Are Unions still relevant?

[susanlea]

2 minutes ago, Flyguy330 said:

Are you a nutter?

Welcome to my ignore list. You're the first ever.

Truth hurts too much then. 

[G_Money]

Ask Jimmy Hoffa!

[jaideedave]

37 minutes ago, Flyguy330 said:

Where to begin......😑

 

Lets start with this - I am living a very comfortable retirement now, thanks entirely to my Union. My Union was not a huxters scam, or a mafia, it was a professional association of men and women determined to protect their job contract and conditions. It was not communist, or socialist, it was anti-corporatist, anti-elitist and anti-exploitationist.

 

If it was not for the solidarity of that group I would not have a pension now, and I would not be living a decent retirement in SE Asia. I would be broke and living in poverty in the freezing cold back home.

 

We stood up to all attempts of self agrandising managers to further their own careers by destroying ours. Yes, it sometimes involved having the backbone to strike. That only ever happened when we were pushed to the absolute limit by managers who believed they could break us. They always failed, and it cost many of them their own jobs.

 

It amazes me how brainwashed and deluded so many of the current generation are. Especially in the United States. Indeed it's a uniquely American product, one of their biggest exports. Workers have bought into the propaganda rammed down their throats by the Corporate Media daily - Unions are bad for you, they are Anti American, Unions are commies, save your money on Union fees, don't expect a permanent job anyway, it's a gig economy so get a gig, health insurance is optional, so get a side gig to pay for it, you have no right to strike, stop complaining, and when you're 60 <deleted> off and die quietly - and the sooner the better.

 

This same US Corporatism has infected much of the anglosphere.  I'm not from the US, but I see the same message sold every day in my home country. When we had our 'disputes' with the company it was shocking to see how certain newspapers simply outright LIED about the issue, about wages and conditions, how they would cherry pick their facts and how they covered up those that didn't fit their biased agenda. It's why I trust nothing I read, see or hear in the mainstream media anymore. It's only when you are directly involved in a newsworthy story that you begin to understand that everything they write is lies or misdirection.

 

The anti Union movement has been hugely succesful in the last couple of decades. It is an organised effort, driven by the corporations and aided by the media they own, and the politicians they buy.

The result is millions of ordinary people seeing their incomes falling year on year. Governments open borders to cheap goods which kill homegrown business, and import dirt cheap manual labour to erode native workers pay and job security. UKIP convinced the Brits that this influx would end if they voted for Brexit - which they obligingly did. But the influx continues, and indeed increased. The Tories are standing for election and making promises to stop it - but they have had 8 years since Brexit and it continued. Why? Because ultimately it suits the Corporate Agenda to destroy British workers wages and job security.

 

It's not just the Tories - Gordon Brown (Labour) perpetrated one of the most disgusting crimes against UK workers in 1997 when he changed the accounting laws on company reports which effectively made the elimination of Defined Benefit Pension Schemes inevitable in the UK. There isn't a single FTSE100 company now that still has a DBPS. https://theconversation.com/britains-great-pension-robbery-why-the-defined-benefits-gold-standard-is-a-luxury-of-the-past-100844

 

My Union defended our DBPS to the death. I'm very grateful, as are hundreds of my colleagues.

 

 

 

"My Union defended our DBPS to the death. I'm very grateful, as are hundreds of my colleagues"

Your situation sounds the sme as mine. At 25 I needed a job and it turned out to be a union shop. A lot of our disputes involved our DBPS, in not allowing the companies access to these funds. I'm grateful to the union leaders for preventing this.Like most I had no choice but to contribute via union dues. I quit after 30 years at 55yo.I have been collecting that pension for 19 years so far. I've met many non union workers over the years that come retirement age are given a watch or nothing at all but making the business owners wealthy. Love them or hate them,I've done well by them.      

[connda]

Yes - but it depends where in the world you're talking about.

[wwest5829]

8 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

I want your opinion on trade unions representing workers in the workplace,are they relevant nowadays?

I know they were strong in the UK once representing miners etc

 

I did hear in the USA some States have banned Unions representing workers .

 

Anyway the reason I ask is because last night during my shift as a hospital cleaner I had a Union person middle-aged bespectacled uni type nerd  turn up to ask why I had left the Cleaners Union several years ago.

 

I immediately told him I had been "locked up in Thailand" the last 6 weeks,he was in shock as I went into a long rant about the Zimmer frame old people and the Manila Subway story and how I walked up and down the subway at night.

 

Being in Australia he had no idea what a farang was and never been to Thailand 

 

I hadn't even finished telling him about the farang drunks at the mini mart before he excused himself saying he had to go to the toilet ,

 

About 5 minutes later I then noticed his car speeding out of the car park !

 

He hadn't bothered signing me up and I would of refused 

 

He was going to leave me his business card but he left without giving it to me otherwise I would of rang him to finish the story about the farang  drunks at the mini mart at the Nirun condos 

 

Are Unions relevant?

Was you or are you a Union member?

 

 

Understand why he left .. figured you as a lost cause. Thing is, I retired to Chiang Mai 13 years ago so, my experience is dated. Also,  American, so I can only address my experience there but, I have a few moments right now to reflect so … I was raised blue collar, union. Dad was a union welder for the Texaco Oil refinery in S. Jersey. My DNA is heavy working class with only old historical ties to the upper crust.  I do recall a strike, Dad was not pleased but he abided by the union strike. In partial result, my Brother and I grew up in my parents mortgaged home, with car, paid holiday and vacations living a Baby Boomer secure upbringing. My children should be so lucky now that they are grown and independent. I was a career educator, fought for better working conditions/pay in public education in Kentucky (no union membership is not forbidden Ather they “whoodoo” workers declaring they live in a “right to work” state (feel free to guess - Republican state). Teaching undergrad history courses the last 27 years of my working life, I listened to administrators declaring there was no such thing as “academic freedom” and that tenure should end. I will not take off on why these things need protecting but a result led to helping form a union to hold back those attacking. As a result, I was elected to a university level committee and later was elected to the Board of Regents as I was known to defend  the academic faculty best interests. When it came time to be elected to a 2nd three year term, I declined the honor … my head was tired of running into brick walls as the other Regents were from industry with the accepted mindset of controlling their “employees”. Ha! You understand that we were evaluated annually, even with tenure and that salaries reflected the evaluations … and so, my Social Security is lower than the US average and I cannot afford my sustainable working middle class retirement in the US. Compensation … end run, I am very happy retired, along with millions of other Americans in a lower cost country. Yes! I am pro union!

[wwest5829]

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

To the topic ... been on all sides of the 'union' discussion;

... wanting one

... needing one

... for them

... against them

... was hired during a strike (scab), then became the union rep for contract negotiations of a new (abusive) union, which actually contributed to the bankruptcy of same company 

 

They have their place and are a necessary evil at times, along with being a business within themselves. 

 

It's good some states ban mandatory union membership to work at a company.  Freedom of choice is always a good thing.

Except if I decide I should not support, for example, US “defense” spending through my taxes, or public education or … Which is not to say, I disagree with your statement as to the good and bad.

Edited June 12 by wwest5829

[susanlea]

3 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Understand why he left .. figured you as a lost cause. Thing is, I retired to Chiang Mai 13 years ago so, my experience is dated. Also,  American, so I can only address my experience there but, I have a few moments right now to reflect so … I was raised blue collar, union. Dad was a union welder for the Texaco Oil refinery in S. Jersey. My DNA is heavy working class with only old historical ties to the upper crust.  I do recall a strike, Dad was not pleased but he abided by the union strike. In partial result, my Brother and I grew up in my parents mortgaged home, with car, paid holiday and vacations living a Baby Boomer secure upbringing. My children should be so lucky now that they are grown and independent. I was a career educator, fought for better working conditions/pay in public education in Kentucky (no union membership is not forbidden Ather they “whoodoo” workers declaring they live in a “right to work” state (feel free to guess - Republican state). Teaching undergrad history courses the last 27 years of my working life, I listened to administrators declaring there was no such thing as “academic freedom” and that tenure should end. I will not take off on why these things need protecting but a result led to helping form a union to hold back those attacking. As a result, I was elected to a university level committee and later was elected to the Board of Regents as I was known to defend  the academic faculty best interests. When it came time to be elected to a 2nd three year term, I declined the honor … my head was tired of running into brick walls as the other Regents were from industry with the accepted mindset of controlling their “employees”. Ha! You understand that we were evaluated annually, even with tenure and that salaries reflected the evaluations … and so, my Social Security is lower than the US average and I cannot afford my sustainable working middle class retirement in the US. Compensation … end run, I am very happy retired, along with millions of other Americans in a lower cost country. Yes! I am pro union!

Did you give large tips to Thais since you are American and don't like workers to be exploited?

[wwest5829]

7 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Problem with unions is they push for more rights, higher wages to the point employers offshore abroad and now use AI instead, so ultimately unions kill jobs

While I would agree that union demands have a role in corporate decisions … th majority of those decisions a financial driven. How are you going to compete with lower cost countries? Sorry, I am an “outsourced” American retiree.

[scubascuba3]

6 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

While I would agree that union demands have a role in corporate decisions … th majority of those decisions a financial driven. How are you going to compete with lower cost countries? Sorry, I am an “outsourced” American retiree.

It was the constant increase in wages and other costs that lead companies to outsource abroad

[charleskerins]

Yep    Solidarity forever.

[itsari]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Then you'd be wrong, it just requires training and they throw extra staff at it. You'll find China is getting better and better at manufacturing 

China is no longer considered a low cost manufacturing country. 

Yes, China are showing to be an excellent manufacturing country . However any manufacturer from Europe , Japan  or USA will have there technology stolen as has been the case with French, German and Japanese fast train manufacturers over many years. That's just one example

[itsari]

4 hours ago, susanlea said:

You moved from a high priced heavy union country to a low priced non union country to live. If Thailand had the same unions and prices it wouldn't be attractive and you wouldn't move there. So you took advantage of western unions for work to retire to Thailand where workers are exploited. So really you just played the system for your own benefit.

I think most of us retired and living in Thailand fit in your 

Your appraisal of flyguy.

 

 

 

[Mason45]

8 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Plenty of companies get skilled labour abroad at a fraction of the cost, most financial services big companies have offshored offices, often India, Sri Lanka

The biggest problem is the big companies themselves. Even companies where their annual profits are down give their CEO's enormous annual bonuses. So why shouldn't the unionist seek their slice of the action. If going off shore is the answer then companies should be recruiting their senior management from off shore too.

[The Old Bull]

Love them or hate them. If it wasn't for unions everybody would be making $1.50 an hour.  They have done good getting owners to share the wealth their workers generate. Sometimes they get stupid like demanding some construction camps must offer three choices of meat at suppertime and not serve leftovers.

[Prubangboy]

On 6/12/2024 at 5:18 AM, georgegeorgia said:

Zimmer frame old people

 

 

I don't get his bed bug-crazy crusade against Zimmer frames. he mentions them in every third post.

 

He seems to be outraged that disabled people are attempting to walk.

 

Why?

[Prubangboy]

18 hours ago, susanlea said:

Did you give large tips to Thais since you are American and don't like workers to be exploited?

This retard faux-outrage makes literally no sense.

 

Why woudn't a former union worker want unionization and better wages for Thai people? On average, they would.

 

Urging random, abstract, completely hypothetical and made up people to set Thai inequality right by leaving "large tips"? 

 

How likely is an expat to come into contact with truly exploited workers like shrimp farmers or cane cutters?

 

What is it that you're actually mad about here?

 

A retiree enjoying a cheaper than at home Pad Thai?

[susanlea]

14 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

This retard faux-outrage makes literally no sense.

 

Why woudn't a former union worker want unionization and better wages for Thai people? On average, they would.

 

Urging random, abstract, completely hypothetical and made up people to set Thai inequality right by leaving "large tips"? 

 

How likely is an expat to come into contact with truly exploited workers like shrimp farmers or cane cutters?

 

What is it that you're actually mad about here?

 

A retiree enjoying a cheaper than at home Pad Thai?

I'm not mad about anything. Just pointing out the irony of being pro union but then choosing SEA to spend money in. I do wonder if these people tip and complain about dual pricing though. There are upsides and downsides to unions.

[newnative]

    I was a state worker for 30 years and I wish we had had some sort of union to represent state workers.  It wasn't allowed.  For one long stretch for a number of years we did not even get a COLA raise.  I had to take a part-time job to make ends meet.  If you were ranked outstanding on the yearly evaluations, you were supposed to get a bonus.  I was, every year, and never got a bonus, ever--always told, no money for it but thanks for doing a great job.  That long stretch with no COLAs was under a Democrat governor, which I was not happy with, being a Democrat.  Some of the Republican governors were actually better at giving the state workers at least a modest COLA.  

[georgegeorgia]

47 minutes ago, newnative said:

    I was a state worker for 30 years and I wish we had had some sort of union to represent state workers.  It wasn't allowed.  For one long stretch for a number of years we did not even get a COLA raise.  I had to take a part-time job to make ends meet.  If you were ranked outstanding on the yearly evaluations, you were supposed to get a bonus.  I was, every year, and never got a bonus, ever--always told, no money for it but thanks for doing a great job.  That long stretch with no COLAs was under a Democrat governor, which I was not happy with, being a Democrat.  Some of the Republican governors were actually better at giving the state workers at least a modest COLA.  

Understandable , Coca Cola has too much sugar !!  

[Prubangboy]

1 hour ago, susanlea said:

IJust pointing out the irony of being pro union but then choosing SEA to spend money in

This is mad logic:

 

"I was in a union. Therefore, every waking moment and action I ever undertake again must be completely filtered through that lens. And I better tip. A lot. Because I was in a union".

 

You have no argument, you're not even mad at people who were in a union. You just want attention,

[georgegeorgia]

19 hours ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

source????

Does Texas have unions ??

[susanlea]

3 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

This is mad logic:

 

"I was in a union. Therefore, every waking moment and action I ever undertake again must be completely filtered through that lens. And I better tip. A lot. Because I was in a union".

 

You have no argument, you're not even mad at people who were in a union. You just want attention,

Are you sober? Worry about that. 

[Prubangboy]

1 hour ago, susanlea said:

Are you sober? 

This is your rote go-to whenever anyone even mildly questions you.

 

Worry about that.

Edited June 13 by Prubangboy

[susanlea]

3 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

This your rote go-to whenever anyone even mildly questions you.

 

Wory about that.

I don't know what rote or wory means. 

[Prubangboy]

I believe it.

[SAFETY FIRST]

On 6/12/2024 at 5:18 AM, georgegeorgia said:

 

I hadn't even finished telling him about the farang drunks at the mini mart before he excused himself saying he had to go to the toilet

then noticed his car speeding out of the car park !

Crikey, you have an effect on people don't you 😂

 

Edited June 13 by SAFETY FIRST

[Flyguy330]

Here's a great Youtube video for you - one which proves the 'conspiracy theories' about organised Union busting. Yes, it's specifically a US based case, but the strategy is being copied throughout the anglosphere.

 

 

[charleskerins]

On 6/12/2024 at 2:43 PM, scubascuba3 said:

It was the constant increase in wages and other costs that lead companies to outsource abroad

Nope it was the increased desire for profits

[charleskerins]

On 6/13/2024 at 11:28 AM, susanlea said:

I don't know what rote or wory means. 

you're obsessed with saying anyone that disagrees with you is a drinker            projection?

[susanlea]

15 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

you're obsessed with saying anyone that disagrees with you is a drinker            projection?

Sober people can write a sentence and don't rant on with bad language.