Thailand's NVI Backs AstraZeneca Amid Controversy

[johng]

 

29 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Yes, some few people (statistically) have side-effects from vaccinations, and even fewer people die from the side-effects.  That is a fact of life.  But statistically, the numbers are so minute,

 

This is what they will have you believe ...that the numbers are minute except when you look at the yellow card,VAERs  and insurance company figures.

[dinsdale]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yes, if you look enough, you can find all kinds of things being posted in the gutters of the internet by people with long documented histories of purveying misinformation and unproven claims regarding COVID and COVID vaccines.

 

Here's what the International Coalition of Medicines Regulatory Authorities says about that:

 

"False and misleading information about the safety of COVID-19 vaccines on social media often exaggerates the frequency and severity of side effects. Misinformation also wrongly attributes unrelated medical events to the vaccines. Vaccine misinformation leading individuals to decline vaccination has very likely led to many more deaths than adverse effects of the vaccines."

...

False information about COVID-19 vaccines can result in deaths or severe disease if people avoid getting the vaccines they need. False information about COVID-19, both unintended (misinformation) and deliberate (disinformation), spreads on social media, so it is important to get  information from trusted sources (healthcare professionals, scientific sources and national medicines regulators).

 

Some people misinterpret the numbers of deaths or suspected side effects reported in vaccine safety databases. The fact that an adverse medical event or even death occurs in a vaccinated person does not mean that the vaccine has caused it. Regulators evaluate reports of medical events following the use of these medicines to determine if there is a signal indicating causality and if so, they take action as appropriate."

 

https://icmra.info/drupal/strategicinitiatives/vaccines/safety_statement

 

About ICMRA
ICMRA brings together 38 medicines regulatory authorities from every region in the world, with the WHO as an observer

 

 

Yep. The CDC and WHO line. You believe in what you're being told by the WHO, big pharma, governments and the access media that's up to you. I don't believe it. If all was fine why for example is evedince of vaccine harm given to big pharma by the UK govt not shared for independent scrutiny? You think that evidence that goes against what the CDC and big pharma says is misinformation again that's up to you but one wonders which side the misinformation is coming from. You think the sites you quote are independent that also is up to you. The truth has been and is being supressed but will eventually come out. 

[torturedsole]

My wife and I were obviously exposed to Covid (nothing happened), but we weren't exposed to the vaccines. Happy to report no side effects from any of the vaccines or Covid19.

Edited May 6 by stats
trolling comment removed

[dinsdale]

21 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Social media is full of conspiracy theories about vaccine safety, men never landed on the moon, mobile phone masts are dangerous, trump is not mentally deranged etc etc.  These pages often have large numbers of followers (= $$$ for the originator of the theory).  Many of these followers either accept the conspiracy theory at face value, or do not have the mental intellect to consider the scientific facts to support/dismiss the claim, or they exaggerate the statistical data far in excess of what the scientific data states.

 

Yes, some few people (statistically) have side-effects from vaccinations, and even fewer people die from the side-effects.  That is a fact of life.  But statistically, the numbers are so minute, and the proven benefit of these vaccinations so great, that it makes no sense (to me) for someone to actively refuse such a vaccination.

 

Now if you believe that the pushing of Covid vax is some kind of Big Pharma, Bill Gates, Illuminati etc plan, then of course you are free to believe that 🙂

What about people who are guests on YT sites. Professors of immunology for example. What do they have to gain? Highly published and well respected. Are they conspiracy theorists? What about people that questioned the efficacy and safety of the vaccines? Conspiracy theorists? Why was AZ and J&J withdrawn? Was this a conspiracy or were the vaccines deemed to be dangerous? Can you answer these questions?

[simon43]

^^ The answers to your questions are easily found on the internet and support my position that the AZ vaccine (and others) substantially reduced the death rate from Covid. People can and did question the safety and efficacy of the vaccine, and the published data indicates that very few (statistically) had serious vaccine side-effects or death.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions - that's one way how published data is peer-reviewed.  But when presented with independent and peer-reviewed statistical data that demonstrates the good safety record of the vaccine, only the most stubborn or most stupid would continue to ask the same questions again and again.

[dinsdale]

5 minutes ago, simon43 said:

^^ The answers to your questions are easily found on the internet and support my position that the AZ vaccine (and others) substantially reduced the death rate from Covid. People can and did question the safety and efficacy of the vaccine, and the published data indicates that very few (statistically) had serious vaccine side-effects or death.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions - that's one way how published data is peer-reviewed.  But when presented with independent and peer-reviewed statistical data that demonstrates the good safety record of the vaccine, only the most stubborn or most stupid would continue to ask the same questions again and again.

AZ withdrawn because of clots. This is a fact and an appropriate measure. Why else would it be withdrawn from the market if not deemed harmful to personal health? If I'm correct it never even made it into the US market. As for peer reviews I guess it's a question of who the peers are. Mind you blind faith will always be blind.

Edited May 6 by dinsdale

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The original reports about the rare blood clotting side effect of the AZ vaccine came from public health agencies in response to vaccine safety monitoring identifying the potential problem. That occurred very shortly after the mass rollout of the vaccine in the UK and Europe in early 2021. The monitoring system did its job. And the news wasn't hidden or suppressed, but was widely reported at the time, even though the risk was found to be very rare.

 

European Medicines Agency:

AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine: EMA finds possible link to very rare cases of unusual blood clots with low blood platelets

7 April 2021

EMA confirms overall benefit-risk remains positive

EMA’s safety committee (PRAC) has concluded today that unusual blood clots with low blood platelets should be listed as very rare side effects of Vaxzevria (formerly COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca).

...

COVID-19 is associated with a risk of hospitalisation and death. The reported combination of blood clots and low blood platelets is very rare, and the overall benefits of the vaccine in preventing COVID-19 outweigh the risks of side effects.

 

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-ema-finds-possible-link-very-rare-cases-unusual-blood-clots-low-blood-platelets

 

 

And, the blood clotting events were indeed so rare that they never surfaced in the clinical trials that were done on the AZ vaccine before it was approved and then rolled out to the general public with tens of millions of doses given.

 

Australian Academy of Science:

 

7 May 2021

 

"The rarity of TTS is the main reason it was not detected during vaccine clinical trials. Clinical trials typically involve many thousands of people, not millions: if a side effect or complication only occurs for a few people out of a million, it may not happen for any of the participants in a clinical trial. This is why health authorities continue to monitor a vaccine’s safety as it is rolled out more widely so that very rare potential side effects can be identified and investigated."

...

"Although TTS is serious, it’s also very rare. The Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) estimates that out of every 100,000 people vaccinated with AstraZeneca, one or two people may experience TTS. The risk might be higher for people under 60, but any estimates of risks for specific age groups are still imprecise because there are so few cases to analyse."

 

https://www.science.org.au/curious/people-medicine/what-we-know-about-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-blood-clots

 

 

Once the warning signals about the AZ became clear during 2021, countries including the UK pretty quickly began to restrict its use and then eventually phased out its use in favor of the mRNA COVID vaccines from Moderna and Pfizer that didn't have the same blood clotting risks. And no, the AZ was never approved in the U.S. in the first place, in part because its application was pending there when the rare side effect issue of blood clotting emerged, along with some other unrelated factors.

 

The viral vector vaccines from AZ and J&J, post approval, were found to have a very rare side effect that was reported, monitored, assessed, and led to those vaccines widely being replaced by their mRNA counterparts. All of this was studied, reported, and well-documented during that time.

 

AstraZeneca withdraws US COVID vaccine application, shifts focus to antibody treatments

 

Nov 10, 2022

 

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/astrazeneca-withdraws-us-covid-vaccine-application-focus-shifts-antibody-treatments

 

 

 

Edited May 6 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[dinsdale]

16 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The original reports about the rare blood clotting side effect of the AZ vaccine came from public health agencies in response to vaccine safety monitoring identifying the potential problem. That occurred very shortly after the mass rollout of the vaccine in the UK and Europe in early 2021. The monitoring system did its job. And the news wasn't hidden or suppressed, but was widely reported at the time, even though the risk was found to be very rare.

 

European Medicines Agency:

AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine: EMA finds possible link to very rare cases of unusual blood clots with low blood platelets

7 April 2021

EMA confirms overall benefit-risk remains positive

EMA’s safety committee (PRAC) has concluded today that unusual blood clots with low blood platelets should be listed as very rare side effects of Vaxzevria (formerly COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca).

...

COVID-19 is associated with a risk of hospitalisation and death. The reported combination of blood clots and low blood platelets is very rare, and the overall benefits of the vaccine in preventing COVID-19 outweigh the risks of side effects.

 

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-ema-finds-possible-link-very-rare-cases-unusual-blood-clots-low-blood-platelets

 

 

And, the blood clotting events were indeed so rare that they never surfaced in the clinical trials that were done on the AZ vaccine before it was approved and then rolled out to the general public with tens of millions of doses given.

 

Australian Academy of Science:

 

7 May 2021

 

"The rarity of TTS is the main reason it was not detected during vaccine clinical trials. Clinical trials typically involve many thousands of people, not millions: if a side effect or complication only occurs for a few people out of a million, it may not happen for any of the participants in a clinical trial. This is why health authorities continue to monitor a vaccine’s safety as it is rolled out more widely so that very rare potential side effects can be identified and investigated."

...

"Although TTS is serious, it’s also very rare. The Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) estimates that out of every 100,000 people vaccinated with AstraZeneca, one or two people may experience TTS. The risk might be higher for people under 60, but any estimates of risks for specific age groups are still imprecise because there are so few cases to analyse."

 

https://www.science.org.au/curious/people-medicine/what-we-know-about-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-blood-clots

 

 

Once the warning signals about the AZ became clear during 2021, countries including the UK pretty quickly began to restrict its use and then eventually phased out its use in favor of the mRNA COVID vaccines from Moderna and Pfizer that didn't have the same blood clotting risks. And no, the AZ was never approved in the U.S. in the first place, in part because its application was pending there when the rare side effect issue of blood clotting emerged, along with some other unrelated factors.

 

The viral vector vaccines from AZ and J&J, post approval, were found to have a very rare side effect that was reported, monitored, assessed, and led to those vaccines widely being replaced by their mRNA counterparts. All of this was studied, reported, and well-documented during that time.

 

 

 

 

It would seem then that rare occurances were enough to get these vaccines withdrawn. Rare occurances of DEATH isn't enough to get mRNA vaccines withdrawn though. This I find difficult to understand. I also wonder why AZ is still available at all. Surely a global withdrawal is needed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

AFAIK, both the EMA and the UK MHRA's last official positions on the AZ vaccine were that its benefits in preventing COVID death and illness outweighed the very rare blood clotting risks. I don't believe the AZ vaccine's regulatory approval was ever revoked, at least not by the EMA or the UK.

 

That said, once the risks surfaced, various countries at various paces moved their reliance on COVID vaccines to the mRNA versions that likewise have been shown amid widespread use (billions of doses given) to be very safe, with their benefits against COVID far outweighing their risks.

 

US CDC:

 

Safety of COVID-19 Vaccines

Some people have no side effects. Many people have reported side effects—such as headache, fatigue, and soreness at the injection site—that are generally mild to moderate and go away within a few days.

What You Need to Know

• The benefits of COVID-19 vaccination continue to outweigh any potential risks.
• Severe reactions after COVID-19 vaccination are rare.......

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

Edited May 6 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And further from the U.S. CDC on the viral vector vaccine blood clotting side effect: They estimate FOUR TTS cases per 1 million doses given.

 

Thrombosis with Thrombocytopenia Syndrome (TTS) after COVID-19 Vaccination

Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) has been rarely observed after J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccination and has occurred in approximately 4 cases per one million doses administered. [emphasis added]  TTS is a rare but serious adverse event that causes blood clots in large blood vessels and low platelets (blood cells that help form clots).

 

A review of reports indicates a causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine and TTS. This observation contributed to the preferential recommendation by ACIP to use mRNA COVID-19 vaccines over the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine, which is no longer available in the United States.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

[dinsdale]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

AFAIK, both the EMA and the UK MHRA's last official positions on the AZ vaccine were that its benefits in preventing COVID death and illness outweighed the very rare blood clotting risks.

 

That said, once the risks surfaced, various countries at various paces moved their reliance on COVID vaccines to the mRNA versions that likewise have been shown amid widespread use (billions of doses given) to be very safe, with their benefits against COVID far outweighing their risks.

 

US CDC:

 

Safety of COVID-19 Vaccines

Some people have no side effects. Many people have reported side effects—such as headache, fatigue, and soreness at the injection site—that are generally mild to moderate and go away within a few days.

What You Need to Know

• The benefits of COVID-19 vaccination continue to outweigh any potential risks.
• Severe reactions after COVID-19 vaccination are rare.......

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

 

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

And further from the U.S. CDC on the viral vector vaccine blood clotting side effect:

 

Thrombosis with Thrombocytopenia Syndrome (TTS) after COVID-19 Vaccination

Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) has been rarely observed after J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccination and has occurred in approximately 4 cases per one million doses administered. [emphasis added]  TTS is a rare but serious adverse event that causes blood clots in large blood vessels and low platelets (blood cells that help form clots).

 

A review of reports indicates a causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine and TTS. This observation contributed to the preferential recommendation by ACIP to use mRNA COVID-19 vaccines over the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine, which is no longer available in the United States.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

Thank you once again for sharing the CDC information. It was the CDC that said the vaccines were safe in the 1st place was it not? Fairly sure the families of those who have died and those who have had or still suffer from serious injuries don't put too much faith in what the CDC says. 

[rattlesnake]

Fauci, March 2021. "The science" speaks.

DR. FAUCI:  Yeah.  The vaccine hesitancy surrounding AZ, related to reports from the European group that there was a greater incidence of thromboembolic events associated with the vaccine: during this trial here, there was no indication at all.
[...]
And the European Medicines Agency — the EMA — indicated in their examination that they did not see an increased risk of these types of events.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/03/22/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-18/

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

 

Thank you once again for sharing the CDC information. It was the CDC that said the vaccines were safe in the 1st place was it not? Fairly sure the families of those who have died and those who have had or still suffer from serious injuries don't put too much faith in what the CDC says. 

 

The documented death or injury numbers from COVID vaccines are tiny compared to the documented vast numbers of lives saved and illnesses avoided from COVID.

 

When governments approve a medical treatment or vaccine, I don't think they ever say there will be no side effects. What they say, and what is required for approval, is that the benefits significantly outweigh the risks, as was the case here.

 

[rattlesnake]

5 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Yep. The CDC and WHO line. You believe in what you're being told by the WHO, big pharma, governments and the access media that's up to you. I don't believe it. If all was fine why for example is evedince of vaccine harm given to big pharma by the UK govt not shared for independent scrutiny? You think that evidence that goes against what the CDC and big pharma says is misinformation again that's up to you but one wonders which side the misinformation is coming from. You think the sites you quote are independent that also is up to you. The truth has been and is being supressed but will eventually come out. 

Its coming out right now. My wife's GP told her just two days ago that she made the biggest mistake of her life by believing the vax narrative – she is triple-jabbed and was very much pro-"science" just two years ago. She is currently taking lots of supplements to try to compensate the drastic decline in her health.

From NewsNation:
 

 

Edited May 6 by stats
posted comments that misrepresent the anchor's actual comments in this video have been removed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Fauci, March 2021. "The science" speaks.

DR. FAUCI:  Yeah.  The vaccine hesitancy surrounding AZ, related to reports from the European group that there was a greater incidence of thromboembolic events associated with the vaccine: during this trial here, there was no indication at all.
[...]
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/03/22/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-18/

 

Fauci was correct, that the clinical trials did not surface TTS blood clots as an issue for the viral vector vaccines.  But you left out the final part of his quote referring to the clinical trials done on the vaccine as part of its application for approval:

 

"DR. FAUCI:  Yeah.  The vaccine hesitancy surrounding AZ, related to reports from the European group that there was a greater incidence of thromboembolic events associated with the vaccine: During this trial here, there was no indication at all.  Now, remember, you’re dealing with 30,000 people in a trial."

 

As documented and cited above, the TTS side effect was so rare that it didn't surface in the clinical trials on the AZ vaccine, which involved tens of thousands of participants, and didn't emerge until the vaccine (once approved outside the U.S.) was widely given.

 

[Robert Paulson]

11 hours ago, Negita43 said:

The age old paradox - risk versus reward:

If you have the Astra Zeneca Covid vaccine you might die from Thrombosis if you don't you might die from Covid BUT you cannot know beforehand which category you might fall into - all we can do is look at the statistics and make our own decisions or not as the case may be.

The cdc recommends 6 month olds be vaccinated. You cannot even make this stuff up anymore. Even though other countries keep he vaccines well away from youngsters. So… how could any of these decisions possibly be scientific if different countries are doing wildly different things is my question 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

From the New York Times amid their reporting about Shaun Barcavage's personal claims (including those cited in the YT video above) as part of a broader article about some people's beliefs that they suffered vaccine-related injuries:

 

The overall picture

 

"Here’s my best attempt to summarize the full truth about the Covid vaccines:

 

They are overwhelmingly safe and effective. They have saved millions of lives and prevented untold misery around the world. They’re so valuable that elderly people and those with underlying health conditions should be vigilant about getting booster shots when they’re eligible. For most children, on the other hand, booster shots seem to have only modest benefits, which is why many countries don’t recommend them.

 

And, yes, a small fraction of people will experience significant side effects from the vaccines. Eventually, scientific research may be able to better understand and reduce those side effects — which is more reason to pay attention to them.

 

Overall, Covid vaccines are probably the most beneficial medical breakthrough in years, if not decades."

 

https://archive.ph/HSUsy#selection-7853.0-7853.257

 

[torturedsole]

30 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The documented death or injury numbers from COVID vaccines are tiny compared to the documented vast numbers of lives saved and illnesses avoided from COVID.

The vast number of lives saved is open to interpretation. Vaccine injuries and/or deaths aren't.

[dinsdale]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The documented death or injury numbers from COVID vaccines are tiny compared to the documented vast numbers of lives saved and illnesses avoided from COVID.

 

When governments approve a medical treatment or vaccine, I don't think they ever say there will be no side effects. What they say, and what is required for approval, is that the benefits significantly outweigh the risks, as was the case here.

 

People vaccinated does not automatically equate to lives saved. How is this number aquired? What was and now is the death rate between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated? Why did and still do vaccinated people die from (not with) covid-19? How can it possibly be known if a vaccinated person who contracted covid was "saved" by the jab and not their own immune system? How do we know that delta would have killed more and it's only the vaccines that prevented this? Why weren't entire populations of the unvaccinated killed by the virus e.g. countries with very low vaccination rates like in Africa or Eastern Europe? These are valid questions. As for goverments approaving vaccines this is done after extensive testing. This was as you well know not the case this time around. As for risk benefit as it stands what do you think is a greater risk to a healthy 25 year old. Omicron or an mRNA booster?

[torturedsole]

41 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The documented death or injury numbers from COVID vaccines are tiny compared to the documented vast numbers of lives saved and illnesses avoided from COVID.

Another point that I take exception to. From personal experience, I find the vaccinated more prone to being struck down with Covid (I work in an office and the results are always the same).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's how we know from the New York Times, one source among many:

 

 

https://archive.ph/HSUsy

 

The benefits outweigh the risks.

 

Edited May 6 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[dinsdale]

30 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Here's how we know from the New York Times, one source among many:

 

 

https://archive.ph/HSUsy

 

The benefits outweigh the risks.

 

Please explain how the benefits outweigh the risks for anyone below 65. There's no significant difference. Why does the CDC still recommend jabs for 6 month olds when according to this there is no difference. 5-11. same. 18-29 same. 30-49 virtually no difference. 50-65 comorbidities start kicking in but still little difference. This whole thing is skewed by the 80+ group where age and severe comorbitities play a huge role. At this age a cold can be enough to kill you.

Edited May 6 by dinsdale

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The numbers in the NYT chart above are small, but they're average weekly COVID death rates per 100,000 population in the U.S.  And when you multiply those out thru a population of about 330 million people, and 52 weeks in a year, suddenly they're not so small.

 

Also, that chart happens to be for the period Oct. 1, 2022 to April 1, 2023, which was pretty well past the peaks of COVID deaths in the U.S., that had occurred earlier. The NYT graphic roughly covers the October 2022 to April 2023 period marked by my red box in the US CDC COVID deaths chart below:

 

 

Source:

 

[dinsdale]

55 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

Another point that I take exception to. From personal experience, I find the vaccinated more prone to being struck down with Covid (I work in an office and the results are always the same).

An interesting point. Do boosters make a person more suseptable to getting covid? 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

An interesting point. Do boosters make a person more suseptable to getting covid? 

 

If and when you can provide any credible evidence showing or even suggesting that they do, then I'll start to pay attention...

 

Meanwhile....

[dinsdale]

25 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If and when you can provide any credible evidence showing or even suggesting that they do, then I'll start to pay attention...

 

Meanwhile....

If you can't tell the difference between positing a question and making a statement what I posted was the former and as such no supporting evidence is required. 

[cowellandrew]

Ah now they tell you!

 

Tell my brother inlaw, who had a blood clot in the brain, 

Fit and healthy before getting the vaccine and boosters,

And there was 3 other similar cases in our small village 

[Robert Paulson]

8 hours ago, dinsdale said:

People vaccinated does not automatically equate to lives saved. How is this number aquired? What was and now is the death rate between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated? Why did and still do vaccinated people die from (not with) covid-19? How can it possibly be known if a vaccinated person who contracted covid was "saved" by the jab and not their own immune system? How do we know that delta would have killed more and it's only the vaccines that prevented this? Why weren't entire populations of the unvaccinated killed by the virus e.g. countries with very low vaccination rates like in Africa or Eastern Europe? These are valid questions. As for goverments approaving vaccines this is done after extensive testing. This was as you well know not the case this time around. As for risk benefit as it stands what do you think is a greater risk to a healthy 25 year old. Omicron or an mRNA booster?

Just take best case scenario and vaccine does save lives, how do we know the negative impacts won’t outweigh the positive in the long run

[MicroB]

19 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

  what exactly does "partially" vaccinated actually mean?

 

Partial vaccination means the same as for any other vaccine; failure to complete the prescribed dosages. The number of dosages depends on the vaccine. The term is synonymous with "incomplete vaccination".

 

For instance, if you have the HBV vaccine, which typically uses a recombinant antigen produced in yeast cells or hamster ovarian cells, you need 3 vaccinations before you can be considered fully vaccinated. The HBV vaccine gives 80% effectiveness against the risk of developing hepatitis. Conversely, the whooping cough vaccine (Pertussis) is considered non-sterilising, ie it does not stop infection, nor prevent spread, but it does mitigate the illness.

 

The problem is the term "sterilizing vaccine"; a vaccine that prevents infection. Its a biological myth, because its based on how a disease is measured. The usual measure of the efficacy of a vaccine is the prevention of illness, and the disappearance of cases. In most cases, disease is determined by symptoms. But its actually impossible to demonstrate infection never occurred.

 

The measles vaccine is held up as a highly effective vaccine; it virtually eliminates measles in kids. But, when vaccination levels falls, there is a resurgence in cases. The vaccine, it turns out, doesn't prevent infection events. It prevents kids developing measles (rash), but if you start testing for the measles virus, its still circulating among those kids.

 

The paradigm for infection detection is increasingly molecular. In 2020, it was PCR. In the next pandemic, it will be CRISPR, with 1-2 orders of magnitude increase in sensitivity and specificity. The myth created by Danish physician Peter Ludvig Panum when he assessed the effectiveness of measles vaccination in the Faroes, in the 1840s, which he observed to be perfectly effective, will be eroded.

 

The lay public, in general, do not understand how vaccines work. Why would they, its not a topic they paid much attention to at school.

 

The HPV vaccine is near enough perfect in preventing cervical cancer in women. Its probably the most effective vaccine known.

 

The Rabies vaccine, at most, provides 2 years protection, but more typically 6 months protection. One wouldn't quibble though about efficacy after being bitten by a rabid dog, like I was (and I had the early recombinant version into the belly).

[MicroB]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The documented death or injury numbers from COVID vaccines are tiny compared to the documented vast numbers of lives saved and illnesses avoided from COVID.

 

When governments approve a medical treatment or vaccine, I don't think they ever say there will be no side effects. What they say, and what is required for approval, is that the benefits significantly outweigh the risks, as was the case here.

 

 

Its a wasted discussion now. People are set in their beliefs.

 

Jonas Salk invented the first Polio vaccine. It took 20 years of research, kickstarted by Roosevelt. The vaccine arrived after 40 years of a Polio epidemic that lead to summer shutdowns of beaches, swimming pools and schools. Roosevelt, a Polio survivor, did not live to see the Salk vaccine. Eisenhower did, and Ike literally cried when he awarded Salk with the Cogressional  Medal.

 

What is less remembered is that first Salk vaccine was a disaster. There was nothing wrong with the vaccine, which used a formaldehyde inactivated polio virus (viruses was still a novel concept, having only been discovered in the 1930s). Back then, there were no clinical trials. 3 companies were contracted by the US government to scale up production of Dr Salk's vaccine, and get it into the arms of American kids. One of those companies though didn't know how to make formaldehyde. Consequently, 200,000 does went out with live virus.

 

As a result, the FDA was created, because the government realised it wasn't enough to invent a new medicine, you also needed to know how to make it.

 

The mistake though didn't stop parents getting their kids vaccinated. The Polio vaccination campaign is the second most successful vaccination programme in history.

 

In the 1860s, people in Leicester rioted over the smallpox vaccine. They didn't want it. The Labour party campaigned to get rid of the vaccine act, and the formation of the NHS brought an end to it, followed by a catastrophic collapse in smallpox vaccination rates in the UK. In 1962, smallpox broke out in Bradford. People were soon queueing for it.

 

Some attitudes change, some do not.