Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[CharlieH]

Al Jazeera Arabic (Arabic: الجزيرة Al-Jazīrah [æl (d)ʒæˈziːrɐ], lit. 'The Peninsula') is a Qatari state-owned Arabic-language news television network. It is based in Doha and operated by the Al Jazeera Media Network, which also operates Al Jazeera English. It is the largest news network in the Middle East and North Africa region

 

It is therefore a bona fide News Agency. Whether you choose to believe the often stated bias of that agency is another matter of personal opinion.

[Neeranam]

Israel don't any journalists who tell it as it is -  they allegedly beat them up and force them to remove their clothes etc- 

 

https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/al-jazeera-staff-released-after-12-hour-detention-and-assault-israeli

[Neeranam]

• Al Jazeera journalist Ismail al-Ghoul freed after 12 hours in Israeli custody, after being Israeli forces severely beat and detained him during raid on Gaza City’s al-Shifa Hospital earlier today.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/3/18/israels-war-on-gaza-live-ceasefire-push-as-rafah-invasion-looms

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Israel don't any journalists who tell it as it is -  they allegedly beat them up and force them to remove their clothes etc- 

 

https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/al-jazeera-staff-released-after-12-hour-detention-and-assault-israeli

 

15 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

• Al Jazeera journalist Ismail al-Ghoul freed after 12 hours in Israeli custody, after being Israeli forces severely beat and detained him during raid on Gaza City’s al-Shifa Hospital earlier today.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/3/18/israels-war-on-gaza-live-ceasefire-push-as-rafah-invasion-looms

One can only wonder why they were there when the IDF did a surprise attack and killed over 40 Hamas terrorists holed up in the hospital along with a high ranking Hamas leader.

 

Watch a few get wiped out in the vid below.

 

"WATCH: Inside the Al-Shifa Hospital raid where IDF arrested over 200 terrorists"

https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1769793808781238547

 

 

[ozimoron]

4 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

I'm sure when all the hostages are returned to Israel and all the Hamas terrorists are captured or killed you will see that your false use of the word "genocide" is being used by you for effect. 

Never has so many gullible people been hoodwinked by a bunch of lying terrorists. 😕

 

It looks to me that you are justifying the forced displacement of civilians based on the fact that Hamas are still holding hostages.

 

It remains a fact that such forced displacements are in fact genocide, regardless of any motivation. Palestinians have very good reason to believe that those displaced civilians will never be permitted to return and that the entire region will be settled by Israelis. The forced displacements of 1948 and the subsequent illegal settlements in the West Bank and the statements of the Israeli government itself provide ample evidence that's going to be the case.

 

The existential risk to Israel if that happens is high. The world will not tolerate such a situation.

 

[ozimoron]

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Israel don't any journalists who tell it as it is -  they allegedly beat them up and force them to remove their clothes etc- 

 

https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/al-jazeera-staff-released-after-12-hour-detention-and-assault-israeli

I certainly believe the heroes of the IDF beat up prisoners and parade ( humiliate ) them only in underpants, both of which are apparently crimes.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Just to keep you happy Wobblybob, you're welcome.

 

Professor Jeffrey Sachs: ‘US is complicit in Israeli genocide’

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/columbia-university-professor-jeffrey-sachs-u-s-is-complicit-in-israeli-genocide-in-gaza/

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/professor-jeffrey-sachs-us-is-complicit-in-israeli-genocide-the-bottom-line/video/efa03aa7708a749a4ac8db1a5b9a5510

He's wrong anyway. Al Jazeera is allowed as a source on AN.

[coolcarer]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

 

Could this bizarre view be because you have a lot of skin in the game? 

 

Professor Jeffrey Sachs: ‘US is complicit in Israeli genocide’

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/the-bottom-line/2024/3/17/professor-jeffrey-sachs-us-is-complicit-in-israeli-genocide

Because the first people we should listen to advise from is Jeffrey Sachs an anti US economist. 😒

[coolcarer]

What a farce. The UN showing the world how to censor a public hearing tomorrow when it faces accusations against itself.

 

Left MEPs Forcing Removal of Cameras From Hearing on UNRWA Terror Ties

BRUSSELS, MARCH 18, 2024 — Leftist members of the European Parliament have caused the removal of cameras from a hearing tomorrow that will feature a watchdog group presenting findings concerning UNRWA ties to terrorism.
The Working Group on External Financial Instruments (WG EFIs) of the European Parliament’s foreign affairs committee will be meeting to address recent allegations against UNRWA staff, including questions around the agency’s impartiality and reputation, as well as possible repercussions from the current investigations.

“I was astonished to learn that members of the European Parliament representing the Left Group, the Greens/EFA and the Socialists and Democrats first tried to stop my testimony and the hearing, and when that failed, they have now initiated removal of cameras tomorrow to prevent my words from going public,” said Neuer.

https://unwatch.org/leftist-meps-force-removal-of-cameras-from-hearing-on-unrwa-terror-ties/

[rattlesnake]

8 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

I wonder why NO OTHER ARAB COUNTRY wants them... ???

 

Because the last thing they want is another Nakba.

 

Arab states say Palestinians must stay on their land as war escalates
It reflects deep Arab fears that Israel's latest war with Hamas in Gaza could spark a new wave of permanent displacement from land where Palestinians want to build a future state.

"This is the cause of all causes, the cause of all Arabs," Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said on Thursday. "It is important that the (Palestinian) people remain steadfast and present on their land."

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/arab-states-say-palestinians-must-stay-their-land-war-escalates-2023-10-13/

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Because the last thing they want is another Nakba.

 

Arab states say Palestinians must stay on their land as war escalates
It reflects deep Arab fears that Israel's latest war with Hamas in Gaza could spark a new wave of permanent displacement from land where Palestinians want to build a future state.

"This is the cause of all causes, the cause of all Arabs," Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said on Thursday. "It is important that the (Palestinian) people remain steadfast and present on their land."

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/arab-states-say-palestinians-must-stay-their-land-war-escalates-2023-10-13/

More like they never want to absorb Palestinians.

Look at how Lebanon treats them. 

[rattlesnake]

5 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Interesting for you but nothing to do with the link to the claim wanted by the poster I responded to.

 

Similar to this one.

 

Some 67% of Palestinians oppose the two-state solution

https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/15/two-state-solution-losing-grounds-in-israel-and-palestine-even-before-terror-attacks-surve

 

It has everything to do with the link to the claim wanted by the poster you responded to, considering this is the interview the link provided to back said claim leads to.

 

Watching the whole 15 minutes instead of just reading the headline does give an entirely different tone and meaning though, that is for certain. It is called contextualising.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

 

It has everything to do with the link to the claim wanted by the poster you responded to, considering this is the interview the link provided to back said claim leads to.

 

Watching the whole 15 minutes instead of just reading the headline does give an entirely different tone and meaning though, that is for certain. It is called contextualising.

Nope, not wasting my time watching a 15 min video to come up with the same result

[Wobblybob]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

It looks to me that you are justifying the forced displacement of civilians based on the fact that Hamas are still holding hostages.

 

It remains a fact that such forced displacements are in fact genocide, regardless of any motivation. Palestinians have very good reason to believe that those displaced civilians will never be permitted to return and that the entire region will be settled by Israelis. The forced displacements of 1948 and the subsequent illegal settlements in the West Bank and the statements of the Israeli government itself provide ample evidence that's going to be the case.

 

The existential risk to Israel if that happens is high. The world will not tolerate such a situation.

 

I am not justifying anything, it is you that comes up with excuses for the terrorists attacks, for without 7/10 none of this would be happening. And your history lessons are worse than tiring and used by yourself and others to deflect the real reason that Israel has taken to make sure that the barbaric attacks never happen again. 

"The world will not tolerate such a situation" please spare us your imaginary dramatics.

[rattlesnake]

33 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

More like they never want to absorb Palestinians.

Look at how Lebanon treats them. 

 

This talking point, which contends that neighbouring countries don't want to take in Palestinian refugees because there is something inherently wrong or unlikeable about them, is false. The real reason has been repeatedly stated by a multitude of Arab leaders, representatives and scholars over the past few months.

 

Why Egypt and other Arab countries are unwilling to take in Palestinian refugees from Gaza

But Arab countries and many Palestinians also suspect Israel might use this opportunity to force permanent demographic changes to wreck Palestinian demands for statehood in Gaza, the West Bank and east Jerusalem, which was also captured by Israel in 1967.

El-Sissi repeated warnings Wednesday that an exodus from Gaza was intended to “eliminate the Palestinian cause … the most important cause of our region.” He argued that if a demilitarized Palestinian state had been created long ago in negotiations, there would not be war now.

https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

This talking point, which contends that neighbouring countries don't want to take in Palestinian refugees because there is something inherently wrong or unlikeable about them, is false. The real reason has been repeatedly stated by a multitude of Arab leaders, representatives and scholars over the past few months.

 

Why Egypt and other Arab countries are unwilling to take in Palestinian refugees from Gaza

But Arab countries and many Palestinians also suspect Israel might use this opportunity to force permanent demographic changes to wreck Palestinian demands for statehood in Gaza, the West Bank and east Jerusalem, which was also captured by Israel in 1967.

El-Sissi repeated warnings Wednesday that an exodus from Gaza was intended to “eliminate the Palestinian cause … the most important cause of our region.” He argued that if a demilitarized Palestinian state had been created long ago in negotiations, there would not be war now.

https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d

The Arab leaders are lying.

They can't accept a Jewish state in their region.

Have Palestinian "refugees" for multiple generations is on them.

They use that for internal political control purposes.

They know they are same as any Arabs but they don't want to lose the eternal refugee card as a propaganda tool. 

Having an enemy to hate (Jews) takes the heat off their internal problems.

If they absorb them then they lose that political tool, so the Palestinains are innocent victims of the Arab world.

Of course Jordan has largely absorbed them so their political stance is different. 

If the conflict was Arab vs. Arab it wouldn't be an international issue -- PERIOD

Edited March 19 by Jingthing

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

This talking point, which contends that neighbouring countries don't want to take in Palestinian refugees because there is something inherently wrong or unlikeable about them, is false.

Absolutely 

[Wobblybob]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He's wrong anyway. Al Jazeera is allowed as a source on AN.

Why haven't anybody been using AJ for the last couple of months, now you have been given the green light to use propaganda from AJ, the flood gates have been opened. 🥴

[ozimoron]

 

[rattlesnake]

Israeli settler leader Daniella Weiss, head of the Nahala settlement movement and former mayor of Kedumim, an Israeli settlement located in the West Bank, said that “no Arab will remain in Gaza” after the war and that those “who want to have a quiet life” should migrate to other countries.

 

 

From another interview:

"All of Gaza belongs to the Land of Israel."

"We've just seen the Arabs leaving their homes, we have to invade."

 

 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Israeli settler leader Daniella Weiss, head of the Nahala settlement movement and former mayor of Kedumim, an Israeli settlement located in the West Bank, said that “no Arab will remain in Gaza” after the war and that those “who want to have a quiet life” should migrate to other countries.

 

 

From another interview:

"All of Gaza belongs to the Land of Israel."

"We've just seen the Arabs leaving their homes, we have to invade."

 

 

Disgusting.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Disgusting.

Agreed but her views do not represent the Israeli government. 

[Neeranam]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Agreed but her views do not represent the Israeli government. 

All the settlers she leads are licking their lips at all the land they think will be up for grabs. 

[rattlesnake]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Agreed but her views do not represent the Israeli government. 

 

This is debatable to say the least. I don't want to go off-topic but just for context, Daniella Weiss supports Netanyahu, whose policies are in line with her vision:

 

Israeli settlers have high hopes after Netanyahu election win

But among ideological settlers who see themselves as pioneers redeeming Biblical heartland promised by God, hopes are already high for budgets, construction and infrastructure to keep their enterprise thriving.

"Our expectations are great," said Daniella Weiss, a veteran settler who led the tiny scouting mission. "This government is better for the Jews than it is for the Arabs. That's the name of the game."

Weiss described the election results as a revolution. "As a person heading a settlement movement, it's a victory," she said. "I have no doubt there will be acceleration in development of the settlements."

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-settlers-have-high-hopes-after-netanyahu-election-win-2022-11-07/

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

From another interview:

"All of Gaza belongs to the Land of Israel."

"We've just seen the Arabs leaving their homes, we have to invade."

I had no idea that the settlers made up 10% of Israel's population! 

More than 700,000 settlers – 10 percent of Israel’s nearly 7 million population – now live in 150 settlements and 128 outposts dotting the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem.

A settlement is authorised by the Israeli government while an outpost is built without government authorisation. Outposts can range from a small shanty of a few people to a community of up to 400 people.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/6/who-are-israeli-settlers-and-why-do-they-live-on-palestinian-lands

 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Agreed but her views do not represent the Israeli government. 

 

She's leader of the settlers. She speaks for the settlers, all of them presumably. She's not some random cleaning lady even if she looks like one.

[ozimoron]

In an unprecedented legal development, senior Australian politicians, including Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, have been referred to the International Criminal Court (ICC) for investigation into whether they have aided or supported Israel’s actions in Gaza.

 

The referral, made by the Sydney law firm Birchgrove Legal on behalf of their clients, is the first time any serving Australian political leaders have been formally referred to the ICC for investigation.

 

The referral asserts that Albanese, Foreign Minister Penny Wong, Opposition Leader Peter Dutton and other members of the government have violated the Rome Statute, the 1998 treaty that established the ICC to investigate and prosecute allegations of war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity.

 

https://theconversation.com/why-have-anthony-albanese-and-other-politicians-been-referred-to-the-icc-over-the-gaza-war-225079

[Neeranam]

20 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

She's leader of the settlers. She speaks for the settlers, all of them presumably. She's not some random cleaning lady even if she looks like one.

Indeed, she represents 10% of the total population. 

 

[Wobblybob]

John Spencer chairman of urban warfare studies at West Point described Israels achievement as unprecedented, especially given the complex combat conditions.

A lot of people would agree that Hamas themselves are responsible for more Palestian deaths than anyone else.