Sexual assault in an international school

[pedro01]

1 minute ago, Dnyy said:

 

I'm not a troll. You are just weak and need others from a forum to help you on something this serious. What message are you sending to your daughter now? Daddy is scared and is waiting for other adults to step in. Typical Westerner behavior.

 

Ok I get it now.

 

I am so scared that I am handling this issue myself.

 

If I was brave like you, I'd ask an influential figure to sort it out for me.

 

Typical spineless behaviour.

[Dnyy]

Just now, pedro01 said:

 

Ok I get it now.

 

I am so scared that I am handling this issue myself.

 

If I was brave like you, I'd ask an influential figure to sort it out for me.

 

Typical spineless behaviour.

 

So your brother-in-law more important than your daughter. Got your message now. You know, whatever you can do you should do right now. The longer you wait the harder it will be to get something done. 

[pedro01]

8 minutes ago, stoner said:

 

Depends....which side you sitting on.

 

Depends which way you are passing.

[Presnock]

15 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

Sounds like a good school.

 

If my daughter was sexually assaulted at school Id would make sure the offending boys were be expelled at the very least.

 

What a nightmare for any father.

 

Some of these "private" schools are just money making machines for the owners and the children's safety and education isn't really any concern.

some of the worse are from rich local families and know that their family will keep the school from doing anything that might jeopardize their money.  a lawyer with contacts might be the best bet but don't punish the victim and make sure those responsible are out of that school system

[stoner]

19 minutes ago, Dnyy said:

Typical Westerner behavior.

 

similar to your bull in a china shop approach ? 

[Presnock]

5 hours ago, pedro01 said:

OK - so just to confirm - this is an English International School - not a Thai school. All teachers and headmaster are Western. The admin board is Thai. As I understand it, the owner is Indian - I could be wrong about that. 

 

My daughter came back yesterday. She's distraught. She is putting on a brave face. She does not want to go back to school for a couple of reasons. First - because she fears the friends of the boys that attacked her. Second because she fears one particular boy. This is her choice and I would not force her to go back. We are just spending time with her and spoiling her. 

 

My daughter is 14 and so are the boys. And we all know about the age of criminal responsibility here. Still - there are Juvenile courts here and I have spent time in them. I have seen errant kids up in front of those judges and it sure helped wipe the smiles off a lot of faces. 

 

The boys parents had to collect them from the school trip the day after it occurred. We spent a lot of time on the phone with our daughter, who insisted on staying the additional night of the school trip to spend time with friends. She's 14 - her choice. She did regret that. The friends of the boys sent home were passively-aggressively hostile towards her after she reported the event. And therein lies one issue with the school in my opinion. For kids to blame a victim en-masse for reporting an assault to me seems to imply a culture. Surely the other boys should have been revolted by their friends behavior?

 

None of the boys will be expelled. One boy (on the schools football team) has now assaulted my daughter 3 times. He has assaulted other girls who have not come forward and reported it as they are scared of the repercussions. He is not being expelled, he is being suspended. As far as I know - he will still be on the football team and be rewarded with trips around Thailand and to neighboring countries to play matches. I cannot absolutely confirm this - but it is what the teachers told my daughter - so it's second hand. The school has not informed me of any punishments. The boy that has committed the most assaults has been told he must distance himself 2 meters from my daughter at all times - but considering he feels it's ok to sexually assault a girl, why would he follow this rule?

 

On the other hand - my daughter (who was honor student last year), loves her teachers, she loves her friends, she is doing amazingly academically - and I LOVE the school for that. My son went there and is now in year 3 of University and sitting on a GPA of 4.0 - and he has learning difficulties. Why should she have to leave?

 

4 parents are Thai and one is foreign. I am not sure who is richer than who at the school - nor do I really care. We don't sit at the school gates swinging our d**** around. 

 

I have lodged a formal complaint with the school - which according to their complaints procedure - will bring in teachers and a headmaster from another international school to make a decision. The school has confirmed that the complaints procedure has started. Two teachers were in the room when my daughter was attacked at the "disco", teachers were also supervising when she was assaulted in the pool. 

 

The headmaster at the school has also agreed to a sit down in the week with their lawyer and one of the Thai members of the school board. This is a part of the complaints procedure (well, them bringing a lawyer and a member of the admin board isn't) - so I am sure I have the schools attention. Note also that the school has never tried to hide or deny any of the attacks. They are on school records and I have numerous emails. 

 

I contacted two of the fathers already - I can't say anything about that at this point. Other than neither of them are going to shoot me.

 

As for bringing in influential people. It's a possibility - friends of the wife - but you don't call on favors like that in anything but extreme cases. My brother in law was arrested recently. He drives a van and got pulled over on the usual fake charges. He was taking a group of Germans to golf and one got out the car and started taking video of the cop accepting a bribe and threatened to put the video on the internet to expose him. All over 200 Baht. The cops then arrested the German and my Brother in law.  It took one phone call for the police to not only release everybody but to leave them with an apology. No money changed hands. My brother in law offered to still pay the fine but they were too scared to accept it. That is the only single instance my wife has used this contact. This has not escalated to the point where this is required and we are not going to make that escalation ourselves at this point. We also want to be seen as taking care of our own problems as much as possible. You keep a card like that in your back-pocket for REAL emergencies.

 

The boys have sent texts to my daughter - she has not read them and she doesn't want to. We know they are apologies because they then asked Zoe's friends to tell her to read the messages. 

 

We have a meeting booked with our lawyer on Monday. I am not sure when I'll meet with the school as I want my lawyer present for that - and she's normally pretty busy.

Good, meet witht the lawyer, he can advise what are the various responses you can make and get from the school, when meeting with the school officials in my opinion is to get rid of the boys responsible for this activity.  If any other boys or kids try to BLAME your daughter, then they too should be held for their activities.  The school can fix this issue if they choose to do so.  If they don't then it would be up to your daughter but I myself would talk with her about how to stay or go and your support either way.

[steven100]

5 hours ago, pedro01 said:

We have a meeting booked with our lawyer on Monday. I am not sure when I'll meet with the school as I want my lawyer present for that - and she's normally pretty busy.

 

All good then ....     see what your lawyer say's and what course of action to take.  

The school headmaster can fix this in a heartbeat with a bit of swift punishment but he is going down the softly softly road.   

Meet with them with your lawyer present and forcefully explain his limited actions and soft approach is unacceptable due to the nature & circumstances of what continues to happen.

[NativeBob]

The offender(s) MUST be expelled. period.

I know how these things get started - one girl, another girl, bullying, skipping classes and finally everything will turn into that movie with Michelle Pfizer as a teacher and popular song Gangsta's Paradise. 

 

Every parent is on your side, use parents chat. 

Every policeman is on your side.

There's must be a very good example shown to all. 

[Robert Paulson]

16 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

Sounds like a good school.

 

If my daughter was sexually assaulted at school Id would make sure the offending boys were be expelled at the very least.

 

What a nightmare for any father.

 

Some of these "private" schools are just money making machines for the owners and the children's safety and education isn't really any concern.

Yes. Exactly. 
 

People just shove their heads into the sand when it comes to this stuff. The schools are all corrupt. Who on earth knows who they are hiring. Who knows what quid pro quo deals are going on. These schools are just corrupt gangsters just like any politician or other people in power, they just smile nicer when you see them and they have a monk as a front man to clean up the look. It’s complete heist-ville and I think most people know it deep down they just don’t admit it. But once you realize the school is 100% corrupt, nobody bothers to ask themselves “well what kind of people are they hiring”. Let me give you the answer: they don’t care. They’ll hire anyone, as long as the dough keeps rolling in. 
 

But yeah, just keep your heads buried in the sand. 

[Robert Paulson]

Just now, Robert Paulson said:

Yes. Exactly. 
 

People just shove their heads into the sand when it comes to this stuff. The schools are all corrupt. Who on earth knows who they are hiring. Who knows what quid pro quo deals are going on. These schools are just corrupt gangsters just like any politician or other people in power, they just smile nicer when you see them and they have a monk as a front man to clean up the look. It’s complete heist-ville and I think most people know it deep down they just don’t admit it. But once you realize the school is 100% corrupt, nobody bothers to ask themselves “well what kind of people are they hiring”. Let me give you the answer: they don’t care. They’ll hire anyone, as long as the dough keeps rolling in. 
 

But yeah, just keep your heads buried in the sand. 

But as it all pertains to this issue here: nobody cares. And I would say this before I saw what op wrote btw. Nobody will care at all. They just want you to stay enrolled at the school along with the other students who did the harassing. But you’re one student and on the other side there are multiple students. So who do you think they’re gonna want to piss off less? 

[Robert Paulson]

This sounds like a life altering event to me. I go back to my original advice and say home school. You gotta ask yourself… is any of this worth it. Who knows what could happen considering what’s already unfolded. 

[Robert Paulson]

On 5/30/2024 at 9:09 AM, thainet said:

You are being a tad overzealous there RP. As someone noted above, it is not practical for most people, but if you find the time, and have the nous to do it, then great, but don't put others down for not considering it for their own circumstances. Calling people insane is a bridge too far..be nice.

BS. Anyone can do that. And it’s a great chance to be a role model for your kids. Why be leashed to a corporate job? It’s such an easy decision. We’re talking about a major life altering event here and your response when your kids well being is at stake is basically: “the kids will deal with it, I need to get back to work”. 

Edited June 1 by Robert Paulson

[Robert Paulson]

Typical Thailand international school hiring scenario: a very good and qualified teacher comes in with gobs of experience, yet he’s a bit fat and bald. Maybe he doesn’t even use the right cologne. They pass on him. Who do they end up hiring. A young good looking kid and they don’t even check his credentials. 
 

It’s not only that though, I’ve seen how things work at these places. The people who stay in these teaching jobs for years even decades are low quality people imo. And I’ll define low quality in that they simply don’t have any other options. That’s the kind of person who stays in a job for a long time. A person who’s afraid to move jobs because they have no confidence in their skills. 
 

Both the above are recipes for disaster imo. It is nice to have known quantities on payroll but like I said these are usually not the best people as trump would say. 

[sungod]

3 hours ago, Dnyy said:

 

Sorry but kind of parents are you? You using your "special influence" for a useless brother in-law who can defend himself as an adult but won't do anything for your daughter who was SEXUALLY assaulted and is scarred for life?

 

What if someone attacks your family in front of you? Will go to AN and ask for advise or wait for lawyers or even the RTP to help you? In my eyes you are not a man. 

What would your solution be?

[theblether]

2 hours ago, pedro01 said:

 

You mean why would I fight my own battles? I dunno - I think it's to do with those 2 round things between my legs. 

 

One of the things that's been pointed out a lot here is that the parents of the boys themselves may be rich and influential. This is true - it's an international school - the parents are not poor.

 

There is a flip-side to that. The parents of the assaulted girls are equally likely to be rich and influential. 3 sets of Thai parents have this weekend found out that their daughters have been assaulted at school. 

 

 

What do you mean by "sort it out"? This isn't the wild west - I'm not gonna have a 14 year old boy kneecapped am I? FFS.

 

When my daughter was assaulted at school - the boys were suspended. I did not reach out to other parents at the time as the school gave me no indication the boys had done it before. So - we thought it WAS sorted out the first time - and of course - at the time we gave allowances for the fact the offenders were just 13. 

 

I hadn't imagined for a second it might be so widespread. So last time - reported to school, they punished the boys and I thought that would be the end of it. Had I been given more information - I would obviously not let it go.

 

The interesting thing is that you think you are being clever with your replies. With a fire of a thousand burning suns you are convinced you are correct. Good for you. 

 

I wish you good luck in suggesting to an influential Thai that their son is a sexual predator. 

 

You'll soon find out where you rank in this society. 

[Nendo]

10 minutes ago, theblether said:

I wish you good luck in suggesting to an influential Thai that their son is a sexual predator. 

 

You foreigners are all so scared of influential or rich Thais. What do you think they can do? Are you scared of getting killed? 

[rumak]

On 5/30/2024 at 10:46 PM, Robert Paulson said:

People continuously amaze me. Idk bro when they are with their friends. When they are doing activities they love and are passionate about, even with a few of their friends who hopefully share the same passions. 
 

I think the better question is why are we locking active kids up in classrooms in the physical primes of their lives. Why are we not letting them develop passions they have? 
 

Classroom setting is a fabricated environment that’s been manipulated into the collective conscious to make us better tax payers. School isn’t some amazing place where children unlock their minds. It’s a quasi jail sentence for most of them. And don’t even get me started on teachers. Why don’t people admit their kids’ teachers can be god only knows what kind of perverts or psychos. And I know from experience none of them care. Most of them only care about good students in my experience. 

 

i am not surprised (at all)  that you have garnered more negative emojis than the one positive .... for this viewpoint .   My guess is that for every thousand "good servants"  that follow the beaten path of mediocrity and conformity ..... there is maybe one or two that decide for themself what path they want to take.   

How many actually manage to succeed , by finding an alternative and rewarding lifestyle which they will not sacrifice for money or acceptance....

well,   very few .    

ooops.   there i go.   off topic again   🙂

Edited June 1 by rumak

[save the frogs]

If I were in your shoes, I would use this opportunity to be asking myself "are international schools a waste of money?"

 

 

[DavisH]

1 hour ago, Robert Paulson said:

Typical Thailand international school hiring scenario: a very good and qualified teacher comes in with gobs of experience, yet he’s a bit fat and bald. Maybe he doesn’t even use the right cologne. They pass on him. Who do they end up hiring. A young good looking kid and they don’t even check his credentials. 
 

It’s not only that though, I’ve seen how things work at these places. The people who stay in these teaching jobs for years even decades are low quality people imo. And I’ll define low quality in that they simply don’t have any other options. That’s the kind of person who stays in a job for a long time. A person who’s afraid to move jobs because they have no confidence in their skills. 
 

Both the above are recipes for disaster imo. It is nice to have known quantities on payroll but like I said these are usually not the best people as trump would say. 

Are you a teacher by any chance? You seem to know a heck of a lot about Thai schools if you are not. 

[steven100]

The last half a dozen comments are getting off track of what the issue is and what to do.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A father is concerned for his daughters safety follow sexual harassment .......

 

He will act as any other parent would and that is get a lawyer and go meet with the school. 

 

 

enough said ..... 

[Sandboxer]

Not advocating or giving advice:

 

In another life for a brief time I was a (mil) combatives instructor, with two twin daughters living in a dodgy neighborhood in Washington DC. When they turned 13 I bought a couple of cow legs every coupla of days for about 6 months for practicing severing the femoral (very similar to a human femoral as far as location and depth) and a handful of other target points 10,000x with a 4 inch tactical blade. Once I was confident that they were skilled enough to do the damage without being disarmed, I allowed them to EDC a blade of their choice.

 

Luckily, those skills were never needed, likely because other kids and folks in the area knew about it and that was maybe enough of a deterrent.

 

It's a crappy world. Still not sure it was the right thing to do at such an early age. But it lieu of the people in charge (teachers, cops, etc.) not doing anything to protect my child, the duty of physical protection falls on me. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1 by Sandboxer

[Puwa]

Pedro, you did the right thing by connecting with other parents. School administrators generally know how to handle one case, one family, at a time, and are even willing to lose one here and there to "protect" the school. Once you have three families or more, watch the dynamics change. I'm sure you will be able to deal with the boys, and you can probably make the school commit to safety. Tell the school that you want a permanent safety committee made up of parents and students, who will invite participation from the faculty or administration. Find the most capable mother to reach out to others, the most capable father, the most trusted teacher, one outside expert, and girls from each mathayom grade. Start with girls because they have been the ones mistreated. Soon enough safety will encompass bullying, mistreatment by teachers etc. If one school gets it right, other international schools may follow, because it's a reputational thing for them. 

Edited June 1 by Puwa

[Dogmatix]

On 5/30/2024 at 9:05 PM, NorthernRyland said:

Does international schools mean non-Thai students? Some cultures tolerate this and consider it "boys will be boys" etc... maybe even Thailand is like this but I've never seen it myself.

 

Nowadays with a few exceptions it mainly means rich Thai Chinese kids, rich Chinese Chinese kids,  a few look krung and kids of foreign teachers studying for free.

 

  The international element is mainly in the teachers and the syllabus.  

[pedro01]

8 hours ago, theblether said:

 

The interesting thing is that you think you are being clever with your replies. With a fire of a thousand burning suns you are convinced you are correct. Good for you. 

 

I wish you good luck in suggesting to an influential Thai that their son is a sexual predator. 

 

You'll soon find out where you rank in this society. 

 

What would you do in this situation, if you were a grown-up?

[pedro01]

4 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

Nowadays with a few exceptions it mainly means rich Thai Chinese kids, rich Chinese Chinese kids,  a few look krung and kids of foreign teachers studying for free.

 

  The international element is mainly in the teachers and the syllabus.  

 

As succint a description as possible, I'd wager.

 

Edit: sorry, was reading Dickens and got carried away

Edited June 1 by pedro01

[Robert Paulson]

I wonder if these international schools even preclude students from using their phones in classrooms. Probably not. And of course no teachers will fight for them to stop using phones either. Why would they. They don’t care. It’s seriously so easy to tease out what is really going on in these schools. Nobody cares, and parents know this too they are just too caught up in their jobs and work life to admit it to themselves.  

[brewsterbudgen]

52 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

I wonder if these international schools even preclude students from using their phones in classrooms. Probably not. And of course no teachers will fight for them to stop using phones either. Why would they. They don’t care. It’s seriously so easy to tease out what is really going on in these schools. Nobody cares, and parents know this too they are just too caught up in their jobs and work life to admit it to themselves.  

Not a fan of international schools then?  Do you have personal experience of working for one?

[pedro01]

1 hour ago, Robert Paulson said:

I wonder if these international schools even preclude students from using their phones in classrooms. Probably not. And of course no teachers will fight for them to stop using phones either. Why would they. They don’t care. It’s seriously so easy to tease out what is really going on in these schools. Nobody cares, and parents know this too they are just too caught up in their jobs and work life to admit it to themselves.  

 

This is utter nonsense

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Robert Paulson said:

I wonder if these international schools even preclude students from using their phones in classrooms. Probably not. And of course no teachers will fight for them to stop using phones either. Why would they. They don’t care. It’s seriously so easy to tease out what is really going on in these schools. Nobody cares, and parents know this too they are just too caught up in their jobs and work life to admit it to themselves.  

A phone is a useful tool, my kid is in CEP (Chinese and English Project), and uses it to help him with Chinese/English/Thai translation.

[Presnock]

10 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

Nowadays with a few exceptions it mainly means rich Thai Chinese kids, rich Chinese Chinese kids,  a few look krung and kids of foreign teachers studying for free.

 

  The international element is mainly in the teachers and the syllabus.  

In most international schools there are many THAI students also usually from richer families unlike some international schools that also provide scholarships for less than rich local families - the student wll still need to pass the academics for the school but then are provided either US or EU academics...this would also enable at times for these poorer students to go to international colleges.  Yes some of the richer

local kids that go have a "surperiority" attitude in that they think that they can get away with just about anything.   That is why in these instances, it is necessary for the parents to join through a lawyer to ensure that the school realizes that the public will eventually know which school is negligent and doesn't really care about their children, only $$$$.  I have had two girls spend almost all their school years in international schools - luckily every one concerned the educational needs of my kids and they are doing great today and happy.  I never heard about any of this type of acty and if it had occurred then I am sure my daughters would have advised me because they are well aware of how I feel on this issue.