65K Monthly Method for Retirement Visa

[KannikaP]

14 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Tell her. Not me.

At 50 without income letter you have option for funds in bank method. 

 

I was eligible for income stream at 55.

However did not require that. 

The OP is on about 65k per month method.

Of course we all know that you can put 800k in the bank at 50 and get Retirement Extension.

And I did say that, as you were, one is eligible for a Private Pension stream at 55 if you have a qualifying policy, in UK anyway.

Edited April 15 by KannikaP

[soisanuk]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

Up to u but this is the reference to "proof" actually 'evidence' at (3)

 

ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU
No. 327/2557
Subject: Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien’s Application
for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

 

 

The above is the rule for "extensions," not for application for a Non-Immigrant O Visa.  The rules for granting a Non-O Visa for purpose of retirement are:

 

Quote

 

DOCUMENTS TO BE SUBMITTED MORE THAN 15 DAYS BEFORE VISA EXPIRATION
IN SUPPORT OF THE APPLICATION FOR VISA OR VISA STATUS ALTERATION FOR 90 DAYS
IF YOU HAVE OVERSTAYED, YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATIONFOR THIS TYPE OF VISA.

 

5.1 Present passbook and deposit certificate from banks in Thailand (in Thai language (Attention: Immigration Commissioner))
52 Copy of all entries of the applicants passbook showing that the applicant has a savings or fixed deposit account of not less than Baht 800,000 (all documents must be in the Applicant’s name)
5.3 Evidence of foreign currency fund transferred to Thailand

     or     
A letter of guarantee from the local or overseas Embassy or Consulate that proving the monthly pension of the Applicant not less than Baht 65,000 per month (together with reference documents showing the source of monthly pension)
     or     
Evidence of deposited money under Clause 5 and evidence of income under Clause 6 (for one year) showing the total amount not less than Baht 800,000
Rental Agreement between the Applicant and the Landlord ; A copy of house registration. Location map of the house and a rental receipt Past three months.

 

 

 

 

 

If using the 65k per month method, a letter from your Embassy is required. Thus, those from USA, UK, and Australia cannot meet this requirement as those Embassies no longer issue such letters. 

Edited April 15 by soisanuk

[Wrwest]

20 hours ago, Chivas said:

 

Surely there must be proof that it does indeed come from retirement pension income ??

 

Otherwise as someone already mentioned you could just send 65k a month to yourself ??

I have used the 65K baht transferred from abroad into my Bangkok bank Act. since retiring in Chiang Mai in 2011. As an American no longer able to use a statement from the Embassy. I have never been asked the source of my USA funds (retirement, SS, rent income, etc.).

[xylophone]

16 minutes ago, Wrwest said:

I have used the 65K baht transferred from abroad into my Bangkok bank Act. since retiring in Chiang Mai in 2011. As an American no longer able to use a statement from the Embassy. I have never been asked the source of my USA funds (retirement, SS, rent income, etc.).

That was the same as me in my situation.......until the IO got stroppy with me and "demanded" that I use the 800k in the bank method, which I promptly did, so as not to cause any problems with them. 

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, soisanuk said:

If using the 65k per month method, a letter from your Embassy is required. Thus, those from USA, UK, and Australia cannot meet this requirement as those Embassies no longer issue such letters. 

 

100% correct in the case of non-O visa conversions for retirement. For the benefit of the individual(s) who appear(s) to be suffering from a bout of confusion in reaction to your post, this is IMHO perfectly clear from the official guidance which has been issued by the Immigration Bureau:

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/9.FOR-RETIREMENT-PURPOSES-50-YEARS-OLD-NON-O.pdf

 

[jerrymahoney]

So from the above linked doc it says:

 

6. A letter of guarantee from the local or overseas Embassy or Consulate that proving the monthly pension of the Applicant not less than Baht 65,000 per month (together with reference documents showing the source of monthly pension)

 

Since many country embassies will not provide any such letter, maybe they just now settle for the 'together with' part.

[khunPer]

On 4/14/2024 at 6:06 AM, SportRider said:

Just been searching for the answer to this, couldn't find it so am posting as new topic.

 

Situation would be application for non-immigrant 'O' & retirement extension to a visa exempt entry.  UK national.

 

I understand showing 12 x monthly transfers to a Thai bank of at least 65,000 THB is acceptable as proof of funds for retirement visa (for 12 months prior to application).

 

Q1: BUT I read somewhere that the *first* extension requires 800,000 in the bank, and only subsequent extensions could be 65k monthly.  Is that correct?

 

Q2: Also, how is 'retirement' defined or checked if at all.  Eg is source of the monthly inbound funds checked?  Could someone have various sources of income from overseas business interests and just send themselves 65k each month?

 

Thanks a lot for your kind guidance.

 

SR

To my knowledge, and from previous threads about the subject, you only need to show two monthly transfers of 65k baht from abroad first time using the income method for an extension of stay. The following year you need to show 12 monthly transfers.

 

Your non-O visa needs to be obtained abroad to use the income method first time. If you enters visa exempt – or by tourists visa – and apply for a non-O visa domestically, you'll need a bank deposit of 800k baht transferred from abroad.

[bigt3116]

On 4/14/2024 at 3:58 PM, Red Phoenix said:

Some Imm Offices require that at the moment of application you can show evidence of at least 1 transfer of + 65K to your personal Thai bank-account, while others require 2 or 3 transfers in the months preceding your application. 

 

Can you enlighten me as to which office would accept a single transfer of 65K for an annual extension?

 

[Red Phoenix]

13 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

 

Can you enlighten me as to which office would accept a single transfer of 65K for an annual extension?

 

Hi Bigt3116 >

There are no Imm Offices that would accept a single transfer of +65K when applying for a 1-year EXTENSION based on your Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.

One needs to make a distinction between 3 different application moments.

# Applying for the initial 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement

# Applying for the first 1-year extension based on that initial 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement

# Applying for a 1-year extension from your previous 1-year extension based on that initial 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement

> In my earlier post I indicated the variations that I came across from reports by applicants.  Every Thai Imm Office uses its own interpretation of the 'official' rules for the 3 application options mentioned.  So unless you get a recent, detailed and trustworthy report from another poster doing exactly what you planned to do also, it is recommended to visit your local Imm Office and ask what requirements would be applicable at their Imm Office.  That would avoid 'surprise' additional requirements when preparing for doing the application there.

Note that I never used the Monthly Income Transfer method myself, as I used the +800K Funds in Bank method when applying for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement and subsequent extensions.

[bigt3116]

1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

There are no Imm Offices that would accept a single transfer of +65K when applying for a 1-year EXTENSION based on your Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.

One needs to make a distinction between 3 different application moments.

# Applying for the initial 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement

 

There are also no offices that would accept a single transfer for the initial Non-O either.

 

[Liquorice]

On 4/14/2024 at 2:14 PM, TheAppletons said:

 

  That isn't a requirement.  

Yes it is, it's simply a question of whether your IO enforce it and request proof of income from a pension, interest or dividends.

My IO request a pension statement/letter and will not consider overseas transfers from savings.

 

 

138-2557 (2014) Docs for extensions - ENG.pdf

1. Application form

2. Copy of applicant’s passport

3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or

4. Funds deposit certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook

[Liquorice]

2 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

 

Can you enlighten me as to which office would accept a single transfer of 65K for an annual extension?

 

None.

You must provide evidence of an annual income of either 12 x 65K monthly overseas transfers, or an Embassy Income letter.

[Liquorice]

34 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

 

There are also no offices that would accept a single transfer for the initial Non-O either.

 

Most IO's will only accept the 800K funds deposit for the Non O application, or an Embassy Income letter, (together with reference documents showing the source of monthly pension).

VE-TV to Non O Retirement.pdf 

[SportRider]

On 4/14/2024 at 11:30 AM, QuantumQuandry said:

 

I applied for my retirement extension a few days ago, using the 65k method, at Jomtien Immigration.

 

They required me to show both the statement from the Thai bank (which, btw, took a week to get...no-one mentioned that part to me lol)...and also some proof of where the funds were coming *from*.

 

Two caveats here:  The guy next door that helped me prepare the documents for immigration asked me what they wanted and seem perplexed, indicating that he seemed to have not heard of this before.  So it could just be my immigration guy had a bug up his ass.  He seemed pleasant enough but...I don't know.

 

The other caveat is that the only thing I had available on my phone were some withdrawal alerts that matched up with the amounts and dates.  I asked if that would be ok or if I needed to go home and print off a year of statements from the originating bank.  He accepted them.  Not sure if that means my extension is likely approved or not.  We will see in a few days.

This is very helpful thankyou.  So he wanted to see the transmitting account was yours, but didn't ask about source of funds *into* that account (eg no check its a pension payment...)?

[SportRider]

On 4/14/2024 at 11:48 AM, KhunLA said:

Retirement is simply 50+ yrs old, and not working in TH, unless having a permit to do.   They don't care how the money is source or where, as long as it's deposited into a Thai bank account from abroad.

 

Bank will give you 'credit advice' which will state (track) the deposits.  Bank will also give you a full print out of your account, and a final balance statement .  All a bit redundant, but all 3 required by my Imm office, along with copies of every page of my bank book for past year.  Paperwork silliness. 

 

Buddha forbid they would simple accept my USA Soc Sec 1099 statement, showing more than 800k income required.

 

Do allow at least 1 week to apply, as it takes that long for the bank to issue.   My Imm office wants that filed day issued, or next day.    Statement & updated bank book balance must match.

 

Recommend apply for extension, as soon as allowed, in case paperwork isn't accepted, as will take another week to get new bank paperwork.

 

I almost had an oops.   My last deposit is done on 3 or 4th, and I waited till 10th to extend.  Missing 1 piece of bank paperwork, so had to get new, took 7 days, and my visa expired on that last day, the 17th.  Yep, cutting that one close.   Will submit on the 4th or 5th now, or maybe even change the extension date to previous month, on the 30th, so give me 26 days to prep, instead of 13.

Thanks for this reply, helpful and appreciated. 

[SportRider]

On 4/14/2024 at 2:06 PM, DrJack54 said:

Well in actual fact many do.

That can be from a variety of sources. 

Example rental properties, shares etc etc.

 

As I stated earlier some immigration offices are satisfied with monthly transfers of 65k+

(Best idea to transfer on consistent date) 

 

Some may want proof of source of income.

Pension etc. 

Thankyou Dr Jack. 🙏🙏

 

Any ideas about needing to use the 800k for *first* extension, before using 65k for subsequent?

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, SportRider said:

Thanks for this reply, helpful and appreciated. 

Your welcome, but scratch the 'working/permit' part' as apparently not possible w/Ret visa. 

 

Ret Vis really is quite easy.  GOOD LUCK

Edited April 17 by KhunLA

[SportRider]

On 4/14/2024 at 3:58 PM, Red Phoenix said:

OP didn't provide info on which Imm Office he would be applying for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement from his Visa Exempt entry using the +65K income transfer method. 

If OP would apply at CW, CM, Jomtien, Phuket, or another very large Imm Office, some posters that recently did same at that office might provide him with an overview of the requirements at that Office.

Otherwise, it is recommended that he would visit the Imm Office where he plans to apply and to hear about the requirements as being applied at that office, this because the local interpretation/application of the requirements will greatly vary at each Imm Office.

= = =

The main requirements for his application are the financial ones. 

When using the +65K monthly income transfer method, here are the 'variations' that you can come across depending on the Imm Office where you apply.

# Some Imm Offices require that at the moment of application you can show evidence of at least 1 transfer of + 65K to your personal Thai bank-account, while others require 2 or 3 transfers in the months preceding your application.  And there are even Imm Offices that require 12 of such monthly transfers even for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa application.

# There are also variations possible when applying at the end of the 90-days for the 1-year extension based on that Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.  Depending on the office they can require 2, 3 or 12 months of monthly +65 K transfers. 

# After the first 1-year extension of stay application (at the end of the 90-day period of the initial Non Imm O Visa), the requirement is 12 or 13 months of such +65K monthly income transfers to your personal Thai bank-account.

# Some Imm Offices also require that the monthly transfers are done approx at same time of the month. 

# Some Imm Offices require that on top of the +65K monthly income transfers that you  provide evidence of the SOURCE of that income.  And some Imm Offices (e.g. Jomtien) only accept an official pension statement as evidence for the source, while others do not mandate any source-requirements at all, except evidence that the +65K funds originated from abroad. 

= = =

Considering the above, it is therefore recommended to either get exact information from posters that recently used the same Imm Office as you would be applying for such a 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement using the +65K income method.  Or simply visit the Imm Office and ask about the requirements that they would impose for the initial 90-day Non Imm O Visa application as well as for the first 1-year extension (after 3 months).

Thanks a lot for your comprehensive response Red 🙂🙂

 

Application will be at Jomtien. 

 

Regarding 'official pension statement' would not a statement of withdrawals/income from an investment company be considered the same? 

 

[SportRider]

On 4/15/2024 at 6:42 AM, kawikasudo said:

At Jomtien they asked me for a copy of retirement pension which I gave them a copy of monthly gross and net of my federal government pension and they accepted it. 

Very good to know, thankyou kawi. 

[Red Phoenix]

14 minutes ago, SportRider said:

Thanks a lot for your comprehensive response Red 🙂🙂

Application will be at Jomtien. 

Regarding 'official pension statement' would not a statement of withdrawals/income from an investment company be considered the same?

Unfortunately Jomtien is one of those Imm Offices that only accept an 'official pension statement'  as evidence of the source of the funds when making use of the Monthly Income Transfer method. 

There are Imm Offices that would accept other sources as valid evidence for the foreign income (e.g. rental income from property abroad), and there are also Imm Offices that do not bother about the source of the foreign income, as long as you can show that the monthly income-transfers originated from abroad.

[DrJack54]

28 minutes ago, SportRider said:

Any ideas about needing to use the 800k for *first* extension, before using 65k for subsequent?

Assuming your embassy does not provide "income letter" (UK,USA,AU) you would need to provide 12 month of 65k+ transfers.

As noted in earlier posts, some immigration offices will be fine with the monthly transfers being from overseas and and not interested in funds from pension etc.

 

An io from CW told me she wants to see some proof of pension.

With that in mind I changed my super funds to "income stream". Meaning set amount every month. 

However I have decided to use agent moving forward

[bamnutsak]

23 hours ago, Liquorice said:

3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends

 

Understanding the caveat that Immigration can ask for whatever documents they want...

 

The key words in the requirement are "such as", so those are just three examples of acceptable "income".  They are not the only acceptable forms of income.

 

 

For U.S. citizens Social Security is not a "pension".

 

A Credit Advice Receipt shows the "source" of the remitted funds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[QuantumQuandry]

1 hour ago, SportRider said:

This is very helpful thankyou.  So he wanted to see the transmitting account was yours, but didn't ask about source of funds *into* that account (eg no check its a pension payment...)?

 

I have no pension statement...as I have no pension.

 

The immigration guy said he "needs something" to show his boss.  I asked if bank statement from the sending bank was sufficient.  He said yes.  I realized I didn't have access to my bank statements on my phone, I asked if "withdrawal alerts" showing the money coming out of my bank in emails would be enough.  He said yes.

 

We pick it up tomorrow so I will update then if it was approved.  But it has been accepted at immigration, so far and the immigration officer put check marks next to everything so...fingers crossed 

Edited April 17 by QuantumQuandry

[Liquorice]

46 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

For U.S. citizens Social Security is not a "pension".

The UK state pension is also classed as a 'benefit', but in reality it is a 'government state pension'.

 

48 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

A Credit Advice Receipt shows the "source" of the remitted funds.

That depends on the method of transfers and the Thai bank, whether you require a credit advice receipt, a foreign exchange transfer form, or neither as it's already coded as an International transfer.

All of these only provide evidence the transfers originated overseas, they do not indicate the 'source' of the funds you are transferring.

 

[Red Phoenix]

54 minutes ago, QuantumQuandry said:

 

I have no pension statement...as I have no pension.

 

The immigration guy said he "needs something" to show his boss.  I asked if bank statement from the sending bank was sufficient.  He said yes.  I realized I didn't have access to my bank statements on my phone, I asked if "withdrawal alerts" showing the money coming out of my bank in emails would be enough.  He said yes.

 

We pick it up tomorrow so I will update then if it was approved.  But it has been accepted at immigration, so far and the immigration officer put check marks next to everything so...fingers crossed 

Can you indicate which Imm Office you are applying at?

[bamnutsak]

4 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

they do not indicate the 'source' of the funds you are transferring.

 

Yes. They do.

 

 

[Pumpuynarak]

My IO here in Korat always asks for proof of the fact that my FTT into my Bangkok bank account is indeed derived from a pension. I supply them with a monthly pension statement showing gross and net income, they accept no problem.

[Liquorice]

Just now, bamnutsak said:

 

Yes. They do.

 

 

No they don't.
You're confusing evidence of an overseas transfer, with the 'source', as in where did the funds you transferred originate from.

The 'source' would be a pension letter or statement from your overseas pension provider, or similar, and that does not appear on an overseas transfer.

 

My IO require a 12-month Thai bank statement with evidence the transfers originated from overseas. (Coded FTT, International, credit advice receipts, or a foreign exchange transfer form).

For extensions based on retirement using the income method, they also request evidence of the 'source' of those transferred funds, such as a pension letter/statement, similar to what those who can obtain an Embassy Income letter have to provide to their Embassy to obtain the letter.

 

Not all Immigration offices will request evidence of the 'source' of the funds in your foreign bank account, but be aware they can.

[Liquorice]

2 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

My IO here in Korat always asks for proof of the fact that my FTT into my Bangkok bank account is indeed derived from a pension. I supply them with a monthly pension statement showing gross and net income, they accept no problem.

Thank you.

As I'm trying to point out to @bamnutsak, Korat Immigration are not only requesting proof of an overseas (International) transfer, but the 'source' of where those funds originated from in your foreign bank account that you transfer. It's made clear in Immigration orders they are entitled to request evidence of the 'source'.

[QuantumQuandry]

24 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Can you indicate which Imm Office you are applying at?

 

I did earlier in my first post but it's Jomtien immigration.