Who said you bank/s aren't passing on your information to governments. Expats be advised !

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

16 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

What you are not understanding is that you are a resident here for tax purposes even though you pay no tax at the moment.  That you have no current tax liability does not exclude you from being resident for tax purposes.

 

Your point being ?

 

What you are not understanding is that regardless of residency status, I do not fit into their basket as a tax resident because I do not have an assessable income, meaning that I am not required to register for a TIN or lodge a tax return, simple really, in other words, if I was deriving an income, I would have to register for a TIN and lodge a tax return.

 

Does this register for you now ?

"Your point being ?

What you are not understanding..."

That is my - and others' -  point.

 

"Does this register for you now?"

Does this register for you now ?

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

Only if you tell them

 

Also, if they don't record departures, as you say, they certainly must record arrivals, so how can one "arrive" when they have never "departed?" 

 

Good question. but they cant cross check with the system they have in place. 

I can't see such a system lasting for too much longer. 

 

One would have to fly back to the UK just to renew their passport, wouldn't they?  How could you apply for a new passport whilst abroad if you have told them you have never left the UK? 

[mfd101]

The problem is that the questions asked don't quite fit the reality of an individual's situation. Residing in a country and being a 'resident' of that country are not quite the same thing, and being a 'tax resident' of that country is something else again.

 

In my case the Australian Tax Office has declared me several years ago to be 'non-resident for tax purposes' because I live in Thailand. So they now confiscate 32.5% of my income which comes from and only from my Australian superannuation earned as a long-term Australian federal public servant.

 

But now my bank (NAB) asks the question: Are you a Thai resident and what is your TIN? To which I reply (truthfully) that I reside in Thailand but am not a Thai tax resident as I pay no income tax in Thailand, my income coming solely from Australia & nowhere else. And that seems to me to remain true at least until 2025 when I expect I will have to get a TIN and fill out a Thai tax form and then show how much tax I pay in Oz ...

[Liverpool Lou]

15 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

The super rich find ways of paying very little or not paying any at all.

Do they really?   Any examples of individuals doing that consistently, i.e. not a legitimate one-off circumstance?

[Liverpool Lou]

10 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Once again, I am not a Brit, so happy to learn, but I read on this website about "pension locks" or "pension freezes" for Brit's living overseas.  Wouldn't that mean the government knows you are outside of the UK, thus lock / freeze the pension? 

Only if he informs the government of his location...except, of course, in the unlikely event that the individual becomes subject of a specific investigation.

[Liverpool Lou]

50 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

One would have to fly back to the UK just to renew their passport, wouldn't they?

No.

[BangkokReady]

On 6/5/2024 at 10:18 AM, timendres said:

It is interesting.

The gold sitting in my safe is not asking me to fill out any forms, nor is it reporting itself to any government agency...

 

What will happen if you need to move your gold from one country to another?

[BangkokReady]

24 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Do they really?   Any examples of individuals doing that consistently, i.e. not a legitimate one-off circumstance?

 

It's always "legitimate".  That's kind of the point.

[Liverpool Lou]

7 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

32 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Do they really?   Any examples of individuals doing that consistently, i.e. not a legitimate one-off circumstance?

 

It's always "legitimate".  That's kind of the point.

I asked that poster for an example of rich individuals paying little or not tax, consistently,  don't suppose you could help him out?  That was, kind of, the point.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, by volunteering to remain a tax resident of the UK, you would be looking at utilizing the UK's DTA with Thailand in order to not have the same money taxed twice.  Is this correct?  If so, wouldn't the goal be to not have the money taxed at all, either in the UK and / or Thailand? 

 

I volunteered to stay UK Tax Resident, before all this mullarkey with Thai taxation cropped up.

 

At the time I told them I was still tax resident because I needed to research what the implications of electing to be non Tax Resident would be, that would be a change rather than continuing my status and I wondered what my banks motive was in asking me.

 

My view now is that nothing has changed, we are not the ones the Thai tax authorities are after and the only change I will be undertaking is making gifts from the UK to my daughters to fund their university education rather than bringing it here first.  And I will not be selling any crypto on a Thai exchange as that is now very closely monitored.

[Doctor Tom]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I can't see such a system lasting for too much longer. 

 

One would have to fly back to the UK just to renew their passport, wouldn't they?  How could you apply for a new passport whilst abroad if you have told them you have never left the UK? 

You don't have to prove that you never left the UK.  Renewing a passport from outside the country signifies nothing more than you are in that country at the time of renewal. You are crediting the systems and overview by officials with far more credit than they are due. Why should they be at all interested? 

[MangoKorat]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Do they really?   Any examples of individuals doing that consistently, i.e. not a legitimate one-off circumstance?

As I mentioned in an earlier post - read The Panama Papers.

[treetops]

21 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

Airline and ship PNRs are kept for 90 days.  Private flights are not kept at all. GA flights are not recorded by name bar the pilot and are not kept after the flight plan expires. There is no search facility available across data bases to find a particular individual, bar those used by the Security Services and Interpol, who are hardly looking for Joe Bloggs on holiday. The Home Office can only estimate emigration numbers, which by definition, will be highly inaccurate.  UK is way behind Thailand in knowing where immigrants are and how many have left.  Its pathetic but true. 

 

API data is logged for all flights, including private ones, for everyone entering or leaving the UK and many other countries.  If the will was there, the UK authorities could track your entries and departures by referring to this information.

[4MyEgo]

18 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Your point being ?

What you are not understanding..."

That is my - and others' -  point.

 

"Does this register for you now?"

Does this register for you now ?

 

One last time for the slow one/s.

 

If you do not have an assessable income and NEVER will, you are NOT required to register for a TIN, if you do not have an assessable income and NEVER will, you are not required to lodge a tax return.

 

If you don't get that, then don't bother with it as I'm done.

 

Call the Thai Taxation Office for confirmation, you might believe it when it comes from the horses mouth, nah probably not.

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

22 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

What you are not understanding..."

That is my - and others' -  point.

 

"Does this register for you now?"

Does this register for you now ?

 

One last time for the slow one/s.

 

If you do not have an assessable income and NEVER will, you are NOT required to register for a TIN, if you do not have an assessable income and NEVER will, you are not required to lodge a tax return.

I never mentioned registration for a TIN, nor income here, I was referring to your apparent misunderstanding of residency for tax purposes, not your individual tax liability, read it slowly.  

[Liverpool Lou]

19 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

21 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Do they really?   Any examples of individuals doing that consistently, i.e. not a legitimate one-off circumstance?

As I mentioned in an earlier post - read The Panama Papers.

As I asked earlier, please provide just one empirical example of a rich person consistently paying little or no income tax.  You claimed that it happens, so you back up your claim.  The Panama Papers do not specifically detail individuals' tax payments as evidence that they "consistently pay little or no income tax" which is the claim that you made.

[JBChiangRai]

19 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

As I asked earlier, please provide just one empirical example of a rich person consistently paying little or no income tax.  You claimed that it happens, so you back up your claim.  The Panama Papers do not specifically detail individuals' tax payments as evidence that they "consistently pay little or no income tax" which is the claim that you made.

 

The uber wealthy use a technique called borrow/die.  They borrow money against their shares and the loan is repaid on death. No tax is paid.

[KhunHeineken]

21 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I asked that poster for an example of rich individuals paying little or not tax, consistently,  don't suppose you could help him out?  That was, kind of, the point.

Plenty on the internet about it.  These are from a quick Google search.

 

For the Americans.

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

 

"ProPublica has obtained a vast cache of IRS information showing how billionaires like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and Warren Buffett pay little in income tax compared to their massive wealth — sometimes, even nothing."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/22/tax-evasion-by-wealthiest-americans-tops-150-billion-a-year-irs.html

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/23/business/billionaires-global-tax/index.html

 

"Billionaires’ personal tax in the United States is estimated to be close to 0.5% and as low as zero in otherwise high-tax France, the Observatory estimated."

 

For the Australians.

 

https://www.9news.com.au/finance/australia-millionaires-ato-data-rich-people-paying-no-tax/726563bf-9fd7-4da4-ae18-498308aac038

 

"Sixty-six millionaires earning almost a billion dollars put together paid no tax last year, according to new data from the ATO."

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

One last time for the slow one/s.

 

If you do not have an assessable income and NEVER will, you are NOT required to register for a TIN, if you do not have an assessable income and NEVER will, you are not required to lodge a tax return.

 

If you don't get that, then don't bother with it as I'm done.

 

Call the Thai Taxation Office for confirmation, you might believe it when it comes from the horses mouth, nah probably not.

NEVER say NEVER about anything in Thailand. 

 

Things can change individually, or collectively, in the blink of an eye here. 

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

What will happen if you need to move your gold from one country to another?

There's always this option. 

 

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/air-india-express-air-hostess-cabin-crew-arrested-gold-smuggling-rectum-hide-2546065-2024-05-31

[KhunHeineken]

23 hours ago, mfd101 said:

But now my bank (NAB) asks the question: Are you a Thai resident and what is your TIN? To which I reply (truthfully) that I reside in Thailand but am not a Thai tax resident as I pay no income tax in Thailand, my income coming solely from Australia & nowhere else. And that seems to me to remain true at least until 2025 when I expect I will have to get a TIN and fill out a Thai tax form and then show how much tax I pay in Oz ...

You will become a tax resident of Thailand after the 27th June 2024, for the calendar year of 2024, provided you haven't traveled outside Thailand from the 1st January until the 27th June. 

[Liverpool Lou]

9 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Plenty on the internet about it.  These are from a quick Google search.

 

For the Americans.

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

 

"ProPublica has obtained a vast cache of IRS information showing how billionaires like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and Warren Buffett pay little in income tax compared to their massive wealth — sometimes, even nothing."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/22/tax-evasion-by-wealthiest-americans-tops-150-billion-a-year-irs.html

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/23/business/billionaires-global-tax/index.html

 

"Billionaires’ personal tax in the United States is estimated to be close to 0.5% and as low as zero in otherwise high-tax France, the Observatory estimated."

 

For the Australians.

 

https://www.9news.com.au/finance/australia-millionaires-ato-data-rich-people-paying-no-tax/726563bf-9fd7-4da4-ae18-498308aac038

 

"Sixty-six millionaires earning almost a billion dollars put together paid no tax last year, according to new data from the ATO."

Not one of those links provides empirical evidence of any one individual "consistently paying little or no income tax", it all hearsay and conjecture.  

[MeePeeMai]

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

You will become a tax resident of Thailand after the 27th June 2024, for the calendar year of 2024, provided you haven't travels outside Thailand from the 1st January until the 27th June. 

 

I agree.  I got my ticket out of here on Sunday the 16th.

 

That leaves me with 10 more days in the bank this year just in case I need to stop off here again this year (for a short time).

[DaLa]

22 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

What will happen if you need to move your gold from one country to another?

He'd have to save first for the whopping excess baggage charge.

[KhunHeineken]

17 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Not one of those links provides empirical evidence of any one individual "consistently paying little or no income tax", it all hearsay and conjecture.  

From the first link.

 

"In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes. He achieved the feat again in 2011."

 

Bezos did it, twice. "Did not pay a penny" is tax, twice.  Do you see a pattern emerging? 

[KhunHeineken]

18 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

 

I agree.  I got my ticket out of here on Sunday the 16th.

 

That leaves me with 10 more days in the bank this year just in case I need to stop off here again this year (for a short time).

Just posted on another thread, those who stand to POSSIBLY lose a considerable amount of money should consider leaving before the 27th June, and return on the 1st January. 

 

They can then sit back, safe from taxation, and observe how it all unfolds, without being exposed. 

 

Depending on what happens early 2025, they can then decide how many days they will stay in Thailand in 2025. 

[transam]

On 6/5/2024 at 9:59 AM, BritManToo said:

The obvious answer is not to tell your bank you live overseas.

Yeh riiiight, well, we all know you do that, you told us, but the computer dots are all lining up for those on the fiddle.......

 

[DrPhibes]

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

From the first link.

 

"In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes. He achieved the feat again in 2011."

 

Bezos did it, twice. "Did not pay a penny" is tax, twice.  Do you see a pattern emerging? 

His companies had losses, you don't pay income tax on overall loss for the calendar year.  Never confuse wealth with income.

[Liverpool Lou]

14 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

34 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Not one of those links provides empirical evidence of any one individual "consistently paying little or no income tax", it all hearsay and conjecture.  

From the first link.

 

"In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes. He achieved the feat again in 2011."

 

Bezos did it, twice. "Did not pay a penny" is tax, twice.  Do you see a pattern emerging? 

Did you read the question that I asked?  Those were legitimate one-offs, so, no, I do not see any pattern of "consistency of non-payment of income tax", and those links refer only to federal income tax.

[KhunHeineken]

6 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Did you read the question that I asked?  Those were legitimate one-offs, so, no, I do not see any pattern of "consistency of non-payment of income tax", and those links refer only to federal income tax.

Well, can you provide some links showing the world's wealthiest actually do pay their fair share?  That's personal tax, not company tax.