Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Please pardon me if someone else has asked this question before, only I have been unwell and sometimes find it difficult to focus/concentrate, so have not been following this "personal income tax" thread very closely at all.

I checked my Bangkok Bank account, in which I have the 800 K invested for "retirement" purposes and noticed that tax has been deducted on the interest earned, so does that mean that somewhere in the system I have a TIN?? And if so, how to find it – – I suppose I could ask the bank??

Any help would be much appreciated. 

 

Unless you applied for and received a TIN, you almost certainly don't have one. Tax would have been deducted automatically by the bank. It's easy enough to get one so when you feel better, go down to the TRD office with your passport and tell them you need one to reclaim tax paid.

 

I hope you get better soon.

 

 

[xylophone]

24 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Unless you applied for and received a TIN, you almost certainly don't have one. Tax would have been deducted automatically by the bank. It's easy enough to get one so when you feel better, go down to the TRD office with your passport and tell them you need one to reclaim tax paid.

 

I hope you get better soon.

 

 

Many thanks for your speedy reply Chiang Mai, and I will do exactly what you suggest, very shortly.

 

I am slowly getting better, however the effects of the severe concussion do seem to "come and go" with regards to memory, and the fractured coccyx still gives me some pain unfortunately. 

 

Anyway I will locate the nearest TRD office and pay them a visit.

 

Once again thank you for your reply. 

[jwest10]

On 4/21/2024 at 6:06 AM, Mike Lister said:

I will update the guide in a couple of places to reflect that we now understand that penalties can be levied for not filing a tax return, when the threshold has been exceeded but there is no tax to pay. Previously we had been told repeatedly that there was no penalty, we now know that there is a THB 2,000 fine but it is unclear whether it is actually levied. 

 

"the consequences of an individual tax resident not filing a PND90/91 tax return, if he/she has income over 120k but not enough to pay tax is that there is a fine of up to 2,000 baht for this under Section 35 of the RC.  Section 17 is the relevant section in the context of Section 35". 

 

In practise, I don't believe this change in our understanding will impact anyone this year but it is something that should be considered in January next year.

 

Current forms titled Income Tax  on Employment

[OJAS]

On 9/7/2024 at 11:09 AM, xylophone said:

 

Anyway I will locate the nearest TRD office and pay them a visit.

 

Hopefully the following link will assist you in identifying the relevant area revenue office in your case:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/337.html

 

I would also strongly advise you to get a native Thai speaker to accompany you on your visit since, based on my experience of obtaining a TIN a few months ago, staff at TRD area revenue offices tend to have a minimal (at best) grasp of the English language. There is a highly complex and detailed form which needs to be completed exclusively in the Thai language as part of the process.

 

Edited September 8 by OJAS

[xylophone]

31 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

Hopefully the following link will assist you in identifying the relevant area revenue office in your case:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/337.html

 

I would also strongly advise you to get a native Thai speaker to accompany you on your visit since, based on my experience of obtaining a TIN a few months ago, staff at TRD area revenue offices tend to have a minimal (at best) grasp of the English language. There is a highly complex and detailed form which needs to be completed exclusively in the Thai language as part of the process.

 

Many thanks for this OJAS and also thanks to another poster, chiang mai, as you have both been very helpful.

 

As per your suggestion I will take along my Thai daughter, who is currently domiciled in Phuket town after finishing university, and I'm meeting up with her on Wednesday after going to hospital for another checkup, so a quick visit after the hospital, should be fairly easy (hopefully).

 

Also, do I need to take along some proof of where I am currently domiciled (address etc)? Sorry to ask but my memory now after the concussion is terrible.

 

Many thanks, Xylo

[DocTom]

Mike Lister, your information is hugely helpful. Many thanks.

I am a UK citizen, retired and living in Thailand for 20 years. I am approaching dotage now, and completing a Thai tax return will be difficult for me. So I am interested in firms that provide such services. One such is ExPattax Thailand. They have many useful videos.
My question is : do you or other posters know of other companies offering tax return services for individuals (not companies), perhaps with any views or experiences, and approximate costs?
DocTom.

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, DocTom said:

Mike Lister, your information is hugely helpful. Many thanks.

I am a UK citizen, retired and living in Thailand for 20 years. I am approaching dotage now, and completing a Thai tax return will be difficult for me. So I am interested in firms that provide such services. One such is ExPattax Thailand. They have many useful videos.
My question is : do you or other posters know of other companies offering tax return services for individuals (not companies), perhaps with any views or experiences, and approximate costs?
DocTom.

 

My view on this is that everyone should wait until after the new tax forms and instructions are released, which I understand will be around November or possibly December. There are many open questions regarding what will be required and even tax consultants and Big 4 don't have all the answers yet. It is possible that the news release at the end of the year might change the tax landscape for foreigners but I can't imagine how.

 

There are lots of Thai CPA's around who will prepare taxes for you and the cost seems to run from 7,500 upwards. Finding somebody who is qualified and truly knows what they are doing is a different matter and will require you to ask around for references from people you know and trust. 

 

Sorry I can't be more helpful but everyone is in a wait and see mode at present. The Revenue does have a list of businesses that can enter tax returns online but whether or not they will actually complete the forms also is unclear. One very solid option is if you have uncomplicated tax affairs, you can take your numbers to the local Revenue office and ask them to enter the information for you, they are typically most helpful in this regard and there is no cost involved, 

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

3 hours ago, DocTom said:

Mike Lister, your information is hugely helpful. Many thanks.

I am a UK citizen, retired and living in Thailand for 20 years. I am approaching dotage now, and completing a Thai tax return will be difficult for me. So I am interested in firms that provide such services. One such is ExPattax Thailand. They have many useful videos.
My question is : do you or other posters know of other companies offering tax return services for individuals (not companies), perhaps with any views or experiences, and approximate costs?
DocTom.

Expand  

 

My view on this is that everyone should wait until after the new tax forms and instructions are released, which I understand will be around November or possibly December. There are many open questions regarding what will be required and even tax consultants and Big 4 don't have all the answers yet. It is possible that the news release at the end of the year might change the tax landscape for foreigners but I can't imagine how.

 

There are lots of Thai CPA's around who will prepare taxes for you and the cost seems to run from 7,500 upwards. Finding somebody who is qualified and truly knows what they are doing is a different matter and will require you to ask around for references from people you know and trust. 

 

Sorry I can't be more helpful but everyone is in a wait and see mode at present. The Revenue does have a list of businesses that can enter tax returns online but whether or not they will actually complete the forms also is unclear. One very solid option is if you have uncomplicated tax affairs, you can take your numbers to the local Revenue office and ask them to enter the information for you, they are typically most helpful in this regard and there is no cost involved, 

You've just betrayed yourself chiang maike 😆

[chiang mai]

13 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

You've just betrayed yourself chiang maike 😆

Don't be stupid. Lister hasn't posted in this forum in months, somebody had to answer the poster.

[Yumthai]

5 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

20 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

You've just betrayed yourself chiang maike 😆

Don't be stupid. Lister hasn't posted in this forum in months, somebody had to answer the poster.

Sure, and that somebody had to be you 🤣

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Sure, and that somebody had to be you 🤣

 

I'm out of patience at being trolled on this issue by stupid people, welcome to my ignore list.

[OJAS]

On 9/8/2024 at 2:25 PM, xylophone said:

Also, do I need to take along some proof of where I am currently domiciled (address etc)? Sorry to ask but my memory now after the concussion is terrible.

 

Sorry, xylo, missed out on answering this query until now. Unless you've already been to your Area Revenue Office for a TIN, I suggest that you ask your Thai daughter to call them on this point. I certainly wasn't required to provide any proof of address at my Area Revenue Office, but, as in the case of Immigration, what goes at one particular office may not necessarily fly at another, I strongly suspect!

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

I'm out of patience at being trolled on this issue by stupid people, welcome to my ignore list.

 

Know the feeling! I have included no fewer than 4 idiots in an Ignore list which I have created specially for them. 

[OJAS]

@xylophone - in case it's still of any use to you, below is a link to the highly detailed and complex form that needs to be completed in the Thai language I referred to previously:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/tax_pdf/request/lp10.1_110355.pdf

 

[OJAS]

17 hours ago, chiang mai said:

One very solid option is if you have uncomplicated tax affairs, you can take your numbers to the local Revenue office and ask them to enter the information for you, they are typically most helpful in this regard and there is no cost involved, 

 

As far as I am concerned, if we choose to submit our returns in paper form on form PND90 or PND91 as appropriate, then our local area revenue offices are duty-bound to accept them in this form, and they therefore should not IMHO be regarded as benevolently bestowing any special favours on us as a result. If, for instance, my local office were to refuse to accept my completed paper PND91 (my sole source of assessable income being the UK State Pension which, in any event, should be fully covered by existing allowances and exemptions) in the first 3 months of 2025, then it would be my intention to mail it by EMS to TRD's Bangkok HQ under cover of a suitable explanatory letter written in English.

Edited October 4 by OJAS

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

As far as I am concerned, if we choose to submit our returns in paper form on form PND90 or PND91 as appropriate, then our local area revenue offices are duty-bound to accept them in this form, and they therefore should not IMHO be regarded as benevolently bestowing any special favours on us as a result. If, for instance, my local office were to refuse to accept my completed paper PND91 (my sole source of assessable income being the UK State Pension which, in any event, should be fully covered by existing allowances and exemptions) in the first 3 months of 2025, then it would be my intention to mail it by EMS to TRD's Bangkok HQ under cover of a suitable explanatory letter written in English.

You'll be just fine with the paper copy in English, that can't be refused at this stage.

[hereforgood]

Just saw this a great read thank you very much I have only us Social Security coming in monthly I have it deposited to my US Bank and I transfer it with wise every month or two happy to see that the Social Security payments are not considered income or taxable thank you again. By the way I do understand that things can change

[chiang mai]

Cross posted for exposure and information purposes:

 

I started building my taxes spreadsheet last month so I will know in advance where I will end up at year end and have time to adjust things as necessary to minimize tax. My finances are fairly simple, three pensions from two countries, rental income, investments and savings. I file a UK and Thai return (or at least I may file a Thai return).

 

By mixing and matching my income sources, I can earn a decent amount of income each month but avoid any tax, at least I can the way the rules are written currently. The first nine months of the year are behind us so I have those actual numbers, the remaining three months are estimated and monitored. Somebody somewhere may get something useful out of this to help them better understand their tax situation or maybe even help provide some tips regarding strategy.

 

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Cross posted for exposure and information purposes:

 

I started building my taxes spreadsheet last month so I will know in advance where I will end up at year end and have time to adjust things as necessary to minimize tax. My finances are fairly simple, three pensions from two countries, rental income, investments and savings. I file a UK and Thai return (or at least I may file a Thai return).

 

By mixing and matching my income sources, I can earn a decent amount of income each month but avoid any tax, at least I can the way the rules are written currently. The first nine months of the year are behind us so I have those actual numbers, the remaining three months are estimated and monitored. Somebody somewhere may get something useful out of this to help them better understand their tax situation or maybe even help provide some tips regarding strategy.

 

Yeah but meanwhile, my finances are SUPER simple - US govt civil service pension (nonassessable to Thailand, Have an LTR so exempted there too even if the DTA didn't cover my income.  I have no other assessable income so everythiing I remit into Thailand is non taxable.  But I am sure some folks will look at your spreadsheet and see something familiar which might help them out.  I do wish all a happy tax season - hopefully we will not be affected much anyway.  

[bosphorus]

Is there any good posts/thread giving typical example scenarios. I spent 15 minutes reading it expecting to understand if I sell stock in the US (e.g. 100K USD), pay capital gains in the US (mostly at 15% rate), then do I:
1. owe anything to Thailand

2. need to 'do' anything (file a silly form)

Similarly, I collect US rental income. I keep it in the states, but I can see a future where I decide to transfer something to Thailand (e.g. paying down a loan). If it's already been taxed in the US, how do I figure out my tax burden (if any) in Thailand? (or even perhaps getting tax credits back to the US)
 

Another example

If I send 5M Thai Baht to USA only then to send back a similar amount (say 4.5M THB), because maybe I changed my mind or I just needed the cash quickly to secure a property, then do I need to pay tax on that (and file a silly form of similar).

 

Thanks

[Presnock]

8 hours ago, bosphorus said:

Is there any good posts/thread giving typical example scenarios. I spent 15 minutes reading it expecting to understand if I sell stock in the US (e.g. 100K USD), pay capital gains in the US (mostly at 15% rate), then do I:
1. owe anything to Thailand

2. need to 'do' anything (file a silly form)

Similarly, I collect US rental income. I keep it in the states, but I can see a future where I decide to transfer something to Thailand (e.g. paying down a loan). If it's already been taxed in the US, how do I figure out my tax burden (if any) in Thailand? (or even perhaps getting tax credits back to the US)
 

Another example

If I send 5M Thai Baht to USA only then to send back a similar amount (say 4.5M THB), because maybe I changed my mind or I just needed the cash quickly to secure a property, then do I need to pay tax on that (and file a silly form of similar).

 

Thanks

First of all, nothing  that you read on this forum about taxes is guaranteed since basically it comes down to the Thai Revenue Department to come out with the final tax forms for 2024 - then we will see how they interpret any "assessable" income based on a Double Taxation Agreement if they have one with your country.  I take it that you are an American citizen and thus will have to pay taxes on any income but it would be to your advantage if you read the DTA with Thailand which is available just by googling that or going to the Thai Revenue Department website in ENGLISH to see what they do say about DTA's about assessable income etc.  That is a start but as you have been able to see from this forum, they are a multitude fo questions still and even if you go to a local tax agent (a farang) such as "expattaxthailand.com" they have webinars on pension income taxation, the DTA with various countries, and other webinars - if oneis already on a subject you are interested in, you can view a video and they give a 15-min free consultation.  If however you have a lot of questions and a varied income situation, it probably could not be done in the 15 minutes.  This tax agent too is looking to get paid for helping farangs fill out the tax forms early next calendar year - (January 1- 31 March 2025) for this year's taxes so like I say if you have a diverse income the only real way to know what to do is to wait until the revenue department puts out the new forms in Nov or Dec, the sooner the better for folks so one will begin to understand just what will be needed.  You can see all the charts that many people have searched and found, plus Mile Lister has done an unbelievable job of putting it all together MANY times and along with a couple of other volunteers, (I learned all about my taxes from these guys or where to find that information that I needed to do my share) remember, it will be up to the individual to file the tax forms, as of now there is no plan that anyone has heard of that the Revenue Dept will be out here looking for particular individuals.   The revenue website can also provide you with the charts on the assessable incomes, deductions, expemptions or whatever.  The only visa providing any exemption to date is the Long Term Resident (LTR) visa.  If you spend 180 days in a calendar year 1 Jan-31 Dec) then you are a "Tax Resident" and if you have assessable income (dfefined by the revenue dept) then you are required to get a Thai tax number and file for taxes.  I am income taxation ignorant to say the least but I do understand the DTA , US civil sevice pension, US social security and if you have a question regarding them, then I feel confident I can explain to you but anything other than that, many will provide you with a GUESS on exactly how the revenue department will decide.  Remember that the Revenue Dept is a Thai organization, their laws are written in Thai and something could easily be missed in the translation to ENGLISH.  GOOD Luck and just about every tax possiblity has been guessed at over the past year or so.  Good Luck.

[Captain Flack]

An off topic post and reply, which offers nothing to the discussion, just a personal attack has been removed.

[topt]

17 hours ago, bosphorus said:

Is there any good posts/thread giving typical example scenarios. I spent 15 minutes reading it expecting to understand

This topic has been going on now for over a year with conservatively, across many threads, probably well over 5000 posts and you "expect" to have answers to your specific questions after reading for a whole 15 minutes......

 

If you are lucky @JimGant may pop along and give a view as he is somewhat experienced in US tax matters.

[Presnock]

19 minutes ago, topt said:

This topic has been going on now for over a year with conservatively, across many threads, probably well over 5000 posts and you "expect" to have answers to your specific questions after reading for a whole 15 minutes......

 

If you are lucky @JimGant may pop along and give a view as he is somewhat experienced in US tax matters.

Mike Lister is another who has done a lot of work, but the US DTA is a lot clearer but again, most of us are reading the English translations which the Thai Revenue Department will be the final authority on assessable income but remember, most people are just guessing what the final forms will look like this year...good luck in your search but many repeats repeats repeats repeats over and over again.  

[topt]

2 minutes ago, Presnock said:

good luck in your search

Pray tell me what you think I am searching for..........?

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, topt said:

Pray tell me what you think I am searching for..........?

Inner peace, the meaning of life, the winning lottery numbers.....am I close?

[xylophone]

16 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Mike Lister is another who has done a lot of work,

Also my thanks to @chiang mai who has been a great help..........we are lucky to have these helpful folk as posters who are willing to help.

[jwest10]

On 10/4/2024 at 3:21 PM, chiang mai said:

Cross posted for exposure and information purposes:

 

I started building my taxes spreadsheet last month so I will know in advance where I will end up at year end and have time to adjust things as necessary to minimize tax. My finances are fairly simple, three pensions from two countries, rental income, investments and savings. I file a UK and Thai return (or at least I may file a Thai return).

 

By mixing and matching my income sources, I can earn a decent amount of income each month but avoid any tax, at least I can the way the rules are written currently. The first nine months of the year are behind us so I have those actual numbers, the remaining three months are estimated and monitored. Somebody somewhere may get something useful out of this to help them better understand their tax situation or maybe even help provide some tips regarding strategy.

 

Why are you including US and UK you get both?

[chiang mai]

13 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Why are you including US and UK you get both?

Yes, I'm greedy.

[jwest10]

6 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Yes, I'm greedy.

Yes lol but some figures do not add up but who knows still early