Kiwi brothers deny all charges, their parents speak out - March 19

[Goat]

17 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Rich people do not really go to jail".

Oh yes, they do, ask Joe Ferrari or the Chairman of Italian-Thai.

If you think they are actually in jail you are naive.

17 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

 

"They will be found guilty.  The then appeal and apply for bail (yes this happens in Thailand)"

Yes, that happens in most countries when appealing.

Nah

 

17 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

 

"You can run over the police in a Ferrari and be freed in Thailand.

If you have money".

As happens in most countries.  Being remanded in custody is not something that usually happens after traffic accidents, even fatal ones.

 

NAh

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

19 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

What IF the NZ Guys thought their life is in danger ???..   Better to be in serious trouble than dead, no ?

Why on earth would they think that? IMO they are just stupid thugs that thought they could do what they liked, and thought wrong.

 

If the NZ Guys have burned through a Police Check point and a policeman gives chase...

If that Policeman becomes crazed and angry and fires at them (twice), then they are going to believe their life is in grave danger. 

 

Running was the stupid thing to do. 

Grabbing for the gun may have saved their lives.

 

The video would appear to show that their (NZ Guys) sole intention is 'securing the gun'...  They are not hitting or beating the Police officer, the NZ guy has him a hold and is grappling for the gun which is then handed to the 2nd NZ Guy who then appears to make the gun safe (and doesn't point it at anyone). 

 

 

IMO:  The video shows two NZ Guys subduing a police officer who may well have shot them.... Clearly thats a very wrong thing do to in the eyes of the law, but have the NZ guys just saved their own lives ?

 

Sometimes a sitation may require extreme action, was this one of those situations ? 

Yes, they should have stopped...  the actions of the NZ guys at that point was stupid.  But, once the situation had escalated was securing the gun the right course of action ? it may well have been. 

 

 

 

[jvs]

14 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

In many countries a car license is valid for a small motorbike (<125cc engine). As only knowledge of traffic rules is required.

Not in Thailand and that is where we are.

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Smokin Joe said:

12 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

In many countries a car license is valid for a small motorbike (<125cc engine). As only knowledge of traffic rules is required.

Thailand is not one of those countries.

 

Agreed...  and 125cc is not a limit either... the limits on two wheeled endorsements is usually more specific but related to mopeds and scooters that have very low power (equivalent to a 50cc moped etc).

 

Whether the NZ had a license or not is irrelevant, they didn't stop when the police told them to...  Either because...

a) they ignored the request to pull over.

b) they didn't see the request to pull over.

[Freddy42OZ]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Time for rehabilitation. 😉

 

 

Best documentary ever.

[jvs]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

If the NZ Guys have burned through a Police Check point and a policeman gives chase...

If that Policeman becomes crazed and angry and fires at them (twice), then they are going to believe their life is in grave danger. 

 

Running was the stupid thing to do. 

Grabbing for the gun may have saved their lives.

 

The video would appear to show that their (NZ Guys) sole intention is 'securing the gun'...  They are not hitting or beating the Police officer, the NZ guy has him a hold and is grappling for the gun which is then handed to the 2nd NZ Guy who then appears to make the gun safe (and doesn't point it at anyone). 

 

 

IMO:  The video shows two NZ Guys subduing a police officer who may well have shot them.... Clearly thats a very wrong thing do to in the eyes of the law, but have the NZ guys just saved their own lives ?

 

Sometimes a sitation may require extreme action, was this one of those situations ? 

Yes, they should have stopped...  the actions of the NZ guys at that point was stupid.  But, once the situation had escalated was securing the gun the right course of action ? it may well have been. 

 

 

 

Just maybe you are right.

How often has any Thai police officer shot a tourist at a traffic stop?

I have lived here for a while now and have never heard of it.

Rich guys worried over a 500 baht fine?

More like arrogant and very stupid"Daddy will always be here to bail you out"

And yes just maybe they did not realize they needed to stop but they were chased down and stopped that way.

Maybe the police officer was worried about his safety and drew his gun?Did he?

Or did the two brothers decide to try and take it from him?

In any case these two guys are not very smart.

 

[jvs]

2 hours ago, mania said:

Could be true...My license is dual passenger vehicles & motor bikes but perhaps not all are.

 

But as they said in that clip too it is good they also go after rental agencies that rent to folks without showing proof of license

No that does not really work either,you can ask any bargirl to rent a bike in her name and off you go!

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, tgw said:

The video looks like the two disarmed the cop and waited for the police to arrive, they absolutely don't look like they were assaulting the cop.

 

I think it's fair to listen to their side of the story.

Their action was an assault. 

 

The public does not have the right to forcibly disarm a police officer particularly one who is in the process of trying to effect an arrest on that person.

[Liverpool Lou]

51 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

In many countries a car license is valid for a small motorbike (<125cc engine). As only knowledge of traffic rules is required.

Is that the case for Thailand and New Zealand?

[Liverpool Lou]

42 minutes ago, Goat said:

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Rich people do not really go to jail".

Oh yes, they do, ask Joe Ferrari or the Chairman of Italian-Thai.

If you think they are actually in jail you are naive.

You are misinformed.  Joe Ferrari is serving his sentence that he refused to appeal.  Let's hear it if you have any evidence that he has been released.

Premchai was recently released after serving his sentence in prison.

[Liverpool Lou]

46 minutes ago, Goat said:

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

 

"They will be found guilty.  The then appeal and apply for bail (yes this happens in Thailand)"

Yes, that happens in most countries when appealing.

Nah

Yes, it does.

[Jonathan Swift]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

Is that the case for Thailand and New Zealand?

Having been ticketed twice in Thailand for no license while on a small rental motorbike I can attest that you need a Thai motorbike license or International license including motorbike. In either case, it's so cheap and easy to get that it's a no brainer. But anyone that doesn't actually know how to ride, including a lot of stupid foreigners here, should not even consider driving without an actual license and having passed the necessary tests

[baansgr]

Money talks...what happened to the 2 french guys last year that attacked a Thai couple...nothing, and more recently what about the swiss guy whose visa finished a week ago, all gone quite there also 

[Liverpool Lou]

48 minutes ago, Goat said:

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

 

"You can run over the police in a Ferrari and be freed in Thailand.

If you have money".

As happens in most countries.  Being remanded in custody is not something that usually happens after traffic accidents, even fatal ones.

 

NAh

Yes, that is the way that it works, regardless of your ill-informed "Nahs".

Edited March 19 by Liverpool Lou

[Jonathan Swift]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You are misinformed.  Joe Ferrari is serving his sentence that he refused to appeal.  Let's hear it if you have any evidence that he has been released.

Premchai was recently released after serving his sentence in prison.

Oh, no, you won't see or hear any actual facts or evidence, that's beside the point. Never let the facts get in the way of a loud argument or ignorant statements

[BritScot]

3 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

So they had no licenses to drive in Thailand, rented motorcycles anyways, went speeding past a police officer, refused to stop for the police, were chased by the police officer, then somehow thought that wrestling the officer to the ground and taking his weapon was a good idea? Then they are also charged with trying to bribe the officer to look the other way, which didn't go as they thought it would, which is probably what escalated the situation. "The police officer was attacking them" defense is not going to fly, but nice try. Good luck getting out of jail, maybe Daddy Warbucks can find a higher up RTP officer that he can bribe to let his sons get out of the country, then everyone can declare it all a misunderstanding.

One side view.  99.9% of tourists who rent motorbikes. Starting to look like a shakedown gone wrong.

[Antti]

3 hours ago, mania said:

All else aside all this talk about driving without a license seems odd considering....
 

 

These guys 36 & 38 surely have NZ licenses

Do you automatically get a bike license in NZ if you have a car license? At least in my home country (nordic) that stopped in 1990, if I remember correctly. Nowadays many folks just have a car license but no bike license. If you want bike license you have to take a separate course + tests.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Money talks...what happened to the 2 french guys last year that attacked a Thai couple...nothing, and more recently what about the swiss guy whose visa finished a week ago, all gone quite there also 

He has been allowed to remain here even though his visa has expired/not renewed pending the criminal cases that he is facing.

[VocalNeal]

3 hours ago, mania said:

All else aside all this talk about driving without a license seems odd considering....
 

 

These guys 36 & 38 surely have NZ licenses

 

Yes, but did they have International Driving Permits.  Oh that part of the law slipped by them as they are entitled daddy's boys and think they can flaunt other country's laws at will. Were their NZ licenses also for motorcycles? If yes they why did they run?

 

What is the Kiwi term for bogan🤔

[gomangosteen]

2 minutes ago, Antti said:

Do you automatically get a bike license in NZ if you have a car license? At least in my home country (nordic) that stopped in 1990, if I remember correctly. Nowadays many folks just have a car license but no bike license. If you want bike license you have to take a separate course + tests.

No

 

NZ - completely separate licences

 

Begin with a Learner motorcycle licence (theory and basic handling skills test) which allows the person to have further lessons with a full licence holder or professional instructor; after a minimum six months take a practical test, if passed person moves to a Restricted Licence which and has restrictions on hours (5am-10pm only), no pillion, and limited cc/power, then have a further practical test to gain a full licence - this is to be completed within two years of the initial Learners test. 

[Jonathan Swift]

3 hours ago, mania said:

All else aside all this talk about driving without a license seems odd considering....
 

 

These guys 36 & 38 surely have NZ licenses

If the license does not specify  motorbike it is not valid for motorbike. A very commonly mistaken assumption is that you don't need a specific motorbike license; you do. And it's required that you CARRY the license, do we know if they had their licenses on their person? Also, that quote may be incomplete or out of date. Laws change. 

[cdemundo]

3 hours ago, tgw said:

Everyone should watch the video before commenting:

 

The video looks like the two disarmed the cop and waited for the police to arrive, they absolutely don't look like they were assaulting the cop.

 

I think it's fair to listen to their side of the story.

 

Cops or soldiers pulling out guns, even shooting in the air and behaving erratically is common in Thailand.

 

Also, I wonder how the car chase looked and what happened then, knowing what actions are usually taken by cops here, the car chase may well be characterized as attempted murder if the cop tried to ram their scooter.

 

Speculations, let's wait to hear their side of the story.

"The video looks like the two disarmed the cop and waited for the police to arrive, they absolutely don't look like they were assaulting the cop."

 

They disarmed the cop without assaulting him?

Using hypnosis I'm gonna guess.

 

Additionally, "disarmed the cop and waited for the police to arrive"; uhhmmm makes no sense.

[wwest5829]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

When a Thai commits a crime they somehow always confess. Bet the police aren't used to dealing with a plea of innocent.

The reason for the confesión is tied to a reduced penalty. Wonder if these two know this?well, doesn’t matter … they declared that they are innocent.

[cardinalblue]

3 hours ago, steven100 said:

 

I tend to agree ....  their behavior was disgraceful, more training is required.

 

and you have to admit .....  this has $$$ signs flashing all over it ...   a nice pre-Songkran bonus coming up   !!

would you say this in an open case in the West? Are you not saying that corruption exists in the Thai police force? Are you not disrespecting the Royal Thai police?

[borderhopper2005]

2 offenders denying their charges while what they did to the cop was clearly filmed?

Typical sick mentality of the western criminals; utterly convinced self-justification saves their asses in any cases.  Even if there are heaps of evidence. Truly disgusting thugs.

Edited March 19 by borderhopper2005

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, borderhopper2005 said:

2 offenders denying their charges while what they did to the cop was clearly filmed?

Typical sick mentality of the western criminals; utterly convinced self-justification saves their asses. Even if there are heaps of evidence. Truly disgusting thugs.

 

What did they 'do to the cop' ???.... 

 

What I see clearly filmed is one guy disarming and subduing a police officer... that was not an assault etc... 

 

... Wrong yes, but we don't have the full facts or circumstances leading up top that, we are only presented with one side of the built up story. 

 

 

-----

 

What do you do if someone pulls a weapon and you think they are going to use it on you ?

 

I'm not defending the NZ guys for fleeing..... But, in the video I don't see evidence of the NZ guys in an attacking rage either. I see what could be argued as a measured reaction to disarm the Police officer and make his weapon safe. 

 

Why did the NZ guy choose to take that course of action ??...     

You believe its because the NZ guys are disgusting thug with a sick mentality of western criminals...  

I suspect there is more to the story regarding the specific reason the NZ felt he had little choice but to wrestle with the Police Officer. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, Freddy42OZ said:

Best documentary ever.

That film was released in 2006.

Someone had a good idea about the future. But they thought it would take 500 years. A very wrong estimation...

 

[MartinBangkok]

Safety of all people in Thailand? So if a Thai man kills a policeman (Red bull-case), what happens?

And if a Thai person (should be plural) beats a farang, are there any other consequences than a 500 Baht fine?

[tgw]

4 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Their action was an assault. 

 

The public does not have the right to forcibly disarm a police officer particularly one who is in the process of trying to effect an arrest on that person.

 

My opinion is that the public has the right to disarm a police officer if the unwarranted behaviour of the cop causes a self-defense situation, for example by drawing a weapon and pointing it on someone during a verbal altercation.

Edited March 19 by tgw

[tgw]

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

"The video looks like the two disarmed the cop and waited for the police to arrive, they absolutely don't look like they were assaulting the cop."

 

They disarmed the cop without assaulting him?

Using hypnosis I'm gonna guess.

 

Additionally, "disarmed the cop and waited for the police to arrive"; uhhmmm makes no sense.

 

The short video shows two men restraining a cop and wringing his weapon from him without hitting him.

To me it looks like they wanted the weapon to be out of the cop's reach until his colleagues arrived.

But it's a short video and I might be wrong.

 

But so far we only heard the cop's version of events.

 

And yes, there is no assault in a self-defense situation.