandemic, it's not about virus, it's about control, vaccines are a part of a medical industry plan to create a 'chronically-ill population' etc) were able to amass anywhere between $2M and $15M. People like Ty Bollinger, Rashid Buttar, Del Bigtree, Kelly Brogan, Ben Tapper and others. All of them have Millions of Followers.

And most of them have not been censored by the various platforms.

 

 

 

[Roo Island]

2 hours ago, Kevin Taylor said:

Dr John Cambel is an interesting man. I followed his channel all through the covid nonsense. At the start he was very pro masking pro lockdown and pro vaccine he would basically repeat what the health department were saying. Over time he did a 180 on all those things. To the point he did one episode where he made a formal apology to all his viewers apologising for repeating wrong information and said basically his whole career he had been taught to trust the so called experts and beuracrats in the health department. Since then he has been on a bit of a tear questioning everything the government said. For those that doubt him he always quotes his sources and adds the links to the studies that he is quoting from. All in all a good man who is trying to educate the public on health matters. Which more than can be said for most media and governments.

He's peddling misinformation for profit. Jeopardizing people's lives. Hardly a good man and definitely not an expert on infectious diseases.

[Roo Island]

18 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

 

 

A vast majority of doctors and scientists around the world agree that the benefits vastly outweigh the side effects.

[BE88]

On yesterday's Bangkokpost there was an article that there are not enough policemen, they are missing the target in certain places due to covid (Officially), there is a lack of nurses, doctors throughout the country, so much so that the time to train UN nurses, doctors, dentists has been reduced in half .

 

So I wonder how many people are currently dying in Thailand? The Covid epidemic is over, so what is the cause?

 

Not wanting to see is worse than being blind.

Edited February 23 by BE88

[dinsdale]

4 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

 

Ahh you mean she cites studies and research, and not her feels?

Yep. Studies and research funded by big pharma.

[Roo Island]

32 minutes ago, BE88 said:

On yesterday's Bangkokpost there was an article that there are not enough policemen, they are missing the target in certain places due to covid (Officially), there is a lack of nurses, doctors throughout the country, so much so that the time to train UN nurses, doctors, dentists has been reduced in half .

 

So I wonder how many people are currently dying in Thailand? The Covid epidemic is over, so what is the cause?

 

Not wanting to see is worse than being blind.

Sad some try to deny the severity of this pandemic

 

https://en.vietnamplus.vn/covid19-cases-increase-in-thailand-after-new-year-holiday/275731.vnp

 

Thailand is witnessing a rising number of COVID-19 cases after the New Year holiday, with those hospitalised up 7% on last week, according to an epidemiologist at Chulalongkorn University. 

 

The number of people reporting respiratory problems from the coronavirus disease also went up by 6.2% over the same period, the biggest increase in four months, said Assoc. Prof. Thira Woratanarat, a specialist in preventive medicine and epidemiology at the university’s faculty of medicine. 

 

Similarly, the number of COVID-19 patients who require breathing assistance rose 13.8%, he said, predicting that new cases are likely to remain around 4,243 - 5,893 per day this week.

Edited February 23 by Roo Island

[Roo Island]

2 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Yep. Studies and research funded by big pharma.

BS. Divisive for sure. But not driven by big pharma.

[pomchop]

22 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Yep. Studies and research funded by big pharma.

so in your expert opinion how many more people would be dead from covid if no vaccines had been given?

 

i have no doubt that there will always be a few people who have an adverse reaction to most any shot or medicine...but does that mean that "big pharma" should not continue to try and come up with vaccines that have saved untold millions of lives and mitigated or prevented the severtity of a variety of diseases because nobody can claim 100% effective or 100% no side effects?

 

Truly amazing how many people who as kids got polio and measles and a wide variety of shots and avoided lots of diseases now as adults say no shots for me and it is all some big made up BS as they watch millions of people worldwide begging for shots and being piled up like firewood in piles of dead people.  Yes it was a new type of shot that was developed quickly because people were dropping dead like flies and worldwide economies were crashing.  One of the few good things Trump ever did in his presidency/life was to push hard for an effective vax to be developed quickly  and then rather than take credit for it and encourage people to get vaxxed he does the opposite.  Of course Trump himself was vaxxed and there is a very good chance it saved his life.

[johng]

7 minutes ago, pomchop said:

they watch millions of people worldwide begging for shots and being piled up like firewood in piles of dead people.

Yes that narrative was pushed very heavily.

 

9 minutes ago, pomchop said:

Yes it was a new type of shot that was developed quickly

At "the speed of science"

 

10 minutes ago, pomchop said:

worldwide economies were crashing

That IMHO was due to the totally overboard reactions of certain governments who totally ignored "accepted"  pandemic protocols  and instead followed China's route.

 

17 minutes ago, pomchop said:

so in your expert opinion how many more people would be dead from covid if no vaccines had been given?

The "experts"  have estimated with their computer models that millions where saved.

[dinsdale]

In a bold and divisive move, France has recently passed legislation that marks a significant departure from traditional values of liberty, particularly freedom of speech and informed consent in the medical field. Dubbed Article Pfizer, this new law imposes severe penalties on those who publicly dissent against the official medical narrative surrounding mRNA vaccines, including potential imprisonment of up to three years and fines reaching $48,400. This unprecedented action by President Macron's administration has ignited a fierce debate on the balance between public health measures and personal freedoms.

https://bnnbreaking.com/world/france-enacts-controversial-law-against-mrna-vaccine-critique-stirs-global-free-speech-concerns

Thou Shalt not Critisize the Narrative.

[rattlesnake]

2 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

In a bold and divisive move, France has recently passed legislation that marks a significant departure from traditional values of liberty, particularly freedom of speech and informed consent in the medical field. Dubbed Article Pfizer, this new law imposes severe penalties on those who publicly dissent against the official medical narrative surrounding mRNA vaccines, including potential imprisonment of up to three years and fines reaching $48,400. This unprecedented action by President Macron's administration has ignited a fierce debate on the balance between public health measures and personal freedoms.

https://bnnbreaking.com/world/france-enacts-controversial-law-against-mrna-vaccine-critique-stirs-global-free-speech-concerns

Thou Shalt not Critisize the Narrative.

 

There have been lots of clickbait articles about this, but in reality it does not change much for the average individual, and certainly does not forbid criticism of the vax. It is aimed at "alternative" health advisors such as Thierry Casasnovas, who claims one can cure all sorts of ailments by eating fruit and veg, amongst other things. This bill states that those who follow this type of guidance must have first clearly expressed their consent and understanding of what they are getting themselves into, failing which the "provider" can be fined and jailed.

[Roo Island]

11 hours ago, dinsdale said:

In a bold and divisive move, France has recently passed legislation that marks a significant departure from traditional values of liberty, particularly freedom of speech and informed consent in the medical field. Dubbed Article Pfizer, this new law imposes severe penalties on those who publicly dissent against the official medical narrative surrounding mRNA vaccines, including potential imprisonment of up to three years and fines reaching $48,400. This unprecedented action by President Macron's administration has ignited a fierce debate on the balance between public health measures and personal freedoms.

https://bnnbreaking.com/world/france-enacts-controversial-law-against-mrna-vaccine-critique-stirs-global-free-speech-concerns

Thou Shalt not Critisize the Narrative.

Same thing here in Thailand. One reason they moderate sites like this. Misinformation should be removed from the internet as some tend to believe it. With disastrous consequences.

[nauseus]

19 hours ago, Roo Island said:

He's peddling misinformation for profit. Jeopardizing people's lives. Hardly a good man and definitely not an expert on infectious diseases.

 

No. He's always tried to pass on the best and most relevant information of the day. Now, that there are a lot more data and studies available, he's simply trying to update and inform people as he always has, so they can decide for themselves. 

[Roo Island]

19 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

No. He's always tried to pass on the best and most relevant information of the day. Now, that there are a lot more data and studies available, he's simply trying to update and inform people as he always has, so they can decide for themselves. 

Decide for themselves with misinformation? This is what's causing lots of problems. People thinking they know more than the professionals and posting it on social media. He's a conspiracy theorist. Not good for our society.

[Rimmer]

An unattributed / conspiracy post and replies has been removed

[dinsdale]

4 hours ago, Roo Island said:

 

Omicron symptoms.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/what-are-the-symptoms-of-omicron

Common cold symptoms.

https://www.cdc.gov/antibiotic-use/colds.html

• Sneezing
• Stuffy nose
• Runny nose
• Sore throat
• Coughing
• Mucus dripping down your throat (post-nasal drip)
• Watery eyes
• Fever (although most people with colds do not have fever)

Notice any similarities?

Coronavirus symptoms vs cold

The Omicron variant (the most dominant strain in the UK) has symptoms that are very similar to a cold. Symptoms such as a headache, a sore throat, a runny nose, muscle aches, coughing or sneezing can be symptoms of the Omicron variant, or a cold.  

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/coronavirus-symptoms-cold-flu-or-coronavirus#cold

 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Omicron symptoms.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/what-are-the-symptoms-of-omicron

Common cold symptoms.

https://www.cdc.gov/antibiotic-use/colds.html

• Sneezing
• Stuffy nose
• Runny nose
• Sore throat
• Coughing
• Mucus dripping down your throat (post-nasal drip)
• Watery eyes
• Fever (although most people with colds do not have fever)

Notice any similarities?

Coronavirus symptoms vs cold

The Omicron variant (the most dominant strain in the UK) has symptoms that are very similar to a cold. Symptoms such as a headache, a sore throat, a runny nose, muscle aches, coughing or sneezing can be symptoms of the Omicron variant, or a cold.  

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/coronavirus-symptoms-cold-flu-or-coronavirus#cold

 

 

Common colds don't result in the kind of long covid symptoms which persist for months.

[dinsdale]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Common colds don't result in the kind of long covid symptoms which persist for months.

This is true but isn't doesn't nullify the commonality of symptoms. As for long covid this is still an area that needs more investigation as do so many other areas of concern in regards to Covid19.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

This is true but isn't doesn't nullify the commonality of symptoms. As for long covid this is still an area that needs more investigation as do so many other areas of concern in regards to Covid19.

 

Which viruses don't share most, if not all, of those symptoms? Comparisons between two completely unrelated viruses are not appropriate.

[dinsdale]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Which viruses don't share most, if not all, of those symptoms? Comparisons between two completely unrelated viruses are not appropriate.

It is appropriate in a discussion about covid where for most people the symptoms are very similar to a common cold i.e non severe.

[xylophone]

15 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

This is true but isn't doesn't nullify the commonality of symptoms. As for long covid this is still an area that needs more investigation as do so many other areas of concern in regards to Covid19.

Agree that more research is needed, and this MAY be a clue as to the effects of "long Covid"..........

 

Researchers believe long Covid sufferers, at least those who experienced severe infections, may never have managed to fully rid their bodies of the virus, allowing it to continue to replicate, or pieces to be retained, even after they had tested negative. This may lead to “persistent activation of the immune system and cause all these chronic symptoms”, Koroshetz said.

 

An NIH study, based on autopsies, found evidence that some who had lost their lives up to 280 days after becoming infected with severe disease had died with active traces of the Covid virus.

 

A longer course of antiviral drugs could help to wipe out any remaining pockets of the virus.

 

A second approach is based on the theory that long Covid is primarily an autoimmune disorder. This suggests sufferers’ immune systems “rev up” to the point where they move from protect to attack mode, weakening healthy cells. Recover investigators will be testing an autoimmune treatment called intravenous gamma globulin (IVIG), which Koroshetz said “resets the immune system and is kind of an immune suppressant”.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/ed17fac5-0af4-432d-ab1b-0a55bc789865

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

It is appropriate in a discussion about covid where for most people the symptoms are very similar to a common cold i.e non severe.

 

Long covid symptoms are very severe. Why are you trying to downplay the severity of covid?

 

Long COVID, the condition where symptoms that surface after recovering from COVID-19 linger for weeks, months, or even years, is still a mystery to doctors and researchers.

The symptoms, such as chronic pain, brain fog, shortness of breath, chest pain, and intense fatigue, can be debilitating. Severe cases of Long COVID can even affect the body’s organs.

 

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/long-covid-symptoms

Edited February 24 by ozimoron

[dinsdale]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Long covid symptoms are very severe. Why are you trying to downplay the severity of covid?

 

Long COVID, the condition where symptoms that surface after recovering from COVID-19 linger for weeks, months, or even years, is still a mystery to doctors and researchers.

The symptoms, such as chronic pain, brain fog, shortness of breath, chest pain, and intense fatigue, can be debilitating. Severe cases of Long COVID can even affect the body’s organs.

 

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/long-covid-symptoms

I sorry that you didn't see that I acknowledged the fact of long covid but you are simply ignoring the fact that there is a commonality of symptoms (EXCLUDING LONG COVID) and that for the vast majority Omicron is a mild viral infection similar to the common cold. Indeed it can be completely asymptomatic. 

[Roo Island]

22 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

It is appropriate in a discussion about covid where for most people the symptoms are very similar to a common cold i.e non severe.

For those who have been vaccinated, you are absolutely correct. For the unvaccinated, covid is a killer. Especially for older folk, etc.

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

I sorry that you didn't see that I acknowledged the fact of long covid but you are simply ignoring the fact that there is a commonality of symptoms (EXCLUDING LONG COVID) and that for the vast majority Omicron is a mild viral infection similar to the common cold. Indeed it can be completely asymptomatic. 

 

Both the sun and the moon are round. That's about as valid a comparison as covid is to the cold. Attempts to portray covid as just another cold are politically driven misinformation. Stop it.