5 year multiple entry DTV visa (Destination Thailand) from 2024-xx-xx

[Mike Teavee]

8 minutes ago, sikishrory said:

I read a report on here yesterday morning. It was either in this thread or the other thread. I can't be bothered looking for it. The guy mentioned just having 1 medical appointment and receiving the visa.

If they ever did want to see proof of a “Medical Appointment” on each visit (and I don’t think they will)  180 days could tie in nicely with 6 month dental check-ups. 

[save the frogs]

you folks seem to be either more optimistic or having better luck than me so far.

I did not like that response I got from the embassy regarding proof of cooking course for 3 months. sounds like an ED visa to me. 

seems too good to be true that you can continually renew this visa with a single medical appointment.

but I don't want to be overly negative and spoil your party.

but neither do I think I will be one of the first adopters of this visa. i prefer to wait to see how people get on with it. 

 

[shdmn]

31 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

If they ever did want to see proof of a “Medical Appointment” on each visit (and I don’t think they will)  180 days could tie in nicely with 6 month dental check-ups. 

No evidence yet that they will accept dental appointments.  It is quite possible as they don't seem to be strict about any of it.

Edited July 28 by shdmn

[atpeace]

Going to America soon and coming back November 1 which is 9 day prior to my O visa expiration.  Hope to have more info by then but agree with the last 2 posts above.  I live on the border and the visa would be ideal for me.  One of my favorite destinations in the world is 30km from the border in Lao so I could take a few week trip every 180 days and not have to worry about entry stamps.

 

  Not a huge advantage for me since my 800k is in the bank but could even deplete this account which would be another plus.  Have to check on my health insurance with AXA.  I think I remember it required residency.  Lots of unintended consequences is my biggest worry.

[The Fugitive]

14 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Going to America soon and coming back November 1 which is 9 day prior to my O visa expiration.  Hope to have more info by then but agree with the last 2 posts above.  I live on the border and the visa would be ideal for me.  One of my favorite destinations in the world is 30km from the border in Lao so I could take a few week trip every 180 days and not have to worry about entry stamps.

 

  Not a huge advantage for me since my 800k is in the bank but could even deplete this account which would be another plus.  Have to check on my health insurance with AXA.  I think I remember it required residency.  Lots of unintended consequences is my biggest worry.

I like Laos. My Mrs thinks it's too rough! The border is 240 km away and $52 USD Lao eVisa fee is also a consideration.

[atpeace]

2 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

I like Laos. My Mrs thinks it's too rough! The border is 240 km away and $52 USD Lao eVisa fee is also a consideration.

That visa fee is why I don't go there more often.  Basically 3,500 each crossing with re-entry stamps and car stamps.  2,500 with DTV(no re-entry) is much better.  Also might look into other long term Lao visa options.  It is rougher than Thailand and eating out is risky.  I eat lots of canned and other processed food but many with stronger stomach don't have an issue.  

[zzzzz]

12 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

 

Yep, this really is a game changer. 

 

With my current non-imm O I can stay in Thailand for 1900 baht per year + 3800 baht per year for multi re-entry permit. So 28,500 baht for 5 years.

 

For DTV it seems I can book my same annual check-up at Bangkok Hospital I always do and get a 5 year multi-entry visa. Total cost in 5 years would be:

 

Initial visa - 14,400 baht (A$600 or US$400)

Yearly extension: 1900 baht x5

Yearly border hop: 3500 baht x4 (no need in last year)

 

So total cost is 37,900 baht

 

Oops, non-inm O is 9400 cheaper without being forced  to leave the country once a year.

 

In fact if only get the single re-entry permit to match the one DTV departure, non-imm O is 23,400 baht cheaper over 5 years. Or don't leave at all in 5 years and save 28,400 over the DTV

 

BUT you need tie up 800,000 baht/year
VS
500,000 baht for one day
5% interest on 800.000 /year=40,-000 baht x 5   = 200,000 baht!!!
NOW which is cheaper

 

Edited July 28 by zzzzz

[atpeace]

12 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

 

Yep, this really is a game changer. 

 

With my current non-imm O I can stay in Thailand for 1900 baht per year + 3800 baht per year for multi re-entry permit. So 28,500 baht for 5 years.

 

For DTV it seems I can book my same annual check-up at Bangkok Hospital I always do and get a 5 year multi-entry visa. Total cost in 5 years would be:

 

Initial visa - 14,400 baht (A$600 or US$400)

Yearly extension: 1900 baht x5

Yearly border hop: 3500 baht x4 (no need in last year)

 

So total cost is 37,900 baht

 

Oops, non-inm O is 9400 cheaper without being forced  to leave the country once a year.

 

In fact if only get the single re-entry permit to match the one DTV departure, non-imm O is 23,400 baht cheaper over 5 years. Or don't leave at all in 5 years and save 28,400 over the DTV

 

For you yes but what if you live on the border or close to it? No need for the the yearly extension? Simply cross the border and come back or spend time travelling.  No worry about bank balances and earn 4-5% interest with deposits back home.  Both options IMO are not expensive so it just is a matter of convenience which is different for each individual.  I really want to try the new visa out for a year but not sure if I'm ready to pull the trigger.

 

Like the idea of using an annual health checkup.  I wonder what documentation is need and and where to get this checkup in Ubon.  I arrange my checkup myself.  Go to a government hospital with a list of blood work and other tests needed.  The meeting with the doctors the last 10 years have been pointless.  I am much better at analyzing the results  because I know my personal health history.  Have no issue with spending more if I can find a place to provide the needed documentation. 

 

I'm rambling....

[zzzzz]

one thing no one has brought up

and one thing i am concerned with as this is very attractive 

How will immigration look at issuing this new 5 year visa and seeing the applicant has been on a yearly retirement ( or marriage)  extension for 1, 2, 5 years?

 

[atpeace]

6 minutes ago, zzzzz said:

one thing no one has brought up

and one thing i am concerned with as this is very attractive 

How will immigration look at issuing this new 5 year visa and seeing the applicant has been on a yearly retirement ( or marriage)  extension for 1, 2, 5 years?

 

Too many what ifs! That is where I'm at now. 

 

Then again what is the worse that can happen?  

* It ends up being too cumbersome to get extensions.

     Solution: ditch it and go back to O or whatever.  Pain but not a real concern for me.

* You lose residency benefits.  5 yr vs 2 yr driver's license, health insurance???, some hospitals charge different rates for tourists     vs residents, ...

*  You lie on your DTV application and are restricted from entering Thailand

    Solution: Don't lie

 

Any other bad outcomes?

 

[racket]

1 hour ago, atpeace said:

Too many what ifs! That is where I'm at now. 

 

Then again what is the worse that can happen?  

* It ends up being too cumbersome to get extensions.

     Solution: ditch it and go back to O or whatever.  Pain but not a real concern for me.

* You lose residency benefits.  5 yr vs 2 yr driver's license, health insurance???, some hospitals charge different rates for tourists     vs residents, ...

*  You lie on your DTV application and are restricted from entering Thailand

    Solution: Don't lie

 

Any other bad outcomes?

 

 

Agreed. Perhaps it would help to apply for a new passport to clear up all the pages with retirement stamps. You'll likely be in the system, but it could be a good first step.

[zzzzz]

1 hour ago, atpeace said:

Too many what ifs! That is where I'm at now. 

 

Then again what is the worse that can happen?  

* It ends up being too cumbersome to get extensions.

     Solution: ditch it and go back to O or whatever.  Pain but not a real concern for me.

* You lose residency benefits.  5 yr vs 2 yr driver's license, health insurance???, some hospitals charge different rates for tourists     vs residents, ...

*  You lie on your DTV application and are restricted from entering Thailand

    Solution: Don't lie

 

Any other bad outcomes?

 

How can u lie? its all in the computer, ur complete visa history
new passport wont make a bit of dif ( regardless just got  a new one last nov) 

good point about driving License, as to get the 5 year u need be on a non o/b

Edited July 28 by zzzzz

[Lorry]

13 hours ago, Maestro said:

I see the requirement of documents for the 180-day extensions as the only important question remaining open with the DTV. The existing Police Order for extensions needs to be amended or replaced before the first applications are made at immigration offices.

 

Until then, it is a free for all for guesses, assumptions, speculations and expectations in this regard.

This is the only new point in Chris Parker's latest video.

The MFA official said, requirements for extension would probably be the same as when applying for the visa.

He was honest enough to say that he can only guess. It's not in the realm of MFA, it's immigration who will decide these requirements for extension.

 

 

 

[Lorry]

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

I would definitely not assume this.  It is unspecified how long an interval is needed after leaving the country and returning  but good bet IOs will often flag, question and even refuse entry to people whose entry history indicates long term (more than a year) residence in Thailand.  Same as they now do for visa exempt entries.  Of course possible some visa run companies will partner with a "flexible"  remote border outpost, again like with visa except entries. But this will not be risk free.

 

I expect that with time and experience some restrictions will be added on number of  entries per year. As happened with visa exempt entries. 

 

It is clear that the visa is not intended for people settling here permanently and there will surely be push back when it becomes apparent people are trying to use it that way. 

 

Should work for retirees who also spend significant time back home or travelling to other countries though. 

I agree. 

 

There is a big difference between denying entry to a visa-exempt arrival and denying entry to a holder of a valid visa. But it has happened before iirc.

 

As for days outside of Thailand (after 180 days), the MFA official from Chris Parker's latest video stated "1 day".

I don't know where he got that from, I doubt this is written anywhere, and I doubt whether immigration is bound to follow this rule.

 

Last not least, @georgehas posted repeatedly that you can get this visa only once (why?)

So if you are retired and live mostly in Thailand, what are you going to do  5 years from now? 

 

 

 

 

[Angus55]

On 5/30/2024 at 5:00 AM, at15 said:

Well its 10k, plus extension is supposed to be 10k.  Thats 20k for a year. And also I'm assuming they will not let people live in the country indefinitely on this visa as its essentially a tourist visa. Probably a one and done scenario then you have to wait a year to comeback.

So then you get a tourist visa and extend that...I do t get why people want to stay i definitelh in Thailand anyway. Unless you have a Thai wife, then you get married.

[sallecc]

20 hours ago, Mark987 said:

Anyone try and get the DTV in Kuala Lumpur trough E-visa or in person application? Seems to work now for Cambodia and Vientiane but wondering if KL is the same.

 

 

Unfortunately on KL embassy's website for DTV 'workcation' they require "employment contract / certificate *in Malaysia*", unlike Cambodia and Laos.

 

I was planning to apply in KL, but it looks like Cambodia and Laos are only options left (and Kota Bharu consulate, but I'm not interested in going there).

 

Penang consulate didn't publish their own DTV requirements yet.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 hours ago, save the frogs said:

My Embassy said for cooking class, I need proof that I will be attending FOR AT LEAST 3 MONTHS. 

 

That's an interesting take on their idea of what will qualify...

 

Would you mind saying, what country's embassy took that stance?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I would definitely not assume this.  It is unspecified how long an interval is needed after leaving the country and returning  but good bet IOs will often flag, question and even refuse entry to people whose entry history indicates long term (more than a year) residence in Thailand.  Same as they now do for visa exempt entries.  Of course possible some visa run companies will partner with a "flexible"  remote border outpost, again like with visa except entries. But this will not be risk free.

 

Sheryl, in the YT interview posted above of the deputy director general of the MFA, he made it pretty clear that there was NO limit on the number or frequency of re-entries allowed under the DTV... and no mention of any kinds of minimum times outside the country being required.

 

It is a 5-year visa with unlimited re-entry permissions to stay of up to 180-days each... and with each re-entry, the ability to do one in-country extension at Immigration  for another 180 days...

 

So to me, at least, it's pretty clear that they envision DTV holders to be able to remain in the country long-term for up to 5 years.... provided they do the requisite 180-day departures and/or make use of the in-country extensions.

 

Admittedly, the source is from MFA, not Thai Immigration. But at this point, I'm not seeing any sign or evidence that they're planning to restrict the DTV comings and goings the same ways they have with visa exempt or other methods.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 hours ago, shdmn said:

Nobody has tried the hospital appointment thing yet that I am aware of.  It's also not clear whether you will need to show another appointment each time you re-enter or extend.  He did say that you have to show digital nomad proof again when you extend.

 

The MFA guy interviewed above said there would be NO documentation requirements for DTV holders when re-entering Thailand ... just present the visa only. No requalification process.

 

However, just the opposite if the same DTV holder instead wants to do the single in-country 180-day extension allowed at Thai Immigration per each new arrival in country. At Immigration for that extension, the MFA guy indicated proof of continuing eligibility WOULD be required.

 

[racket]

44 minutes ago, sallecc said:

 

Unfortunately on KL embassy's website for DTV 'workcation' they require "employment contract / certificate *in Malaysia*", unlike Cambodia and Laos.

 

I was planning to apply in KL, but it looks like Cambodia and Laos are only options left (and Kota Bharu consulate, but I'm not interested in going there).

 

Penang consulate didn't publish their own DTV requirements yet.

 

 

More information about DTV in Cambodia can be found here: 

https://phnompenh.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/destination-thailand-visa-dtv?page=5d73b14415e39c46f40076a1&menu=5d73b14415e39c46f40076a3

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

Last not least, @georgehas posted repeatedly that you can get this visa only once (why?)

So if you are retired and live mostly in Thailand, what are you going to do  5 years from now? 

 

That's an interesting nuance... Do we know the underlying source for the claim that the 5-year DTV might be a one and done proposition?

 

That is/was a subject (renewals of the 5-year DTV visa itself) that didn't get broached at all in the MFA guy's comments and interview.

 

[LivinLOS]

On 7/26/2024 at 3:59 PM, anrcaccount said:

 

They're giving it away like candy.

 

I don't think people realise this is the biggest relaxation in Thai visa rules in a very long time. Decades likely. 

 

Game has radically changed, it's open season now. 

Oh I think we do.. and exactly why the retirees and married are moaning.. 

LTR for wealthy folks with zero tax 
DTV for younger folks, trivially easy to obtain.. years of come and go. 
60 days +30 visa exempt entry, do nothing and get what a multiple entry TR used to get.

The floodgates have been opened, just as the tax laws change and close the savings loophole. 

[LivinLOS]

13 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's an interesting nuance... Do we know the underlying source for the claim that the 5-year DTV might be a one and done proposition?

 

I questioned it too but no reply.. Only 'his sources'.. 

I also heard from a trusted source that he went to cheang wattana and the officers there didnt agree.. IIRC he claimed 2 said unlimited 1 said 1 time 180 over the 5 years, so there is confusion at immigration level still. 

Remember the video is dp dir of the MFA, they sell the visas, but arriving and handling here is immigration, totally different and does have its own understandings sometimes. 

[Lorry]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Do we know the underlying source for the claim that the 5-year DTV might be a one and done proposition?

At the time @george posted this I asked this question. I never saw a response. But @georgeis not known for posting BS.

 

The five-year visa without the hassle of yearly extensions (where you never know whether you will get it) sounds tempting.

Leaving every 180 days is no problem for me, I do this anyway.

 

Right now the DTV seems easy to get. I don't think it will stay like this and one should get it soon.

But on the other hand I expect problems with extensions or reentries.

It's a gamble. 

[racket]

Just now, Lorry said:

At the time @george posted this I asked this question. I never saw a response. But @georgeis not known for posting BS.

 

The five-year visa without the hassle of yearly extensions (where you never know whether you will get it) sounds tempting.

Leaving every 180 days is no problem for me, I do this anyway.

 

Right now the DTV seems easy to get. I don't think it will stay like this and one should get it soon.

But on the other hand I expect problems with extensions or reentries.

It's a gamble. 

 

As I understand it, you don't need to leave after 180 days. You can extend your stay for another 180 days for a fee of 1900. Once you have reached a total of 360 days, you'll have to leave and return to activate another 180-day period.

[Lorry]

16 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Remember the video is dp dir of the MFA, they sell the visas, but arriving and handling here is immigration, totally different and does have its own understandings sometimes. 

Well said.

 

In another country I was once told by the MFA "we don't like Immigration lets you stay here. We think they should kick you out. But we can't do anything about it, it's Immigration's decision.

But we won't give you a visa to reenter once you left"

 

Opposite of Thailand :)

Edited July 28 by Lorry

[LivinLOS]

On 7/27/2024 at 4:29 AM, racket said:

 

The key factor to consider is the income tax requirements. I believe an individual becomes liable for income tax in Thailand after staying in the country for 180 days or more, unless a tax treaty applies. However, it’s relatively easy to circumvent this by leaving Thailand and returning before reaching that threshold. It will be interesting to see how this situation evolves.

 

Here are more details on the tax requirements: https://www.expattaxthailand.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf

The situation doesnt go away of course, the days for tax residency is totally independant of what visa class, you could be tax resident and on 60 day visa exempt entries. 

But it does mean you wouldnt have any real interaction with immigration, so how does it then get enforced. 

[LivinLOS]

On 7/27/2024 at 7:28 AM, Matt S said:

Are most people going down the workation route?

 

I’m wondering if the soft power route is better if we get tax questions at a later date.

 

would be good to hear of soft power dtv visas being issued and what documentation was required.

In tax terms it shouldnt make a difference, as the test is 180 days.. After that all inbound funds are 'potentially' taxable.. The workaction or soft power aspect means nothing in law, it might of course mean something in mindset and application of it later I do understand. 

[LivinLOS]

18 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

While unintended, it also tempt many who already reside here on other visas to switch, due to the ease vs their yearly mountain of paperwork. 

Already seen and had discussions with many different folks talkign about closing company or even BOI smart categories.. Some chatted with me about Hong kong corps and usa LLCs to be thier employer specifically to stop Thai incorporation and offshore themselves while living here. 

Lower taxes, ability to keep funds offshore from Th and not pay corp taxes, thai internet sales tax, etc etc.. Businesses that were non viable for online incorp here due to Thailands costs, taxes and beaurocracy are now fully legal to do. 

[LivinLOS]

17 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

About the issue of a DTV holder wanting to do subsequent 180-day in-country extensions at Thai Immigration (one per each new entry to Thailand allowed under the 5-year visa), one thing that the MFA official indicated in the video was that Thai Immigration, in addition to asking for the standard 1,900 baht extension fee each time, would also want to see documentation of eligibility for the visa extension itself each time. Even in years 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 of the original visa.

 

Unfortunately, the MFA official didn't go into any further detail about that issue... But for example, if someone gets a DTV visa in 2024 based on attending a Thai cooking class or for some medical procedure, it raises the question of whether Immigration in years 2-5 is going to be satisfied with the original DTV documentation OR whether they're then going to want to see some ongoing, then-still-current proof of eligibility.  That question wasn't addressed.

 

But, if I were a guessing / betting man, assuming the MFA official was correct about how Immigration will handle DTV visa in-country extensions, my guess would be that in years 2-5 of the DTV visa, that they're going to want to see some then still-current proof of eligibility -- not just repeating proof of some activity done back in 2024 and then not continued into the ensuing years.

 

Presumably, for in-country DTV extensions, that also would include having to each time prove the DTV holder still has the required 500K baht on deposit in a bank account somewhere (in or out of Thailand).

 

 

 

If local immigration put up too many barriers, people will just border bounce.. Its self defeating because theres a super simple alternative.