Trump will not give a penny to Ukraine - Hungary PM Orban

Social Media · March 11

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban's recent remarks about former US President Donald Trump's stance on providing aid to Ukraine have sparked controversy and raised concerns about the future of the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. Orban stated that Trump, if re-elected as US president, would not allocate any funds to support Ukraine's fight against Russia's invasion. This assertion came after Orban's meeting with Trump in Florida, where the former president allegedly pledged to end the war "within 24 hours" without providing specific details.

Orban's open backing of Trump in the 2024 White House race underscores his long-standing alliance with the former US leader. During their meeting, Trump praised Orban, calling him a "fantastic" leader. Orban claimed that Trump possesses "pretty detailed plans" on ending the Russia-Ukraine war, although he did not elaborate on the specifics of these plans.

The Hungarian prime minister's refusal to meet with current US President Joe Biden during his visit to the US is notable, especially considering the tradition of visiting foreign leaders to engage with both former and current counterparts. Orban's close ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin have drawn criticism from fellow EU leaders, particularly regarding his reluctance to provide military assistance to Ukraine and his skepticism about Ukraine's ability to withstand Russia's military might.

Orban's comments have raised concerns among EU leaders about the potential consequences of a second Trump presidency, including a reduction in US military and financial aid to Ukraine and NATO. This concern is exacerbated by the stalled $95 billion foreign aid bill, which includes $60 billion in military assistance to Ukraine, due to Republican opposition in the US Congress.

The ongoing conflict between Ukraine and Russia has seen recent gains by Russian forces in eastern Ukraine, highlighting the critical need for Western support, particularly from the US, to bolster Ukraine's defense capabilities. However, the reluctance of some Republican lawmakers, influenced by Trump, to approve aid to Ukraine without additional funding for US border security further complicates the situation.

Overall, Orban's remarks and his alignment with Trump underscore the complexities surrounding the Ukraine-Russia conflict and the geopolitical implications of US foreign policy decisions under different administrations. The future of US support for Ukraine remains uncertain, leaving Ukraine vulnerable to Russian aggression and underscoring the importance of international cooperation in addressing global security challenges.

12.03.24

Source

thaibeachlovers · March 12

5 hours ago, Social Media said:

The Hungarian prime minister's refusal to meet with current US President Joe Biden during his visit to the US is notable, especially considering the tradition of visiting foreign leaders to engage with both former and current counterparts.

Why would he bother meeting a dead duck president?

impulse · March 12

Good. As an American, I don't want to see another dime of our treasure spent to perpetuate the killing and misery of a war that, by all objective measures has already been lost.

I'd support loaning Ukraine the money to rebuild. I'd even support the long term prospect of forgiving the loans if Ukraine met conditions related to corruption and actually using the money for rebuilding.

But not another dime to continue the killing. Not another forever war.

Trippy · March 12

I'm all for helping Ukraine, but considering any money sent there will be money the US has to borrow, shouldn't we be giving Ukraine money as a loan instead of a gift?

BenStark · March 12

Just now, Trippy said:

I'm all for helping Ukraine, but considering any money sent there will be money the US has to borrow, shouldn't we be giving Ukraine money as a loan instead of a gift?

You mean as in a loan that never will get paid back?

Trippy · March 13

On 3/12/2024 at 10:41 AM, BenStark said:

You mean as in a loan that never will get paid back?

Doesn't matter, the point is the US can no longer be seen as Santa Claus.

Borrowing just to give it away is stupid on any level.

placeholder · May 8

Just as in the case of what Trump says, there's very little that Orban says that should ever be believed. This is one of those very rare instances where he's speaking honestly.

johng · May 8

On 3/12/2024 at 10:41 AM, BenStark said:

You mean as in a loan that never will get paid back?

They made the UK pay it all back after WWII only a few years ago fully repaid...thats a longgggg time.

Seppius · May 8

They are not giving Ukraine money, it's in weapons, the US and UK and other have, then the money is spent in their own countries replacing them with newer technology, boosting the economies

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/24/1246923885/what-congress-60-billion-of-military-aid-for-ukraine-could-mean-for-the-battlefi

Gweiloman · May 9

Trump ทany have been light on details on how he would end the conflict but not the top EU diplomat, J. borrell. Here he says exactly how he would end the war.

The Ukrainian existence depends on us. I know how to finish the war in Ukraine. I can finish the war in Ukraine in a couple of weeks just by cutting the supply. If I cut the supply of arms to Ukraine, Ukraine cannot resist, they will have to surrender, and the war will finish.
https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/united-kingdom-speech-high-representativevice-president-josep-borrell-oxford-university-about-world_en

Seppius · May 9

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Trump ทany have been light on details on how he would end the conflict but not the top EU diplomat, J. borrell. Here he says exactly how he would end the war.

The Ukrainian existence depends on us. I know how to finish the war in Ukraine. I can finish the war in Ukraine in a couple of weeks just by cutting the supply. If I cut the supply of arms to Ukraine, Ukraine cannot resist, they will have to surrender, and the war will finish.
https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/united-kingdom-speech-high-representativevice-president-josep-borrell-oxford-university-about-world_en

Here's a good list of those countries supplying arms and ammo to Ukraine, doubt it will stop any time soon on the word of a Spanish official

https://www.forumarmstrade.org/ukraine-countries.html

scottiejohn · May 9

28 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Sigh… you are really showing your bigotry…I do honestly feel sorry for you. More than that, I feel more sorry for those that have to share their lives with you.

What to do. It is what it is.

I feel the exact same way about you and your totally brainwashed and bigoted communist views!

I most certainly would not wish to share one moment of time with people who you believe in/with!

I suggest you draw back your beloved Iron Curtain and crawl back behind it!

metisdead · May 9

Off topic bickering and baiting posts and replies have been removed.

thaibeachlovers · May 9

On 5/8/2024 at 10:23 PM, Seppius said:

They are not giving Ukraine money, it's in weapons, the US and UK and other have, then the money is spent in their own countries replacing them with newer technology, boosting the economies

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/24/1246923885/what-congress-60-billion-of-military-aid-for-ukraine-could-mean-for-the-battlefi

Economies built on death and destruction. No thanks. I'd rather have economies built on making things people want.

War is evil, companies that make death are evil, IMO.

I have no problem with making defensive weapons, but not offensive ones like 2,000 lb bombs.

scottiejohn · May 10

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have no problem with making defensive weapons, but not offensive ones like 2,000 lb bombs.

The old proverb says that "Attack is the best form of defence"!

Edited May 10 by scottiejohn

Jingthing · May 10

Trump / Orban / Putin anti democracy fascists all.

Of course they don't want to help Ukraine defend itself against the expansionist genocidal forces of Russ.

Seppius · May 10

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Economies built on death and destruction. No thanks. I'd rather have economies built on making things people want.

War is evil, companies that make death are evil, IMO.

I have no problem with making defensive weapons, but not offensive ones like 2,000 lb bombs.

They are giving the weapons to Ukraine to defend itself.

Jingthing · May 10

11 minutes ago, Seppius said:

They are giving the weapons to Ukraine to defend itself.

The west needs to become more committed to Ukraine actually WINNING for this conflict to ever have a decent resolution. Russian will never stop until they are made to stop.

Gweiloman · May 10

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The west needs to become more committed to Ukraine actually WINNING for this conflict to ever have a decent resolution. Russian will never stop until they are made to stop.

The west knows Ukraine cannot win. Only the suckers on here think that this is even remotely possible.

Hummin · May 10

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Economies built on death and destruction. No thanks. I'd rather have economies built on making things people want.

War is evil, companies that make death are evil, IMO.

I have no problem with making defensive weapons, but not offensive ones like 2,000 lb bombs.

Do people know what they really want, and if they do, do they strive to get it?

The majority of people have their heads in Meta and Tik Tok or other social media, often called their heads up where the sun never shines!

Giving up Ukraine as continuing the slaughters is both wrong, but as long this war have more than two parts with interests, ceasefire is still a long shot away.

If this was just about Ukraine and Russia, the war would had been over after months. Based on Georgia war which lasted 16 days only.

Gweiloman · May 10

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

If this was just about Ukraine and Russia, the war would had been over after months. Based on Georgia war which lasted 16 days only.

Except for the deniers on here, everyone knows this war is not just a Russia and Ukraine. It’s about weakening Russia first before taking on China.

Hummin · May 10

6 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Except for the deniers on here, everyone knows this war is not just a Russia and Ukraine. It’s about weakening Russia first before taking on China.

I do not want to prefict anything, more using the available historic facts when it comes to earlier interventions, and economic embargos.

This war is totally different because Zelenskyj decided to stay, and not run!

Now we/they Usa and Eu have to finish what we started! Continue to support Ukraine as long they want to fight.

Putin is in for the long run, and will not give up the new boarders or Crimea, unless The Russians replace him!

China have time, and will wait until the right time to start their move in the South China sea. They have no rush.

RayC · May 10

On 5/9/2024 at 4:16 AM, Gweiloman said:

Trump ทany have been light on details on how he would end the conflict but not the top EU diplomat, J. borrell. Here he says exactly how he would end the war.

The Ukrainian existence depends on us. I know how to finish the war in Ukraine. I can finish the war in Ukraine in a couple of weeks just by cutting the supply. If I cut the supply of arms to Ukraine, Ukraine cannot resist, they will have to surrender, and the war will finish.
https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/united-kingdom-speech-high-representativevice-president-josep-borrell-oxford-university-about-world_en

Congratulations. You will top prize in the 'Taking a quote out of context' contest.

In the very next sentences, Borrell went on to say: "

"But is this the way we want the war to finish? I do not want [that], and I hope that many people in Europe do not want [that] either.

On the contrary, we will do whatever we can in order to provide the Ukrainians with the military and political support, and we will provide the people in the Middle East all our political engagement to look for a fair peace."

Earlier in his speech, Borrell stated, "Today, Putin is an existential threat to all of us. If Putin succeeds in Ukraine, he will not stop there. The prospect of having in Kyiv a puppet government like the one in Belarus, and the Russian troops on the Polish border, and Russia controlling 44% of the world[‘s] grain market is something that Europeans should be aware of."

That's the truth of the matter.

Gweiloman · May 10

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Congratulations. You will top prize in the 'Taking a quote out of context' contest.

In the very next sentences, Borrell went on to say: "

"But is this the way we want the war to finish? I do not want [that], and I hope that many people in Europe do not want [that] either.

On the contrary, we will do whatever we can in order to provide the Ukrainians with the military and political support, and we will provide the people in the Middle East all our political engagement to look for a fair peace."

Earlier in his speech, Borrell stated, "Today, Putin is an existential threat to all of us. If Putin succeeds in Ukraine, he will not stop there. The prospect of having in Kyiv a puppet government like the one in Belarus, and the Russian troops on the Polish border, and Russia controlling 44% of the world[‘s] grain market is something that Europeans should be aware of."

That's the truth of the matter.

When the conflict started 2 years ago, I stated that the it could be easily stopped by stopping supplies to Ukraine. It took some time for this moron to come to the same conclusion so my post was perfectly in context of what I was saying, 2 years ago.

Maybe you missed what he said as well.

. It has never been easy, but we have the moral responsibility of contributing to it because we are part of the problem. We created this problem one way or another, and we have a strong responsibility in trying to solve it.

This sentence was just before the quote I posted. To me, he was clearly referring to the expansion of NATO eastwards towards Russia, although many here will try to argue differently as they naively believe what they read in western media that this was an unprovoked conflict.

In any case, this idiot is a classic example of the hubris of the west. Remember this?

Europe is a garden. We have built a garden. Everything works. It is the best combination of political freedom, economic prosperity and social cohesion that the humankind has been able to build – the three things together," Borrell said during the event.

"The rest of the world," he went on, "is not exactly a garden. Most of the rest of the world is a jungle, and the jungle could invade the garden."

RayC · May 10

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

When the conflict started 2 years ago, I stated that the it could be easily stopped by stopping supplies to Ukraine. It took some time for this moron to come to the same conclusion so my post was perfectly in context of what I was saying, 2 years ago.

You don't need to be a military strategist to know that if you cut supply lines to one of the combatants then they will (almost certainly) lose the war. I don't doubt that Borrell knew this two years ago as well.

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Maybe you missed what he said as well.

. It has never been easy, but we have the moral responsibility of contributing to it because we are part of the problem. We created this problem one way or another, and we have a strong responsibility in trying to solve it.

This sentence was just before the quote I posted. To me, he was clearly referring to the expansion of NATO eastwards towards Russia, although many here will try to argue differently as they naively believe what they read in western media that this was an unprovoked conflict.

I doubt very much that he was referring to NATO given that the sentence you quote comes just after he talks about Hamas. Imo he is referring to the legacy created by the West in Palestine. As he is an EU envoy and was making a speech at Oxford, I would think that he was referring to the UK and France in particular.

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

In any case, this idiot is a classic example of the hubris of the west. Remember this?

Europe is a garden. We have built a garden. Everything works. It is the best combination of political freedom, economic prosperity and social cohesion that the humankind has been able to build – the three things together," Borrell said during the event.

"The rest of the world," he went on, "is not exactly a garden. Most of the rest of the world is a jungle, and the jungle could invade the garden."

No, I don't remember this. It all sounds a bit flowery - pun intended - however, without knowing the context in which this paragraph was made, it's difficult to form much of an opinion.

Gweiloman · May 11

8 hours ago, RayC said:

You don't need to be a military strategist to know that if you cut supply lines to one of the combatants then they will (almost certainly) lose the war. I don't doubt that Borrell knew this two years ago as well.

I doubt very much that he was referring to NATO given that the sentence you quote comes just after he talks about Hamas. Imo he is referring to the legacy created by the West in Palestine. As he is an EU envoy and was making a speech at Oxford, I would think that he was referring to the UK and France in particular.

No, I don't remember this. It all sounds a bit flowery - pun intended - however, without knowing the context in which this paragraph was made, it's difficult to form much of an opinion.

For your reading pleasure.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/10/26/josep-borrells-jungle-trope-was-no-slip-of-the-tongue/

RayC · May 11

6 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

For your reading pleasure.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/10/26/josep-borrells-jungle-trope-was-no-slip-of-the-tongue/

Thanks for the link.

I imagine that Borrell regrets ever making that particular speech. The subsequent Oxford speech suggests that he now chooses his words more carefully.

In any event, it doesn't change the substance of what he was saying i.e. that he hopes for an Ukrainian victory.

thaibeachlovers · May 11

On 5/10/2024 at 5:24 PM, Seppius said:

They are giving the weapons to Ukraine to defend itself.

Missiles that can hit deep inside Russia are not defensive.

thaibeachlovers · May 11

On 5/11/2024 at 1:47 AM, Gweiloman said:

When the conflict started 2 years ago, I stated that the it could be easily stopped by stopping supplies to Ukraine. It took some time for this moron to come to the same conclusion so my post was perfectly in context of what I was saying, 2 years ago.

Maybe you missed what he said as well.

. It has never been easy, but we have the moral responsibility of contributing to it because we are part of the problem. We created this problem one way or another, and we have a strong responsibility in trying to solve it.

This sentence was just before the quote I posted. To me, he was clearly referring to the expansion of NATO eastwards towards Russia, although many here will try to argue differently as they naively believe what they read in western media that this was an unprovoked conflict.

In any case, this idiot is a classic example of the hubris of the west. Remember this?

Europe is a garden. We have built a garden. Everything works. It is the best combination of political freedom, economic prosperity and social cohesion that the humankind has been able to build – the three things together," Borrell said during the event.

"The rest of the world," he went on, "is not exactly a garden. Most of the rest of the world is a jungle, and the jungle could invade the garden."

I had to look up who Borrell is, and seems he's just another EU time waster sucking on the taxpayers tit.

When they say things like "Europe is a garden. We have built a garden. Everything works. It is the best combination of political freedom, economic prosperity and social cohesion that the humankind has been able to build – the three things together," Borrell said during the event." one knows they are idiots that live in a bubble divorced from reality.

If Europe worked it wouldn't be full of people that hate everything the west is.

scottiejohn · May 12

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Missiles that can hit deep inside Russia are not defensive.

As I said before'

"Attack is the best form of defence"!

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