I am am not going to ramble too much here. I just wonder what you guys think of modern drugs created to control emotional states? Is the fact that the western world takes so many drugs for minor mental issues resulting in a lack of original thought? Does it make us more susceptible to others suggestions and thoughts? Does the child taking ritalin(sp?) for ADD lose their creative egde? Does the person popping prozac lose their ability to assert themselves?

Are these drugs taking away what makes humans?

I am am not going to ramble too much here. I just wonder what you guys think of modern drugs created to control emotional states? Is the fact that the western world takes so many drugs for minor mental issues resulting in a lack of original thought? Does it make us more susceptible to others suggestions and thoughts? Does the child taking ritalin(sp?) for ADD lose their creative egde? Does the person popping prozac lose their ability to assert themselves?

Are these drugs taking away what makes humans?

Interesting post bops. Iwas expecting a thread about all those lovely drugs I took in my youth!

Regarding the drugs you do mention, as they are dealing with 'mental' disorders, if they go too far, then yes, they do quash the creative edge sometimes making the person into a bit of a zombie! However, a good friend of mine in Dublin had to take some drugs (can't remember what type) and when he took them he was as 'normal' as normal can be, a good bloke. Without his drugs he became a danger to himself and others. I suppose it's about getting it right.

Bit of a long winded reply to this, but i feel its relevant to the topic and gives a personal perspective.

I was prescribed some prescription drugs about 3 years ago. Initially prozac and then .. forget the name ..some other anti-depresent. Both of them made me feel horribly numb. I felt like i was just going through the motions of life, rather than living it. Granted I was in a bit of an emotional state from a very bad circumstance, but what i needed was to sort through my emotions, not become some walking zombie.

I decided that taking them wasnt for me and against my doctors recommendation stopped taking them instantly. I went back to feeling a bit distressed, but the relief i felt from actually 'feeling' was actually better. As I had no insurance that would cover counseling and the nhs waiting list would have taken around a year for me to be seen, so i decided to pay privately. Best thing I could have done. Having someone listen and guide me through the emotions was more than any drug could have provided. I gained insight and understanding.

It shocks me how quickly doctors prescribe anti-depresents. Although I suppose not entirely their fault, seeing as there are not many other options. The thing that bothers me is how little resources are put into mental health therapies. Although less of a stigma attatched to mental health, it still seems to be viewed with apprehension. I took sick leave from my work, and at the time one of the jobs i did was one with children (an art club). The doctor had written 'mental exhaustion' as my reason for leave, and although I had been the club supervisor for over a year with no sick days, my employer ended up 'letting me go' and said she did not feel confident giving me a reference for future work with children. This was also after hounding me with phone calls trying to find out exactly what was 'mentally' wrong. Made me utterly sick and had i been in the right frame of mind i would have sought advice on her behaviour.

Anyway..I think that for the most part drugs are too quickly and freely prescribed. If a person is SERIOUSLY distressed, as in suicidal or violent etc, then short term it may indeed make sense to prescribe a drug, but for the most part I believe mental health should be tackled with therapy and psychoanalysis. We have the ability to self-heal but we need to be taught how to.

As for ADD, I really dont know tbh, so cant comment.

That was very brave (and noble) of you, eek, to post your personal experience...

We all have our demons we wrestle with at times. And we all have our coping mechanisms.

Some have Religion (see other thread).

Some have Pattaya.

Some have the solace of Demon Rum.

And others have......Thai Visa

McG

Bit of a long winded reply to this, but i feel its relevant to the topic and gives a personal perspective.

I was prescribed some prescription drugs about 3 years ago. Initially prozac and then .. forget the name ..some other anti-depresent. Both of them made me feel horribly numb. I felt like i was just going through the motions of life, rather than living it. Granted I was in a bit of an emotional state from a very bad circumstance, but what i needed was to sort through my emotions, not become some walking zombie.

I decided that taking them wasnt for me and against my doctors recommendation stopped taking them instantly. I went back to feeling a bit distressed, but the relief i felt from actually 'feeling' was actually better. As I had no insurance that would cover counseling and the nhs waiting list would have taken around a year for me to be seen, so i decided to pay privately. Best thing I could have done. Having someone listen and guide me through the emotions was more than any drug could have provided. I gained insight and understanding.

It shocks me how quickly doctors prescribe anti-depresents. Although I suppose not entirely their fault, seeing as there are not many other options. The thing that bothers me is how little resources are put into mental health therapies. Although less of a stigma attatched to mental health, it still seems to be viewed with apprehension. I took sick leave from my work, and at the time one of the jobs i did was one with children (an art club). The doctor had written 'mental exhaustion' as my reason for leave, and although I had been the club supervisor for over a year with no sick days, my employer ended up 'letting me go' and said she did not feel confident giving me a reference for future work with children. This was also after hounding me with phone calls trying to find out exactly what was 'mentally' wrong. Made me utterly sick and had i been in the right frame of mind i would have sought advice on her behaviour.

Anyway..I think that for the most part drugs are too quickly and freely prescribed. If a person is SERIOUSLY distressed, as in suicidal or violent etc, then short term it may indeed make sense to prescribe a drug, but for the most part I believe mental health should be tackled with therapy and psychoanalysis. We have the ability to self-heal but we need to be taught how to.

As for ADD, I really dont know tbh, so cant comment.

Yes, thank you for sharing that. I under what you went through. I have known many you have been told to take a drug that they really didn't need and when those that they worked found out they were treated differently. Sad, really.

Well eek, not a long rambling reply as all. I too was prescribed anti-depressants for a while as my life had just become so black! They didn't have any effect at all! So I decided to stop taking them and work through my problems, time heals all wounds and all that. It took a while but a turning point was when I started to laugh again. My wife commented that it had been so long since she heard me laugh, it was then I realised that I'd turned a corner! Cos I laugh a lot! Life sometimes still gets me down but usually I'm very up-beat and positive. And hey, life is good. Espwcially when you consider the alternative!

Be happy!

Im really glad you got through it tigs. Iindeed life has its ups and down and its all a natural process.

Drugs may help many, esp if there is a chemical imbalance, but a vast amount of people just need time and support to heal. I think it is perfectly natural to feel pain from certain events or situations in life, and we should be allowed the time to get through it. Maybe the grieving process is uncomfortable for society so they want everyone going about their usual business asap. Maybe thats another reason prescription drugs are commonly given. Or, because there is still stigma noone wants their employers and family knowing there is any 'mental' issue.

Does it make us more susceptible to others suggestions and thoughts?

I think yes. I think we lose strength and go about like sheep on autopilot. Having little faith in your own judgement may make you rely more on others opinions and suggestions because they seem more 'together'.

Does the child taking ritalin(sp?) for ADD lose their creative egde?

Wouldnt know, but, when i took anti-depressents I did not feel creative in the least. Seeing as creativity is part of my work and life on a daily basis, this was very scarey at the time.

Does the person popping prozac lose their ability to assert themselves?

Again i think yes. I think if I had not been feeling vunerable and 'zombiefied' I would have had the ability to assert myself against the poor treatment from the employer i mentioned. (edit: hmm scrap that. i was in a vunerable state even without any drugs so did not have strength to tackle the issue. The issue there wasnt the drugs it was me. So, in answer to that, I guess it would depend on each individuals reactions to the mediCation)

Are these drugs taking away what makes humans?

It depends i think on each individual, but i think its more society that is taking away what makes us human than the drugs themselves. We should be allowed to heal from emotional wounds without stigma. There is still a need to educate about mental health issues.

Im really glad you got through it tigs. Iindeed life has its ups and down and its all a natural process.

Drugs may help many, esp if there is a chemical imbalance, but a vast amount of people just need time and support to heal. I think it is perfectly natural to feel pain from certain events or situations in life, and we should be allowed the time to get through it. Maybe the grieving process is uncomfortable for society so they want everyone going about their usual business asap. Maybe thats another reason prescription drugs are commonly given. Or, because there is still stigma noone wants their employers and family knowing there is any 'mental' issue.

Does it make us more susceptible to others suggestions and thoughts?

I think yes. I think we lose strength and go about like sheep on autopilot. Having little faith in your own judgement may make you rely more on others opinions and suggestions because they seem more 'together'.

Does the child taking ritalin(sp?) for ADD lose their creative egde?

Wouldnt know, but, when i took anti-depressents I did not feel creative in the least. Seeing as creativity is part of my work and life on a daily basis, this was very scarey at the time.

Does the person popping prozac lose their ability to assert themselves?

Again i think yes. I think if I had not been feeling vunerable and 'zombiefied' I would have had the ability to assert myself against the poor treatment from the employer i mentioned. (edit: hmm scrap that. i was in a vunerable state even without any drugs so did not have strength to tackle the issue. The issue there wasnt the drugs it was me. So, in answer to that, I guess it would depend on each individuals reactions to the mediCation)

Are these drugs taking away what makes humans?

It depends i think on each individual, but i think its more society that is taking away what makes us human than the drugs themselves. We should be allowed to heal from emotional wounds without stigma. There is still a need to educate about mental health issues.

Once again good post and thanks for sharing. I think you and I agree on this issue.

I very much agree with eek.

There may be some instances when the urgent objective requires some medical help, but we are designed to heal ourselves.

What is seriously lacking is the guidance for this.

Yet in our world, we are far too easily prescribed medicines to "heal" us.

This is SOOOOOOO wrong, (i feel v. strongly about this) and it is incomprehensible to me that some people don't understand it.

And of course, these medicines are designed to bring about a state of normalcy, depending on what the drug is.

Yet, all to often people become dependant upon them.

And, as mentioned earlier, a state of "normalcy" can ONLY be obtained WITH the drug, then.

Totally wrong approach, and as the sheep the human race has become, we've kept swallowing the bull.

I very much agree with eek.

There may be some instances when the urgent objective requires some medical help, but we are designed to heal ourselves.

What is seriously lacking is the guidance for this.

Yet in our world, we are far too easily prescribed medicines to "heal" us.

This is SOOOOOOO wrong, (i feel v. strongly about this) and it is incomprehensible to me that some people don't understand it.

And of course, these medicines are designed to bring about a state of normalcy, depending on what the drug is.

Yet, all to often people become dependant upon them.

And, as mentioned earlier, a state of "normalcy" can ONLY be obtained WITH the drug, then.

Totally wrong approach, and as the sheep the human race has become, we've kept swallowing the bull.

The Abolition of Man wouldn't you say Kayo?

dam.n right.

as Eek said:

Both of them (the drugs) made me feel horribly numb. I felt like i was just going through the motions of life, rather than living it. Granted I was in a bit of an emotional state from a very bad circumstance, but what i needed was to sort through my emotions, not become some walking zombie.

I decided that taking them wasnt for me and against my doctors recommendation stopped taking them instantly

Absolutely right ( as usual Kayo......man with beer ).

I will take a drug that helps the healing process. But to take one that simply masks the problem is asking for trouble down the line. Often it/they become an excuse for the medical profession to not seek a cure, as they make so much d-amn money for the chemical plaster.

Medication for someone who has genuine homicidal or suicidal tendencies should be an option.

Anti-depresants for someone who is feeling a bit down should be the last resort, unfortunately these days it's usually the first.

The lowest point of my life had to be when my mother died five years ago. I booked a week off work, spent four days barricaded inside my house and poured as much alcohol into my system as I could, I then spent one day unconscious and the next two sobering up.

During the last two days I wrote down (on the computer) all the things that were depressing me, and then all the things that either made me happy or things I had to look forward to.

The happy list was considerably longer than the depressing list, so I dusted myself off and went back to work.

Am I hooked on alcohol?

Yes, I was beforehand anyway, but outside of that period, it's in moderation and purely for pleasure. Life is too short to spend most of it numb.

Self-help first, guidance second, medication last.

I think its shame that doctors have become sales people for big pharma and don't look to alternative remedies enough to help people with their problems.

How many can be taught to cope with daily stresses and strains of life with meditation instead of medication?

I keep my finding myself beating that drum, I am not a hippy but it does help.

Medication for someone who has genuine homicidal or suicidal tendencies should be an option.

Anti-depresants for someone who is feeling a bit down should be the last resort, unfortunately these days it's usually the first.

The lowest point of my life had to be when my mother died five years ago. I booked a week off work, spent four days barricaded inside my house and poured as much alcohol into my system as I could, I then spent one day unconscious and the next two sobering up.

During the last two days I wrote down (on the computer) all the things that were depressing me, and then all the things that either made me happy or things I had to look forward to.

The happy list was considerably longer than the depressing list, so I dusted myself off and went back to work.

Am I hooked on alcohol?

Yes, I was beforehand anyway, but outside of that period, it's in moderation and purely for pleasure. Life is too short to spend most of it numb.

Self-help first, guidance second, medication last.

Yes, meds last and only for the most extreme cases. We as humans have survived this long with mental based drugs, why do we feel we nned them so much now?

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

Does that include drugs that are known to lead to addiction which overides the consious thought process ?

I think you're all over simplifying, somewhat. I have experiences on both sides of this.

I was prescribed sleeping tablets/tranquilisers when I was about 12 for a bad time I was going through. I took the prescribed dosage the first day & slept like the dead for 14 hrs. After that, I halved it, but still didn't like the feeling. So, I flushed the rest down the toilet. I'd been taking them for 4 days. I couldn't sleep for a week after that.

That worried me, so I'm very funny about what medication I take. I've since thought I might have an addictive personality - I certainly overuse alcohol to destress. I stopped drinking for 4 months earlier this year & now I'm back on as much as I was before.

I have been prescribed anti-depressants on several occasions since then & have refused them. I'm more scared I'll become dependant than I am of stifling creativity.

Having said all that, during my nursing experience, I worked on an acute mental health ward for a while. A lot of the illnesses were treated by drugs & a lot of the patients didn't like to take them. But we could see improvements in the psychoses that some of the patients suffered, through drug therapy. Bipolar disorder (manic depression, back then) & paranoid schizophrenia were two of the most common disorders in there, at that time. It can be quite scary to be sitting with someone hearing voices telling them to harm you & them telling you what the voices are saying about you. It's very scary for the patient, too. If drugs can help alleviate that, even at the expense of creativity or "feeling", surely that's good?

As a side note, while I was there, one of our patients went on day release & didn't come back. He went to his ex-girlfriend's house & murdered her. I have no idea what medication he was on, or whether he had taken it or not. If there was a link to medication, I'm sure everyone involved in that sad case would rather his "creativity" had been stifled. Even him, probably.

Does that include drugs that are known to lead to addiction which overides the consious thought process ?

Yes.

I think you're all over simplifying, somewhat. I have experiences on both sides of this.

I was prescribed sleeping tablets/tranquilisers when I was about 12 for a bad time I was going through. I took the prescribed dosage the first day & slept like the dead for 14 hrs. After that, I halved it, but still didn't like the feeling. So, I flushed the rest down the toilet. I'd been taking them for 4 days. I couldn't sleep for a week after that.

That worried me, so I'm very funny about what medication I take. I've since thought I might have an addictive personality - I certainly overuse alcohol to destress. I stopped drinking for 4 months earlier this year & now I'm back on as much as I was before.

I have been prescribed anti-depressants on several occasions since then & have refused them. I'm more scared I'll become dependant than I am of stifling creativity.

Having said all that, during my nursing experience, I worked on an acute mental health ward for a while. A lot of the illnesses were treated by drugs & a lot of the patients didn't like to take them. But we could see improvements in the psychoses that some of the patients suffered, through drug therapy. Bipolar disorder (manic depression, back then) & paranoid schizophrenia were two of the most common disorders in there, at that time. It can be quite scary to be sitting with someone hearing voices telling them to harm you & them telling you what the voices are saying about you. It's very scary for the patient, too. If drugs can help alleviate that, even at the expense of creativity or "feeling", surely that's good?

As a side note, while I was there, one of our patients went on day release & didn't come back. He went to his ex-girlfriend's house & murdered her. I have no idea what medication he was on, or whether he had taken it or not. If there was a link to medication, I'm sure everyone involved in that sad case would rather his "creativity" had been stifled. Even him, probably.

Well, that would fall under those extreme cases I mentioned. Someone truely nuts needs drugs, the people who have minor issues ADD, certain forms of depression, and others really aren't in need of such drugs. They aren't extreme and therapy can work for them or time will work out the kinks. That is what I am talking about. The murderer you are talking about had more than behavior issues, chemical imbalance or other serious problems yes and he needed drugs.

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

I do not fully agree with that chownah. When someone is feeling depressed /emotionally unstable /distressed etc, they are often not in their 'right mind' so to speak, so need proper care and guidance. For some, when clinically depressed, it is difficult enough making simple decisions such as "can i really get out of bed and face the world today?", let alone bigger decisions. Also, as pointed out, those who are feeling suicidal or have serious mental disorders may require medication to stablise them.

It IS our bodies and lives, but sometimes due to circumstances a person may not value their body and life or have any clarity of judgement. At those times the responsibility for personal health and wellbeing are better placed in someone elses hands until the individual feels more stable.

If someone is feeling suicidal then without proper care or attention they may hurt themselves or if someone is psychotic they may hurt others. If a person is in an unstable state of mind where they are a threat to themselves or others, intervening is necessary as well as being the most responsible and caring approach rather than letting the individual decide.

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

I do not fully agree with that chownah. When someone is feeling depressed /emotionally unstable /distressed etc, they are often not in their 'right mind' so to speak, so need proper care and guidance.

Absolutely. Although i have no personal experience of actually taking drugs. I remember when my dad died, he was 39 and my mum 38. I was 18 and in the Royal Navy at the time.

To cope with my fathers death, the doctor put my mum on Valium. I came home on leave again about 4 months later and the change in my mum was the most aweful sight i can remember. She was gaunt, unstable and well you get the picture. She was hooked and it took a further 4 years to wean her off the Valium.

Now, i'm no doctor but i'm sure she would have got over the grieving process alot quicker, without the Valium.

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

I do not fully agree with that chownah. When someone is feeling depressed /emotionally unstable /distressed etc, they are often not in their 'right mind' so to speak, so need proper care and guidance.

Absolutely. Although i have no personal experience of actually taking drugs. I remember when my dad died, he was 39 and my mum 38. I was 18 and in the Royal Navy at the time.

To cope with my fathers death, the doctor put my mum on Valium. I came home on leave again about 4 months later and the change in my mum was the most aweful sight i can remember. She was gaunt, unstable and well you get the picture. She was hooked and it took a further 4 years to wean her off the Valium.

Now, i'm no doctor but i'm sure she would have got over the grieving process alot quicker, without the Valium.

So, are you saying that she wanted to take the valium in the first place? Are you saying that she should not have been allowed to take the valium in the first place?....that valium should be illegal to use in the way the doctor prescribed it for her? If it was ok for her to take valium in the first place (since I don't know if this is the case this is a hypothetical) then at what point should it have become not ok for her to continue?...and who should have made her stop?...the law...the doctor...you....someone else?

Also, a more general comment not related to anyone in particular: Addiction is a problem that people have because of their mental makeup....addiction is not a problem for most people. Many people don't believe this but if you look at the number of people who develop an addiction problem from taking prescription morphine while under a physicians care you will find that it is very small. Most people can take narcotics and not develop an addiction problem because they do not have a predisposed mental makeup. I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction.

Also, It is my view that if someone is in a mental condition that they can not make decisions for themselves and this has been formally determined in some way, then someone should be appointed as their guardian and that guardian should make the decisions about what drugs that person should take. Unless this is done then the individual should decide for themselves...in my view.

Chownah

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

I do not fully agree with that chownah. When someone is feeling depressed /emotionally unstable /distressed etc, they are often not in their 'right mind' so to speak, so need proper care and guidance.

Absolutely. Although i have no personal experience of actually taking drugs. I remember when my dad died, he was 39 and my mum 38. I was 18 and in the Royal Navy at the time.

To cope with my fathers death, the doctor put my mum on Valium. I came home on leave again about 4 months later and the change in my mum was the most aweful sight i can remember. She was gaunt, unstable and well you get the picture. She was hooked and it took a further 4 years to wean her off the Valium.

Now, i'm no doctor but i'm sure she would have got over the grieving process alot quicker, without the Valium.

So, are you saying that she wanted to take the valium in the first place? Are you saying that she should not have been allowed to take the valium in the first place?....that valium should be illegal to use in the way the doctor prescribed it for her?

Don't try to put words in my mouth Chownah.

No i am not saying my mother wanted to take Valium. The Doctor prescribed them to her. My Mother hadn't got a clue about the drug. She was depressed and the doc gave them to her. What else should she have done.

All i was saying was, it ended up her being on these drugs for 4 frikkin years. Would she have got over the death of my father quicker without them? Would she have had a full blown nervous breakdown? I don't know, i'm not qualified to say.

In my case as in a fair few people I know, SSRIs was just what was needed.

I did not notice any particular side effects, the citalopram I took just helped me get my bearings back and take me through the rough patch I was in without putting my life on hold.

I stopped medicating by gradually decreasing the dose over time when I felt reasonably good again. Coming off them was a bit weird, it caused some strange neural millisecond blackouts when I was turning my head quickly from one direction to another, but these disappeared completely in about two weeks.

Its all food for thought as no easy answer.

I guess all that we hope for is someone who knows what they are doing and how to take care of us if we are ever in need of help.

With regards to your mum mrboj, im sorry that she went through that. As you have said, maybe if she had not taken the valium then her distress would have gotten too much for her to bare. Maybe it was a life saver, but with a bitter edge (4 years addiction)? Who knows.

I believe most doctors now rarely prescribe valium (and if they do, its for short term emergency) because of its addictive qualities. There seems to be quite a lot of work put into finding anti-depressants that are not addictive anymore. I just wish more investment was put into the NHS (or similar free/low cost health care) for psychological approaches, for most psychologists charge around 100-150GBP per hour. Not an easy sum to pay out for regular appointments.

But, as was mentioned earlier, seems the drug companies which monopolise this sector.

Chownah.

Sorry but I have seen many too many

immature kids go down the path of addiction.

Not all folk are as strong as you may think.

No disrespect, but drugs and young minds do not mix.

Take the time to watch a film called Rush. It may change your opinion

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

I do not fully agree with that chownah. When someone is feeling depressed /emotionally unstable /distressed etc, they are often not in their 'right mind' so to speak, so need proper care and guidance.

Absolutely. Although i have no personal experience of actually taking drugs. I remember when my dad died, he was 39 and my mum 38. I was 18 and in the Royal Navy at the time.

To cope with my fathers death, the doctor put my mum on Valium. I came home on leave again about 4 months later and the change in my mum was the most aweful sight i can remember. She was gaunt, unstable and well you get the picture. She was hooked and it took a further 4 years to wean her off the Valium.

Now, i'm no doctor but i'm sure she would have got over the grieving process alot quicker, without the Valium.

So, are you saying that she wanted to take the valium in the first place? Are you saying that she should not have been allowed to take the valium in the first place?....that valium should be illegal to use in the way the doctor prescribed it for her?

Don't try to put words in my mouth Chownah.

No i am not saying my mother wanted to take Valium. The Doctor prescribed them to her. My Mother hadn't got a clue about the drug. She was depressed and the doc gave them to her. What else should she have done.

All i was saying was, it ended up her being on these drugs for 4 frikkin years. Would she have got over the death of my father quicker without them? Would she have had a full blown nervous breakdown? I don't know, i'm not qualified to say.

Don't accuse me of trying to put words in your mouth. You have bad breath and I wouldn't go anywhere near your mouth on a dare.

From a respectful (and safe) distance,

Chownah

Chownah.

Sorry but I have seen many too many

immature kids go down the path of addiction.

Not all folk are as strong as you may think.

No disrespect, but drugs and young minds do not mix.

Take the time to watch a film called Rush. It may change your opinion

Thanks for suggesting the film but really I already know alot about drugs both from personal experience and from reading and discussing with others and I doubt it would change my opinion or show me anything new. Children are usually not allowed legal drugs in most societies already so overall this is not a very strong objection to what I have posted...in my view.

Chownah

now now... the violence thread is elsewhere you two. We won't have any hendbags drawn in here.