animalmagic Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 15 minutes ago, BobBKK said: Wars... The USA loves war - especially proxy wars where others die, and they pick up the paycheck. Ukraine has NOTHING to do with the USA - let Ukraine fight if it wants to. What if Russia supplies money and intel to Mexico is that ok? or Hawaii? or, CUBA, your hypocrisy is mindblowing. For me to be hypocritical would require that I say something in favour of USA and the actions you refer to, which I have not done by the way, but derogatory to Russia. The simple fact that you now choose insults without justification weakens any valid point you may have made. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBKK Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said: It is normal for most states in the world to require basic proficiency in their language before granting citizenship. If you're asking me was it wrong for Ukraine to try and remove Russian as a language, yes it was wrong. Was it correct to make sure Ukrainian is the principal language used in schools, yes it was absolutely correct and is done all over the world. In my country, we accept all faiths and nationalities, but our schools teach English. We don't accept British children growing up and not understanding our language and that is correct for Ukraine & Ukrainian. I agree - I have never suggested using Russian in Ukrainian schools. However, Ukrainian was the minority language, and even Zelensky could not speak it. I was THERE in Kiev and everyone spoke Russian. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 3 minutes ago, BobBKK said: Total deflection by biased media, and you know it. They OWN you hook, line and sinker. https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions In 2014 and 2015, Russian-backed militias used cluster munitions during battles in eastern Ukraine, according to Human Rights Watch investigations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_cluster_munitions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBKK Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 minute ago, animalmagic said: For me to be hypocritical would require that I say something in favour of USA and the actions you refer to, which I have not done by the way, but derogatory to Russia. The simple fact that you now choose insults without justification weakens any valid point you may have made. By omission, you are guilty of bias, and your argument is hypocritical. I am content to admit Russia does many things wrong but what it does NOT DO is have wars all around the world constantly as the US does. I am not a supporter of Putin, despite your claims, but I understand why this has happened. Have a look at Professor Sachs or Professor Mershemier - their videos, so far, are still available. Thank you. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBKK Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said: In 2014 and 2015, Russian-backed militias used cluster munitions during battles in eastern Ukraine, according to Human Rights Watch investigations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_cluster_munitions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine Ya they responded - wouldn't you? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 18 hours ago, jvs said: 27m russian soldiers died fighting Germany?I did not know that,a very high amount. I would never insult the memory of people who stood up and are standing up to defend their country from an invader.I agree! I totally support the Ukrainian men and women who are defending their country against an invader! You see how this works? That IMO does not refer to the number of soldiers that died, and he did not specify soldiers. It refers to the number of Soviet citizens that died, but according to one very informed book I read the figure was closer to 40 million. Barbarrosa by Stewart Binns. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 minute ago, BobBKK said: Ya they responded - wouldn't you? Did they? can you link to that Russian apologist claim? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 3 minutes ago, BobBKK said: Total deflection by biased media, and you know it. They OWN you hook, line and sinker. https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions Nonsense. Both sides are using cluster munitions. I would shut up if I were you and do some research. it's clear you've been hoodwinked by Kremlin propaganda, hardly surprising when it's the only narrative permitted in Russia. While documenting the impact of the attack on the morning of June 12, "law enforcement officers discovered fragments of dangerous (Russian) cluster submunitions," the Kyiv Oblast Police said. Russia attacked Odesa on April 29 with an Iskander missile armed with a cluster munition warhead, killing at least five people and injuring around 30, including children. Police find evidence of Russian cluster munitions in Kyiv Oblast (yahoo.com) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 16 hours ago, animalmagic said: Was Russia not the invader who was humiliated during the period I quoted? Were they welcomed with open arms? Did they leave as liberators and heroes? The conversation is about Russia and your inability to accept any wrongdoing by them but simply quote others wrongdoing to absolve your beloved Russia; Russia seems to be as a big a bully as anyone else you cite. I don't recall that they were "humiliated" at all. They left because Gorbachev took over and made them leave. A political decision. Humiliated is the US shoving helicopters off flight decks to make room for more fleeing as the North Vietnamese broke down the gates to the presidential palace, or leaving millions of $ worth of military equipment as they shambled out of Afghanistan, beaten by a bunch of guys in turbans with AK 47s. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 15 hours ago, connda said: Those whose only outlet on this forum is to call people names and recite Western media talking points like parrots (the same lines over and over and over and over..."Polly wants a cracker Awwwk!") really don't seem to command the intellect to defend their opinions. It just ends up being, "You all are Putin's Puppets - Arrggghhh." Personally I don't care if someone is a complete Western ideologue as long as they can formulate a rational and well-thought out argument and defend it. Debate is good. I love debate. But there are not many on this forum who viscerally hate Russia, China, Iran, and all the other "Axis of Evil" countries whom their governments and media tells them that they must hate - no less explain why - without digressing to ad-hominid name calling, the use of worn-out pejoratives, and reciting GCHQ/BBC talking points verbatim. It would be a breath of fresh-air if any of these people could at least quote their favorite neocons Russian-haters or back their diatribes with passages out of Foreign Affairs magazine or write a well-thought out paragraph explaining their position with original thought and personal analysis. But instead: "Russia is a aggressor nation and Russia needs to be defeated or else they will invade the EU and march right to Portugal. Putin woke up on February 24th 2022 and decided it was a good day to attack the peace-loving, highly moral, Democracy of Ukraine without provocation. The ruble is rubble! Russia has already lost the war! And anyone who disagrees? 'You all are Putin's Puppets - Arrggghhh.'" And Polly wants a cracker. Over and over and over and vero and erov and rove and over and over again.....God it gets old. Come on ideologues - change it up a little. Make it interesting. Show us your latent intellect and surprise the rest of us "Putin's Puppets." Well said, and a gold cup to you too. Just a +1 isn't enough. 🏆 What is somewhat disturbing about it all though is that some of them post on a different war topic subforum with 180 degree posts. I sometimes wonder if I fell down the proverbial rabbit hole and ended up behind the looking glass where what is said on one side is the opposite of what is said on the other side of the glass. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said: Well said, and a gold cup to you too. Just a +1 isn't enough. 🏆 What is somewhat disturbing about it all though is that some of them post on a different war topic subforum with 180 degree posts. I sometimes wonder if I fell down the proverbial rabbit hole and ended up behind the looking glass where what is said on one side is the opposite of what is said on the other side of the glass. Anything on topic or just about other members? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post animalmagic Posted June 19 Popular Post Share Posted June 19 49 minutes ago, BobBKK said: By omission, you are guilty of bias, and your argument is hypocritical. I am content to admit Russia does many things wrong but what it does NOT DO is have wars all around the world constantly as the US does. I am not a supporter of Putin, despite your claims, but I understand why this has happened. Have a look at Professor Sachs or Professor Mershemier - their videos, so far, are still available. Thank you. Russian involvement in foreign wars since 2000 (your preferred cutoff point) - Chechnya, Georgian, Ukraine, Syrian, Central African Republic, Mali, Jihadist insurgency in Burkhina Faso (Total 7) And not forgetting the use of Wagner Group since 2000 - Donbas and Crimea before and after Russian invasion, Belarus, Syria, Sudan, Central African Republic, Libya, Mali, Venezuela, Moldova, Nagorno Karabakh, Serbia (Total 11) US involvement in foreign wars since 2000 - Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, North West Pakistan, Somalia, Anti piracy – Operation Ocean Shield, Libya, Uganda, Niger, Syria, Maritime Security – Operation Prosperity Guardian (Total 11) I am so mortified to be considered biased I thought I'd help out with some facts. Looking forward to your next insult. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 10 hours ago, bobbin said: As I said earlier, we could go on for days. But History is a truth-teller. "It is the victor who writes the history and counts the dead, and to the vanquished in such a struggle there only remains the dull memory of an unnumbered and unwritten sorrow." - Sir William F. Butler, Bio. Charles George Gordon, 1913 "Among the calamities of War may be justly numbered the diminution of the love of truth, by the falsehoods which interest dictates and credulity encourages." - Samuel Jackson, The Idler, 1761 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 5 hours ago, sqwakvfr said: In Between. Not a permanent or eternal state or place. Afterlife according to the Christian faith are two places only. Of course some would argue pergatory as well. There is no eternal place like Hell in Buddhism. Anicca - all dualistic reality is in constant change. As my teacher, a Kammathana forest monk, has said (paraphrased), "We are older than the universe. Our age spans eons (the age of universes). The bodies of our past lives would create a mountain of bones." Nothing is permanent. Not the lives of "gods" nor the purgatories of the lowest hell. Putting this into context in this discussion, this is one of the reasons I'm not shocked by the very real chance that this "great power struggle between nuclear-armed nations" will result in an incinerated Earth. The Hindu Vedic texts allude to such events happening in the past to mankind. Would that be the end of mankind? Nope. Just this iteration of power-mad, hate-fill "leaders" bent on the nuclear destruction of this planet in the name of "saving their sovereign territories." Innocence lives? Unfortunate collateral damage but with karmatic causes. Anyway, slightly off-topic but relevant imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbin Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, connda said: "It is the victor who writes the history and counts the dead, and to the vanquished in such a struggle there only remains the dull memory of an unnumbered and unwritten sorrow." - Sir William F. Butler, Bio. Charles George Gordon, 1913 "Among the calamities of War may be justly numbered the diminution of the love of truth, by the falsehoods which interest dictates and credulity encourages." - Samuel Jackson, The Idler, 1761 If you were only pointing out how every conflict has two sides those might be relevant quotes. My reference was to the study of history by respected academics, with access to multiple sources.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBKK Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said: Nonsense. Both sides are using cluster munitions. I would shut up if I were you and do some research. it's clear you've been hoodwinked by Kremlin propaganda, hardly surprising when it's the only narrative permitted in Russia. While documenting the impact of the attack on the morning of June 12, "law enforcement officers discovered fragments of dangerous (Russian) cluster submunitions," the Kyiv Oblast Police said. Russia attacked Odesa on April 29 with an Iskander missile armed with a cluster munition warhead, killing at least five people and injuring around 30, including children. Police find evidence of Russian cluster munitions in Kyiv Oblast (yahoo.com) They both are - it is disgusting - and we know who first decided to use them, right? have a wild guess (without listening to MSM). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank83628 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 4 hours ago, animalmagic said: Russian involvement in foreign wars since 2000 (your preferred cutoff point) - Chechnya, Georgian, Ukraine, Syrian, Central African Republic, Mali, Jihadist insurgency in Burkhina Faso (Total 7) And not forgetting the use of Wagner Group since 2000 - Donbas and Crimea before and after Russian invasion, Belarus, Syria, Sudan, Central African Republic, Libya, Mali, Venezuela, Moldova, Nagorno Karabakh, Serbia (Total 11) US involvement in foreign wars since 2000 - Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, North West Pakistan, Somalia, Anti piracy – Operation Ocean Shield, Libya, Uganda, Niger, Syria, Maritime Security – Operation Prosperity Guardian (Total 11) I am so mortified to be considered biased I thought I'd help out with some facts. Looking forward to your next insult. maybe you should get a bit more specific with those Russia was ask to help Syria by Assad, US was in the country illegally, and still are occupying 1/3 it, funnily enough, the oil rich region, but the war was all about freeing the Syrian people though💁 why don't the US give the land back and show Putin how it's done, set an example!! 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortean1 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 6 hours ago, animalmagic said: Paying attention to history is deflection?! Why do you, or Russia, get to choose the cut off point? 1979 is within the living memory of many on this forum. Russia is also a bully all over the world, and you know it. Yes, recent history is always acceptable. When the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1979, I worked in the NATO/OTAN communications center in Naples, Italy. At that time it was Allied Forces South, that is, the countries in and near the Mediterranean Sea. Oddly enough as the shift or watch supervisor I was given a list of officers, both U.S. and Allied, who had either an assignment in Afghanistan or were affiliated in other ways. This was highly unusual. I guess the switchboard operators, Italian civilians, did not have security clearances, and were not allowed to make telephone contact. I improvised as I had no transcript to follow. I basically said after identifying myself that a crisis required them to report to Admiral Shear's Command Center. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said: Nonsense. Both sides are using cluster munitions. I would shut up if I were you and do some research. it's clear you've been hoodwinked by Kremlin propaganda, hardly surprising when it's the only narrative permitted in Russia. While documenting the impact of the attack on the morning of June 12, "law enforcement officers discovered fragments of dangerous (Russian) cluster submunitions," the Kyiv Oblast Police said. Russia attacked Odesa on April 29 with an Iskander missile armed with a cluster munition warhead, killing at least five people and injuring around 30, including children. Police find evidence of Russian cluster munitions in Kyiv Oblast (yahoo.com) 51 minutes ago, BobBKK said: They both are - it is disgusting - and we know who first decided to use them, right? have a wild guess (without listening to MSM). It's pointless to speculate who first used them, we can never find the truth. What we need to understand is that neither Russia or Ukraine signed the Convention on Cluster Munitions, nor did the USA who supplies them to Ukraine (in return Ukraine promised to only use them against military targets). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroveHillWanderer Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 47 minutes ago, frank83628 said: maybe you should get a bit more specific with those Russia was ask to help Syria by Assad, US was in the country illegally, and still are occupying 1/3 it, funnily enough, the oil rich region, but the war was all about freeing the Syrian people though💁 why don't the US give the land back and show Putin how it's done, set an example!! The US is occupying 1/3 of Syria? That's a ridiculous claim to make. As the Reuters article below points out: Quote The U.S. has roughly 900 troops in Syria, in small bases like al Omar Oil field and al-Shaddadi mostly in the northeast of the country. Why U.S. troops are in the Middle East Having less than 1,000 troops located in a couple of small bases does not by any stretch of the imagination, equate to occupying 1/3 of the country. And in any event, the situation is not even remotely comparable - the US is not laying claim to Syrian territory, nor are they demanding that Syria become subsumed into the US. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBKK Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 38 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said: It's pointless to speculate who first used them, we can never find the truth. What we need to understand is that neither Russia or Ukraine signed the Convention on Cluster Munitions, nor did the USA who supplies them to Ukraine (in return Ukraine promised to only use them against military targets). Whatever, they are a disgusting escalation by the US, but they have lots of experience killing thousands with cluster bombs in Cambodia, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and NATO dropped 1,400 on Kosovo. Haven't you had enough of all this killing and maiming? What is the common denominator in all those conflicts? No, it isn't Russia! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JBChiangRai Posted June 19 Popular Post Share Posted June 19 3 minutes ago, BobBKK said: Whatever, they are a disgusting escalation by the US, but they have lots of experience killing thousands with cluster bombs in Cambodia, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and NATO dropped 1,400 on Kosovo. Haven't you had enough of all this killing and maiming? What is the common denominator in all those conflicts? No, it isn't Russia! You're assuming this to be an escalation by the US, we don't know that. I don't think you understand the kind of man Putin is, you can't read about it in Russia. He has killed hundreds of Russians as early as 1999. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BobBKK Posted June 19 Popular Post Share Posted June 19 1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said: You're assuming this to be an escalation by the US, we don't know that. I don't think you understand the kind of man Putin is, you can't read about it in Russia. He has killed hundreds of Russians as early as 1999. He is no angel, and I don't doubt he has killed many people - which I abhor. Bush and Blair killed 100,000s in Iraq over fake WMD. Most US Presidents, maybe not all, have killed a thousand times more than Putin. Diplomacy, negotiation and compromise back in 2014 and in early 2022 could have stopped all this suffering. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Just now, BobBKK said: He is no angel, and I don't doubt he has killed many people - which I abhor. Bush and Blair killed 100,000s in Iraq over fake WMD. Most US Presidents, maybe not all, have killed a thousand times more than Putin. Diplomacy, negotiation and compromise back in 2014 and in early 2022 could have stopped all this suffering. The difference is Putin engineered a false flag attack in 1999 and bombed his own civilians in their apartment buildings. Alexander Litvinenko gave full details at his British debriefing when he came for asylum and wrote about it in his book. It's why he was killed. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BobBKK Posted June 19 Popular Post Share Posted June 19 15 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said: The difference is Putin engineered a false flag attack in 1999 and bombed his own civilians in their apartment buildings. Alexander Litvinenko gave full details at his British debriefing when he came for asylum and wrote about it in his book. It's why he was killed. There you go again - believing something just because someone said it. He was a Russian spy and I am sorry he suffered so horribly. Spying is a dangerous game and the fact that he made a claim does not make it true. Some say he was a British spy - I don't know. This has nothing to do with the fact US Presidents kill 100,000s as if it were nothing. Biden has not lost many US troops but, in my opinion, has caused untold deaths in Ukraine - beginning with Nuland in 2014 meddling in Ukraines affairs. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqwakvfr Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 5 hours ago, connda said: Anicca - all dualistic reality is in constant change. As my teacher, a Kammathana forest monk, has said (paraphrased), "We are older than the universe. Our age spans eons (the age of universes). The bodies of our past lives would create a mountain of bones." Nothing is permanent. Not the lives of "gods" nor the purgatories of the lowest hell. Putting this into context in this discussion, this is one of the reasons I'm not shocked by the very real chance that this "great power struggle between nuclear-armed nations" will result in an incinerated Earth. The Hindu Vedic texts allude to such events happening in the past to mankind. Would that be the end of mankind? Nope. Just this iteration of power-mad, hate-fill "leaders" bent on the nuclear destruction of this planet in the name of "saving their sovereign territories." Innocence lives? Unfortunate collateral damage but with karmatic causes. Anyway, slightly off-topic but relevant imho. At least in the years I have left in this life I hope what you said is true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JBChiangRai Posted June 19 Popular Post Share Posted June 19 15 minutes ago, BobBKK said: There you go again - believing something just because someone said it. He was a Russian spy and I am sorry he suffered so horribly. Spying is a dangerous game and the fact that he made a claim does not make it true. Some say he was a British spy - I don't know. This has nothing to do with the fact US Presidents kill 100,000s as if it were nothing. Biden has not lost many US troops but, in my opinion, has caused untold deaths in Ukraine - beginning with Nuland in 2014 meddling in Ukraines affairs. Actually there is a wealth of evidence. In July 1999, Russian journalist Aleksandr Zhilin, writing in the Moskovskaya Pravda, warned that there would be terrorist attacks in Moscow organised by the government. Using a leaked Kremlin document as evidence, he added that the motive would be to undermine the opponents of the Russian President Boris Yeltsin. These included Moscow mayor Yury Luzhkov and former prime minister Yevgeny Primakov. However, this warning was ignored. According to Amy Knight, "even more significant is the fact that a respected and influential Duma deputy, Konstantin Borovoi, was told on September 9, the day of the first Moscow apartment bombing, that there was to be a terrorist attack in the city. His source was an officer of the Russian military intelligence (GRU). Borovoy transmitted this information to FSB officials serving on Yeltsin's Security Council, but he was ignored." Beginning 9th September 1999, a series of explosions hit four apartment blocks in the Russian cities of Buynaksk, Moscow, and Volgodonsk, killing more than 300, injuring more than 1,000, and spreading a wave of fear across the country. The bombings, together with the Invasion of Dagestan, triggered the Second Chechen War. The handling of the crisis by Vladimir Putin, who was prime minister at the time, boosted his popularity greatly and helped him attain the presidency within a few months. A suspicious device resembling those used in the bombings was found and defused in an apartment block in the Russian city of Ryazan on 22 September. On 23 September, Vladimir Putin praised the vigilance of the inhabitants of Ryazan and ordered the air bombing of Grozny, which marked the beginning of the Second Chechen War. Three FSB agents who had planted the devices at Ryazan were arrested by the local police. The next day, FSB director Nikolay Patrushev announced that the incident in Ryazan had been an anti-terror drill and the device found there contained only sugar, and freed the FSB agents involved. The official investigation of the Buynaksk bombing was completed in 2001, while the investigations of the Moscow and Volgodonsk bombings were completed in 2002. Attempts at an independent investigation faced obstruction from the Russian government. State Duma deputy Yuri Shchekochikhin filed two motions for a parliamentary investigation of the events, but the motions were rejected by the State Duma in March 2000. An independent public commission to investigate the bombings was chaired by Duma deputy Sergei Kovalev. The commission was rendered ineffective because of government refusal to respond to its inquiries. Two key members of the Kovalev Commission, Sergei Yushenkov and Yuri Shchekochikhin, have since died in apparent assassinations. The commission's lawyer and investigator Mikhail Trepashkin was arrested and served four years in prison "for revealing state secrets". A number of historians and investigative journalists have instead called the bombings a false flag attack perpetrated by Russian state security services to win public support for a new war in Chechnya and to boost the popularity of Vladimir Putin prior to the upcoming presidential elections. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank83628 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) 6 hours ago, JBChiangRai said: The difference is Putin engineered a false flag attack in 1999 and bombed his own civilians in their apartment buildings. Alexander Litvinenko gave full details at his British debriefing when he came for asylum and wrote about it in his book. It's why he was killed. wrote about it in his book, so it was in the 'fiction' section then. i remember all that happening, back when there were only 4 TV channels...so you could call it unverified propaganda! Edited June 19 by frank83628 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank83628 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said: Actually there is a wealth of evidence. In July 1999, Russian journalist Aleksandr Zhilin, writing in the Moskovskaya Pravda, warned that there would be terrorist attacks in Moscow organised by the government. Using a leaked Kremlin document as evidence, he added that the motive would be to undermine the opponents of the Russian President Boris Yeltsin. These included Moscow mayor Yury Luzhkov and former prime minister Yevgeny Primakov. However, this warning was ignored. According to Amy Knight, "even more significant is the fact that a respected and influential Duma deputy, Konstantin Borovoi, was told on September 9, the day of the first Moscow apartment bombing, that there was to be a terrorist attack in the city. His source was an officer of the Russian military intelligence (GRU). Borovoy transmitted this information to FSB officials serving on Yeltsin's Security Council, but he was ignored." Beginning 9th September 1999, a series of explosions hit four apartment blocks in the Russian cities of Buynaksk, Moscow, and Volgodonsk, killing more than 300, injuring more than 1,000, and spreading a wave of fear across the country. The bombings, together with the Invasion of Dagestan, triggered the Second Chechen War. The handling of the crisis by Vladimir Putin, who was prime minister at the time, boosted his popularity greatly and helped him attain the presidency within a few months. A suspicious device resembling those used in the bombings was found and defused in an apartment block in the Russian city of Ryazan on 22 September. On 23 September, Vladimir Putin praised the vigilance of the inhabitants of Ryazan and ordered the air bombing of Grozny, which marked the beginning of the Second Chechen War. Three FSB agents who had planted the devices at Ryazan were arrested by the local police. The next day, FSB director Nikolay Patrushev announced that the incident in Ryazan had been an anti-terror drill and the device found there contained only sugar, and freed the FSB agents involved. The official investigation of the Buynaksk bombing was completed in 2001, while the investigations of the Moscow and Volgodonsk bombings were completed in 2002. Attempts at an independent investigation faced obstruction from the Russian government. State Duma deputy Yuri Shchekochikhin filed two motions for a parliamentary investigation of the events, but the motions were rejected by the State Duma in March 2000. An independent public commission to investigate the bombings was chaired by Duma deputy Sergei Kovalev. The commission was rendered ineffective because of government refusal to respond to its inquiries. Two key members of the Kovalev Commission, Sergei Yushenkov and Yuri Shchekochikhin, have since died in apparent assassinations. The commission's lawyer and investigator Mikhail Trepashkin was arrested and served four years in prison "for revealing state secrets". A number of historians and investigative journalists have instead called the bombings a false flag attack perpetrated by Russian state security services to win public support for a new war in Chechnya and to boost the popularity of Vladimir Putin prior to the upcoming presidential elections. so you can believe that, but deny the US would do such things. don't you think the CIA, mossad would ever do such things as false flags to gain public support?, only Putin specifically..... because some non Putin supporters said so 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 On 6/18/2024 at 11:58 AM, nobodysfriend said: I think you are seriously mixing up the facts here , tovarishch . Why are you not fighting in the meat grinder for your glorious president ? Why are you not fighting for the other side? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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