Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[chiang mai]

Actually, thinking more about this, if you're not smart enough to get yourself a TIN, you deserve what happens to you later and you probably shouldn't even contemplate living in Thailand.

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, ScotlandtheBrave said:

I have applied for a Thai Tax Identification Number paying for the assistance of a legal firm, and all of my friends are telling me not to be silly as nothing will happen.

Do you think all of your friends are stupid?

[Talon]

56 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Actually, thinking more about this, if you're not smart enough to get yourself a TIN, you deserve what happens to you later and you probably shouldn't even contemplate living in Thailand.

 

And what do those people do who have been refused a TIN? 

[chiang mai]

20 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

And what do those people do who have been refused a TIN? 

Go back and demand one or escalate the matter to region or hq 

 

[chiang mai]

Tell them you want to talk to a supervisor and that you're going to escalate things. Tell them to put their refusal in writing for your overseas bank that has requested the number. Jeeze you have so many choices

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, Talon said:

And what do those people do who have been refused a TIN? 

It's best to remain under the radar until you absolutely have to act or are pressed for time. That's a useful tip for anything here really, including getting bank accounts, tax numbers, etc.

 

The less known you are, the better off you are. Only get involved if it brings some benefit to you or helps someone out in some way.

[norbra]

1 hour ago, Talon said:

 

And what do those people do who have been refused a TIN? 

I am rid of all this conjecture.

I am taking advice from TRD,

I will be doing nothing.

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, ScotlandtheBrave said:

I live on my pension transferred over every month from my UK bank account, and I have already paid tax on my pension in the UK so I am hopeful that when I can prove that in my tax return in Thailand they will be clear that I do not need to pay more tax here in Thailand.

Is that a pension for services provided to a UK govt organization, including the military? If so, if that's the income remitted to Thailand -- this income is not subject to Thai taxation (per DTA), so no need to file a Thai tax return. [But, if a private pension and remitted, yes, subject to Thai taxes, per the DTA.]

 

Did the agent you used to get a Thai TIN ask you why you needed it? Did you mention private or govt pension? Probably not. They just had their hand out.

 

Anyway, common sense says, if you don't need to file a Thai tax return, 'cause you owe no Thai taxes -- no realistic need for a TIN. Yes, specific language says maybe you should get one. But, if you don't -- and no taxes owed -- what's the penalty for avoiding the hassle of arguing with a TRD clerk, who's also relying on common sense.

 

Not to belabor the point here, but to reference a thread, below, that thoroughly discusses TIN requirements. Pay particular attention to 'Troubleandgrumpy", whose arguments are sound and well-presented. Contrast this to Mike Lister's 'black and white' arguments, giving no room for an intelligent interpretation. Lister disappears during the thread -- but his 'black and white' arguments are assumed by poster Chiang Mai.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1327316-tax-id-number/

 

 

 

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Actually, thinking more about this, if you're not smart enough to get yourself a TIN, you deserve what happens to you later

But if you're smart enough to avoid folks who can't think outside the envelope -- you'll probably come to a better solution for a convoluted situation. And what could possibly be the 'happens to you later?' A fine on taxes not owed? Fish sauce on your hotdog? Nevermind.

[Yumthai]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Actually, thinking more about this, if you're not smart enough to get yourself a TIN, you deserve what happens to you later and you probably shouldn't even contemplate living in Thailand.

Halloween post of the day, a little early though. Chilling!

[chiang mai]

Lister was right about one thing.....don't try and give members tax advice when you're not qualified and don't know, just give out information and let members decide things for themselves.

[Talon]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Go back and demand one or escalate the matter to region or hq 

 

 

Confrontation never ends well in Thailand.

[Talon]

3 hours ago, JimTripper said:

It's best to remain under the radar until you absolutely have to act or are pressed for time. That's a useful tip for anything here really, including getting bank accounts, tax numbers, etc.

 

The less known you are, the better off you are. Only get involved if it brings some benefit to you or helps someone out in some way.

 

That is Plan A, and I'm following it closely with Plans B and C close at hand.

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

Anyway, common sense says, if you don't need to file a Thai tax return, 'cause you owe no Thai taxes -- no realistic need for a TIN. Yes, specific language says maybe you should get one. But, if you don't -- and no taxes owed -- what's the penalty for avoiding the hassle of arguing with a TRD clerk, who's also relying on common sense.

 

 

I don't dispute that assessment.

 

I do note thou that there could be different assessments.

 

Of course Thailand is Thailand - and other countries are different.

 

I note thou, that my wife, who had minimal income in Canada, went for about 5 years without filing a tax return.  Revenue Canada contacted her, and demanded she file a tax return for those 5 years. ....  So we spent a few evenings finding the paperwork and submitting the returns.  When the dust settled, Revenue Canada owed my wife a trivial amount of money.  So small - it was not worth the effort to file a tax return.

 

The point here - is sometimes governments want one to file a tax return even when money is not owed.

 

As to Thailand?  I don't know.  There are changes brooding in the tax situation with respect to expatriates - and I can not predict how it will turn out.

 

For 100% certain I can not say whose view is right or wrong. 

 

All I can do is try to structure my finances so not to be impacted until the situation clarifies more.

 

[chiang mai]

9 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

Confrontation never ends well in Thailand.

You can make your demand palatable if you try, it doesn't have to be confrontational, that's something else.

[jwest10]

5 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Actually, thinking more about this, if you're not smart enough to get yourself a TIN, you deserve what happens to you later and you probably shouldn't even contemplate living in Thailand.

Some have a pink card and been told can use it if and when these forms ever come out!!!

[oldcpu]

4 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Some have a pink card and been told can use it if and when these forms ever come out!!!

 

Perhaps - if one (with a pink ID card) fills in tax form and postal mails (or hand delivers them) to the local Thai RD department.

 

I have a pink-ID.  Its number does NOT work for the online tax submission.  A Phuket Revenue Department official explained to my wife that the pink-ID (of a foreigner) can not be used (online) as a Thailand Tax ID number (TIN) until it has been activated. It MUST be activated as a TIN prior to use as a TIN (for online submission).

 

Activation of the Pink ID to be a TIN may not be as simple as some may suspect.

[Talon]

1 hour ago, jwest10 said:

Some have a pink card and been told can use it if and when these forms ever come out!!!

 

The same has been said to those who possess a Yellow Book.

But still nothing definitive.

[oldcpu]

2 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

The same has been said to those who possess a Yellow Book.

But still nothing definitive.

Indeed.  I believe the relevant pink-ID # is the exact same as the Yellow book #.  And nominally (most the time ?? ) as an expat one needs the Yellow Book first in order to get the Pink ID.

[norbra]

5 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

The same has been said to those who possess a Yellow Book.

But still nothing definitive.

If these books are not registered with TRD then they cannot be used for tax purposes 

Simples

[Talon]

Just now, norbra said:

If these books are not registered with TRD then they cannot be used for tax purposes 

Simples

 

That's another issue. Just repeating what some local TRD offices have communicated.

[norbra]

14 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

That's another issue. Just repeating what some local TRD offices have communicated.

A definite answer is available for these posters from their local TRD office.

How easy is that?

[jwest10]

3 minutes ago, norbra said:

A definite answer is available for these posters from their local TRD office.

How easy is that?

Precisely been told 6 times ok

[norbra]

Just now, jwest10 said:

Precisely been told 6 times ok

But nobody listens

[anrcaccount]

8 hours ago, chiang mai said:

No! Give me a TIN please should be the only thing that needs to be said, no 20 questions games with variable answers based on the phase of the moon

 

 

Reality > Theoretical Understanding of Law

 

Multiple reports continue to come in of people being unable get a TIN in the real world.

 

Your view is:

 

-  People should lie to the TRD in order to obtain a TIN
- TRD officials are lying, as their actions don't agree with your theoretical understanding of the law
- Anyone not "smart enough" to get a TIN, shouldn't contemplate living in Thailand

 

 

The mind boggles.
 

[chiang mai]

12 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Reality > Theoretical Understanding of Law

 

Multiple reports continue to come in of people being unable get a TIN in the real world.

 

Your view is:

 

-  People should lie to the TRD in order to obtain a TIN
- TRD officials are lying, as their actions don't agree with your theoretical understanding of the law
- Anyone not "smart enough" to get a TIN, shouldn't contemplate living in Thailand

 

 

The mind boggles.
 

Ok, don't lie, go pay an agent/tax advisor instead, I really don't care what y'all do. Far too many drama queens and nervous Nigel's for my liking.

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Lister was right about one thing.....don't try and give members tax advice when you're not qualified and don't know,

Indeed. And Lister certainly was not qualified. Fortunately, he's gone -- but where? Sadly, his echo continues here.

[JimGant]

45 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I really don't care what y'all do.

Why would anyone care about what you care about.......

[Lorry]

2 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Reality > Theoretical Understanding of Law

 

Multiple reports continue to come in of people being unable get a TIN in the real world.

 

Your view is:

 

-  People should lie to the TRD in order to obtain a TIN
- TRD officials are lying, as their actions don't agree with your theoretical understanding of the law
- Anyone not "smart enough" to get a TIN, shouldn't contemplate living in Thailand

 

 

The mind boggles.
 

If a local tax office says, you don't need a TIN, they are right, of course..

As of Oct  31, 2024, you don't need one.

Bureaucrats are not in the business of divining the future. 

They follow the regulations they have right now.

 

Example: when some important social security rules in my home country changed,  it was all over the news, and everybody who would read a newspaper knew the starting date.

I called SS - they had heard things would change,  they weren't sure about the starting date (bureaucrats don't read newspapers,  they read official bulletins), and told everybody to wait until they would receive the new regulations. It might take up to 6 months after the starting date,  but they would then apply them retroactively. (It took 9 months)

BTW right know, the tax situation there is like here - everybody knows rules have changed,  everybody would like to know the exact new rules,  tax office is in no hurry. But once they have made up their mind,  they expect payment within 2 weeks.

 

Having said all this, many people DID easily get a TIN.

[Talon]

5 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Reality > Theoretical Understanding of Law

 

Multiple reports continue to come in of people being unable get a TIN in the real world.

 

Your view is:

 

-  People should lie to the TRD in order to obtain a TIN
- TRD officials are lying, as their actions don't agree with your theoretical understanding of the law
- Anyone not "smart enough" to get a TIN, shouldn't contemplate living in Thailand

 

 

The mind boggles.
 

 

I also found this to be a bit off-putting.