richard_smith237 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrJ2U said: 4 hours ago, scottiejohn said: They are not "available everywhere"! They may be readily available but not everywhere! Just three doors down from where I am sitting in CM (a main road in the city) the shop owners don't even know what a QR code is never mind use them! My laundry does not use them either! Perhaps they don't understand you? Thats a more realistic possibility.... Its like going into a 7-11 and asking them to Microwave a food item you've purchased... Use the word microwave and you'll get a blank stare... Use the word 'wave'... and thats it.. they know exactly what you want. Its the same with the QR code... Mention anything other than 'Sa-kan' (scan) and they won't know what you mean... While there may be 'some' vendors who don't use QR payment, these days most do, wet-markets, even if you don't have the cash to pay a taxi driver he'll accept a QR Payment... 7-11 is the one of the only places I know that doesn't (as its TrueMoney Wallet there for reasons explained by others). Edited May 16 by richard_smith237 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 4 hours ago, george said: 4 hours ago, koolkarl said: Governments have a record on their computer systems forever of everything you buy, where and how much. It is the ultimate government control and a reason why cashless is coming soon. Hmmm. Do you think the Thai Govt are checking your 7/Eleven and Lotus purchases and how many liters you fill up in your vehicle for example? And scrutinizing your electric bill if you pay online? Or your bar bill if you pay with QR? Exactly... Some of these guys seem like absolute nutcases... kind of like the doomsday preppers of the monetary world - they're buried so deeply into their paranoia the simplicity of common sense eludes them... We've been paying with our Debit Cards, Credit Cards for decades... We've been paying with 'tap-n-go' for about 10 years... a QR or True Money wallet is not really any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 3 hours ago, digbeth said: Actually, some Thai vendors who previously accepted QR transfers are now rejecting it as they were hit with a visit from the revenue department and tax bill as certain threshold of incoming transfers trigger automatic reporting by the bank Two points here... Firstly... Tax is paid income from profits.. not turnover... Which 'Thai Vendors' were visited by the revenue department ?? - are you sure you aren't projecting some 'whatifery' into the debate and peddling it as something that has occurred ??? 3 hours ago, digbeth said: Other reasons that shops that previously accepted QR payment but now reject it is some old mom and pop got scammed by buyers that show their screen that they'd transferred but didn't, some old folks don't know how to check if they had received the funds on their end, or it's the shop owner's account and employee can't know if the payment came through or not QR transfer is as instant as a debit card, credit card, union pay, tap-n-go transaction... there is an instant notification of the receipt of funds.. Those not checking funds have been received are opening themselves up to scams as you pointed out - every time I use a QR code payment, the vendor doesn't need to see my confirmation as they receive their own. But, how is this issue any different from receiving counterfeit cash ?? Additionally... businesses can set up notification to more than one devise... i.e. thats how shops know you've paid - they don't have access to the account, but have access to the notification of payment at the point of sale. That said, I'd agree that a 'mom & pop shop' may not have this set up correctly... and an assistant may not be able to confirm that the account has been paid as they may not receive the notification... But again, how is this different than someone paying with a 'fake 500 baht note' ??? - can the average Thai shop assistant identify a fake bill ? --------- The 'Anti-cashless' argument always seems to carry the same flaws... the point raised are based around paranoia and when presenting the argument the balance of a bigger picture is missed - as above, digbeth only mentioned the risk of getting scammed by a photo of a QR code, but ignored the risk of 'counterfeit cash'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 I want to point out, that I'm not anti-cash... There is a place for cash in society, I believe all shops should accept cash and all payment options. Its bad business to refuse any payment method. But... what I do see in these debates is repeated flawed arguments against 'cashless' payments. ------ The only valid argument I have ever read about cashless payment is the devaluation of currency when the cashless transaction comes at a cost... (which it doesn't with Tap-n-go, QR Payment and TrueMoney, Apple Pay etc). BUT... the 3% credit card charge per transaction IS and issue.. thus, when a person pays 1000 baht for an item, the vendor receives 970 Baht.. That 1000 Baht is now worth 970 baht to the vendor, who pays another vendor by card, that original 1000 Baht is now worth 940 baht.... After 22 Credit Card transactions the value of that 1000 baht has been halved... to 511 baht (if 3% is taken each time). But, that doesn't happen with QR payments or TrueMoney Wallet - so its only an issue with credit cards. But, we don't see the same 'anti-credit-card' argument as we do the 'anti-cash-less' (anti QR payment argument) - which highlights to me the whole basis of this argument is not based around fact, but purely emotional and some are attempting to justify their 'emotional choices'... If people have their preference, just because thats what they prefer, thats fair enough... But the arguments presented to justify that choice are often very flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digbeth Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said: Two points here... Firstly... Tax is paid income from profits.. not turnover... Which 'Thai Vendors' were visited by the revenue department ?? - are you sure you aren't projecting some 'whatifery' into the debate and peddling it as something that has occurred ??? There are revenue threshold of 2 million baht per year that if the shop reaches, has to join the VAT system, business tax on profit of course is separate the new reporting rule from bank is anyone that has over 3000 transactions get reported to revenue department, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 5 hours ago, josephbloggs said: 12 hours ago, it is what it is said: pay by cash, it's much quicker than faffing around with the QR code payment system Pay by QR, it's much quicker than faffing around looking for the right money or waiting for the cashier to count your money, calculate change, then get the change, then count it twice, then hand it over and wait for you to put it away before they can serve me. Not to mention all the germs that money is coated in. Such nonsense posted in these threads. If you like cash, use cash. No one wants to convert you to cashless - we don't care - just do what you prefer. But don't make up stupid stories to try to make cashless sound slow or inconvenient, just use cash if you prefer it and save us the boring posts. Absolutely agree... ... Though, I don't want to live in a world without cash... my own reason for using cashless is nothing other than it being so very quick and convenient... I guess its how adaptable we are to the changing and developing world. That said, the debate has a place... and its interesting for me as it highlight the extent people will go to to justify their choices and seem to lose a sense of critical balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 2 minutes ago, digbeth said: There are revenue threshold of 2 million baht per year that if the shop reaches, has to join the VAT system, business tax on profit of course is separate the new reporting rule from bank is anyone that has over 3000 transactions get reported to revenue department, And whats wrong with that ?? Are you suggesting everyone should be avoiding tax by using cash ? This leads to a larger debate about tax.. but one of the reasons some countries are less developed can be tied directly to the amount of tax paid, or rather the amount of missing tax... If everyone paid tax - there may be a national ambulance service, a better fire service, better public hospitals, Police better paid and less corrupt etc... No one likes paying tax, but it benefits society.... Most businesses already have well over 3000 transaction... my BiL has a restaurant and probably exceeds 3000 transactions in a month... many of those are 'online orders'... Regarding the VAT issue... thats also beneficial as it avoids the cascading of tax in other areas, public funds have to come from somewhere... so people Pay VAT on their spending.... there is less demand for income tax etc... Thus a noodle shop selling a bowl of noodles for 50 baht... may have to increase their price to 55 baht to account for the VAT - but theoretically, that offsets the demand for income tax, but greater spending power remains in the market The economics its more complex than this of course - but again, it highlights the flaw in the argument you presented. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottiejohn Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 2 hours ago, MrJ2U said: Perhaps they don't understand you? Regarding laundry, maybe it's time you "manned" up and bought a laundry machine. The public machines are filthy! It is not a language/understanding problem! They do not use them! Who said anything about using public machines! I said a laundry and meant a proper family run laundry who do it all for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottiejohn Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said: Thats a more realistic possibility.. It is not in my case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolkarl Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 6 hours ago, george said: Wow! Could you please elaborate on that? Figure it out Einstein. I don't spoon feed for free. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJ2U Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 (edited) 42 minutes ago, scottiejohn said: It is not a language/understanding problem! They do not use them! Who said anything about using public machines! I said a laundry and meant a proper family run laundry who do it all for you! Well millions of Thais and falangs use there QR scanners to pay for items at 7/11 and forward thinking laundromats everyday. Are you sure your in Thailand? Your best bet is get a friend or 7/11 staffer to assist you. Perhaps True Wallet is attached to all banking apps? Good luck! Edited May 16 by MrJ2U Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottiejohn Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 37 minutes ago, MrJ2U said: Well millions of Thais and falangs use there QR scanners to pay for items at 7/11 and forward thinking laundromats everyday. Are you sure your in Thailand? Your best bet is get a friend or 7/11 staffer to assist you. Perhaps True Wallet is attached to all banking apps? Good luck! Crass and meaningless post! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolkarl Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 On 5/15/2024 at 2:35 PM, richard_smith237 said: Why ? what do the government get out of someone buying their 7-11 toastie with their TrueMoney wallet ???? Figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 2 minutes ago, koolkarl said: On 5/15/2024 at 10:35 AM, richard_smith237 said: Why ? what do the government get out of someone buying their 7-11 toastie with their TrueMoney wallet ???? Figure it out. 50 minutes ago, koolkarl said: 7 hours ago, george said: Wow! Could you please elaborate on that? Figure it out Einstein. I don't spoon feed for free. You can't answer the question either because the delusion is just that.... The degree of paranoia is quite amusing, in a pathetic 'I don't want the government to know what type of underwear I'm wearing' kind of way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post richard_smith237 Posted May 16 Popular Post Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, scottiejohn said: It is not a language/understanding problem! They do not use them! I have yet to find a business in Thailand that does not accept QR payment, though I'm sure there are a handful of 'mum & pop' type shops who haven't moved to that yet... As other posters have mentioned, we see the QR codes all around these days, even wet markets etc. Thats not to suggest cash is an issue, just that using the excuse that 'not 100% of places accept a QR Promptpay' as an excuse not to use QR Payments is rather flawed. ------- Slightly off topic - I'd rushed out to meet friends and watch the rugby... got to the bar (in Thailand)... had drinks etc.. It was only when the bill came that I realised I'd forgotten my wallet... This was a few years back pre-covid, the bar/pub didn't have a QR Payment option at that time... ... No issues, a staff member accepted QR Payment directly and was able to pay cash. (of course, I fully expect someone to pipe up how they never forget their wallet etc.. but thats just dumb and misses the point - stuff happens). Plenty of other options... Borrow from friends and transfer to them. Another option would be to go to an ATM and do a cardless withdrawal (with the phone). My point here - having multiple options available to us is an advantage.... Limiting ourselves seems somewhat shortsighted. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubascuba3 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 6 hours ago, MrJ2U said: All 7-11's have that option to scan you're bank app from your phone. They'll be happy to help you. Can you talk us through what you did at 7 Eleven to scan using your bank app? no one else has ever done it before, only using truemoneywallet works 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said: 6 hours ago, MrJ2U said: All 7-11's have that option to scan you're bank app from your phone. They'll be happy to help you. Can you talk us through what you did at 7 Eleven to scan using your bank app? no one else has ever done it before, only using truemoneywallet works Indeed... 7-11 will not permit a transaction through 'PromptPay' which is the payment from Bank to Bank (via Mobile Banking App), either through them scanning a QR code on your phone, or through you scanning the QR code on the Point of Sale Machine. MrJ2U must be getting mixed up between 7-11 and another convenience store such as Tops, Big-C Local, FamilyMart, Lawsons etc... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJ2U Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said: Can you talk us through what you did at 7 Eleven to scan using your bank app? no one else has ever done it before, only using truemoneywallet works My wife just corrected me. TrueWallet only at 7/11. Wife said I have to sign up at a True Shop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJ2U Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said: MrJ2U must be getting mixed up Yes. Wife just admonished me. Truewallet only. No prompt pay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJ2U Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 8 hours ago, george said: You did NOT used PromptPay QR at 7-Eleven today. They don't accept PromptPay QR. Sorry George, You were right. Wife just set me straight on True Wallet for 7/11. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 27 minutes ago, MrJ2U said: Sorry George, You were right. Wife just set me straight on True Wallet for 7/11. The wallet is not too bad, but iffy to setup. I did it with passport and scanned visa page only a year or two ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 35 minutes ago, MrJ2U said: Yes. Wife just admonished me. Truewallet only. No prompt pay. No worries... the 'TrueWallet' thing caught me out when I first tried to use PromptPay in 7-11.... Its all quite daft IMO... but, its easier than using cash... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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