6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   So you are in favour of a one state solution as long as there a Palestinian majority , or  two state solution from where the Palestinians can attack Israel and try to get a one state solution with Palestinians being the majority .

  So, back to the "from the river to the sea", and no existence of Israel 

No, my first choice would be a one-state solution where all citizens, Palestinian/Arab/Muslim and Israelis/Jews/Jew, would live together in peace as equals. But, as I said above, that just doesn't seem like it could happen.

 

So, my second choice would be a two-state solution where each group has its own designated land (as was done by the UN in 1948).

 

My last choice (in fact, it's not even a "choice" but a "nightmare") would be a one-state solution in which either side is dominant and either eliminates or subjugates the other side.

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

The settler movement are in favour of the river to the sea. Or the nile to the euphrates. Do you support that?

No, I support neither of those versions of a one-state solution.

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

No, I support neither of those one-state solutions.

 

Is your name NIck today? 🙂

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Is your name NIck today? 🙂

No, sorry. I was responding to several posts and got carried away. 

13 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

I am. I have condemned Hamas. But that was 5 months ago now. When was the last Israeli strike killing civilians? Oh that's right, it was today. And every day.

 

Please give me a quick recap. Which actions of Israel have you "condemned"?

 

They may not have all voted for her but she is their leader and therefore does speak for all of them.

When was the last time Hamas we’re holding hostage, oh today and everyday. No hostages no more war.

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

More journalists killed in three months of Gaza war than in all of World War II or Vietnam War.

Al Jazeera journalist Hamza Dahdouh and fellow journalist Mustafa Thuraya were killed in an Israeli air strike on Dahdouh’s car on Sunday.

 

The Palestinian Journalists Syndicate has documented the killing of 102 journalists and the injury of 71 others by Israeli forces since hostilities began in October.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/inside-story/2024/1/8/what-international-solidarity-exists-with-journalists-under-israeli-attack

I wonder how many terrorists among them.

 

More than half of the Palestinian journalists killed in the Gaza Strip during Operation Iron Swords were affiliated with terrorist organizations

The government media office of Hamas in the Gaza Strip reported that as of February 18, 2024, 131 Palestinian journalists had been killed in the Gaza Strip since the beginning of the war (October 7, 2023). The Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center’s comprehensive examination of the 131 names revealed that approximately 60% were operatives in or affiliated with the terrorist organizations, Fatah or the Palestinian Authority.

https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/more-than-half-of-the-palestinian-journalists-killed-in-the-gaza-strip-during-operation-iron-swords-were-affiliated-with-terrorist-organizations/

16 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

When was the last time Hamas we’re holding hostage, oh today and everyday. No hostages no more war.

If that were true, I'd definitely advise Hamas to release/exchange all hostages/prisoners. BUT..., I don't think that would end this conflict. I think after all the hostages were released, Israel would just continue attacking Gaza, killing Palestinians, and maybe then in the West Bank also.

15 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

If that were true, I'd definitely advise Hamas to release/exchange all hostages/prisoners. BUT..., I don't think that would end this conflict. I think after all the hostages were released, Israel would just continue attacking Gaza, killing Palestinians, and maybe then in the West Bank also.

It's no secret. Israel's war goals in response to the barbaric attack on October 7 include both getting the hostages back AND crushing Hamas. Both goals are very difficult. 

13 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:

What could the Israelis do when Hamas terrorists hide behind civilians and in hospitals? Relax and let them plan the next massacre?

They do what others did and would do in the same situation.

 

Remember "Operation Vigilant Resolve" and "Operation Phantom Fury" in 2004, when the US bombed the city of Faludscha? They used Phosphor bombs, uranium ammunition and cluster bombs.

 

By the way: Where are the arab brothers? Egypt could easily open their border for civilians? 

Why should Egypt take them? They are not Egyptian. You seem to equate being Arab to being able to be a citizen in any Arab country which is a nonsense. Palestinians have their own land, and if the israelis just do the right thing and get off it, there might be a chance for peace.

Could you just go and live in another western country as a citizen?

 

It is the israelis that are the illegal immigrants in the West Bank, not the Palestinians. I repeat, israelis are illegal immigrants in Palestine, not the Palestinians that own the land that israelis are stealing.

 

Just because America used phosphor bombs is no justification for israel doing the same. Even America didn't illegally occupy Iraq for 30 years.

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why should Egypt take them? They are not Egyptian. You seem to equate being Arab to being able to be a citizen in any Arab country which is a nonsense. Palestinians have their own land, and if the israelis just do the right thing and get off it, there might be a chance for peace.

Could you just go and live in another western country as a citizen?

 

It is the israelis that are the illegal immigrants in the West Bank, not the Palestinians. I repeat, israelis are illegal immigrants in Palestine, not the Palestinians that own the land that israelis are stealing.

 

Just because America used phosphor bombs is no justification for israel doing the same. Even America didn't illegally occupy Iraq for 30 years.

Another one that eschews the complexity of real life.

Are Palestinian Arabs really different than Jordanian Arabs?

You ignore the fact that there was mass migration to British Mandate Palestine to take advantage of economic opportunities from the pan Arabic world related to Zionist pioneers.

This fetishism over specific Palestinian Arab identity is an artificial construct. 

Anyway I agree with you that the west bank settlements are illegal. 

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why should Egypt take them? They are not Egyptian. You seem to equate being Arab to being able to be a citizen in any Arab country which is a nonsense. Palestinians have their own land, and if the israelis just do the right thing and get off it, there might be a chance for peace.

Could you just go and live in another western country as a citizen?

 

It is the israelis that are the illegal immigrants in the West Bank, not the Palestinians. I repeat, israelis are illegal immigrants in Palestine, not the Palestinians that own the land that israelis are stealing.

 

Just because America used phosphor bombs is no justification for israel doing the same. Even America didn't illegally occupy Iraq for 30 years.

 

   Where should the Israelis go ?

Maybe Caucasian New Zealanders and Israelis could both get off other peoples land and go and live together somewhere in some new country  ?

59 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's no secret. Israel's war goals in response to the barbaric attack on October 7 include both getting the hostages back AND crushing Hamas. Both goals are very difficult. 

Israel's (the extreme, right-wing, nationalistic faction whose name I'm forbidden to use) goal all along, well before Oct 7, was to completely subdue any Palestinian efforts to stop them from completely dominating this land. I hope they do get their hostages back. I think all they'd have to do is offer a ceasefire, but I know there would be other conditions on which both sides might not agree. I wouldn't mind them "crushing" Hamas, but not to the extent that they are conducting a virtual genocide of the Palestinians. 

9 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Israel's (the extreme, right-wing, nationalistic faction whose name I'm forbidden to use) goal all along, well before Oct 7, was to completely subdue any Palestinian efforts to stop them from completely dominating this land. I hope they do get their hostages back. I think all they'd have to do is offer a ceasefire, but I know there would be other conditions on which both sides might not agree. I wouldn't mind them "crushing" Hamas, but not to the extent that they are conducting a virtual genocide of the Palestinians. 

You conveniently fail to mention that the stated goal of Hamas is genocide of Jews. So Israel is supposed to just cave? It's funny not ha ha to me. Jew haters attack Jews for being too passive as in WW2 and they also attack when Jews finally realized they needed serious military power to survive as in Israel.

As the saying goes:

“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.”

Golda Meir

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Where should the Israelis go ?

Maybe Caucasian New Zealanders and Israelis could both get off other peoples land and go and live together somewhere in some new country  ?

That ship has sailed. In the  movement before the founding of Israel there were other geographical options discussed and considered. Obviously Israel was most ideal because of the ancient bond between the Jewish people and the land of Israel (Next Year In Jerusalem) but the core idea was a political self determination liberation movement where Jews could finally avoid the cyclical persecution in the diaspora. So it could have been somewhere else at least theoretically. But Israel exists now and isn't going anywhere.

29 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Where should the Israelis go ?

Maybe Caucasian New Zealanders and Israelis could both get off other peoples land and go and live together somewhere in some new country  ?

Anywhere they like, there are plenty of countries around the world who will accept law abiding citizens, of any religion.

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You conveniently fail to mention that the stated goal of Hamas is genocide of Jews. So Israel is supposed to just cave? It's funny not ha ha to me. Jew haters attack Jews for being too passive as in WW2 and they also attack when Jews finally realized they needed serious military power to survive. 

I've never heard that the stated goal of Hamas is "genocide of Jews," but if you define "genocide" as the expulsion of a people from the land on which they are living, then I would agree with that. of course, I would say that is the stated goal of the right-wing, nationalistic faction of the Israelis (whose name I am forbidden to use here.) 

No, Israel is not supposed to just "cave." I have repeatedly recommended they enter into talks with the Palestinians to work out a deal for either a one-state or two-state solution. And, I agree they should strike back at any attackers, but not to the degree of causing such civilian casualties as they have done and continue to do in Gaza.

Israel has been anything but passive during the last 85 years. They have been very active in invading and seizing control of Palestinian land. Many, but not all of these actions, I admit, have been the result of Palestinian attacks on them, but nonetheless, they have not been "passive."

 

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That ship has sailed. In the  movement before the founding of Israel there were other geographical options discussed and considered. Obviously Israel was most ideal because of the ancient bond between the Jewish people and the land of Israel (Next Year In Jerusalem) but the core idea was a political self determination liberation movement where Jews could finally avoid the cyclical persecution in the diaspora. So it could have been somewhere else at least theoretically. But Israel exists now and isn't going anywhere.

"But Israel exists now and isn't going anywhere." I agree, but hopefully, it will not do so at the cost of the genocide of the Palestinian Arabs. I hope this ends up in some kind of two-state agreement in which both groups can agree to live, if not together, at least side-by-side. But, I know there will be bitterness and hate on both sides for a long, long time.

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

"But Israel exists now and isn't going anywhere." I agree, but hopefully, it will not do so at the cost of the genocide of the Palestinian Arabs. I hope this ends up in some kind of two-state agreement in which both groups can agree to live, if not together, at least side-by-side. But, I know there will be bitterness and hate on both sides for a long, long time.

Again NEITHER side wants a two state solution.

A one state solution means the end of Israel. 

Don't ask me what a solution could be because looking at the history nobody has come close to cracking that nut.

7 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I've never heard that the stated goal of Hamas is "genocide of Jews," but if you define "genocide" as the expulsion of a people from the land on which they are living, then I would agree with that. of course, I would say that is the stated goal of the right-wing, nationalistic faction of the Israelis (whose name I am forbidden to use here.) 

No, Israel is not supposed to just "cave." I have repeatedly recommended they enter into talks with the Palestinians to work out a deal for either a one-state or two-state solution. And, I agree they should strike back at any attackers, but not to the degree of causing such civilian casualties as they have done and continue to do in Gaza.

Israel has been anything but passive during the last 85 years. They have been very active in invading and seizing control of Palestinian land. Many, but not all of these actions, I admit, have been the result of Palestinian attacks on them, but nonetheless, they have not been "passive."

 

You haven't heard? How convenient for you.

Do you think it helps your credibility as an obvious Israel demonizer to act so dumb?

 

 

Hamas’s Genocidal Intentions Were Never a Secret - The Atlantic

Understanding Hamas’s Genocidal Ideology

A close read of Hamas’s founding documents clearly shows its intentions.

11 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Anywhere they like, there are plenty of countries around the world who will accept law abiding citizens, of any religion.

 

   So you are in favour of genocide when it happens to Jews  but you strongly oppose genocide when its being done by Jews ?

   Its perfectly acceptable to remove Jews from the land , but its genocide when non Jews are removed from the land ?

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

So Israel is supposed to just cave?

No, they only have to share the land, it's not rocket science. 

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You haven't heard? How convenient for you.

Do you think it helps your credibility as an obvious Israel demonizer to act so dumb?

 

 

Hamas’s Genocidal Intentions Were Never a Secret - The Atlantic

Understanding Hamas’s Genocidal Ideology

A close read of Hamas’s founding documents clearly shows its intentions.

I wonder why Netanyahu supported funding an organization whose ideology was to kill all Jews, as if you didn't know. 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

I wonder why Netanyahu supported funding Hamas, as if you didn't know. 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

 

   That report was published on 8 th October 2023 and was discussed at the time of publication . you can see the comments if you go to the thread where it was discussed .

  ( Hamas were seen as a better alternative than the PLO and Fatah, at the time when Israel gave support)

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

No, they only have to share the land, it's not rocket science. 

Meaningless statement without being more specific.

 

They hit the jackpot at Shifa Hospital again. 90 dead terrorists so far. Worrying how quickly the terrorists re occupied it after the previous raid but hospitals are a favourite refuge for the cowards to set up base and command centers.

 

IDF says it has killed some 90 terrorists so far in Shifa hospital raid

The IDF says troops have so far killed more than 90 Hamas gunmen during its ongoing raid at Gaza City’s Shifa Hospital.

The operation, which began early Monday morning, is being carried out by the Navy’s Shayetet 13 commando unit, the 401st Armored Brigade, and other forces.

“Over the past day, the troops have eliminated terrorists and located weapons in the hospital area, while preventing harm to civilians, patients, medical teams, and medical equipment,” the military says in a statement.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-it-has-killed-some-90-terrorists-so-far-in-shifa-hospital-raid/

23 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  That can happened once Gazans have been moved off the land and Jews are in the majority .

Then we can have our one state Jewish majority land of Israel

That is the solution  

The problem with that is that the Gazans own the land they live on. Israelis have zero rights to it. It is not part of the land allocated to israel in 1948, ergo israelis have no business controlling or invading or blockading it, and if it wasn't for the American veto in the UN, they would have been forced to stop thinking they have a right to any say over it, long ago.

 

Are you aware that you are advocating for ethnic cleansing, which is a crime against humanity?

 

Are you aware that you are advocating for apartheid? If you are wanting one state with full and equal rights for all Arabs living in it, get back to me on that, but I doubt you do.

19 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Anywhere they like, there are plenty of countries around the world who will accept law abiding citizens, of any religion.

The poster you quoted seems to have a bee in his bonnet about New Zealand, else why mention it in a thread about Gaza?

He doesn't seem to know much about it either.

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The problem with that is that the Gazans own the land they live on. Israelis have zero rights to it. It is not part of the land allocated to israel in 1948, ergo israelis have no business controlling or invading or blockading it, and if it wasn't for the American veto in the UN, they would have been forced to stop thinking they have a right to any say over it, long ago.

 

Are you aware that you are advocating for ethnic cleansing, which is a crime against humanity?

 

Are you aware that you are advocating for apartheid? If you are wanting one state with full and equal rights for all Arabs living in it, get back to me on that, but I doubt you do.

 

  Drastic action needs to be taken .

Land ownership can easily be changed .

Its not going to be pretty , but it needs to be done for a more peaceful World 

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The poster you quoted seems to have a bee in his bonnet about New Zealand, else why mention it in a thread about Gaza?

He doesn't seem to know much about it either.

 

  I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of New Zealanders telling Israelis that they shouldn't be taking other peoples land , when Israeli forefathers lived on the land of Israel, but non Maori New Zealanders fore fathers didn't live on the land of New Zealand