1 hour ago, jayboy said:

I have no special insight or knowledge.However if I was pressed, I would guess that there will eventually be a tax clearance requirement to secure retirement  visa rights.But I could be completely wrong.

Yet another doom monger with no FACTS!

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

I think so also,

So you do not know it as a fact!

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

I have no special insight or knowledge.However if I was pressed, I would guess that there will eventually be a tax clearance requirement to secure retirement  visa rights.But I could be completely wrong.

I agree. 

 

When news broke about this tax enforcement, many members questioned how can they "chase" foreigners for tax, all over Thailand? 

 

It was so obvious that there was no need for the Thai government to chase any foreigners as they already make the foreigners come to them with 90 day reporting and an annual visa / extension.

 

Soooooooo many post were deleted by the Mods at the time as "scaremongering" but so many members agreed, as I do, that this is the simplest way for the Thai government to collect either legitimate tax, or "tea money" from foreigners.   Now, we are allowed to discuss the possibility.  I am not sure what changed, but we can discuss it now. 

 

As I said some time ago.  A tax clearance certificate could go the way like the Certificate of Residence.   It is free, but most pay 300 baht for it.  Maybe just another Thai government department want their 300 baht off hundreds of thousands of foreigners as another little earner for a piece of paper, and, for high net worth individuals, they can invoke the law for a lot more money.  

 

We will see early next year how it plays out. 

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

I have no special insight or knowledge.However if I was pressed, I would guess that there will eventually be a tax clearance requirement to secure retirement  visa rights.But I could be completely wrong.

 

I hope such won't be required for 1-year extensions of Type-O/OA visas.

 

The 'tax clearance certificate' is already on the books, albeit it was put in place years ago for those departing Thailand (and not put in place for annual extensions).

 

Once can read about the certificate here on the Thai Revenue Department page:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html

 

While the certificate still exists on line, some time back (long before my moving to Thailand in 2019) its enforcement was stopped.

 

Requiring such for an extension would mean more work for everyone ... more work for the Expat, more work for the Revenue department, and more work for immigration.  So hopefully that will discourage any thought to tuning the certificate for extension approvals and discourage any implementation.

.

8 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Requiring such for an extension would mean more work for everyone ..

And more money for the Thai's.

 

8 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

more work for the Expat,

They don't care.

 

8 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

more work for the Revenue department,

The farang will pay, so it will be worth it.

 

8 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

and more work for immigration. 

Once again, the farang will pay, so it will be worth it. 

 

8 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

So hopefully that will discourage any thought to tuning the certificate for extension approvals and discourage any implementation.

Money Number One.  No discouragement there. 

 

So many member come up with ideas as to why they will not do it, but miss the very obvious as to why they very well may do it, and that is, MONEY, and it's easy money for them, so why wouldn't they do it????

9 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

So many member come up with ideas as to why they will not do it, but miss the very obvious as to why they very well may do it, and that is, MONEY, and it's easy money for them, so why wouldn't they do it????

 

We will need to wait and see.

 

MANY predicted Type-O non-immigrant visa route would follow the path of the Type-OA visa and require health insurance.  Opinions on this were INCREDIBLY STRONG.

 

Has it happened yet?  No.

 

Could a Tax Clearance Certificate happen for 1-year annual extensions happen?  Possibly.  And possibly not.  This is Thailand and I have no predictions.

 

I think we will need to wait and see.

11 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Soooooooo many post were deleted by the Mods at the time as "scaremongering"

 

Not only were posts deleted, they were also ' edited ' by an unknown entity 😀😀 who was not the original poster of the comment.

 

Thankfully, I am not the only one who has recognised this.

11 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

We will see early next year how it plays out. 

I predict nothing will happen early next year, apart from more predictions.

The Thai government clearly has little interest in advancing the initial announcement by a government nobody, all subsequent discussions were fueled by speculation from foreigner owned (probably illegal but definitely shady) financial companies trying to extract money from the 'at risk' elderly foreign retirees.

I maintain a spreadsheet throughout the year that let's me know what my tax position is going to be at year end, in the different territories where I file a return. As time passes, I update forecasted numbers with actuals, that way I have a pretty good idea how much latitude I have to take discretionary payments from my self invested pension etc. It's useful also because a transaction that impacts one tax return usually has an impact on the other ones.

 

I recently added another entity, the impact of World Wide taxation, and was pleasantly surprised. Everyone's finances will be different but in my case, the tax exempt US SSc income takes a lot of the sting out of WWT which is kinda unfair for those who don't benefit from DTA's. The net for me is a small amount of tax to pay each year under WWi vs today when I pay zero tax, using the same income levels. It's worth crunching the numbers, if you haven't already done so, you may be pleasantly surprised. 

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I predict nothing will happen early next year, apart from more predictions.

The Thai government clearly has little interest in advancing the initial announcement by a government nobody.

Ah yes, still waiting for your personal invitation to file a return, sent to your home address I see, along with a handy information booklet that answers all your questions.....just like back home!

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Ah yes, still waiting for your personal invitation to file a return, sent to your home address I see, along with a handy information booklet that answers all your questions.....just like back home!

Back home the UK government deduct directly from my pensions before payment, I only need to file forms if I dispute their deductions (which I have done around 3x in my lifetime), and they refund directly to my bank within 2 weeks. 

I receive about 13000 Euro (460.000 baht) pension in my home country, which has a DTA and I don't remit any money to Thailand.

I don't get taxed on that in my home country, because it is below the minimum.

In the event that Thailand start to implement world wide taxation, will I have to pay tax on it?

6 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

In the event that Thailand start to implement world wide taxation, will I have to pay tax on it?

Your guess would be as good as anyone else's guess.

Just now, BritManToo said:

Your guess would be as good as anyone else's guess.

 

I didn't make a guess. I posted a question

5 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

I receive about 13000 Euro (460.000 baht) pension in my home country, which has a DTA and I don't remit any money to Thailand.

I don't get taxed on that in my home country, because it is below the minimum.

In the event that Thailand start to implement world wide taxation, will I have to pay tax on it?

If you are over age 65 and that 460k baht is your total income remitted to Thailand, it's unlikely it will be taxed here. 

 

EDIT TO ADD: Sorry, didn't answer your question properly.

 

Yes, that income will be accountable to Thai tax, when added to all your other income for the year. Depending on the final total, it may or may mot be taxable.

5 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

I didn't make a guess. I posted a question

There is no information, so your question is currently unanswerable, any answers will be guesses.

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

There is no information, so your question is currently unanswerable, any answers will be guesses.

You want information? Here, fill your boots, it's all in there.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37748.html

8 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

I receive about 13000 Euro (460.000 baht) pension in my home country, which has a DTA and I don't remit any money to Thailand.

I don't get taxed on that in my home country, because it is below the minimum.

In the event that Thailand start to implement world wide taxation, will I have to pay tax on it?

 

If Thailand moved to world wide taxation, then there would still be allowances, deductions and exemptions available, that would probably mean that you paid nothing, or a token amount on €1300 a month.

 

Dont worry about things that are not currently happening.

5 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

If you are over age 65 and that 460k baht is your total income remitted to Thailand, it's unlikely it will be taxed here. 

 

EDIT TO ADD: Sorry, didn't answer your question properly.

 

Yes, that income will be accountable to Thai tax, when added to all your other income for the year. Depending on the final total, it may or may mot be taxable.

 

As pointed out in my post, I don't remit any money to Thailand in the foreseeable future, and my pension is my only income.

But my understanding is that 460.000 baht is more than what I can deduct in Thailand to be tax free.

So does the DTA cover me, because it is not taxable in my home country.

5 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

As pointed out in my post, I don't remit any money to Thailand in the foreseeable future, and my pension is my only income.

But my understanding is that 460.000 baht is more than what I can deduct in Thailand to be tax free.

So does the DTA cover me, because it is not taxable in my home country.

 

If you do not remit your pension to Thailand, it is not assessable or taxable in Thailand. The DTA is meaningless.

 

The DTA will only come into play should you remit that pension to Thaialnd.

31 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

t's worth crunching the numbers, if you haven't already done so, you may be pleasantly surprised. 

 

How can you crunch the numbers if Thailand moved to World wide taxation without the slightest idea of what deductions & exemptions may, or may not, be available, should they go down that route ?

11 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

As pointed out in my post, I don't remit any money to Thailand in the foreseeable future, and my pension is my only income.

But my understanding is that 460.000 baht is more than what I can deduct in Thailand to be tax free.

So does the DTA cover me, because it is not taxable in my home country.

You would have to read the DTA to answer that question, the fact it is tax free in your home country doesn't necessarily mean anything in Thailand.

Just now, The Cyclist said:

 

How can you crunch the numbers if Thailand moved to World wide taxation without the slightest idea of what deductions & exemptions may, or may not, be available, should they go down that route ?

I modelled it using existing TRD TEDA, in the absence of anything else.

9 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

If you do not remit your pension to Thailand, it is not assessable or taxable in Thailand. The DTA is meaningless.

 

The DTA will only come into play should you remit that pension to Thaialnd.

 

I'm well aware that it currently isn't taxable as long as I don't remit, and that was also why I asked IF wwt is implemented

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I modelled it using existing TRD TEDA, in the absence of anything else.

 

As long as it made you happy 😀😀

 

Me, I'll wait until such times as they announce moving to world wide taxation and what the nuts & bolts are.

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

As long as it made you happy 😀😀

 

Me, I'll wait until such times as they announce moving to world wide taxation and what the nuts & bolts are.

Of course it's not the definitive answer but it's not a bad indicator of direction and will help me better understand what steps I might want to take before it is implemented.

2 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

I'm well aware that it currently isn't taxable as long as I don't remit,

 

Then why ask Questions about a DTA ?
 

If Thialand implements worldwide taxation, DTA's will probably be consigned to history and a whole new set of rules will be written.

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Then why ask Questions about a DTA ?
 

If Thialand implements worldwide taxation, DTA's will probably be consigned to history and a whole new set of rules will be written.

 

Why omit part of my post to make it fit your AGENDA?

 

7 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

that was also why I asked IF wwt is implemented

 

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Of course it's not the definitive answer but it's not a bad indicator of direction and will help me better understand what steps I might want to take before it is implemented.

 

Sure, play away with hypotheticals to your hearts content, if thats your thing.

 

I don't think it is a good idea to introduce those hypotheticals to a tax thread, where some people appear to be struggling with the here and now, with only a few days left to the end of the 2024 tax year.

34 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

In the event that Thailand start to implement world wide taxation, will I have to pay tax on it?

What does your DTA say? Most DTAs would prevent Thailand from taxing a pension paid for past govt service ('tho there are exceptions, like Norway). And most DTAs would give Thailand primary taxation rights on private pensions ('tho, again, there are exceptions -- like Canada).

 

And, under world wide taxation, it makes no difference whether or not subject income is remitted.