Opinion: A Gazan's Plea, How College Campus Protests Are Harming the Palestinian Cause

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

Christ man, so now you are referring not to that biased article, but your own post under that biased article, full of links to other biased rightwing and isreali articles..

Ridiculous..

Got it, you prefer not to be informed.

 

Hamas-Run Gaza Health Ministry Admits to Flaws in Casualty Data

“The sudden shifts in the ministry’s reporting methods suggest it is scrambling to prevent exposure of its shoddy work. For months, U.S. media have taken for granted that the ministry’s top-line figure for casualties was reliable enough to include in daily updates on the war. Even President Biden has cited its numbers. Now we’re seeing that a third or more of the ministry’s data may be incomplete at best — and fictional at worst.” — David Adesnik, Senior Fellow and Director of Research

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/

 

Israel-Hamas war: Gaza's morgue network has effectively collapsed - how are they recording their dead?

Of the 21,703 identified fatalities whose details have been shared by the Hamas-run health ministry, 13,207 were women, children or elderly (61%).

Until recently, however, the ministry had been reporting a figure of 72%.

Mr al Wahaidi told Sky News that this was a "media estimate". He was not able to explain the basis for this estimate or who had produced it.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-health-system-collapse-in-gaza-leaves-authorities-struggling-to-count-the-dead-13107279

 

Hamas’s Casualty Numbers Games
As Israeli troops batter Hamas and drive its surviving forces to the southern edge of the Gaza Strip, the Gaza Health Ministry has etched in the public mind a statistic that casts Israel’s war of self-defense as a bloodbath: 70% of the dead in Gaza are women and children, the Hamas-run ministry says, and more than 30,000 lives in total have been lost. Is it true?

Yet in a series of lengthy reports, the ministry admits that the figures the media treat as authoritative rely in part on reporting from . . . the media. The ministry says its casualty counts include two types of fatalities: those recorded by medical facilities and those reported by “reliable media sources.” In its March 31 report, the ministry attributes 15,070 of the dead, or 45.9%, to news reports. From which outlets? The ministry never says.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hamass-numbers-games-civilian-death-counts-casualty-data-b99140eb

https://archive.ph/JYQFg

 

Hamas document reveals it hides casualties, blames failed rocket launches on Israel - IDF

“These documents clearly show that terrorist organizations in Gaza are cooperating to hide the extent of the destruction and killing caused by failed launches that fall on the residents, while making an effort to protect Hamas terrorists, overlooking the danger to civilians,” said Adraee in his statement.

Lastly, Hamas reports were exposed featuring names of Gazan casualties as a result of failed launches, which were then recycled by Hamas in their outward reports of casualties, alleging they stemmed from Israeli airstrikes. In other words, Hamas counted casualties from PIJ failed rockets as casualties from Israeli attacks, proving yet again the lack of accuracy of their propaganda reporting.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-794610

[Excogitator]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Got it, you prefer not to be informed.

 

Hamas-Run Gaza Health Ministry Admits to Flaws in Casualty Data

“The sudden shifts in the ministry’s reporting methods suggest it is scrambling to prevent exposure of its shoddy work. For months, U.S. media have taken for granted that the ministry’s top-line figure for casualties was reliable enough to include in daily updates on the war. Even President Biden has cited its numbers. Now we’re seeing that a third or more of the ministry’s data may be incomplete at best — and fictional at worst.” — David Adesnik, Senior Fellow and Director of Research

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/

 

Israel-Hamas war: Gaza's morgue network has effectively collapsed - how are they recording their dead?

Of the 21,703 identified fatalities whose details have been shared by the Hamas-run health ministry, 13,207 were women, children or elderly (61%).

Until recently, however, the ministry had been reporting a figure of 72%.

Mr al Wahaidi told Sky News that this was a "media estimate". He was not able to explain the basis for this estimate or who had produced it.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-health-system-collapse-in-gaza-leaves-authorities-struggling-to-count-the-dead-13107279

 

Hamas’s Casualty Numbers Games
As Israeli troops batter Hamas and drive its surviving forces to the southern edge of the Gaza Strip, the Gaza Health Ministry has etched in the public mind a statistic that casts Israel’s war of self-defense as a bloodbath: 70% of the dead in Gaza are women and children, the Hamas-run ministry says, and more than 30,000 lives in total have been lost. Is it true?

Yet in a series of lengthy reports, the ministry admits that the figures the media treat as authoritative rely in part on reporting from . . . the media. The ministry says its casualty counts include two types of fatalities: those recorded by medical facilities and those reported by “reliable media sources.” In its March 31 report, the ministry attributes 15,070 of the dead, or 45.9%, to news reports. From which outlets? The ministry never says.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hamass-numbers-games-civilian-death-counts-casualty-data-b99140eb

https://archive.ph/JYQFg

 

Hamas document reveals it hides casualties, blames failed rocket launches on Israel - IDF

“These documents clearly show that terrorist organizations in Gaza are cooperating to hide the extent of the destruction and killing caused by failed launches that fall on the residents, while making an effort to protect Hamas terrorists, overlooking the danger to civilians,” said Adraee in his statement.

Lastly, Hamas reports were exposed featuring names of Gazan casualties as a result of failed launches, which were then recycled by Hamas in their outward reports of casualties, alleging they stemmed from Israeli airstrikes. In other words, Hamas counted casualties from PIJ failed rockets as casualties from Israeli attacks, proving yet again the lack of accuracy of their propaganda reporting.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-794610

This is not being informed, this is about you being unbelievably biased and one-sided, refusing to take in any other information than that what already confirms your existing bias..

 

I repeat, your links are all to rightwing and isreali news organisations.. giving you only one side of the story.

[proton]

57 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

This conflict didn't start this year, when Hamas attacked Israel.. It's been going on for decades and decades. 

 

Had the Palestinians been able to live their lives with dignity and in prosperity and peace, in their own land, the Hamas would have no reason to exist.

 

Palestinians have been offered their own land many times since the 1930's they always said no as it involved the existence of Israel. Jews have been there for over 3k years, and even the Quran says God gave the children of Israel the land.The Quran never mentions Palestine but does Israel over 40 times. Arabs live their life with dignity and peace in Israel where 18% of the population are Arabs. Arabs are actually the colonizers in the area and the middle east is about 98% muslim, the problem is they want it all for themselves, as they historically hate Jews.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Excogitator said:

This is not being informed, this is about you being unbelievably biased and one-sided, refusing to take in any other information than that what already confirms your existing bias..

 

I repeat, your links are all to rightwing and isreali news organisations.. giving you only one side of the story.

Is the BBC one of those right wing sites too? You really should read the sources of where these figures come from, even the UN will tell you.

 

More than 30,000 Palestinians have now been killed in Gaza since 7 October, the Hamas-run health ministry says.

The ministry says that the majority of those killed were women and children.

Its figures do not differentiate between civilians and fighters when identifying those killed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68430925

[Excogitator]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Is the BBC one of those right wing sites too? You really should read the sources of where these figures come from, even the UN will tell you.

 

More than 30,000 Palestinians have now been killed in Gaza since 7 October, the Hamas-run health ministry says.

The ministry says that the majority of those killed were women and children.

Its figures do not differentiate between civilians and fighters when identifying those killed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68430925

Okay, for arguments sake, lets only use the information in your bbc-link, which is 2 months old already, and take into account the unverified israeli claim there, that 10000 'terrorists' have been killed, that still means that 20000 innocent palestinian civilians, children, women and men have also been killed. That is already a genocide in progress.. and by now, we can add 2 more months of killings...

[Excogitator]

30 minutes ago, proton said:

 

Palestinians have been offered their own land many times since the 1930's they always said no as it involved the existence of Israel. Jews have been there for over 3k years, and even the Quran says God gave the children of Israel the land.The Quran never mentions Palestine but does Israel over 40 times. Arabs live their life with dignity and peace in Israel where 18% of the population are Arabs. Arabs are actually the colonizers in the area and the middle east is about 98% muslim, the problem is they want it all for themselves, as they historically hate Jews.

As I said in another comment:

 

What the Palestinian people want, is their own land, and a life with dignity, in prosperity and peace. In other words a two state solution.

 

I recommend you read about the Oslo-agreement from the 1990s, which Netanyahu and his ilk sabotaged and destroyed, and with it all hope of a two-state-solution, and a peaceful coexistence. 

[billd766]

7 hours ago, Excogitator said:

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/200-days-military-attack-gaza-horrific-death-toll-amid-intl-failure-stop-israels-genocide-palestinians-enar

I opened the link on my first click using Google Chrome.

 

Here are the first few lines.

 

Palestinian Territory - The consequences of the 200-day Israeli military attack on the Gaza Strip are horrifying, both in their scope and their deliberate targeting of Palestinian civilians. This is particularly alarming given the shameful lack of global pressure on Israel to adhere to international law and the rulings of the International Court of Justice and to halt the ongoing crime of genocide against the Palestinian people.

Euro-Med Monitor outlined in numbers the catastrophic results of the genocide being carried out by Israel with the aim of destroying Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. This genocide continues unabated, with Israel persisting in its attacks at the same intensity and committing horrendous crimes, ignoring escalating calls for a ceasefire. Israel is fortified by protection of the U.S. and European and international stances that, at best, only amount to condemnation statements.

 

And a few more, and there is a lot more in the link.

 

The Israeli army has killed 42,510 Palestinians over the course of its 200-day attack, 38,621 of whom were civilians, including 10,091 women and 15,780 children. The bodies of several thousand are still stuck under the rubble, while thousands remain missing and are presumed dead. These statistics include the killing of 137 journalists, 356 medical personnel, and 42 civil defense personnel.

Based on these data, the daily death toll for Palestinians has reached 212, including 50 women and 79 children. These are horrifying statistics and unprecedented in the context of contemporary warfare.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Excogitator said:

Okay, for arguments sake, lets only use the information in your bbc-link, which is 2 months old already, and take into account the unverified israeli claim there, that 10000 'terrorists' have been killed, that still means that 20000 innocent palestinian civilians, children, women and men have also been killed. That is already a genocide in progress.. and by now, we can add 2 more months of killings...

This has been ongoing for over 6 months and you're just starting to find out where the figures come from let alone yet to discover Hamas's own admissions that they are wrong. You then claim the IDF figures are unverified but you believe Hamas....lol. You also have no clue about causality figures in war or what genocide is. I am not here to teach you but try some research on one of the 8 pages of topics here. Goodnight https://aseannow.com/forum/432-the-war-in-israel/

 

 

[Hanaguma]

6 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

Okay, for arguments sake, lets only use the information in your bbc-link, which is 2 months old already, and take into account the unverified israeli claim there, that 10000 'terrorists' have been killed, that still means that 20000 innocent palestinian civilians, children, women and men have also been killed. That is already a genocide in progress.. and by now, we can add 2 more months of killings...

'Genocide in progress'? Give me a break. The population of Gaza has GROWN by 50,000 people a year since the 1960s. Some genocide. 

The IDF could easily kill 20,000 people in a day if they wanted. Yet somehow they kill only 1% of that number (even if you believe the liars of Hamas).  That speaks to the professionalism and care that the IDF takes when conducting operations. 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I opened the link on my first click using Google Chrome.

 

Here are the first few lines.

 

Palestinian Territory - The consequences of the 200-day Israeli military attack on the Gaza Strip are horrifying, both in their scope and their deliberate targeting of Palestinian civilians. This is particularly alarming given the shameful lack of global pressure on Israel to adhere to international law and the rulings of the International Court of Justice and to halt the ongoing crime of genocide against the Palestinian people.

Euro-Med Monitor outlined in numbers the catastrophic results of the genocide being carried out by Israel with the aim of destroying Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. This genocide continues unabated, with Israel persisting in its attacks at the same intensity and committing horrendous crimes, ignoring escalating calls for a ceasefire. Israel is fortified by protection of the U.S. and European and international stances that, at best, only amount to condemnation statements.

 

And a few more, and there is a lot more in the link.

 

The Israeli army has killed 42,510 Palestinians over the course of its 200-day attack, 38,621 of whom were civilians, including 10,091 women and 15,780 children. The bodies of several thousand are still stuck under the rubble, while thousands remain missing and are presumed dead. These statistics include the killing of 137 journalists, 356 medical personnel, and 42 civil defense personnel.

Based on these data, the daily death toll for Palestinians has reached 212, including 50 women and 79 children. These are horrifying statistics and unprecedented in the context of contemporary warfare.

Oh dear, source:

 

 

Euro Med is not a credible link org here. They are Hamas terrorist supporters who promote false claims and conspiracies

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

As I said in another comment:

 

What the Palestinian people want, is their own land, and a life with dignity, in prosperity and peace. In other words a two state solution.

 

I recommend you read about the Oslo-agreement from the 1990s, which Netanyahu and his ilk sabotaged and destroyed, and with it all hope of a two-state-solution, and a peaceful coexistence. 

I am sure some do. But a large minority, perhaps majority, do not. They want ALL the land. With no Jews on it. The same way there are virtually no Jews in the 22 Arab nations of this world. How do you think THAT came about, by the way? That is the what the future holds for Israel should Hamas win. 

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

As I said in another comment:

 

What the Palestinian people want, is their own land, and a life with dignity, in prosperity and peace. In other words a two state solution.

 

I recommend you read about the Oslo-agreement from the 1990s, which Netanyahu and his ilk sabotaged and destroyed, and with it all hope of a two-state-solution, and a peaceful coexistence. 

So, what should Israel do now? 

[Excogitator]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

'Genocide in progress'? Give me a break. The population of Gaza has GROWN by 50,000 people a year since the 1960s. Some genocide. 

The IDF could easily kill 20,000 people in a day if they wanted. Yet somehow they kill only 1% of that number (even if you believe the liars of Hamas).  That speaks to the professionalism and care that the IDF takes when conducting operations. 

You have to be a pretty sick person to try to rationalise killing on a massive scale like that.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, Excogitator said:

If you chose to ignore the thousands of dead children of Gaza, you have little humanity, and zero chance of understanding the situation there.

 

   Up until  few weeks ago I used to spend a large amount of time talking about children online , talking often about dead children .

  It just felt a bit weird talking about children so often  , so if you would like to talk about children, you will have to find someone else to talk to about them .

[Excogitator]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

So, what should Israel do now? 

Get rid of Netanyahu and his ilk, which many many Israelis also want, and go back to the Oslo-agreement and a two state solution 

[connda]

On 4/28/2024 at 10:52 AM, Social Media said:

Hamza Howidy is a Palestinian from Gaza City

...working for the Zionist cause.  I'm sure he'll be well rewarded, like Abbas. Until he's no longer useful. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Excogitator said:

Get rid of Netanyahu and his ilk, which many many Israelis also want, and go back to the Oslo-agreement and a two state solution 

How? 

[Excogitator]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Oh dear, source:

 

 

Euro Med is not a credible link org here. They are Hamas terrorist supporters who promote false claims and conspiracies

Can you back up this claim with anything at all? Sources?

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, connda said:

...working for the Zionist cause.  I'm sure he'll be well rewarded, like Abbas. Until he's no longer useful. 

 

 

 

    Do you think that Jews should have a Country for themselves on the land ?

[Nick Carter icp]

21 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

Okay, for arguments sake, lets only use the information in your bbc-link, which is 2 months old already, and take into account the unverified israeli claim there, that 10000 'terrorists' have been killed, that still means that 20000 innocent palestinian civilians, children, women and men have also been killed. That is already a genocide in progress.. and by now, we can add 2 more months of killings...

 

   It isn't genocide at all , civilians get killed in all wars .

There are no wars where civilians don't get killed .

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

Can you back up this claim with anything at all? Sources?

Yes thanks

 

https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/euro-med-human-rights-monitor/

[Excogitator]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

How? 

Hopefully the majority of the people of Israel, who live in a democracy, will eventually see this as the only way to lasting peace. And one can only hope that big-brother, USA, will also nudge them in the right direction. If those two factors come together, then it can happen, as I believe that Abbas and all normal and moderate Palestinians also are ready for this.

[Excogitator]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes thanks

 

https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/euro-med-human-rights-monitor/

Lol, that's israel claiming this, so in other words totally biased and worthless.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Excogitator said:

Lol, that's israel claiming this, so in other words totally biased and worthless.

Again you are not checking the source links that are in the article. No helping you further

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

Get rid of Netanyahu and his ilk, which many many Israelis also want, and go back to the Oslo-agreement and a two state solution 

Get rid of Netanyahu -- absolutely.

But you're totally out of touch with reality if you think a two state solution can happen anytime soon. It's further away than ever after October 7.

Edited April 30 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

Hopefully the majority of the people of Israel, who live in a democracy, will eventually see this as the only way to lasting peace. And one can only hope that big-brother, USA, will also nudge them in the right direction. If those two factors come together, then it can happen, as I believe that Abbas and all normal and moderate Palestinians also are ready for this.

Totally out of touch with reality about public opinion on both sides.

Both sides have extremely hardened. You're in cloud cuckooland if you think anything can possibly happen soon towards a two state solution.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

Hopefully the majority of the people of Israel, who live in a democracy, will eventually see this as the only way to lasting peace. And one can only hope that big-brother, USA, will also nudge them in the right direction. If those two factors come together, then it can happen, as I believe that Abbas and all normal and moderate Palestinians also are ready for this.

 

   After the Oct 7 th terror attack , I cannot envisage Israelis giving Palestinians anything at all .

Israel's main concern is its own security and they will nit be giving Palestinians another chance to do another Oct 7 th .

   It will be another generation, 40 odd years before Israel will make any concessions to Palestinians .

This generation can forget about statehood 

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

Hopefully the majority of the people of Israel, who live in a democracy, will eventually see this as the only way to lasting peace. And one can only hope that big-brother, USA, will also nudge them in the right direction. If those two factors come together, then it can happen, as I believe that Abbas and all normal and moderate Palestinians also are ready for this.

I asked what they should do now, not years down the road after the next election. 

 

What percentage of Palestinians do you think are moderates? 

 

What is to be done about Hamas and the hostages? 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Get ride of Netanyahu -- absolutely.

But you're totally out of touch with reality if you think a two state solution can happen anytime soon. It's further away than ever after October 7.

What do you not like about Netanyahu? Was he not elected? 

[connda]

There are a whole set of tropes that are being spewed by Pro-Israel stakeholders.  Most are variation of the smears and tropes we heard in the late 1960s and early 1970s during the anti-Vietnam protests but upgraded and changed to spin a tale that supports only the far-right Israeli settler-occupier side, just like the smears and tropes spun a tale of the global march of Communism world-wide if Vietnam should fall 50 years ago.

Vietnam fell and the much vaunted Domino Theory never materialized. The Domino Theory was propaganda and was never what the Vietnam War was about which went decades back from before the US involvement or for that matter, the French involvement. If you don't understand the nature of propaganda, and you don't study history, then you just suck it all down and wipe your mouth with your Covid mask.

I'm a free-speech absolutist, and a US citizen, and a supporter of the US Constitution - including the rights of free speech, the right of assembly, and the rights of religious freedoms...including Islam.  Palestinians -- whom are also original "Semites" and include Palestinian Christians, Palestinian Muslims, and Palestinian Jews too -- all have the right to exist between the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.

The protests have a purpose - to end genocide of Palestinian civilians which is unconscionable.

Like the 1960s, a new generation has just found its political teeth and its power.  I'm aghast at those who claim to support the US Constitution as they at the same time are urinating on its protections.  Regardless of what people are saying on college and university campuses in the United States right now - It Is Protected Speech.  And I've heard all of the arguments against protected speech back during the Vietnam War protests when the authorities tried to break up those protests too.  And you'll hear them again.  And like 50 year ago, they're rolling it out again.

Wait for the Democratic Convention in Chicago.  It will be 1968 Two-Point-Oh.  And for all the same reasons. And probably ending in similar results.

Yeah baby - we live in interesting times.  And at this rate, soon to go mushroom-cloud shaped.  A whole lot of powerful people want to see WWIII come to fruition on multiple fronts.  And like the last world wars, everyone will get sucked right up into the vacuum unless people start finding their common humanity. 

Edited April 30 by connda